Complaints, gripes, kvetches...

[Rokal]

My comment was that Inferno was not just "a harder version of content you already did". It also drastically changes the loot game, which is the main draw of Diablo for (seemingly) most players. If your goal is to collect sets/uniques, Inferno is the only realistic means of finding them. Well, aside from the AH I guess - fun!

The issue is not that people want different things; the thing that makes no sense to me - as someone who doesn't especially want that 4th difficulty - is why other people in my category can't be happy with finishing the 3rd and move on with their lives.

Because the loot experience people were craving from the series wasn't met by the 3rd difficulty. This is pretty easy to understand. Most people don't give a shit if the highest difficulty for Halo or Gears of War is too hard because they got the experience they sought and expected out of the easier difficulties. You can imagine if the highest difficulty of Halo was the only place you could use vehicles or 1/2 the weapons, people would be upset.

But you're missing literally nothing by not playing Inferno.

You miss out on a realistic chance to find useful unique items or any set items period. You also miss out on having Act 1 & 2 available as possible places to farm these items.

[Ingmar]

The fact that there are no sets/uniques on lower difficulty levels has nothing to do with the existence or non-existence of Inferno difficulty. It is a separate design decision (that I would agree was a poor one). They could add a bunch of lower level set items and uniques tomorrow, completely solving that objection, and the vast majority of people whining about Inferno difficulty and build constraints and grind would still be whining.

[Rokal]

They could add a bunch of lower level set items and uniques tomorrow, completely solving that objection, and the vast majority of people whining about Inferno difficulty and build constraints and grind would still be whining.

I disagree. I think if the loot experience people expected (collecting sets, giving cool uniques to alts, finding useful at-level items, etc.) was met with the original 3 difficulties you would have seen much less complaining about Inferno. You can't ignore the first 3 difficulties when talking about why Inferno gets so many complaints.

Iirc didn't a Blizzard dev say that most players never made it to the level cap or far into Hell in Diablo 2? It's because they were satisfied with the difficulty, loot, and length of Normal/Nightmare. Having an extra higher difficulty that they ignored did not break the game for them, just as it doesn't in Halo or Gears of War.

[waffel]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6019511928#17

We recognize that the item hunt is just not enough for a long-term sustainable end-game. There are still tons of people playing every day and week, and playing a lot, but eventually they're going to run out of stuff to do (if they haven't already). Killing enemies and finding items is a lot of fun, and we think we have a lot of the systems surrounding that right, or at least on the right path with a few corrections and tweaks. But honestly Diablo III is not World of Warcraft. We aren't going to be able to pump out tons of new systems and content every couple months. There needs to be something else that keeps people engaged, and we know it's not there right now.

We're working toward 1.0.4, which we're really trying to pack with as many fixes and changes we can to help you guys out (and we'll have a bunch of articles posted with all the details as we get closer), and we're of course working on 1.1 with PvP arenas. I think both those patches will do a lot to give people things to do, and get them excited about playing, but they're not going to be a real end-game solution, at least not what we would expect out of a proper end-game. We have some ideas for progression systems, but honestly it's a huge feature if we want to try to do it right, and not something we could envision being possible until well after 1.1 which it itself still a ways out.

and
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6019511928?page=2#32

Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that.

TL:DR: We thought the item hunt would last for months, people are getting bored, we have nothing in place currently to fix this, PvP is a ways off,  end game content is even further off.

[Ingmar]

Have they decided they don't want to do ladder seasons etc. like with D2?

[Rokal]

I believe they said there would be absolutely no ladder resets in Diablo 3. They'd be in hot-water if they tried to implement one, given the complications the RMAH would introduce.

[Arinon]

The fact that there are no sets/uniques on lower difficulty levels has nothing to do with the existence or non-existence of Inferno difficulty. It is a separate design decision (that I would agree was a poor one). They could add a bunch of lower level set items and uniques tomorrow, completely solving that objection, and the vast majority of people whining about Inferno difficulty and build constraints and grind would still be whining.

