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Author Topic: Bungie's Destiny  (Read 394005 times)
Fabricated
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Reply #455 on: September 25, 2014, 12:15:03 PM

Nerfed LootCave; game is shit.

Quote
He Who Shall Not Be Named
Long ago during development, the Cryptarch decoded engrams of a given color into gear of that same color. Early in 2014 we added randomness, both for better and worse, to the decrypting process. The result was that end-of-session engram decoding got a lot more exciting and the Cryptarch himself suddenly acquired a personality. Both of these experiences were positive additions to the game.
 
But we didn't adequately communicate the potential random outcomes of decryption. Players see what looks like the familiar metaphor of item identification, while the Cryptarch thinks he's opening a grab bag of loot. Rage sharding of blues ensues. Expect to see changes to address this soon.

Destiny: The Cave
The social experience of a cave farming run is amazing: the herding to get a team of Guardians all behind the line and firing in the right direction, the rush to grab the loot, the scramble when the panic wave starts, the beckoning glow from inside the cave. The speed at which the community organized around this activity was inspiring and humbling to us.
 
But shooting at a black hole for hours on end isn't our dream for how Destiny is played. Our hope is that social engagement in public spaces is only one part of the Destiny experience. Expect changes soon which decrease the efficiency of cave farming and correspondingly increase engram drops from completing activities.
Yes, I'm sure whatever low single-digit percentage changes you make to drop rates and decrypt quality will totally make up for the fact that nothing fucking drops in this game.

The two groups that have completed the raid got literally nothing for their trouble. Like armor shaders...that's it.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Nonentity
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Reply #456 on: September 25, 2014, 12:30:30 PM

The cave was never particularly forthcoming for me, most of my loot has been from doing exotic bounties and buying items from faction vendors or with strange coins.

I've been happily satisfied with what I have so far, without having to rely on the RNG loot drop stuff. Sure, I've gotten like a purple rocket launcher or two, but that's not a make or break.

But that Captain's salami tray was tight, yo. You plump for the roast pork loin, dogg?

[20:42:41] You are halted on the way to the netherworld by a dark spirit, demanding knowledge.
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Reply #457 on: September 25, 2014, 12:32:09 PM

I don't see how the very concept of it would get past the Design Lead or even QA. That someone thought it was a good idea to implement is troubling.
schild
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Reply #458 on: September 25, 2014, 12:39:32 PM

Loot Cave hasn't been nerfed yet.
Trippy
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Reply #459 on: September 25, 2014, 12:54:09 PM

I don't see how the very concept of it would get past the Design Lead or even QA. That someone thought it was a good idea to implement is troubling.
In PvE the world is mostly just your standard MMO-style static spawn areas where the mobs that appear just mill around and respawn if cleared after a certain amount of time (usually a few minutes). To make the world feel a little more dynamic there are spawns that will spawn in one spot and then move to another before milling around at the second spot*. There are also a few places where 2 enemy groups will fight each (for reasons not explained). Some of those places where they fight the spawns will move to first. I.e. the two groups spawn apart from each other and then one or both of the groups will move to a spot and start fighting each other.

Again this is done to make the otherwise boring PvE spawns more dynamic and interesting.

The Loot Cave is an example of this last case. The cave spawns a group of Hive mobs that then move to another spot to fight a group of Fallen mobs. Somebody apparently decided that to keep that area more dynamic (i.e. keep the fighting between the two groups going as much as possible) the Hive group would respawn after a few second delay after they are all killed instead of respawning after a few minutes like a standard static PvE spawn point.

The drop rate per mob isn't actually any better for the cave mobs. It's the "kills per minute" that makes that place so good. There are other places in the game where there are multiple spawns points close by that you can just cycle through non-stop but the efficiency isn't as great as the cave as you have to move around and clearing each group isn't as fast.

