BioWare founders retire from gaming

[Outlawedprod]

LOL
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/09/18/ray-muzyka-greg-zeschuk-retire/

[Ingmar]

Not just leaving Bioware, but retiring from game development entirely? QQ.

[Stormwaltz]

BioWare is dead; long live BioWare.

[Outlawedprod]

Not just leaving Bioware, but retiring from game development entirely? QQ.

Well given EA bullshit, swtor bombing, and the Mass Effect 3 ending at least they are alive =p

[DraconianOne]

Interesting turn of phrase from Greg Zeschuk's blog:

I’ve reached an unexpected point in my life where I no longer have the passion that I once did for the company, for the games, and for the challenge of creation.

[Margalis]

I’ve reached an unexpected point in my life where I no longer have the passion that I once did for the company, for the games, and for the challenge of creation.

They sold out to EA, spent tons of time and money making an MMO for no reason other than to make an MMO, and pushed all their non-MMO games towards generic lowest-common-denominator cruft. So it's not exactly surprising.

I suspect they would have been a lot happier had they gone with smaller budgets, accepted potentially smaller audiences, and made more niche titles. You could say this about 99% of game developers probably. Once you reach a certain audience size and budget level the "challenge of creation" is a challenge of budgeting, outsourcing, herding cats, running focus tests, developing large features merely to check boxes, etc - very little of it scratches the itch to create in a truly creative sense.

[Sky]

I suspect they would have been a lot happier had they gone with smaller budgets, accepted potentially smaller audiences, and made more niche titles. You could say this about 99% of game developers probably. Once you reach a certain audience size and budget level the "challenge of creation" is a challenge of budgeting, outsourcing, herding cats, running focus tests, developing large features merely to check boxes, etc - very little of it scratches the itch to create in a truly creative sense.

Unless you read the kickstarter thread where apparently this is a bad thing.

I hope the doctors take a break, see the KS trend and jump in. I'd definitely throw a few bucks their way to see a smaller niche rpg from their new company. Hell, it would be awesome if they got hired over at Obsidian 

[Ingmar]

Presumably they have to wait out a non-compete clause of some kind even if they actually decide they want to work again - which certainly neither of them ever have to do in the wake of the EA sale I'm sure.

[Paelos]

Greg said pretty much the exact same thing Brent Knowles did two years ago. Both of them are too professional to come out and blame EA, but this is absolutely horrible for their PR.

[eldaec]

I suspect they would have been a lot happier

Personally, if I owned a niche developer, who had released a bunch of titles everyone was proud of, then EA came among and offered me a wheelbarrow full of cash, I'd consider that I had won at games development,  and be entirely happy no matter what EA do in future.

[Margalis]

Unless you read the kickstarter thread where apparently this is a bad thing.

Well, KS is a separate discussion. And it's not like would have needed KS had they not sold to EA - Bioware had a good reputation and good sales long before EA entered the picture.

[Venkman]

Personally, if I owned a niche developer, who had released a bunch of titles everyone was proud of, then EA came among and offered me a wheelbarrow full of cash, I'd consider that I had won at games development,  and be entirely happy no matter what EA do in future.

^^^
This. They done good. They deserve a break.

[Trippy]

Ray Muzkya will be getting into "social entrepreneurship" and Greg Zeschuk will be interviewing beer makers for a Web show.

http://news.yahoo.com/biowares-founders-announce-retirement-non-gaming-life-171035127.html

[Riggswolfe]

In other words "We sold Bioware to EA and are rich. Now...CYA!" or maybe "Oh shit, TOR didn't do well, we took retirement over the other options EA gave us."

[Riggswolfe]

Personally, if I owned a niche developer, who had released a bunch of titles everyone was proud of, then EA came among and offered me a wheelbarrow full of cash, I'd consider that I had won at games development,  and be entirely happy no matter what EA do in future.

^^^
This. They done good for themselves. They deserve a break are off to snort cocaine off of hooker's asses and laugh about those left behind.

Fixed it for you.

[HaemishM]

And the slow decline into eventual absorption has begun. 

[Paelos]

And the slow decline into eventual absorption has begun.  

I'm guessing the final straw was them trying to put DA3 on a ridiculous deadline, and when they informed EA that said deadline would not produce a functional product, they were told to shape up or ship out.

So they shipped out.

[MournelitheCalix]

LOL
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/09/18/ray-muzyka-greg-zeschuk-retire/

I wonder if anyone is actually surprised by this.  I know I am not.  I think the last truely Bioware title, was Mass Effect 2.  The rest has been a cut below expectations and some releases were disasterous.  There really isn't any other word for what ME3 was and that was a shame too because everything up to the last mission was in my opinion amazingly done.  Then of course there is DA2 and although I was happy with it, I can certainly understand the point of view of those who thought it was a cut below expectations because it simply was.  I think now more than ever there is a great opportunity for an ambitious startup to take Bioware's title from them.  Hopefully multiple studios try and hopefully we get more RPG companies out of this.

I also hope that we see a focus on returning the RPG to its roots.  Here is to hoping.

[Merusk]

Sounds like the same story as any creative type who's successful to me.   I hear it all the time in Architecture and design and often-enough from engineers who have advanced in to the upper echelons of the company/ profession.

"This isn't what I got into the field for.  I'm bored and unhappy with where I am."   If you move past creative schlub for the pay, (or, in this case sell out for a fortune) you'd better be willing to set aside that creativity.

