SWTOR Goes F2P in the Fall

[Ingmar]

Yeah the smuggler storyline is just  all the way around. I go back and forth between that and JK as my favorite, but there's no doubt smuggler is the funniest.

[Soln]

It also has Corso.  So it balances out.

Wait.  No it doesn't.  I knew something ruined my favorite class.

[angry.bob]

I think its important to realize what end game content really is.  Frankly, when I think of raiding, I impulsively think of WoW 40mans, or even old school EQ stuff, but that isn't raiding anymore and sometimes I forget that.  So when I hear "most people want raiding" my impulsive response is "no they don't"  But frankly, I think that  what most people seem to want is content they can beat, get cool stuff, and feel powerful.  People don't like losing.  For all the fact that Wrath became boring as hell to me when it was just blast through heroics in 20 minutes and farm badges, I believe that was the height of WoW's sub numbers.  People want to feel awesome, even when they aren't, and that made them feel awesome.

Yes, everything you said. I loath raiding, and even grouping with people I don't know IRL. Wrath was perfect in my opinion. There was raids and stuff for people who wanted that, but at the same time there was more stuff for me to do than I could get done in an average playing day. Hell, Wintergraps was just fun regardless of how your team was doing because it was awesome - and always full. Cataclysm was like I giant wet blanket that beat you over the head that unless you were willing to do whatever the fuck they designed it to be, you could eat a bag of dicks. It was like a throwback to EQ1 and The Vision. MoP had better be a casual playland of lolipops and blowjobs for everyone if they ever want to get their subscribers back. especially me. Also, Pandarans a fucking decade too late.

[Sjofn]

It also has Corso.  So it balances out.

Wait.  No it doesn't.  I knew something ruined my favorite class.

Having played a smuggler as both genders (YES I AM BROKEN I KNOW OKAY), the Corso factor as a dude is much, much lower. He's only sort of annoying as a dude smuggler. As a lady smuggler, he is the worst thing in the universe. I am pretty sure if I had just played a dude one from the outset, my white-hot hate for Corso would not have manifested. I just would've thought he was a pathetic dork and ignored him as soon as possible.

[eldaec]

This white hot hate you mention included stringing him along until almost married. The lady dost protest....

[Raguel]

Make your starship your house.  Let you customize it and add lots more space content.  That would be 'Star Warsy' and would differentiate themselves in a fantasy-choked MMO field.

-Smuggling missions for smugglers
-Diplomacy/Intimidation missions for Jedi/Sith
-Ambush/assassination/spying missions for Agents

etc.

I quoted this posted mainly because from reading threads like this over the past decade I felt like I'm not the typical gamer nor is there a game being made for people like me. I really love most of the storylines (especially the agent) I just wish I didn't have to wade through all the other crap to get to it, or that most of the cool stuff is in cinematics and not the game proper, if you understand my meaning. (although I really do love shooting dudes in the face when they mouth off, cinematics or no  )

[Sjofn]

This white hot hate you mention included stringing him along until almost married. The lady dost protest....

Man, I told him no so many times. SO MANY TIMES. I am positive he was this close to locking my smuggler in his love dungeon.

[ghost]

This white hot hate you mention included stringing him along until almost married. The lady dost protest....

Man, I told him no so many times. SO MANY TIMES. I am positive he was this close to locking my smuggler in his love dungeon.

Get a room.   

[Lantyssa]

She would have.  With restraints and everything.

[Sjofn]

seriouslyheissoloathesome

[Azazel]

I think a broad discussion of what went right and wrong with SWTOR would be great. As long as people who comment have actually played the game and we keep in mind that not everyone has the same tastes.

Why? It's possible to have never played the game, be an interested observer and not be a douche. I'm interested in giving it a try out when it goes F2P. It wasn't sold here on release, and after the clusterfuck that was WAR I'm not jumping on any MMO in the first 6 months. From what I've read here, it appears that my concerns were pretty well justified. I almost bought it on sale a few months ago, but worked out I could get it cheaper online, and so held off. Now I see it's going F2P and the levelling experience is the best part, I'm interested in giving it a duoing runthrough, then probably dropping it when I get to the end.

[Paelos]

I think a broad discussion of what went right and wrong with SWTOR would be great. As long as people who comment have actually played the game and we keep in mind that not everyone has the same tastes.

