Patch 1.3

[Nevermore]

I'm pretty sure there self healing more then made up for that DR difference, which was the issue.

That would depend entirely on the length of a fight and the amount of incoming damage.  The amount healed is always a static amount while incoming damage is reduced by a percentage.  3 stacked Harnessed Shadows heal is a 3 second channeled 2400 point heal (1600 with the nerf) if you have 20,000 max health.  The setup time for the three stacks is roughly 10 - 12 seconds assuming you can get the two abilities that generate the stacks off every cooldown.  That 10% extra DR of the other tanks only has to make up ~2000 damage absorbed every 10 seconds.  In practice it means that Shadows generally did better vs single targets but worse against multiple targets.  This will just get worse after 1.3.

[Ingmar]

I'd comment but I just don't think we have enough information about the 'real' DR/avoidance differences over time between the 3 tanks in exactly comparable gear.

[Fordel]

The DR bonus applies to Kinetic/Energy/Weapon damage, the Internal/Elemental resistance is equal across the board. The avoidance is equal or greater then the other tanks. The self healing is far and away superior to the other tanks.

The Shadow channel heal you get every 10-12 seconds is equal to one of my Vanguard tank cooldowns that I get every 2 minutes 

[Minvaren]

Meh, I enjoyed that stockstrike on the Trooper actually DID SOMETHING as opposed to on my Agent (Sniper) or Smuggler (Gunslinger). 

[Fordel]

It still will, it's really not THAT huge of a deal to be honest. Losing 15 Crit chance sucks, yea, but it's still going to end up with like 35-40% crit chance total. The new AE changes will more then make up the difference overall.


-edit-

It's apparently also removing the critical bonus damage from stockstirke as well, that's a little more distressing. Probably still a wash overall, but it's going to take a lot of the 'ompfh' out of stockstrike.

[Nevermore]

The DR bonus applies to Kinetic/Energy/Weapon damage, the Internal/Elemental resistance is equal across the board. The avoidance is equal or greater then the other tanks. The self healing is far and away superior to the other tanks.

The Shadow channel heal you get every 10-12 seconds is equal to one of my Vanguard tank cooldowns that I get every 2 minutes 

Because you're taking less damage during that amount of time. 

Kinetic/Energy damage is still by far the most prevalent damage type you run into.  Also, did you know when you have Guard on someone your DR applies to the incoming diverted damage?  You can downplay how much having 15% less DR than the other tanks affects how effectively a tank can, you know, tank but I fully expect them to eventually walk these changes back again.  Oh it won't happen this patch, but by 1.4 or 1.5 you'll see some kind of buff to Kinetic again.

[Ingmar]

Where is that 10% number actually coming from?

[Fordel]

It's 15% now apparently. 

[Ingmar]

Well I assume that is post-nerf, I can follow the dots on that part.

[Lantyssa]

The Shadow channel heal you get every 10-12 seconds is equal to one of my Vanguard tank cooldowns that I get every 2 minutes 

We have neither range nor a leap.  We should get it just for that.  "Sprint is your gap closer" my arse.

[Fordel]

You have a pull, which is far more important for PvE.

[Ingmar]

I would trade my leap for a pull, I think. Not sure. Probably.

[Fordel]

I have both and if I had to drop one for tanking, it would be the charge.



Repositioning the Mob is far more important then repositioning yourself.

[Fordel]

A little info on the new planet and everyone's favorite assassin droid.

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/20634-e3-2012-darth-hater-interview-with-daniel-erickson


TLDR: Prepare to grind if you want a new friend! 

[Nevermore]

It's 15% now apparently. 

Yes, 10% currently plus the extra 5% from the nerf. 

[Evildrider]

A little info on the new planet and everyone's favorite assassin droid.

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/20634-e3-2012-darth-hater-interview-with-daniel-erickson


TLDR: Prepare to grind if you want a new friend! 

Looks like I have a reason to level my Pub now.

[Sjofn]

I have both ...

Which is fucking bullshit, if you ask me. 


Both are useful. I prefer charge, because it's an obvious ATTENTION THE FIGHT HAS STARTED visual, but being able to yank someone to me is pretty important.

[Fordel]

It is pretty awesome, I can't deny!

[Nevermore]

Where is that 10% number actually coming from?

I didn't see that question earlier.  Both Guardians and Vanguards in their tank stance (in at least Columi gear) have over 50% DR.  My Shadow currently has 41.7%, which goes down to 37.9% on the test server and I have the equivalent of Campaign/Black Hole gear.

Edit: for comparison, a healing Commando in the same tier gear as me has 33.2% DR.

[Ingmar]

Well, but that's just DR from armor right? Not counting defense, nor shield/absorb, nor any special mechanics from talents? Seems like it isn't enough of the picture to say anything really.

[Nevermore]

Correct.  I'm not saying a healing Commando can tank as well as a Shadow, but in situations where defense/shield isn't applicable (ie: any Force or Tech ability) a Shadow is a lot closer to a healing Commando than a Guardian/Vanguard.

[Fordel]

Until you factor in cooldowns, then the picture changes again.

[Nevermore]

Cooldown.  Shadows only have one cooldown that has any effect on Force/Tech attacks.  It's a really good one, but it only lasts 5 seconds.

[Fordel]

A mere 5 seconds of immunity every 45 seconds.

[Nevermore]

Clearly that makes up for the 40 seconds of taking significantly more damage than the other tanks.  That's for clarifying that for me.

[Sjofn]

It does when you use said cooldown intelligently to go "lol immunity bitch" to the big wind-up tech/force abilities you might have to face.

[Nevermore]

That's bullshit because the number of fights where you're able to avoid the One Big Hit is miniscule compared to how often you have to deal with having baked-in inferior mitigation.

[Sjofn]

Nothing hits so friggin' hard outside those situations that it matters that much.


EDIT: Basically you're coming across like shadows/assassins were like ... barely acceptable as tanks as it was, and now they're totally going to suck. And that is so not the case at all.

[Nevermore]

Nothing hits so friggin' hard outside those situations that it matters that much.

You know what does?  Groups of elites, which is what you face in Flashpoints/Operations.  And that takes us all the way back to my original comment about not liking the nerf, because it hurts disproportionally in group fights.

[Sjofn]

No, the groups of elites and shit in flashpoints and shit do not hit so hard that it matters. What kills tanks is spikey bullshit gimmicky boss crap, far more than "whelp, bunch of mobs are punching the tank."

[Nevermore]

And yet groups of elites are what I have the most trouble with.  Go figure.

[Sjofn]

This is the case for all the tanks (my assassin and my JK prefer facing One Big Dude to a pack of silvers), but it's still not what kills them. Not in flashpoints. Not if the healer is paying the tiniest shred of attention.

[Falconeer]

Did anyone post the notes for the new patch on PTS? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=463539

Also, character trasnfers finally: http://www.swtor.com/blog/character-transfer-server-populations-and-you

[Fordel]

Yes.

[Amaron]

Also, character trasnfers finally: http://www.swtor.com/blog/character-transfer-server-populations-and-you

Sounds like they are 100% going to do server merges here.  They just don't want to say server merges.   I'll probably re-up for this over the weekend.