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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Star Wars: The Old Republic  |  Topic: Not so good news about F2P 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Not so good news about F2P  (Read 151780 times)
Amaron
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Reply #140 on: October 29, 2012, 09:37:54 PM

Don't really care about the gambling boxes. Gives me something to dump the free sub coins into, I guess.

It's not the contents of the box that are a problem.  The problem is they are disgustingly profitable.  The suits get wood and stop doing normal content updates.
koro
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Reply #141 on: October 30, 2012, 01:19:40 AM

I also suspect that unless the auction house gets absolutely flooded with duplicate items you don't need (which is entirely possible I suppose, after looking at a video of a guy getting the same pants four or five times in a row in the boxes), the prices of said items are going to hover at about the 3-5 million credit range, which is pretty far out of reach for anybody except people who have a legion of alts that sell shit like augments daily. I know it'd take me four days straight of doing dailies on two of my 50s just to afford one 3 million credit item.
Zetor
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Reply #142 on: October 30, 2012, 01:29:16 AM

Is it all cosmetic stuff, or do the boxes give you p2w gear as well (like the uber-crystals with a level 10 req)?

koro
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Reply #143 on: October 30, 2012, 01:37:13 AM

The pink-purple crystals in there are the kind that only need level 10, but aside from random junk (like 1-2 tier green tier 6 crafting mats of a random type and a couple random xp/social/whatever boosters) there aren't any "pay to win" things.

It's also really petty on Bioware's part that about half the emotes are locked out for F2P and "preferred" players, and you have to obtain them, piecemeal, though random chance in those gamble boxes.
Zetor
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Reply #144 on: October 30, 2012, 01:44:23 AM

Yeah, that's not so bad then... honestly, I am sort of OK with ignoring all fluff / cosmetic stuff (even when it's fairly important like the ability to display titles), so at this point the two things that really make me dislike this f2p model is the weekly WZ/FP restriction (which they seem pretty adamant about keeping in) as well as the hotbar thing, which is just stupid on several different levels.

Also, the fact that I am only getting 150 coins despite being a preorder 'founder' player, and even a single quickbar unlock is 250. Preferred status or not, that doesn't make me feel good about the transition. (though I do appreciate that they are grandfathering credit-bought storage - would it be worthwhile to resub right now and pour all my credits into unlocking those?)


e: also, it looks like it's not "you can run 3 flashpoints a week", it's "you can roll on 3 drops per week" (inc "let's grief the f2p player" stories, in which people deliberately roll on items that are an upgrade for the f2p player so he uses up one of his rolls without winning anything!). I'm not sure if normal (or even hard-) mode FP gear is worth rolling on once you have a full set of commendation gear or even the baseline "scrub pvp" blue gear they gave to all 50s... have they boosted them?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 02:22:49 AM by Zetor »

Nebu
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Reply #145 on: October 30, 2012, 06:46:50 AM

e: also, it looks like it's not "you can run 3 flashpoints a week", it's "you can roll on 3 drops per week" (inc "let's grief the f2p player" stories, in which people deliberately roll on items that are an upgrade for the f2p player so he uses up one of his rolls without winning anything!). I'm not sure if normal (or even hard-) mode FP gear is worth rolling on once you have a full set of commendation gear or even the baseline "scrub pvp" blue gear they gave to all 50s... have they boosted them?

Seems like a way to deter gold sellers.  FP BoE drops sell well.  Limit the drops they get = limits the gold they make.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Zetor
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Reply #146 on: October 30, 2012, 06:50:09 AM

Why would gold sellers farm FPs? I bet 4 goldsellers can make more credits farming / gathering stuff (or even doing daily quests, yech) than 'farming' FPs, and more importantly those activities are at least partially bottable. For individual goldsellers there's the non-trivial risk of getting votekicked in FPs, as well...

e: that is, unless BOE FP items are insanely rare/powerful/sought-after and can drop off trash mobs... is that the case?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 06:52:33 AM by Zetor »

Nebu
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Reply #147 on: October 30, 2012, 06:51:24 AM

Why would gold sellers farm FPs? I bet 4 goldsellers can make more credits farming / gathering stuff (or even doing daily quests, yech) than 'farming' FPs, and more importantly those activities are at least partially bottable. For individual goldsellers there's the non-trivial risk of getting votekicked in FPs, as well...

It was just an 8:30 am idea.  I'M NOT FULLY CAFFEINATED YET!

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Sky
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Reply #148 on: October 30, 2012, 07:38:03 AM

It's sub+cash shop now.  With shitty gambling boxes even.  The worst of both worlds.
My point is, the way they seem to be positioning even the 'preferred' player, it's still a sub game. GW2 is an actual good implementation of f2p. The hybrid models of the post-sub mmos just seem like setups to get you to sub. For GW2, I can be just fine not spending a cent. For TOR, even with 'preferred status', I'd have to drop in some more money and even then there would still be stuff I'd want at the sub level, so I'd want to sub. Which I won't do. I don't get it. Like I said, I'll withhold judgement until the final details shake out, but it certainly isn't doing much to attract me back (as a former big fan of the game before I got screwed with the name thing).