Edit: * the AI for the moving groups is actually pretty stupid. The mobs will keep moving to their second location even if they are being attacked. I.e. most of the mob types are programmed to take cover when attacked or they will charge you if melee-oriented, but if they are in "move to location mode" they won't do that and will happily keeping running while being slaughtered until they reach the second point, if they make it that far.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 12:59:59 PM by Trippy »
01101010
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Reply #460 on: September 25, 2014, 12:58:33 PM

Quote
He Who Shall Not Be Named
Long ago during development, the Cryptarch decoded engrams of a given color into gear of that same color. Early in 2014 we added randomness, both for better and worse, to the decrypting process. The result was that end-of-session engram decoding got a lot more exciting and the Cryptarch himself suddenly acquired a personality. Both of these experiences were positive additions to the game.
 
But we didn't adequately communicate the potential random outcomes of decryption. Players see what looks like the familiar metaphor of item identification, while the Cryptarch thinks he's opening a grab bag of loot. Rage sharding of blues ensues. Expect to see changes to address this soon.

This right here is the only thing I actually dislike (read: fucking hate the order of stupidity) about the game. If a purple engram drops, of which I have received 3 in the past 2 days, it should decode to a purple. I don't care if it is not for my class, it should be a purple. Of my three this past day or two, 2 blues, 1 green. Fuck you and fuck that. I think my overall total has been just under 50% purple engrams to purples. Yeah, change it down the road, but it doesn't have any bearing on the purples I have already been shafted out of for better or worse.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
01101010
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Reply #461 on: September 25, 2014, 01:02:23 PM

I don't see how the very concept of it would get past the Design Lead or even QA. That someone thought it was a good idea to implement is troubling.
The drop rate per mob isn't actually any better for the cave mobs. It's the "kills per minute" that makes that place so good. There are other places in the game where there are multiple spawns points close by that you can just cycle through non-stop but the efficiency isn't as great as the cave as you have to move around and clearing each group isn't as fast.

Add in the minor aspect of also completing a couple grimoires while mining for fish in the cave. Kills in Old Russia and all the ranks of hive acolyte kills as well as thralls.

Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
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Reply #462 on: September 25, 2014, 03:42:15 PM

Yes, I'm sure whatever low single-digit percentage changes you make to drop rates and decrypt quality will totally make up for the fact that nothing fucking drops in this game.

The two groups that have completed the raid got literally nothing for their trouble. Like armor shaders...that's it.

Except not. There have been plenty of groups that have done all or even parts of the raid at this point that have gotten some fairly amazing gear.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
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Reply #463 on: September 25, 2014, 04:06:01 PM

we need a destiny loot cave live cam
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Reply #464 on: September 25, 2014, 04:07:48 PM

It can't be on Twitch though, that would be silly.
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Reply #465 on: September 26, 2014, 04:54:22 AM

Two LootCave comics in one day; ironically CAD hasn't really covered the same topic as PA for a long time now despite being a shameless carbon copy earlier on in its poorly-drawn life.





"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
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Reply #466 on: September 26, 2014, 11:52:57 AM

jakonovski
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Reply #467 on: September 26, 2014, 12:02:57 PM

Vidya games swamp poop
schild
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Reply #468 on: September 26, 2014, 12:06:39 PM

jakonovski
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Reply #469 on: September 26, 2014, 02:02:47 PM

God dammit, without a loot cave you had all the time to do productive things, or just fun things, now you're stuck farming a hole. A virtual hole.
tazelbain
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Reply #470 on: September 26, 2014, 02:05:08 PM

Sounds like a $60 version of Cookie Clicker.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 02:16:17 PM by tazelbain »

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Reply #471 on: September 26, 2014, 02:08:04 PM

Without the predictable progression of Cookie Clicker.
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Reply #472 on: September 26, 2014, 02:34:12 PM

God dammit, without a loot cave you had all the time to do productive things, or just fun things, now you're stuck farming a hole. A virtual hole.

Gamers are all about wasting time carefully manipulating visual representations of numbers for a hit of that sweet, sweet dopamine.
Sobelius
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Reply #473 on: September 26, 2014, 02:42:34 PM

God dammit, without a loot cave you had all the time to do productive things, or just fun things, now you're stuck farming a hole. A virtual hole.

