Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN

[Malakili]

Depends on where this goes to court.  In the United States CIG has a snowball's chance in hell of winning.  In the UK they have a better shot.  The Escapist is owned by an American company right?  I don't know how this stuff works.

[Sparky]

This shit is bananas.  I thought EVE knew drama.

[patience]

We should take this as a lesson that any time internet spaceships are involved there will be meltdowns.

[jakonovski]

How would this go to court in the UK when it's about Americans writing about other Americans in American media? I'm sure there's a way, but what would it be?

[lamaros]

Why did this page get so many extra posts...

Oh.

Lol.

[tmp]

How would this go to court in the UK when it's about Americans writing about other Americans in American media? I'm sure there's a way, but what would it be?

They only need to get the revolted colony back in the British fold. Afterwards it's logical the mainland court should decide in such important matter.

[Jeff Kelly]

In Germany for example a company legal department can't represent the company in court. Official legal representation has to come from an external law firm.

The same reason as to why it's usually a bad idea to represent yourself in court even when you are a lawyer yourself.

Regardless of that, acknowledging a rumor piece by a gaming site that no one outside a very limited audience has ever heard of us usually not a great idea. Justifying it by appealing to ethics in game journalism is just the ridiculous cherry on top of a bad PR move.

The Streisand effect will make sure that even more peop,e hear of all of the alleged rumors.

[brellium]

In Germany for example a company legal department can't represent the company in court. Official legal representation has to come from an external law firm.

The same reason as to why it's usually a bad idea to represent yourself in court even when you are a lawyer yourself.

Regardless of that, acknowledging a rumor piece by a gaming site that no one outside a very limited audience has ever heard of us usually not a great idea. Justifying it by appealing to ethics in game journalism is just the ridiculous cherry on top of a bad PR move.

The Streisand effect will make sure that even more peop,e hear of all of the alleged rumors.

Yeah, but the push for legal action is probably coming from their marks fans.

[IainC]

How would this go to court in the UK when it's about Americans writing about other Americans in American media? I'm sure there's a way, but what would it be?

If they can show that UK readers saw the article, then they can ask a British court to take the case. British libel law is famously charitable to the plaintiff so a lot of cases involving foreign parties get heard there.

[Montague]

How would this go to court in the UK when it's about Americans writing about other Americans in American media? I'm sure there's a way, but what would it be?

If they can show that UK readers saw the article, then they can ask a British court to take the case. British libel law is famously charitable to the plaintiff so a lot of cases involving foreign parties get heard there.

Which is non-enforceable in the US:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-10940211



 

[HaemishM]

Dear God, it's like the Good Doctor has not only been summoned but is handing out straight up possessions to force people to be just as fucking retardedly sue-happy as he is. I'm quite sure this was brought on by a little bit of the "you better defend your wife" shit at home, but still... goddamnit. Just let the shit sink to the bottom if there isn't any truth to it. This shit only serves to reinforce the idea that he's a vindictive twat to his employees by making me think he's going to try to find out who the sources are so he can shitcan and/or sue them. He has well and truly gone full retard.

Next module to be announced for Star Citizen: Intergalactic Slander Lawyer, complete with $20,000 ship model The AC-16 Interplanetary Ambulance Chaser.

[Samwise]

Next module to be announced for Star Citizen: Intergalactic Slander Lawyer, complete with $20,000 ship model The AC-16 Interplanetary Ambulance Chaser.

Shut up and take my money.

[MahrinSkel]

I had something to say here, but decided I don't want to get mixed up in this mess.

--Dave

[Jeff Kelly]

Yeah but even in the UK you can't simply say to the court "this whole thing is libelous" and have the court magically agree with you.

You usually have to very specifically argue as to exactly which parts of the thing are actually libelous and more importantly why they are. Also even the UK has actual benchmarks to test whether a certain piece of content is actually libelous and not just simply shoddy reporting. Otherwise the whole UK yellow press - probably the most rabid and morally bankrupt bunch of cunts in the world - would have gone out of business ages ago.

There is no reason to assume any intent by the Escapist to slander CIG and so the Escapist could basically win this just by proving that they have done their due diligence and have done enough to corroborate their story with their sources. Which they apparently can. The best CIG could hope for is for the Escapist being forced to run a counter-statement on their site if they can actually prove that the Escapist has represented or reported parts of the story incorrectly or in a misleading way.

That is if they'd actually be able to file that suit in the UK and make it stick in the US (Good luck with that).

