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f13.net General Forums => Diablo 3 => Topic started by: MuffinMan on May 19, 2012, 09:30:36 AM



Title: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on May 19, 2012, 09:30:36 AM
I think it bodes well that a complaint thread has not been made yet. Outside of the biggest one of losing progress jumping in and out games I really don't have many. One issue that jumps out at me is looking at your gear in the auction house. I get that I can't auction damaged items but it sucks that you can't even see the detailed description if it's damaged. Sometimes I just want to look at my gear to see if it's something I want to upgrade.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 19, 2012, 09:46:53 AM
To be honest, the game isn't grabbing me like D2 did. It's probably just an age thing, but I couldn't be bothered to play it until like 9:00-10:00 PM last night even though I got home at 6. I played for an hour, then decided I'd rather just sleep in than continue playing.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 19, 2012, 09:48:47 AM
You can't buy pots on the AH. There's simply no way to.  They don't drop often enough for me to bother farming them so I'm stuck on Diablo because my class has a hard time on him and I'm potionless now.   Whee.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: K9 on May 19, 2012, 09:58:38 AM
You can buy potions from vendors in the Keep.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 19, 2012, 10:12:10 AM
Well shit.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 19, 2012, 10:15:00 AM
I think there are a few npcs that sell potions, but you could always manually change your quest to something earlier and farm some potions. Alternatively, join someone elses game so your current progress in your quest isn't reset and do the same.

My complaint is also about the AH. It ruins a lot of the fun of finding new gear or crafting something cool. I can either spend 8k gold and a bunch of materials trying 4 times to create a decent chest piece, or I can just go to the AH and buy something way better than anything I could ever make for 2k gold.

Since bosses drop items that are 6-8 levels below what you actually are by the time you get to them, that means that (for example) buying a level 28 weapon before the boss of act 3 via the AH means that you are actually buying items that dropped at the end of act 4. The fact that items are not soul-bound and you can just resell what you bought out of the AH after you out-level it ensures that prices probably won't ever go down. There will only be more copies of each item in the market place as time goes on.

The prices are completely out of sync with the normal game economy. An amazing rare hat in the AH costs less than a shitty blue hat 10 levels lower from an NPC. It actually costs more money to turn 9 chipped rubies into a normal ruby than it costs to just buy a normal ruby on the AH. I'm used to games rewarding you for taking the gameplay route rather than the AH shortcut, but Diablo 3 is not one of those games.

I try to ignore the AH so drops I find might actually be useful (rather than being 8 levels behind what I could find on the AH and with inferior stats), but the AH situation makes me feel like I'm throwing money away when I craft. The 8k gold for 4 bad chest pieces actually happened last night. I also spent ~4k to turn 9 chipped rubies into a regular ruby, when I could have bought 4 rubies for that price if I'd just used the AH.

It's a pretty big oversight on Blizzard's part that is at least partially due to the beta having such a small amount of content. They could have implemented a few easy fixes before the game launched. Bosses should drop more level-appropriate loot so that what you get through gameplay might actually rival what you can buy in the AH. Auctions should have a minimum bid and minimum buyout price that is more in sync with prices seen in the game. I can't ignore the thought that this under-cooked feature was kept in the game because it was going to be a persistent revenue source for Blizzard.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 19, 2012, 10:24:40 AM
It's a solid game, but I'm not as in love with it as I was with D2 and D1.

It's a very post-WoW Diablo. I didn't like that aspect of the Butcher fight. D1 you let the Butcher loose and good luck, motherfucker! Butcher2 is all scripted and stolid. Don't stand in the fire!  :oh_i_see:

I'm finding picking up gold and items to be too fiddly. I often pick up stuff next to each other that I didn't want. Like a blue in a bunch of greys and I wind up picking up the greys when I click on the blue.

Story... there's too much story! The lore pickups are kind of cool, but everyone has some fucking thing to say, and the angels plot is overwought. D1 was just right, and D2 was acceptable, but D3 seems afraid to let go of story and stand on it's gameplay.

So, that's my impressions after completing Act 1.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Numtini on May 19, 2012, 10:27:25 AM
I'm loving it and I wasn't a big D1/2 fan. But I Agree completely about the AH. The economy is a disaster and it's taking a lot of fun out of the game.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: K9 on May 19, 2012, 10:29:05 AM
Well shit.  :awesome_for_real:

 :grin:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Aez on May 19, 2012, 10:51:03 AM
The gem system is weird.  I don't understand the drop rate.  I haven't got any at lvl 16 but I can buy a flawless on for only 3k in the hardcore AH?  Ruby are incredibly strong at low lvl, it doubles your DPS and makes any non-slotted weapon useless.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hawkbit on May 19, 2012, 11:00:53 AM
No real major complaints about the game so far, other than a bit of rubberbanding occasionally.  My big gripe is the AH sorting, which needs work.  With the sheer amount of merchandise on the AH, there's simply not enough ways to hone down useful gear for myself.  A bid/buyout range would be very helpful.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 19, 2012, 11:03:20 AM
The gem system is weird.  I don't understand the drop rate.  I haven't got any at lvl 16 but I can buy a flawless on for only 3k in the hardcore AH?  Ruby are incredibly strong at low lvl, it doubles your DPS and makes any non-slotted weapon useless.