Why? It's possible to have never played the game, be an interested observer and not be a douche.

Not usually. It may be possible, but it usually ends up with people patting themselves on the back about how they were "right" for not buying the game.

[Kail]

As long as people who comment have actually played the game and we keep in mind that not everyone has the same tastes.

Why? It's possible to have never played the game, be an interested observer and not be a douche.

Not usually. It may be possible, but it usually ends up with people patting themselves on the back about how they were "right" for not buying the game.

I dunno, I'm sharing his concern.  The whole "circle the wagons" mentality is rarely good for open discussion.  Trolling is annoying, yeah, but you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  Dissenting opinions are good, and shutting out all feedback from people who haven't dropped money on a game is going to mute a lot of that.

There's plenty of topics related to the game you can discuss without having bought it, and if I'm talking out of my ass about a topic that does require knowledge (like, class balance or something) for a game I haven't played, it should be fairly easy to call me out on it.

It just always gets under my skin when people start looking for ways to dismiss arguments without looking at the argument itself.  If you don't feel like responding to something, then ignore it, but enacting rules about who's allowed to say what about which games seems only a half step away from outright quashing dissent.

[Amaron]

I think a discussion about why people didn't try it would be worthwhile.  As long as nobody acts like those opinions were the reason a bunch of people who did try it quit.

[Rokal]

Why? It's possible to have never played the game, be an interested observer and not be a douche.

Just going to repost this:

Posters criticizing the game fell into three camps:

-People who played the game and wanted to vent about their experiences with the game or what they'd like to see change.
-People who didn't play the game, but wanted to talk about what SWTOR meant for the industry overall.
-People who didn't play the game and wanted to tell us why they decided not to.

Only posters in the third camp were dismissed, and only after repeating their opinion multiple times. There was no conversation to have with those posters after a certain point (if they ever actually wanted to have one). The reasons they decided not to buy the game or why they thought it would fail never changed so the only reason they continued to post in the thread was to have their decision validated by saying "I told you so."

Criticism of the game is fine. Telling everyone why you didn't buy the game is fine too. Periodically dropping by to remind us why you didn't buy the game, and gloat about your decision, is less fine.

[Mosesandstick]

I didn't mean that because you didn't play the game you can't comment. It was more about people commenting on things that would be very hard to know without playing the game.

I'm one of those who has never played the "game". I only beta tested it and I think the journey SWTOR has taken is worth discussing. The problem is that people are going to try and ruin that discussion for whatever reason.

[Ingmar]

One really egregious thing is when people who haven't experienced particular bits of gameplay harp on how the execution of those bits was bad or whatever. The parade of people saying "oh it's just a worse WoW" without having actually played the combat, run a dungeon, experienced the questing flow/style, area design, etc., to know how it compares with/differs from WoW, for example.

If you can somehow manage to avoid being one of those people, by all means contribute.

[Paelos]

There is also a large difference between voicing concerns early about a game and what might be turning you off, versus showing up after the fact and gloating over a corpse.

[Lantyssa]

Alganon?

[Amaron]

The parade of people saying "oh it's just a worse WoW" without having actually played the combat, run a dungeon, experienced the questing flow/style, area design, etc., to know how it compares with/differs from WoW, for example.

Comparing it to WoW is pretty confusing in the first place.  Half the people who want to bash WoW clones haven't played WoW since Vanilla or TBC.  The combat has really changed over the years.   The core parts of the game are drastically altered at this point.

[Kageru]

We should have a committee that can agree on detailed standards of whether you are entitled to have an opinion.

If you see an error of fact and know better you get to be useful and correct it or ignore it if that's :effort:

[UnSub]

There is also a large difference between voicing concerns early about a game and what might be turning you off, versus showing up after the fact and gloating over a corpse.

I thought the above was what we did here - voice early concerns AND gloat over the corpse.

[ghost]

There is also a large difference between voicing concerns early about a game and what might be turning you off, versus showing up after the fact and gloating over a corpse.

I thought the above was what we did here - voice early concerns AND gloat over the corpse.

Is that what it is?  I thought it was just bitching.......   