Gamers are all about wasting time carefully manipulating visual representations of numbers for a hit of that sweet, sweet dopamine.

This. ^^^

I much rather prefer playing a mind- or twitch-challenging game than literally playing whack-a-hole for loot.

I am becoming increasingly tired of loot-based games. They're ultimately unsatisfying because their reward model is *based on* the idea of not being satisfied with what you have in order to entice you to *go do something* that supposedly promises to improve what you have -- which it does, until the microsecond later when you realize there must still be something better out there -- so off you go to get more loot. The only disincentive is a level requirement on an item which, then entices you to increase your level (or if you've "outleveled" the item entices you to replace it). It is a masterful circle of endless repetition going nowhere until you reach a cap (or content runs out) at which point the true boredom and pointlessness of the whole exercise is revealed.  Hence the apologists response "enjoy the journey", since the end is meaningless. But Destiny forgot to make a fun journey. At least Borderlands 2 amuses us along the way with insane characters and wacky stories.

I've been playing the first Uncharted game (never played it before) this week as well. No loot. No need to level. And I'm enthralled with how entertaining it is, even if I'm kinda turned off by mowing down endless "bad" guys. (I love it when Drake quips "where do these guys keep coming from!?").

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Reply #474 on: September 26, 2014, 04:10:19 PM

Quote
Cryptarch Changes 
Cayde-6 took the Cryptarch aside and showed him a sack of doorknobs. He decoded that mystery pretty quickly.

    Legendary Engrams will always produce Legendary or better quality items, including Materials or Exotics
    Rare Engrams will always produce Rare or better quality items
    Rare engrams will have an increased chance to produce Legendary quality items

Activity Changes

    Daily Heroics, Weekly Heroics, and Vanguard: Tiger Playlist activities will include Rare and Legendary Engrams in addition to their existing rewards
WELL THAT WASN'T SO HARD
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Reply #475 on: September 26, 2014, 07:09:55 PM

FWIW, I got an exotic off a legendary yesterday before the changes, so hey.


Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
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Reply #476 on: September 27, 2014, 12:19:16 AM

Confirmed that Loot Cave 2.0 is soloable. I found it better to stand below the area up the stairs that was shown in the video. Mobs from the cave are less likely to stay behind cover that way. There will be Acolytes above you that will shoot at you but as long as your back is close enough to the wall by the steps leading up they can't hit you and they are too dumb to come down. Word doesn't seem to have gotten around since I spent the entire time by myself.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 11:56:04 AM by Trippy »
Maven
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Reply #477 on: September 27, 2014, 02:05:36 AM

I am extremely disappointed that one of the top-tier developers with one of the top-tier publishers (arguable) let a top-tier title ship with such a top-tier fucking loot exploit like that.

Maybe someone put that in there because they recognized the top-tier shit loot system.

Disclaimer: I have never played this game.

Edit: And before you rush to the defense of a Loot Cave schild, you are an outlier. That is nothing to be ashamed of, and I know you won't be.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 02:08:05 AM by Maven »
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Reply #478 on: September 27, 2014, 02:50:04 AM

As a piece of design, visual static spawns are utter garbage laziness and absolutely stupid. No one actually gives a fuck if dudes pop into existence. That Bungie felt so deeply about enemies coming from a place INTO the world shows how little they understand game design outside of 'make gun feel good shoot stuff."

And they're REALLY good at making those guns feel good when you shoot stuff. Like, the actual best (on consoles - still leagues behind Unreal Tournament, but I digress #pcmasterrace).

The loot cave is stupid and shouldn't exist. Except in Destiny. Where it's absolutely critical. The PvE is an abortion, much like Halo (fuck you). The PVP is everything in this game, and levels effect PVP. That I can sit in front of a cave and get someone to 20 in 6 hours (which I'll be doing Sunday with the 2 other classes) is essential to my enjoyment of the good parts of the game.

Which you need to be max level for.