You'll start seeing gems drop in Act 2. Flawless are (iirc) drops from Act 1 nightmare, so it's pretty asinine that you can buy them for 3k gold in the AH on a hardcore char currently in act 1 or 2 normal.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: K9 on May 19, 2012, 11:05:46 AM
The gem system is weird.  I don't understand the drop rate.  I haven't got any at lvl 16 but I can buy a flawless on for only 3k in the hardcore AH?  Ruby are incredibly strong at low lvl, it doubles your DPS and makes any non-slotted weapon useless.

Gems won't start dropping until the end of act II, maybe mid-act III if I recall right. After that they start dropping quite a lot. Flawless drop semi-frequently off rares and elites by nightmare, and they are pretty easy to craft up to. Flawless is only the 4th tier out of 14 for gems, so 3K seems about right.

You'll start seeing gems drop in Act 2. Flawless are (iirc) drops from Act 1 nightmare, so it's pretty asinine that you can buy them for 3k gold in the AH on a hardcore char currently in act 1 or 2 normal.

Gems don't mean much if you don't have any socketed gear to put them in though.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on May 19, 2012, 11:06:46 AM
A bid/buyout range would be very helpful.
There is a max buyout field, not exactly a range but I don't think you would want to set a minimum buyout anyways.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Trippy on May 19, 2012, 11:10:44 AM
I hope schild doesn't see this thread :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on May 19, 2012, 11:15:16 AM
:grin:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Quinton on May 19, 2012, 11:36:29 AM
My list 'o feature requests:
- a distinctive sound for gem / ring drops
- "invisible" mode in the friends list. sometimes I just want to solo and not be bugged
- allow chat during cut scenes
- option to not show white items
- more flexible AH sorting
- saved searchs in the AH
- a way to save skill setups and reload them (so I can toggle between a solo-centric mage and a total glass cannon for groups, etc)

Mostly just little things that would improve the experience.  I'm having fun!



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: cironian on May 19, 2012, 11:56:52 AM
A bid/buyout range would be very helpful.
There is a max buyout field, not exactly a range but I don't think you would want to set a minimum buyout anyways.

Setting any max buyout sets the min buyout to 1, filtering out any items without buyout price set. So just set the max to however much gold you have and sort by the buyout column to see the great deals.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Bann on May 19, 2012, 12:00:53 PM
I've got no complaints that haven't already been voiced. Played through normal SC once, and have slowly working my way through HC. With trading being as easy as it is, its basically like you and 10,000 of your friends all have a loot pool. I'm guessing once you get into nightmare hardcore that changes. Still, I have not seen any gear screenshots that have gotten me excited. Just Vitality, Primary, and + damage/DPS where applicable. I remember being excited when loot dropped in D2. Not sure if its rose colored glasses, but I remember tucking gear away on a mule and it deciding what my next character will be. Now its just "do I bother to list this on the AH, or should I just vendor/shard it?"

Does anyone remember what D2 1.0 was like lootwise? I'm pretty sure what I'm remembering is after LoD and multiple patches. For that matter, has anyone heard anything about content patches? Do you think they would do something like set drops, or release of a batch of new gear with interesting modifiers on it? On that point, with the way they designed the game, can you even have "interesting" gear? With each class having its own resource and no ranks to skills, it seems much tougher to design in my head.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Job601 on May 19, 2012, 12:02:47 PM
A bid/buyout range would be very helpful.
There is a max buyout field, not exactly a range but I don't think you would want to set a minimum buyout anyways.

Setting any max buyout sets the min buyout to 1, filtering out any items without buyout price set. So just set the max to however much gold you have and sort by the buyout column to see the great deals.

I agree that the auction house robs some of the fun out of the leveling experience, but honestly we don't really know yet what the economy will be like once most people have hit max level.  Crafting may be more useful then ( or not ,who knows.)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Miasma on May 19, 2012, 12:09:42 PM
I don't really care about any of the loot drops since I can buy incredible rares from the auction house for a pittance.  This of course takes away a lot of the excitement of a loot based game.  The only thing that would get my attention right now is a legendary drop, and even then I wouldn't be too excited.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Abelian75 on May 19, 2012, 12:17:16 PM
I don't really care about any of the loot drops since I can buy incredible rares from the auction house for a pittance.  This of course takes away a lot of the excitement of a loot based game.  The only thing that would get my attention right now is a legendary drop, and even then I wouldn't be too excited.

Yeah, it's a pretty strange situation.  I love the actual game, but a lot of the loot excitement goes away due to the AH, and I instead end up feeling like a single dude among millions just contributing my tiny little share to the massive loot pool.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Thrawn on May 19, 2012, 12:22:15 PM
I have a very love hate relationship with the AH.  I'm really liking being able to find great gear and upgrades for cheap.  But on the other hand it really takes away from grinding the game for gear because I know whatever Rare I just got off a boss, I can get a better one on the AH.  I'm also not a fan of the 60 level cap, in D2 you could always progress a little closer to 99.  Now it will be hit 60, nothing left to do but get gear.