I think a better way to illustrate this is if they added an 'Extra Crispy' difficulty above Inferno.  No additional sets or uniques in there, same drops, just harder mobs and champ packs.  People would blow their tops.  A whole fifth of the game is unplayable!

[Job601]

TL:DR: We thought the item hunt would last for months, people are getting bored, we have nothing in place currently to fix this, PvP is a ways off,  end game content is even further off.

The fact that people are getting the items they need to get bored faster than they expected is evidence against the conspiracy theories that the game has been designed around the auction house.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

But you're missing literally nothing by not playing Inferno. Literally. Nothing. It is the same monsters, same areas, mostly even the same loot. This is what I mean by not understanding your point of view. Inferno is not for me, and that is OK.

Well, as someone mentioned, what you are missing is the ability to continually play your character and feel like you are making some sort of progress doing so -- even if it's a sort of very-gradual, laid-back progress.

By having all the farmable-end-game-loot in Inferno, D3 suggests to the player that Inferno should be their characters' final resting/playing space. If Hell was full of level 60 loot and then Inferno was also full of level 60 loot, that would be different -- but instead Hell is full of demonstrably not-even-interesting items for a character who has hit 60 and is in that continued-play end-game zone. Again, you can compare this to D2, where open-ended leveling combined with lots-of-neat-loot starting to drop even in late Nightmare meant that even if your guy was not optimized enough to burn through Act 4/5 Hell nonstop, you could still play the character and get Real Actual End-Game Drops (if less frequently) while also slowly but surely gaining levels that might help you eventually bump your guy up a notch, difficulty-wise.

--

This by the way is not intended as 'your approach to playing this game is wrong', just a bit of support for a mindset that someone else mentioned and which I think is a valid desire of many ARPG players.


ARPGs have very different conditions for 'being done' than CRPGs, and probably even MMOs.

[Abelian75]

The fact that people are getting the items they need to get bored faster than they expected is evidence against the conspiracy theories that the game has been designed around the auction house.

Yeah, I think this was actually a really pleasantly honest thing for them to admit.  Doesn't make the situation suck any less, of course.  I'm guessing there are a large number of people on the team there that hate the AH, frankly.

[Paelos]

The AH isn't the problem. It's the fact they made absolutely no fucking effort to get items out of the economy. I fully expect that by the time I get back into town this weekend, items will have tripled from what I saw.

[Abelian75]

Well, that sorta ties into what I was responding to, though.  It really doesn't seem like the game was designed around the AH.  In a bad way.  Like, in the sense that the game was largely not even designed taking into account the AH.

[Phred]

 I'm not sure where a gamer goes now to get never-ending difficulty short of inventing handicaps or digging up old games meant to be played rather than beaten.  Probably PvP.

The first time I tried PvP was in WoW where I took my hunter to a battleground and had some rogue fight my pet while I stood back and shot him. All the time I was thinking this is the better than any ai all the PvP enthusiasts rave about?

[Soulflame]

PvP won't solve a damn thing.  It'll be the person with the best gear + build with too much CC tromping over everyone else.

There had better not be any nerfs that impact PvE to balance PvP.

[Phred]

They refill when you kill things! It's brilliant! Brilliant I tell you!!!

(and yeah, game is pretty goddamn brown but it's not so bad once you get playing)

The big problem with the game is Act 1 is ugly as hell and no one has the patience to get to Act 2. Shame because Act 2 looks way better than the fugly beach in Act 1.

[Phred]

There had better not be any nerfs that impact PvE to balance PvP.

You know there will be so may as well suck it up in advance :)

[Maledict]

Well, that sorta ties into what I was responding to, though.  It really doesn't seem like the game was designed around the AH.  In a bad way.  Like, in the sense that the game was largely not even designed taking into account the AH.