[Margalis]

Comparing it to WoW is pretty confusing in the first place.  Half the people who want to bash WoW clones haven't played WoW since Vanilla or TBC.  The combat has really changed over the years.   The core parts of the game are drastically altered at this point.

When the developers basically say that mechanically the game is like WoW it's a little hard to avoid that comparison. IIRC they didn't just imply it was like WoW, they actually mentioned WoW specifically, although my memory of that is a bit fuzzy now. The game mechanics were very much pitched as "go with what works in other games" at the least, where "other games" clearly meant WoW.

[Amaron]

When the developers basically say that mechanically the game is like WoW it's a little hard to avoid that comparison. IIRC they didn't just imply it was like WoW, they actually mentioned WoW specifically, although my memory of that is a bit fuzzy now. The game mechanics were very much pitched as "go with what works in other games" at the least, where "other games" clearly meant WoW.

No that's something different than what I meant.  Calling it a WoW clone is fine.  The problem is people who don't even know what WoW is now and haven't played SWTOR either.   They pop up and rag on some flaw Vanilla WoW had like "the combat is too slow!" and nobody really knows which version of WoW's combat they are calling slow in the first place.

[Azazel]

I don't mind cash-shops so long as I don't feel like I'm being ripped off for my fluff or just being used for cheap bux (like EVERYTHING EVER in WoW).

I think WoW's cash shop is brilliant. No advantage or Pay2Win, just purely-optional shineys.

[Merusk]

Exactly.  Nobody *needs* a $25 sparkle pony, but it's there if you really like it and its of value to *you*. 

The purchasable pets aren't even set to dominate in Pokemon.  You can overcome them with the proper pets from in-game finds, so no reason other than pure collection to buy them.

[Mattemeo]

I just think they charge about twice as much as they should because they can. This is a distinction of value, nothing more. Charging nearly two month's subscription for a sparklepony is ludicrous, and they know full well that people will lap it up anyway. I feel responsible for being the curmudgeonly, pennypinching antithesis to that. Fuck your sparklepony, and for $25, you really ought to be able to.

[cmlancas]

I just think they charge about twice as much as they should because they can. This is a distinction of value, nothing more. Charging nearly two month's subscription for a sparklepony is ludicrous, and they know full well that people will lap it up anyway. I feel responsible for being the curmudgeonly, pennypinching antithesis to that. Fuck your sparklepony, and for $25, you really ought to be able to.

I feel obliged to post because I bought a heart of the aspects for my girlfriend for valentine's day (I was saving up for a ring, so sue me).  How does anything purchased through any shop negatively affect you in any way?  It's one of those just don't buy it kind of things, like a goofy collector's edition. 

I for one am usually a sucker for CEs because I like the swag that comes with them.  I still have my EQ2 swag because I thought it was neat.  But, for example, the MoP expansion CE seems a little overpriced, so I'll pass.

Although, I'm sure people would pay $250 for a sparklepony you could fuck in game.  I bet they could fashion so many moneyhats with a fuckable sparkle pony.  Look out redtube, here comes night elf/blood elf sparkleponyporn.

[Merusk]

I just think they charge about twice as much as they should because they can. This is a distinction of value, nothing more.

That's where you should have stopped, because the second half of the statement is the total summation of what it is.  I think they could have sold sparkle ponies at $10 more and still sold nearly the same amount and made much more money.

I've bought nothing because I feel they're all overpriced at more than a buck or two.  Doesn't stop me from dropping $50 on a tank in World of Tanks, though.  The value is subjective to the buyer.  After that it's just economics about price point and customers lost vs revenues gained.

[Mattemeo]

I just think they charge about twice as much as they should because they can. This is a distinction of value, nothing more.

That's where you should have stopped

The rest of it was supposed to be a Hicks style rant but I guess it doesn't come through so much in text.

[Amaron]

How does anything purchased through any shop negatively affect you in any way? 

It does become a problem when a company just suddenly decides to put all of the nice appearance content in the shop.  That's a potential carrot that some people enjoy working for.  WoW is good about avoiding this so the Sparkle Pony actually feels optional.

[ghost]

This may shock you, but the idea behind these MMOs is to make money.   

[Amaron]

This may shock you, but the idea behind these MMOs is to make money.   

Which is why they should keep doing subs instead of shitty F2P.

[Simond]

And if they could make more money with subs then they would be.