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Author Topic: It's not you, it's me.  (Read 35853 times)
Lakov_Sanite
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on: November 06, 2012, 08:33:56 AM

I love wow. I still think it's a fun game but after a couple months of coming back, levelling to 90, grinding reps and seeing all the current content I'm just...done.  I know new stuff is coming down the pipe, I'm psyched to see if Vol'Jin kills garrosh but I just can't justify paying $15 a month for this anymore,  there's just not enough meat on the bones for me.

but....I'll still probably bitch about it on the forums  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Anyone on blackwater raiders want stuff?

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Ironwood
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Reply #1 on: November 06, 2012, 08:34:39 AM

Yeah, I hear you.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Zetor
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Reply #2 on: November 06, 2012, 08:41:41 AM

As much as I've been enjoying MOP (and I think it's the best WOW expansion to date), I'm inclined to agree. I can't find anything terribly *wrong* with the expansion, but I'm just not as rabid about the game in general as I was over the last 8 years or so.

(so is this the 'what went wrong' thread for WOW? Also, insert random circling-the-drain boxing parallel here, WUA-style. why so serious? )

Paelos
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Reply #3 on: November 06, 2012, 08:57:11 AM

I know exactly what's wrong. The top end content is extremely thin, and it's hidden behind a wall of daily chores.

I don't think that will be the same at all by January 1, but they released an expansion with pretty obvious cockblocks. I don't think many people ranked "reputation grinding" at the top of their fun list, but if you hate it, this expansion will drive you insane. And in the next patch they are adding yet another faction.

Another issue is that they made Justice points essentially worthless. Because everything in the daily grind gives Valor, and the heroics give Valor, and all the Valor rewards are epics, and all the Justice rewards are lower level than the Heroic drops, it makes no sense to use Justice at all. It's a weird middle ground that offers no real benefits.

This expansion released with one raid. It said it released with more, but the second raid didn't open until October 30th, and the final "release" raid doesn't open for another week.

If there was a phrase I would attach to the bad of this expansion it would be "artificially gated for no reason."

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Reply #4 on: November 06, 2012, 09:12:27 AM

There's a reason it's artificially gated: Blizzard is literally incapable of producing content at a reasonable pace.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Paelos
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Reply #5 on: November 06, 2012, 09:14:47 AM

There's a reason it's artificially gated: Blizzard is literally incapable of producing content at a reasonable pace.

Ok, "artificially gated for no GOOD reason"

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Reply #6 on: November 06, 2012, 09:21:26 AM

Also if their solution for gearing up for new raids is "Run the previous ones in LFR" or "use justice/valor/whatever to upgrade your ilevel" instead of actually producing new content I'm going to unsub.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #7 on: November 06, 2012, 09:27:46 AM

Also if their solution for gearing up for new raids is "Run the previous ones in LFR" or "use justice/valor/whatever to upgrade your ilevel" instead of actually producing new content I'm going to unsub.

It' worse than that. It's "Run the current raid in LFR, then run the SAME raid, to get the same gear only slightly higher ilvl, then do it again"

I was hoping pet battles would be more fun for me and while I like the actual combat, grinding my pets lvl was just no fun at all.  If you don't want to spend all your time in lower level zones you could try the random pvp pet battles but those only award exp on a win so it ends up feeling like a huge waste of time if you're doing it to level.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Miasma
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Reply #8 on: November 06, 2012, 09:32:34 AM

I log in as little as possible.  I can't put my finger on what's wrong either, if I wasn't in a raid group with people I like I'd have quit by now (even though we have yet to get past even the first raid boss).  The dailies are too much for my OCD I guess.  There is a certain point where getting reputation bars filled is too annoying and tedious to be worth filling up said bars.  I think I will have to wait until they nerf the first tier of normal raiding to have some fun doing that.

I'm also inexplicably annoyed about stuff that doesn't affect me like CRZ and PvP.  My subconscious seems to do this whenever I want to quit a game but don't have enough reason to do so, it will start making me angry about pointless crap until I cave in.  I don't understand why with all the negative CRZ feedback blizzard is sticking with it, their latest post was just their standard "we hear you, we're looking at it but we feel it's fine" nonsense.  I can only imagine they want to pretend it's good because it has an even bigger role in titan.