Ironically this would also make CIG itself basically corroborating all parts of the story they can't prove to be false or intentionally misleading. Which would makes this something I'd actually like to see.

[jakonovski]

There seems to be some effort to tie Gamergate into this, because the Escapist and Serek have apparently expressed sympathies in that direction in the past. Guilt by association, or rather people having the conviction that since Gamergate is bad, Chris Roberts must be good and you have to support him. A nice way to get some more money, that.  

[Lucas]

LOL, what a mess; the whole "ID Card" angle is quite interesting, tho, if you are also following the drama on SC subreddit (and the backpedaling and deletion of some twits by the original author of the Escapist article).

Regarding how Roberts is leading the project and such, yeah, I'm sure he is one of those guys that is pretty hard to work it. But...really? How do you say it in english, "news at 11?". But yeah, apparently both him and his wife would make Jeff Bezos tremble on his knees (and by the way, personally I always disliked Sandi Gardiner and I agree she should just go back in the kitchen where she belongs ). I realize, tho, that given the drama and pessimism that surrounds the project, this new stuff  fits just perfectly and provide nice entertainment.

On the other hand, maybe even more interesting and debatable is the "module" (maybe "modular" is wrong in this case) approach they decided to choose when developing the project. There is no doubt that Roberts put himself into a hole, VERY subject to continous scrutiny, because:

- You first allow backers to visualize (some of) their ships into hangars. Ok, so what? ;
- You release a pre-alpha of the flying model through a fictional "game in a game" (arena commander) but of course that's a minimal part of the whole picture ;
- Then you release a very first draft of what is going to be the trading/socializing (but also exploring on foot) part, the so called "social/planetside" module....But yeah, that's it? ;
- Then, eventually, you will release the FPS part, but again, at first, only as another "game in a game" (star marine), although we've seen some potential in the "multiplayer demo" during Gamescom (recovering the Retaliator wreckage) ;
- At CitizenCon, they'll show the Galaxy Map plus what they've dubbed "Baby PU" (which they will also release to backers SOON  ), in which they will implement the various game systems (mining, salvaging etc.).....But again, no "whole picture".

And of course, on the side, the single player game (from what I've heard, during next week's CitizenCon, beside the Cast, they will show some in-game cinematics and maybe a bit of gameplay).

So yeah, because of that approach, no matter what they're going to publish, the inevitable (and legitimate) answer is "ok, but that's only a fraction of what you've promised".

[Malakili]

So yeah, because of that approach, no matter what they're going to publish, the inevitable (and legitimate) answer is "ok, but that's only a fraction of what you've promised".

The problem is "what they've promised" has ballooned to an unreasonable and probably undoable size.  This thing started in scope similar to Elite: Dangerous with more persistent elements and planetside stuff and has since turned into "you can leave your real life behind and live entirely in the world of star citizen, including sim drink-mixing"

[Ginaz]

Just when I thought this couldn't deliver any more than it already has...

[Brolan]

I guess we all knew at some time the wings would get ripped from the plane, this appears to be the time when the first stress fractures occur...

[schild]

I guess we all knew at some time the wings would get ripped from the plane, this appears to be the time when the first stress fractures occur...

Again, 2 years ago. Fuck, it didn't even require foresight to know this thing was gonna blow itself up.

[KallDrexx]

They still have a legion of fanataical fans with real money at stake.

This isn't over for a long time and probably will get quite ugly.

[Ginaz]

I like how they've built up Serek Dmart as this giant boogeyman when in reality he's just a relatively harmless egotistical douche nozzle.  Even better that the Stockholm syndrome infected fanboys have bought it hook, line and sinker.

[rk47]

In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.

Does anybody why this was supposed to be secret?

Because hiring your wife should be a company secret.

[patience]

I like how they've built up Serek Dmart as this giant boogeyman when in reality he's just a relatively harmless egotistical douche nozzle.  Even better that the Stockholm syndrome infected fanboys have bought it hook, line and sinker.

Nah. Being emotionally and financially invested doesn't matter much when it comes to Serek Dmart. He has always been notorious enough for people to hate him since the late 90s. That's the reason Robert's even tried to pin it all on Smart. Derek is publicly regarded as the bad guy so it's easy to rationalize all the hate against Star Citizen as cartoon villainy.

If someone with more positive street cred was attacking Star Citizen, Roberts would be more cautious while defending himself and many backers would question more the state of the game.