[Paelos]

It sounds like you're suggesting that creativity can't come from the top, which I think is painting with too broad a brush.

[UnSub]

It can come from the top, but it requires an entirely different skill set. One reason that genius founders of start-ups turn into insane meglomaniacs of companies is that they can't transition their skills from being hands-on everythign in a small company to being hands-off everything in a big company.

For BioWare, I don't think it is entirely fair to blame EA. The Doctors sold out and got a heap of cash to make SWOR, secure in the knowledge they weren't going to run out of funds. If there was anything that killed that project it was having too much money available.

[Merusk]

It sounds like you're suggesting that creativity can't come from the top, which I think is painting with too broad a brush.

No, I'm saying that those who move up the ladder to the top often find themselves out of the creative positions.  They're managing projects, timelines, people, the company itself, doing the paperwork around proposals, and the glad-handing for new clients and funding.  Which isn't all that creative. At least not in the sense that it's what inspired them to enter the industry and create.   The lament I most frequently hear among the management levels is, "I went to Architecture/ Design school, not Business."

[Kail]

Dunno if this is already common knowledge, but it looks like Bioware's taking this opportunity to reveal that it's working on Mass Effect 4, and a new series about which they're saying nothing other than "it exists."

http://blog.bioware.com/2012/09/18/from-aaryn-flynn/

[Sjofn]

It sounds like you're suggesting that creativity can't come from the top, which I think is painting with too broad a brush.

No, I'm saying that those who move up the ladder to the top often find themselves out of the creative positions.  They're managing projects, timelines, people, the company itself, doing the paperwork around proposals, and the glad-handing for new clients and funding.  Which isn't all that creative. At least not in the sense that it's what inspired them to enter the industry and create.   The lament I most frequently hear among the management levels is, "I went to Architecture/ Design school, not Business."

Yeah, it's less that the higher ups can't be creative, it's that they're now in a position where that's not what they're there to do.

[Ingmar]

Neither of the Drs. had been in a 'creative' position for years and years before the EA thing. Like the last thing my quick look through credits found that either of them had anything but a producer credit on, was Baldur's Gate (One). It's all executive producer after that.

[Fabricated]

Developers who started a company out of of a passion for the art decide to take the wheelbarrows of money then realize, "Oh no, we literally sold our souls to the devil!" when the strange horned man they signed the flaming contract with turned out to be spoilers: the fucking devil.

Then being stuck with no way to continue in the industry without compromising their remaining principles, they decide to retire and pursue other hobbies.

I know there's people here that work in the industry but the whole, "well, they got paid, good for them" excuse doesn't particularly fly with me considering it contributes to the decline of the industry and destruction of interesting IP.

[lamaros]

Or maybe it has nothing to do with EA and they just got bored of making games? Scandalous theory... but 20 years in an industry might just be enough, you've only got one life.

[Soln]

They got the door I expect.

[Kageru]

Or they got a bonus for staying with the company for X years after purchase and times up. Now they can go off and work full time on appreciating the immense amount of money they made.

And if they ever want to get into games again they could find the funding to do so.

[schild]

I know there's people here that work in the industry but the whole, "well, they got paid, good for them" excuse doesn't particularly fly with me considering it contributes to the decline of the industry and destruction of interesting IP.

I can count on zero hands the number of times these folks have been relevant in the last decade for me. (Prior to that, man, I fucking loved me some Bioware)

Edit: What I'm saying is, I don't see how this contributes to a damn thing.

[tmp]

Dunno if this is already common knowledge, but it looks like Bioware's taking this opportunity to reveal that it's working on Mass Effect 4, and a new series about which they're saying nothing other than "it exists."

http://blog.bioware.com/2012/09/18/from-aaryn-flynn/

Isn't the "new series" going to be C&C things that EA plans to turn into "platform" and had one of those studios with BioWare label slapped on them to develop?

[UnSub]

Some people are making hay out of the idea that this retirement is almost exactly 5 years after EA took over. I haven't looked at the dates so I can't confirm one way of the other.

In other related signs and portents, EA has turned what was BioWare Ireland into their European customer support centre and it isn't called BioWare anymore.

[rk47]

I know there's people here that work in the industry but the whole, "well, they got paid, good for them" excuse doesn't particularly fly with me considering it contributes to the decline of the industry and destruction of interesting IP.

I can count on zero hands the number of times these folks have been relevant in the last decade for me. (Prior to that, man, I fucking loved me some Bioware)

Edit: What I'm saying is, I don't see how this contributes to a damn thing.

Too true.

Bioware General Manager Aaryn Flynn made a blog-post explaining that BioWare still thrives and prospers.
"Love of games, respect for the players, teamwork and integrity – those are the hallmarks of a culture built by Ray and Greg. It started in their hearts and minds, ran through their daily actions, and resonated deeply in the people that joined them in their remarkable journey. And now with their retirement, the creative teams at BioWare Edmonton & Montreal are ready to carry on that legacy"

 

[eldaec]

5 years or not, this is almost certain to be the end of the period their golden handcuffs expire. It is neither unusual nor surprising for the founders of a company that sells itself will leave at the end of that period. The reason you sell a successful company is to retire, they'd have done so sooner if not for the incentives vesting.

[Tebonas]

What eldaec said. If you give a crap about your company, you don't sell it to EA. Marketing speech about "opportunities and synergy effects" nonwithstanding.