TL;DR: I will not spend another penny on that fucking game, but I wouldn't mind playing it now and again.
(even when it's fairly important like the ability to display titles)
I read that as 'display titties'. Which would be much better!
koro
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Reply #149 on: October 30, 2012, 07:57:42 AM

I wasn't even really aware that there was much of a market for credit-buying in TOR, since I've seen absolutely no advertising for it, and only a single gold spammer mail's managed to reach a character in-game. But from looking around with a quick Google search, I guess somebody is buying credits, if the absolutely absurd prices (about $50 per million credits, which is mind-boggling) are anything to go by.
Amaron
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Reply #150 on: October 30, 2012, 10:48:02 AM

Is it all cosmetic stuff, or do the boxes give you p2w gear as well (like the uber-crystals with a level 10 req)?

Yea it's basically cosmetic.  The super rare stuff in the boxes is all very unique looking in some way.

http://dulfy.net/2012/10/23/swtor-cartel-market-items/#6

I think the mount/light sabers alone will insure the boxes sell like mad.  The odds on these kinds boxes are usually retarded though.  So low they'd be illegal with normal gambling regulation.
Ingmar
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Reply #151 on: October 30, 2012, 11:02:17 AM

They're not gambling in any legal sense, they're not even particularly close. Unless you want to call a pack of baseball cards gambling.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
koro
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Reply #152 on: October 30, 2012, 11:23:55 AM

"Gamble box" is still probably the best term for them though, despite being a bit of a misnomer.
Amaron
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Reply #153 on: October 30, 2012, 11:27:14 AM

They're not gambling in any legal sense, they're not even particularly close. Unless you want to call a pack of baseball cards gambling.

The law seems pretty patchy.  In a lot of states even those dorky gumball machines with toys are regulated.  I'm not sure why cards get a pass.  Maybe because you can buy complete sets.
koro
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Reply #154 on: October 30, 2012, 01:56:59 PM

So apparently if you complete the quest for him on your 50 and then buy the Legacy unlock for it, you can use HK-51 at level 1...


... but all of his gear is level 50, and none of it scales down.
Amaron
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Reply #155 on: October 31, 2012, 01:55:23 AM

That's got to be a bug that will be fixed.
Raguel
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Reply #156 on: October 31, 2012, 11:24:14 AM

Not really sure I want to go through the effort to get a one size fits all companion. Although starting out with a companion may be cool.
ajax34i
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Reply #157 on: October 31, 2012, 06:06:07 PM

That's got to be a bug that will be fixed.

It's listed among the "known issues" for the patch.
Phred
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Reply #158 on: October 31, 2012, 06:25:46 PM

Well, preferreds keep their characters, just have to mark 2 as "active" and the rest will be greyed out.

There's a devblog out that says next patch (1.5) will make changes to the graphics again.  Not shadows, this time it's grass and tree leaves transparency.  To quote, this change also "does not reduce framerate at all" just like the shadows didn't, I'm sure.

On my old computer which was still within minimal spec, (core duo 8400 and ati 5770) turning off grass and trees made a huge difference because they were using 90% cpu so if they move some grass drawing to gpu it should be a perfomance win for most ppl.


Ingmar
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Reply #159 on: November 01, 2012, 08:40:38 PM

On the balance implications of +41 stat crystals:

Quote
So the other bit of discussion to have is about the color crystals. I thought in this case that I would start the discussion with all of you, so that you could understand our logic and guide our thinking.

Currently, these crystals appear in cartel packs with a level 10 requirement, and on the store with a level 35 requirement, in order to access stats roughly equal to a standard level 50 color crystal. It's worth noting that color crystals are something that the itemization team stopped improving the itemization of shortly after launch, because people really hated losing their signature lightsaber color because it was no longer Best in Slot. We have, incidentally, seriously entertained removing all itemization from color crystals entirely (it makes many problems go away for us), but we didn't have the time to make such a large change on itemization before this patch went live.

The reason why we put these in with low level requirement is pretty simple: getting an item you can't use in the Cartel Packs really sucks. It's the same reason we pursued the tech that allowed us to make mounts adaptive - we expect a very large influx of new players when we launch free to play, and those guys opening cartel packs to get items they can't use for months (literally, for casual players!) is a negative experience, not a positive one.

So after discussing with the balance team, we decided to put these in with lower level requirements, with the following reasoning:
The balance math shows the bump to be pretty good at level 10 (not something the balance team was uncomfortable with, though), but pretty unremarkable by the time you hit, say, level 30 or so. Since pretty much open world PvP doesn't happen at those low levels, the impact on open world PvP is pretty much negligable.
The way the math works out, the benefit pretty much washed away by the bolster system in warzones, which means there is no significant advantage there.
The crystals are exactly as good as end-game color crystals, which means they have ZERO impact on endgame activities (level 50 ranked warzones, operations, heroic flashpoints, etc). We're still philosophically avoiding putting any stat advantage at this level that subscribers cannot earn through reasonable normal play.
The fact that these items are fully tradeable means that players who do think there's a balance advantage here can acquire them on the GTN for pure credits without spending a single cartel coin.

