SWTOR Goes F2P in the Fall

[Rokal]

My thoughts on SWTOR could always be summed up as "It's a ridiculously expensive, overhyped, underfeatured clone of WoW-from-a-few-expansions-back which is trading on a) the Star Wars name and b) the Bioware name, Bioware concentrated on completely the wrong things during development, and it would be free-to-play within a year".

You've shared this opinion 15-20 times now though. At some point you're no longer contributing to discussion, you're just trolling.

[Phred]

Right, deliberately trying to piss on people's parade is bad.  But many of these games have market wide implications that are very troubling. Where can we talk about that?

I don't know, maybe http://forums.f13.net/index.php?board=15.0?

[Phred]

I was going to add an edit, but I didn't think I had to be that explicit.  

No, it doesn't have to be all sunshine and butterflies, but it's a far cry from the usual crap that falls out of your mouth.  Do you really consider what you do debating? Seriously?  At least sinij was honest with himself.

My thoughts on SWTOR could always be summed up as "It's a ridiculously expensive, overhyped, underfeatured clone of WoW-from-a-few-expansions-back which is trading on a) the Star Wars name and b) the Bioware name, Bioware concentrated on completely the wrong things during development, and it would be free-to-play within a year".

And you kept repeating it over and over again like some rejected girl friend who just can't drop the issue and move the fuck on.

[eldaec]

Bioware didn't concentrate on anything during development, or post launch.

They staggered drunkenly between story content aimed at Sjofn, and bullshit aimed at eq-clone raidtards.

The inability to pick a broad and dance with her doomed the whole thing before anything else could go wrong.

They would still get a few subs months from me each year if they would just cut back on the running and repetition of trash quests. In particular, death to all dailies.

[tazelbain]

Right, deliberately trying to piss on people's parade is bad.  But many of these games have market wide implications that are very troubling. Where can we talk about that?

I don't know, maybe http://forums.f13.net/index.php?board=15.0?

Fuck that, it is  obvious no one gives shit anymore. People just want told their current video infatuation is good and pure not the webcam slut she really is.

[Sjofn]

They staggered drunkenly between story content aimed at Sjofn...

And I totally appreciated it! 

[Phred]

Fuck that, it is  obvious no one gives shit anymore. People just want told their current video infatuation is good and pure not the webcam slut she really is.

Or no one wants to read people's shit posts in threads for fans of the game maybe. Why would you say fuck that about posting in a more appropriate place? Do you somehow have the right to drop your pearls of wisdom whereever you see fit, dispite other people thinking you're shitting up their threads?

What this board really needs is an ignore fuction then people can choose for themselves who they want to listen to and who they consider a waste of time.

[tazelbain]

Because it doesn't start out as treatise about crappy modernization ruining otherwise good games. It starts as "Why is there a subscription fee on what is basically a singleplayer game" in the the one only thread about SWTOR.

And who the fuck said threads are for fans of the games?

[Phred]

Because it doesn't start out as treatise about crappy modernization ruining otherwise good games. It starts as "Why is there a subscription fee on what is basically a singleplayer game" in the the one only thread about SWTOR.

And who the fuck said threads are for fans of the games?

I think it's implied when there's a seperate section devoted to the game. My just be me but I dont see that as a free range for trolls.

[Lantyssa]

Serious question: Are you really saying that you only want people to post nice things about games and you'll den everything else? Because that's what this reads like, which kind of restricts the whole concept of debate.

The normal slightly snarky poster?  Probably not.

You?  Definitely.

[Lakov_Sanite]

SWTOR F2P Thread:What went wrong?

[Sjofn]

lawl

[kildorn]

Honestly, it's a good game, and one of the few games I would actually listen to the story in. They just failed terribly with the intended content deployment schedule. Which was crazy aggressive and probably impossible to do without a giant content team in permanent crunch mode anyways.

[Nevermore]

The biggest failing of SWTOR, in my opinion, was one of project management.