Completely agree (and think I mentioned it a month or so ago as well). The game hasn't been designed around the AH, it's been designed *without* the AH. Take the game then add into that a means to easily acquire the best gear no matter what you are doing, and the complete lack of any reason to re-roll and the game has a very clear 'end point'. Its almost a case study of 'perfect markets' in action - diablo 3 removes a huge amount of the hoops and hurdles diablo 2 has around trading, and in return gear changes hands much faster and prices better reflect power. Diablo 2 didn't have that - not only was getting the best gear incredibly time consuming and would take ages, but also you could replay characters with different specs. I've played a sorceress to 80+ a few times - a chain lightning build, a meteor build, a frozen orb build etc.

Ultimately as much as I loathe to admit it, the instant respec thing has not helped long term playability either.

[dusematic]

Hit a wall in Act II Inferno.

Got drunk last night, freaked out, and spent over $500 in the RMAH.  Woke up this morning feeling ashamed, called in sick, and started drinking.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Hit a wall in Act II Inferno.

Got drunk last night, freaked out, and spent over $500 in the RMAH.  Woke up this morning feeling ashamed, called in sick, and started drinking.

Never go to Vegas.

[Setanta]

Seriously? I hope that's a troll because $500 on the RMAH? Ouch!

Admittedly I'm cock-blocked on my monk in Act 2 as well - and am sick of soloing Act 1 for gold.

[dusematic]

Seriously? I hope that's a troll because $500 on the RMAH? Ouch!

Admittedly I'm cock-blocked on my monk in Act 2 as well - and am sick of soloing Act 1 for gold.

Yeah, I'm drinking champagne spiked with acai-berry vodka now.

[dusematic]

The sad thing is my gear still sucks and is barely adequate for Act 2 Inferno.  Partly due to the fact that I was drunk and made poor impulse buys, and partly due to the fact that all the really good items typically sell for USD $250 apiece.

[dusematic]

Also, I just realized I have several bids pending on items.  I'm hoping someone outbids me but we'll know soon enough.  That will slide the final expenditure closer to a thousand dollars than I'd like.

[dusematic]

On a more positive note, I am now the proud owner of 4 legendary items.

[Malakili]

On a more positive note, I am now the proud owner of 4 legendary items.

Are they at least good legendary items?

[Miasma]

Wow.  You could try and re-sell it to recoup some of that I guess, if you have paypal set up.  Most legendaries kinda suck, unless you're a DH and are getting that green set.

You will also need a new avatar, Katie and Tom broke up because she didn't want her kid on some insane floating Scientologist school where you have to pledge yourself to them for literally one billion years.

[dusematic]

Katie and Tom broke up

Still reeling from the news.

[dusematic]

On a more positive note, I am now the proud owner of 4 legendary items.

Are they at least good legendary items?

I don't know.  I got a stormshield, justice lantern, helm of command, and empyrean messenger, plus a bunch of other shit.

[dusematic]

New jack reacher trailer is out.  Whooooooooooo!

[Abelian75]

Hit a wall in Act II Inferno.

Got drunk last night, freaked out, and spent over $500 in the RMAH.  Woke up this morning feeling ashamed, called in sick, and started drinking.

Oh god!  This hurts to read!

[dusematic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrzS_LEodRY

[Fabricated]

Hit a wall in Act II Inferno.

Got drunk last night, freaked out, and spent over $500 in the RMAH.  Woke up this morning feeling ashamed, called in sick, and started drinking.

What in the hairy fuck is wrong with you stop playing this game.

[01101010]

Hit a wall in Act II Inferno.

Got drunk last night, freaked out, and spent over $500 in the RMAH.  Woke up this morning feeling ashamed, called in sick, and started drinking.

What in the hairy fuck is wrong with you stop playing this game.

Shush you. I want to continue to watch this unravel. 

[Lakov_Sanite]

Hit a wall in Act II Inferno.

Got drunk last night, freaked out, and spent over $500 in the RMAH.  Woke up this morning feeling ashamed, called in sick, and started drinking.

What in the hairy fuck is wrong with you stop playing this game.

Shush you. I want to continue to watch this unravel. 

"will suck dick for legendaries"  Is where it's gonna end.

[LK]

That must've been some freak out?