And with regards to titan I wonder if they will make the same mistake their competitors have by freezing the feature list at the start of development instead of allowing changes based on other games' good ideas.  I really, really want to see cooperative questing while out in the world like in GW2.  The current dailies in WoW make me hate the sight of other people where I'm questing, that's a pretty terrible thing in an MMO.  Every time I saw people in GW2 I was excited because things would go faster and better.
Rendakor
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Reply #9 on: November 06, 2012, 09:35:10 AM

+1

I came back to MoP after a 9 month hiatus, had a blast the first month then just...stopped logging in. I ran the heroics enough to get my ilvl up for LFR (but never got in the few times I tried queuing), got Tillers/Lorewalkers exalted and Klaxxi/Cloud Serpents to Revered, then just decided that sitting in queue for 2 hours while doing dailies wasn't fun gameplay.

Honestly, I probably would have quit Cata sooner but I running a raiding guild so I at least had social ties keeping me in game. All my old guildies either quit or joined other guilds, and none of the raiding guilds on my server play on my schedule (which is the reason I'd started my own in the first place); I was faced with recruiting a whole new guild, server transferring to try to find one, or just not playing WoW anymore.

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Hawkbit
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Reply #10 on: November 06, 2012, 09:43:54 AM

I stalled out somewhere in the 2nd or 3rd zone; the farm zone just bored the hell out of me.  On one hand, it's the most beautifully crafted environment they've done yet.  On the other, it's just damned boring. 

So boring, in fact, that I leveled a panda monk to 61 and hit the wall in Outland.  Then I started a rogue and I'm currently 35 in the old zones, seeing what they did to each zone's story in Cataclysm.  Sadly, the only reason I'm really playing is because my dad plays.  I feel like it connects us a bit across country to play together, but it's just not enough.  He likes it though.
luckton
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Reply #11 on: November 06, 2012, 09:56:49 AM

Query: If you're leaving WoW, where are going?  GW2?  Secret World?  What do they have that WoW doesn't?  Not asking out of spite, but I actually wanna know, cause I'm kinda on the fence too.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

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Ironwood
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Reply #12 on: November 06, 2012, 09:57:25 AM

Good question.  Not sure I'd go TO anything at the moment...

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Reply #13 on: November 06, 2012, 09:58:19 AM

I'd be willing to try Secret World. If TOR's F2P wasn't so fucking clownshoes I'd check that out again.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Zetor
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Reply #14 on: November 06, 2012, 09:59:40 AM

Daily quests are the scourge of MMOs. I'm not sure if they were there earlier than that, but I remember the fanfare when they were added in WOW-BC (skyguard/netherwing/ogri-la stuff). Since then every other diku has decided to ape them (lotro with the trophies, rift with the mathosian/shimmersand dailies, swtor with the entire black hole stuff) and it's been turrrible. Srsly, if you want your players to do daily activities, take a look at GW2 - you can get the daily objectives done if you're levelling an alt, doing events at max-level, or doing pvp (wvw). The key thing is that it happens while you are actually playing the game doing the activities that you'd normally do anyway. But I guess that'd be like double-dipping in the fun jar, and that's a no-no or something.

fake edit: GW2 is definitely a great choice (and I do play it still, though not with the intensity I did during launch or during the Mad King event), especially since there is no monthly sub and therefore no 'commitment'. I am also looking at possibly reactivating swtor for a month or checking out the new Rift expansion. Neither of those games are perfect, but they both offer things that WOW doesn't (a decent story in swtor's case, and more interesting / dynamic pve in rift's case)

Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #15 on: November 06, 2012, 09:59:48 AM

I still have GW2 on my pc but I feel no distinct urge to play it, I just wasn't impressed with it. Personally, I'm just done with sub based games I think, too many alternatives either F2P or single player.  Been playing a bit of LoL the past few days, still enjoy pvp that is balanced which is something you rarely find in mmo's.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Miasma
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Reply #16 on: November 06, 2012, 10:01:30 AM

I've started reading non fiction, it's that desperate a situation.  I would kill for an MMO that combined all the good stuff.  I see nothing on the horizon to have hope for either.
Rokal
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Reply #17 on: November 06, 2012, 01:15:29 PM

I know exactly what's wrong. The top end content is extremely thin, and it's hidden behind a wall of daily chores.