The net result of all of this is that slapping one of these color crystals in your saber at level 10 effectively makes levelling from levels 10 up somewhat easier, with the benefits tapering off quickly as the player levels up, and eventually zeroing out altogether. We felt, in general, that that was okay. The focus groups that we ran also seemed to think it was okay, as long as we avoided endgame power.

We are more than open to having a discussion about this and other options here (with the proviso that we have very limited time to make changes before this goes live!) if this continues to be perceived as an issue.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Zetor
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Reply #160 on: November 01, 2012, 10:08:57 PM

The phrase "We're still philosophically avoiding putting any stat advantage at this level that subscribers cannot earn through reasonable normal play." is the only thing that worries me in that, since it definitely shows that they're thinking of this as a sub-game first and the f2p part being a demo/trial/whatever.

So, I assume the f2p conversion is happening in less than a month, right? What benefits would reactivating for the remaining period (as opposed to resubbing for a month like... 3 months from now) get me? Are credit-bought storage containers getting grandfathered in  at the time of the conversion only, or at any time someone goes from subscriber to 'preferred player'?

koro
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Reply #161 on: November 01, 2012, 11:47:37 PM

The grandfathering of storage and character unlocks is grandfathered in anytime, I believe.

As for what you get if you resub now, I believe you get a few cartel coins when the switchover happens (depending on how long you subbed initially before quitting, or if you own the CE), which should be as early as next week if Bioware actually means to keep to their promise of "new content no later than every six weeks."
Sky
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Reply #162 on: November 02, 2012, 06:37:55 AM

I've always thought they should remove stats from crystals, or at least put in a stat transfer mechanism. I used sub-par crystals with my SW because I wanted a red saber, dammit.
koro
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Reply #163 on: November 02, 2012, 07:59:15 AM

There's apparently some talk going on internally about divorcing stats from crystals, but I'm not sure how they'd go about it without either making a new item slot for weapons/offhands as well as a color slot, which would likely require a reworking of the item modification UI.
Ingmar
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Reply #164 on: November 02, 2012, 09:21:35 AM

Eh they could just take all that itemization and move it onto hilts/barrels.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
koro
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Reply #165 on: November 02, 2012, 10:39:17 AM

That would wreak absolute havoc on DPS and healers though. You'd have to create a whole slew of new hilt/barrels to cover all the various crystal types (end/wil/end, end/wil/crit, end/wil/pow, etc.), and what would happen to existing hilts and barrels? Would they just get allocated what Bioware believes is the best stat for that mod type, regardless of what you actually used? I know very few DPS or healers who use +41 crit crystals, yet that's what a lot of main and offhands come slotted with standard. You'd have a lot of people having to scramble to find new barrels and hilts to get the stats they want back, and those tend to be some of the most expensive pieces to buy.
Sky
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Reply #166 on: November 02, 2012, 07:23:53 PM

Just put a device on your ship that can attune stats from any crystal bound to you to any color of a crystal bound to you. Beep boop boop beep boop boop stats you want and color to make you sexy.
koro
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Reply #167 on: November 03, 2012, 12:18:56 AM

Welp, regular maintenance on Tuesday. Guess 1.5's not going to be this week.
Amaron
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Reply #168 on: November 03, 2012, 11:07:15 AM

Welp, regular maintenance on Tuesday. Guess 1.5's not going to be this week.

At least they aren't crazy enough to rush a F2P launch like they are normal patches.
ajax34i
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Reply #169 on: November 03, 2012, 01:18:38 PM

They just pushed 1.4.something last week; wasn't expecting them to do 1.5 soon.
Phred
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Reply #170 on: November 03, 2012, 08:07:07 PM

Seems to me the obvious solution is to make the crystals like heredity items or whatever they're called in wow. Make the crystals level their stats to match your char level. Would only have to be for the crystals from the rmt shop obviously.
koro
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Reply #171 on: November 04, 2012, 02:35:22 AM

I'd imagine that's how they want the things to be, but just... kinda... don't know how.
Ingmar
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Reply #172 on: November 04, 2012, 08:45:39 PM

Finally got around to renaming Bat Country (mumble Sky's fault mumble) so if you want an invite on Ebon Hawk the guild name is now Bot Country, send a tell to Obrax or Yulla.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #173 on: November 05, 2012, 11:07:26 AM

Should've gone with Bät Cøüntry just to befit the circumstances.

But sorry, I didn't plan ahead even before I got upset with the situation.
Ingmar
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Reply #174 on: November 05, 2012, 08:46:05 PM

Welp, regular maintenance on Tuesday. Guess 1.5's not going to be this week.

Maintenance has now been postponed, so who knows what is happening now.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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