[Hoax]

More annoying than even fanboys are the guys that pontificate endlessly about games they've never played.

Wow I hope this was directed at me because that would be fucking rich.

[Kageru]

I had to actually try and remember why I didn't play this, then I remembered it wasn't sold here.

But yeah, when 200 million bucks of "the next big thing" is smouldering in the ditch it's too much fun not to poke at it and think about why. And the answer to trolls is not biting.

[Amaron]

I'll step in with my faboism to say it's ridiculous to act like the game is some huge burning pile of failure.  Still having more than 500k after they've stopped bleeding subs is amazing.  F2P maintenance mode might kill it but the games basic premise sure didn't.

[Furiously]

I dunno... I had fun running through each planet once. ONCE.

[UnSub]

Because it doesn't start out as treatise about crappy modernization ruining otherwise good games. It starts as "Why is there a subscription fee on what is basically a singleplayer game" in the the one only thread about SWTOR.

I think the answer there is a lot of "because it worked for WoW". But BioWare can't do mechanics as well as Blizzard and spent too much to get there.

[Modern Angel]

some huge burning pile of failure.

In the MMO business, failure and success are relative to your development costs and your running costs. By those metrics, including their own stated goals, this is a failure. Full stop.

On the fanboyism thing, repeating yourself doesn't matter. We weren't bitching about restating the obvious when it was WAR or AoC or SWG or any other game we've John Maddened to death over the past ten years. This was the only game I can recall where people who enjoyed it got all huffy and were all WELL I NEVER WHY ARE YOU REPEATING YOURSELVES WE KNOW YOUR OPINION. The only one I can recall. Now, I don't care if you enjoy the game (I can find a thousand videos of naked men having their balls stomped on right now, proving people like terrible things) but that thing, where even mild criticism was chased off after it reached the in-depth discussion phase, with everyone who expressed displeasure in more than a sentence called trolls? Fuck you, that was as annoyed as I've ever been on these forums, at least when it came to a relevant, just released game.

Now, I'll append that just a bit by saying I get that annoyance once it's been out and fallow for awhile. That's why I pissed off. But it was going on right after release and right before. It was highly annoying and it was only because of Star Wars' hypnotic hold over people.

[Lakov_Sanite]

(I can find a thousand videos of naked men having their balls stomped on right now, proving people like terrible things)

On your C drive?

[Modern Angel]

No, I prefer scat porn.

[Merusk]

Now, I'll append that just a bit by saying I get that annoyance once it's been out and fallow for awhile. That's why I pissed off. But it was going on right after release and right before. It was highly annoying and it was only because of Star Wars' hypnotic hold over people.

No the bulk of it was because of Simon's unproductive and unmitigated anything-replated-to-Bioware-Sucks-and-must-be-shit-on trolling.  Everyone else got slapped with the backlash from that, even if there were cogent posts to discuss.

[Kageru]

I'll step in with my faboism to say it's ridiculous to act like the game is some huge burning pile of failure.  Still having more than 500k after they've stopped bleeding subs is amazing.  F2P maintenance mode might kill it but the games basic premise sure didn't.

I don't know that the bleeding has stopped. You'd have to wait before a bit for the positive effects of the server merge to wear off. That said if they thought there was significant growth potential they'd probably still be holding to the sub model for a bit longer.

That said the game is a failure. With that budget, IP and development house it was meant to be surpassing WoW not limping along at the boundary of being viable less than a year after release. That doesn't mean it is a bad game, especially not in all aspects, but no one in Bioware is getting pats on the back for this outcome.

[Scadente]

I think it was because the game was half-baked.

Sure it looked shiny and all. But the mechanics, systems and gameplay were unresponsive, confusing and downright poorl The thing is; users don't stick around for you storytelling, that bores everyone to tears eventually, no matter if your story is great and you are the best storyteller; it sucks ass the third time around. They stick around for that 30minute cocaine rush or five hour morphine drip. SWTOR provided neither, so why would a user stick around when the guy next door has stuff which is 10 times better? Sure they might have done it before, the effects might be waning, but hey, he's getting a new batch next month!