I'd disagree that the 90 content is thin. MoP has a lot of end-game content. Most people will get to 90 with 1 or more entire zones worth of quests left to do. Beyond that you have access to:

-a bunch of new dungeons
-3 new raids (yes they aren't open all at once, but they seem to be opening before most guilds finish the previous zone anyway)
-challenge modes
-pokemon
-7 daily faction hubs
-exploration stuff you missed

Certainly more end-game content than any expansion except for maybe TBC (which was almost exclusively raids/dungeons at 70). The problem is that the staples of end-game content continue to get less interesting to old players every year. The new stuff they tried either hasn't resonated with enough of the community (challenge modes, pokemon) or simply aren't fun (tons of dailies). I imagine a MoP where they invested in more dungeons instead of the daily factions, and people still would not have been happy.

The problem is that Blizzard doesn't know how to make compelling end-game content for non-raiders. It just becomes more obvious as people get tired of the other activities they usually did instead of raiding (alts, achievements, collecting).

The raid content is pretty great so far so I'll be sticking around, but I'd be out the door already if I wasn't in a raiding guild.

Another issue is that they made Justice points essentially worthless. Because everything in the daily grind gives Valor, and the heroics give Valor, and all the Valor rewards are epics, and all the Justice rewards are lower level than the Heroic drops, it makes no sense to use Justice at all. It's a weird middle ground that offers no real benefits.

The best use of JP (for now) is filling out off-spec gear. It'll be nice to have a JP dump in 5.1 via the pet leveling/quality improvement items.
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Reply #18 on: November 06, 2012, 01:21:05 PM

Query: If you're leaving WoW, where are going?  GW2?  Secret World?  What do they have that WoW doesn't?  Not asking out of spite, but I actually wanna know, cause I'm kinda on the fence too.
Tera Online awesome, for real this guy looks legit

No seriously the combat is a nice change of pace and a lot of the monsters are cool. Unfortunately the rest of the game is pretty meh.
Paelos
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Reply #19 on: November 06, 2012, 01:26:52 PM

I'd disagree that the 90 content is thin. MoP has a lot of end-game content.

...

The problem is that Blizzard doesn't know how to make compelling end-game content for non-raiders.

I don't know if there's a point in saying there's lots to do, but most of it isn't fun. Ok...

Would you rather me say it's thin on compelling content? We're splitting hairs at that point. The major issue is that Blizzard didn't provide enough worth doing at the top end. If challenge modes for 5 mans aren't being done by a large part of the population, I guess that shows you how the population feels about "difficult" 5 mans, now doesn't it?

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Rokal
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Reply #20 on: November 06, 2012, 01:36:34 PM

Would you rather me say it's thin on compelling content? We're splitting hairs at that point. The major issue is that Blizzard didn't provide enough worth doing at the top end.

Yes, it does matter. The problem you suggested (not enough end-game content) has an easy solution (make more end-game content). That was the lesson they learned from players at level cap in Cata. The problem that actually exists in MoP (content that exists isn't fun enough) does not have an easy solution.

Everyone can see that the daily quest hubs feel like tedious grinds but it's much harder to determine what content realistically could have been made instead.
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Reply #21 on: November 06, 2012, 06:50:59 PM

I, too, am an MMO burnout-victim. I keep trying new ones that are released, but I never really find any compelling reasons to stick around. I think I'm done with MMOs until one comes out that has more...hmmm...substance? I don't know. It's tricky to define exactly what it is I'm after or what I feel they're lacking.