[Sir T]

I think Dmart is just a convenient boogyman. its easy to dismiss legitimate concern by just accusing the doubter of siding with Dmart. The escapist however has a reputation in the Gaming industry and its a lot harder to dismiss them as bieng tied to Dmart, because they are not. So we have a full scale panic offensive with them trying to tire The Escapist to Dmart in the sight of their fans.

people have been questioning star citizen long before Dmart came along so there is legitimate reasons for the Escapisty to take an interest.

It's the cry of all ponzi schemes. They collapse because outside people started spreading illegitimate doubt about the product, so it failed. All doubt myst be crushed

[schild]

If someone with more positive street cred was attacking Star Citizen, Roberts would be more cautious while defending himself and many backers would question more the state of the game.

Sounds like I have some work to do. 

[Maledict]

In the response to The Escapist though, Roberts does actually confirm that Sandi Gardiner is his wife. Which is a thing that was hotly denied and apparently a huge secret previously.

Does anybody why this was supposed to be secret?

Because hiring your wife should be a company secret.

The thing is, even in interviews they have lied about it. When his wife was interviewed as part of a "Meet the Developer" series, she talks about having to "pitch" to get her job and being grateful to Chris roberts for giving her a chance.

Her husband. She claims to have made a formal sales pitch. To her husband.

It's so clearly innappropriate and dodgy as hell just from the way they have acted about it!

[Ironwood]

Who here hasn't made their wife give a formal sales pitch ?  Really ?

 

[Jeff Kelly]

I don't get it really. Why did they have to make it such a secret?

I know lots and lots of privately owned businesses from very small to multi-national where the owner has hired his wife (or on a lot of occasions his mistress) and has given her a senior position (usually Marketing or HR). It's so common for the wife or girlfriend to "help out" with the business side of things (or more likely for tax purposes) that this wouldn't even register on a nepotism scale. I guess that the IRS or SEC couldn't even be bothered to pretend they'd care about it since it is so common.

He has already hired a bunch of his relatives (including his brother) and friends and he doesn't run a publicly traded company where he'd have to adhere to some sort of corporate governence code or disclosure rules. Hell even if CIG was a publicly traded company as long as the board of directors agreed there'd be nothing particularly illegal in hiring his own wife and gving her an executive level position.

Going so far as to even pretend they aren't married is beyond fishy. Own it! If somebody complains then tell them that yes you have in fact married a hot ex-model and watch them get red in the face from envy when they realize there's nothing they can do about it about any of it. Channel your inner John Romero and make them your bitch.

Or pretend that your wife is not married to you and make everyone think that there is something more sinister going on than you thinking with your dick and trying your bst to legally evade taxes.

[Falconeer]

Actually, it wasn't a bad idea on their part. She (and them, in general) would have gotten SO MUCH MORE online harassment in the past three years if this were a known fact. Now of course shit hit the fan, but for three years they got to live without all the crap that this would have brought upon them. Some people (mostly men, but not just men) don't mind what's being said on the internet, but not everyone has the same thick skin and to some others that's actually hard to deal with. Even more so considering they have a daughter, I am pretty sure the idea was to keep the family (which as every violent movie teaches) away from the nasty mob becaue the family is vulnerable and makes you vulnerable.

Free to laugh at it, but even with my disgust for Chris Roberts I can see why they thought it would be a better idea to try and keep the notion of them being a family (again, there's a little girl in this too) away from the cesspit that is the internet, and not because of nepotism, but just because so many anonymous humans love to poke at women or to poke at a man by attacking his family. Clearly, it wouldn't have worked in the long term but gave them some breathing room for almost three years, so...

[patience]

Considering how irrational and reactionary many misogynists are I can believe that.

[Amarr HM]

Martin Galway shared this on his FB page - The Excess Of 'Star Citizen'

Not exactly an attack, but definitely some sort of riposte.

[Falconeer]

Right, but they will say that Galway hasn't been a CIG employee for more than a year now so he must be disgruntled too 

[Jeff Kelly]

"attributing the creation of something as complex as a game to one person is reductive and not at all accurate". Which by the way is the whole point of Metal Gear Solid V's narrative arc and narative design. A point that went over the heads of all of MGS's fans and most of the reviewers.

It makes me sad when such an article comes out because the points he's making are so basic and so well known in the field of managing large projects yet so many leaders still don't acknowledge those basic facts.

[jakonovski]

Here's a lawyer sympathetic to Star Citizen:

https://popehat.com/2015/10/04/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-threaten-lawsuits/