Really only boils down to a mediocre product chasing the wrong costumer.

Personally I never had my money on this one, and didn't even bother playing past one week. MMOs need a major gameplay and systems change to surpass the pink elephant in the room, not just ape after it and pretend no to see it.

(also the SW IP is so tired that it hardly has any relevance anymore, or you could say it's risen to religion-status YMMV)

[Sjofn]

I love the ONLY CUZ IT'S STAR WARZ stuff. You know who doesn't give a shit about Star Wars? Me.

[Merusk]

Shush, we totally know you have a slave Leia costume you wear on a regular basis.  It's completely your personality.

[Sjofn]

Curses, my secret is out! I bet Ingmar blabbed. 

[Mrbloodworth]

Yes, but I also have a slave Leia costume.

[Evildrider]

Yes, but I also have a slave Leia costume.

On your body type 4 make Twi'lek?

[Amaron]

In the MMO business, failure and success are relative to your development costs and your running costs. By those metrics, including their own stated goals, this is a failure. Full stop.

I agree with your metrics of course but that's really not what I was getting at.  Some people are using the situation to act like: "Look I was right SWTOR failed because <personally disliked design choice>!".  That sort of attitude is pure rubbish vs a game that most PLAYERS are happy with.

EA's super-retarded-budget-dept and stupid expectations are another matter.

[Lantyssa]

Curses, my secret is out! I bet Ingmar blabbed. 

The real heartbreak is that he never sent us the pics.

[Rendakor]

You mean he never sent you the pics...

[Ingmar]

some huge burning pile of failure.

In the MMO business, failure and success are relative to your development costs and your running costs. By those metrics, including their own stated goals, this is a failure. Full stop.

On the fanboyism thing, repeating yourself doesn't matter. We weren't bitching about restating the obvious when it was WAR or AoC or SWG or any other game we've John Maddened to death over the past ten years. This was the only game I can recall where people who enjoyed it got all huffy and were all WELL I NEVER WHY ARE YOU REPEATING YOURSELVES WE KNOW YOUR OPINION. The only one I can recall. Now, I don't care if you enjoy the game (I can find a thousand videos of naked men having their balls stomped on right now, proving people like terrible things) but that thing, where even mild criticism was chased off after it reached the in-depth discussion phase, with everyone who expressed displeasure in more than a sentence called trolls? Fuck you, that was as annoyed as I've ever been on these forums, at least when it came to a relevant, just released game.

Now, I'll append that just a bit by saying I get that annoyance once it's been out and fallow for awhile. That's why I pissed off. But it was going on right after release and right before. It was highly annoying and it was only because of Star Wars' hypnotic hold over people.

Not everyone who expressed displeasure was called a troll, at least not by most of us. The main people singled out to my recollection - rightly - were the ones trying to tell us all the gameplay decisions were terrible, post release, when they hadn't even played the game. I don't recall anyone ever saying Nebu or Falc were trolling, or Soln or Ratman or Tannhauser (my apologies to anyone if I'm misremembering your opinions of the game) or any of the other people who tried the game and decided they didn't like it. Even Rokal, who for whatever reason sets nearly everyone off all the time was never accused of trolling that I noticed.

Plenty of people were *argued* with, but the only people I remember just being dismissed as trolls, were actually trolls, or were just parroting other people's opinions with no experience of their own to go off of, which amounts to the same thing.

Also anyone who trots out that LOLZ ONLY STAR WARS FANS nonsense deserves what they get, IMO.

[Sjofn]

Curses, my secret is out! I bet Ingmar blabbed. 

The real heartbreak is that he never sent us the pics.

It's just as well, people are usually sad to discover that even though my hair is super long, it's still not enough to give me Leia hair.