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Selby
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Reply #22 on: November 06, 2012, 08:08:46 PM

I still enjoy the game and the expansion, but I have zero desire to log in and play regularly.  I'm in the middle of restoring a car so my weekends are pretty much occupied with that while my weeknights are devoted to family time rather than video games as they used to be.
Rendakor
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Reply #23 on: November 06, 2012, 10:23:49 PM

Query: If you're leaving WoW, where are going?  GW2?  Secret World?  What do they have that WoW doesn't?  Not asking out of spite, but I actually wanna know, cause I'm kinda on the fence too.
Having played and dropped everything that's come out lately, I might go back to Rift for their new expansion. The big draw there for me is the deep character system (souls, whatever they call AAs); that's the only thing even on the horizon in the MMO scene that I've got any interest in. Realistically I've just gone back to single player games.

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Hawkbit
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Reply #24 on: November 06, 2012, 11:11:42 PM

I suspect there will be a resurgence of MMO-like games when our generation retires.  That's the next likely time in my life that I will have to commit to them for the amount of time needed. 
Azazel
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Reply #25 on: November 06, 2012, 11:38:01 PM

Query: If you're leaving WoW, where are going?  GW2?  Secret World?  What do they have that WoW doesn't?  Not asking out of spite, but I actually wanna know, cause I'm kinda on the fence too.

I'll be going to SP/MP PC and console games.

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Reply #26 on: November 06, 2012, 11:40:56 PM

The best use of JP (for now) is filling out off-spec gear. It'll be nice to have a JP dump in 5.1 via the pet leveling/quality improvement items.

When you can buy ilvl 450 player-crafted balanced-for-PVE PVP blues pretty cheaply, it takes away the point of JP gear almost completely...

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Miasma
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Reply #27 on: November 07, 2012, 01:50:12 PM

Earnings call happens today, couple hours from now.
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Reply #28 on: November 08, 2012, 09:47:12 AM

Every time I see these threads I wonder to myself if it's really more about DIKU than any particular game.

Yeah, dailies certainly have cons, but across the forums I read I see a lot of "meh" in MMODIKU in general.  It seems like every thread's theme becomes, "not this game, but not really headed anywhere else either."

I'm sure most of the people on these boards have played a DIKU (or at least were exposed to them) in the late '80s or early '90s, so maybe this is the natural progression of the genre:  there's only so much character building and internet chatroom monster killing we can take before we're bored with a game/genre/IP it seems.


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Merusk
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Reply #29 on: November 08, 2012, 10:05:12 AM

Everyone has their tolerances.

Lots also seem to dig in and burn out on DIKUs for some reason.  Take 'em slower they last a lot longer.  I'm still enjoying but I stopped TRYING to grind out dailies and do a list of tasks every day.  When you do this you wind-up burnt pretty quickly.. but our achiever brains really push us towards it.

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Lantyssa
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Reply #30 on: November 08, 2012, 10:53:32 AM

DIKUs are Achiever-crack.  It can hold people for a long time if it's a dominate trait.  The less Achiever they are, the sooner they're going to burn out if that is all that's offered.

Same reason that GW2 is Explorer-crack.  There's all kinds of places and systems for me to explore and it's not all spelled out, as long as I avoid how-to sites.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Paelos
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Reply #31 on: November 08, 2012, 11:05:52 AM

Earnings were up.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
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Trippy
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Reply #32 on: November 08, 2012, 11:07:16 AM

Panda power!
Rokal
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Reply #33 on: November 09, 2012, 04:14:22 PM

Speaking of how popular (or not) challenge modes ended up being, I've seen tons of new entries on leaderboards on my medium pop server in the last 2 weeks. I've started to see pugs forming for it in trade chat too. It seems like after people finished non-raid content that would provide power rewards for their character (daily grinds) they have opened up to doing content that doesn't. It's a pretty promising sign that we may continue to see CM versions of new dungeons going forward.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 04:33:22 PM by Rokal »
AcidCat
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Reply #34 on: November 17, 2012, 10:19:13 PM

a wall of daily chores.

Yeah I've just had it with dailies. It is just a chore, not fun. Before at least I had fun running dungeons and knowing after a while I could turn in some points for some decent gear. Now I know I have to get these reps up to get anything good ... it's just not worth it, really that ennui after doing the endgame gear run too many times has just firmly set in and the expansion is only a couple months old and it already feels like pointless busywork. I really like the aesthetic of the expansion, and the questing to 90 was just fun enough, but meh. No longer have the urge to level any of my alts through this content either.
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