Because someone forgot to tell them that if you put good twitchy PvP in an MMOG, no one is going to care about the PvE.

Maybe their first mistake was making loot matter. Maybe what the world needs is an arena shooter with every last bit of data any one could ever want. And skins. Lots and lots of skins. Infinite skins. And hairstyles.

... and a pc version.
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Reply #479 on: September 27, 2014, 07:52:14 AM

Wow, that is incredibly sad..and hilarious
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Reply #480 on: September 27, 2014, 09:42:01 AM

Destiny has its positives. Loot Cave, as I saw in one opinion piece on reddit, is a *consequence* of Bungie's design failing on some level if players are converging on it.

I saw the 500 billion figure was the budget over 10 years -- so did they recoup 10 years of investment and have Bungie funded for at least ten years?
Samprimary
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Reply #481 on: September 27, 2014, 12:19:31 PM

Quote
Cryptarch Changes 

Cayde-6 took the Cryptarch aside and showed him a sack of doorknobs. He decoded that mystery pretty quickly.

Legendary Engrams will always produce Legendary or better quality items, including Materials or Exotics
Rare Engrams will always produce Rare or better quality items
Rare engrams will have an increased chance to produce Legendary quality items
Activity Changes

Daily Heroics, Weekly Heroics, and Vanguard: Tiger Playlist activities will include Rare and Legendary Engrams in addition to their existing rewards
Item Changes

Ascendant materials have been promoted to Legendary to closer associate them with the gear they are used to upgrade
Legendary Engram items that exist in your inventory will be demoted to Rare quality when the patch goes live, so decode them while you can. But let’s be honest--even if you don’t, we all know they were blues already...

The bigger news in Destiny this week has been the discovery of a new "loot cave" after Bungie stated that it would tweak the game to eliminate the effectiveness of the previously popular farming spot.

i do love their patch notes, anyway
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Reply #482 on: September 27, 2014, 12:46:02 PM

I get disconnected about twice an hour, makes the game mostly unplayable.  So now I have to diagnose this crap.
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Reply #483 on: September 27, 2014, 12:59:07 PM

The loot cave is stupid and shouldn't exist. Except in Destiny. Where it's absolutely critical. The PvE is an abortion, much like Halo (fuck you). The PVP is everything in this game, and levels effect PVP. That I can sit in front of a cave and get someone to 20 in 6 hours (which I'll be doing Sunday with the 2 other classes) is essential to my enjoyment of the good parts of the game.
Loot Cave 2.0 is difficult to solo at low levels (I just tried at level 7) cause the mobs are level 8 and 9 so it's hard to clear the mobs leaving the cave before they can get into cover. And there's a Knight in the area you'll have to deal with. You'll probably want to bring a friend along to PL you as it still doesn't seem to be a popular spot yet (maybe by Sunday it will be).


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Reply #484 on: September 27, 2014, 05:17:07 PM

In a game about grinding people will find the most efficient way to grind. That's all loot cave is. If it stops being the most efficient way to grind people will just move to the next most efficient way.

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Reply #485 on: September 27, 2014, 06:28:18 PM

In an ideal game, the most efficient way is the most fun way.

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Reply #486 on: September 27, 2014, 07:47:04 PM

I get disconnected about twice an hour, makes the game mostly unplayable.  So now I have to diagnose this crap.

Same mileage a friend of mine gets (he's on Rogers in Canada), but I'm on Comcast in Texas and don't get the disconnects.  We're both on PS3's.  I've had one disconnect -- due to my partner logging in with my PSN account on our other PS3. Game booted me instantly when my system PS3 said it was disconnecting me due to the other login.

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Reply #487 on: September 27, 2014, 07:56:25 PM

You mean.... PS4s, right?
Surlyboi
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Reply #488 on: September 27, 2014, 07:59:09 PM

No. There are filthy last gen players out there too.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
schild
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Reply #489 on: September 27, 2014, 08:03:23 PM

I did not even know Destiny was on the PS3. lol
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