Really enjoying the game and I'm sure I'll put a ton of time into, but I do agree with the comments that you can tell this is "post-WoW Diablo".


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Azuredream on May 19, 2012, 12:31:16 PM
From my memories of Diablo 2, all the awesome items I got for my characters were from trading. It was impossible to completely kit out your character in ubergear using just your own drops, so I'm not really getting the 'AH ruins the loot' thing, because for me it just streamlined the trading interface.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 19, 2012, 12:33:14 PM
I am seriously fascinated by you guys letting the AH mess everything up for you.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Nebu on May 19, 2012, 12:45:28 PM
I am seriously fascinated by you guys letting the AH mess everything up for you.

Me too. 

I ignore its existence.  Makes the game more fun.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Cheddar on May 19, 2012, 12:45:44 PM
I am seriously fascinated by you guys letting the AH mess everything up for you.

People like to complain.  Imagine the nerd rage if there was no AH.  The neckbeards would burn the internets down!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 19, 2012, 12:50:00 PM
I am seriously fascinated by you guys letting the AH mess everything up for you.

Me too. 

I ignore its existence.  Makes the game more fun.

I haven't ignored it 100%, but I basically only use it when I've gone MANY MANY levels without an upgrade to a slot (my DH's gloves were very sad indeed, for example, so I finally bought a new pair and uh ... I think I bought a wand for my wizard). I guess it "helps" that the AH is sort of assy to sort through because there's so much crap on it? I don't know.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 19, 2012, 01:00:07 PM
My list 'o feature requests:
- a distinctive sound for gem / ring drops

Hell yeah. Boggled me that Blizz missed that one.

Quote
- "invisible" mode in the friends list. sometimes I just want to solo and not be bugged


I'd like a flag you set while your'e playing. "LFG" means you will accept party requests. "NLFG" means you autoreject them. Visible icon on your friends list.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 19, 2012, 01:04:56 PM
I love this game and have no complaints.

I am finding (at level 48 or so) that the AH awesome prices for great gear is not happening for me. I can't afford gear that will put me at the edge, so I hope to buy some and meanwhile am going back to the beginning of Act 4 to get cash. I do have my full second tab bought in my stash, and have JC maxed until I hit Hell, and am working on upping my blacksmithing (despite not actually crafting anything yet).

Out of all the crap that drops, I've found a few really great pieces that I can use. I have vendored crap without even checking to see if it's worth auctioning or not (I stopped doing that at 40 due to high prices at the AH). I found one super yellow helm for my Barb once she hits 40 (I could sell it but then again, it's better than anything I've seen on the AH so I'm not going to).

I wish I had a handy guide that gives the ranges of the stats for gear.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 19, 2012, 01:21:08 PM
Stats that aren't primary are also important since dex = dodge, str=armor and int=resists for all classes.

I'm noticing that gems are going to be a lot more important than the base items in the long run.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 19, 2012, 02:02:19 PM
Why do I need to right click an item to identify them now? There is no consumable, why is this needed?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 19, 2012, 02:08:09 PM
To give you that brief moment of "omg what is it" before being annoyed you got a wizard offhand with +30 str on it or whatever.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 19, 2012, 02:49:11 PM
Well losing game progress because you get disconnected from the servers is bad. I lost 3 hours of gameplay (including a golden and several purple items) from "you got disconnected" errors.

It's one thing to try and prevent pirating from forced online gaming it's another to lose progress and items from the inane checkpointing system. At least let me save in town or fucking remember my chars state if you disconnect me.

I get a bad WoW flashback from Diablo 3, starts with the login scren, ends with the achievements.

It's also not as compelling or gripping as 2 was.

Positive: It's probably the most streamlined and polished game experience yet. You get to everything with the minimal amount of clicks. Skills are balanced quite well and the story missions are perfectly balanced between short and long intricate and straightforward.

That perfect polish makes it perfectly bland though.

Cut scenes are awesomely animated. Detailed with nearly no uncanny valley. You could make a movie from this.

It has all the ingredients of Diablo, including that addictive quality that makes you play hours upon hours. It feels a bit to polished and bland though.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hawkbit on May 19, 2012, 03:04:22 PM
Why do I need to right click an item to identify them now? There is no consumable, why is this needed?

Originally I thought this was done so people could trade unidentified things on the AH, but then I found that I couldn't post an unidentified item.  It's a head-scratcher.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Evildrider on May 19, 2012, 03:23:08 PM
Game is boring me out of my skull.  I remember having fun with Diablo 2 back in the day, but I can't even get myself to get out of act 2. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Selby on May 19, 2012, 03:25:53 PM
I ignore its existence.  Makes the game more fun.
My first character is using the AH since that's what I feel like doing.  Others probably won't care or bother unless I get stuck at a place where I have horrible gear and the mobs\bosses are tearing me apart since my time and patience for farming gear is quite limited in my old age now.  The nerd rage over the AH has been amusing.

I don't feel the game is too polished or bland, I'd rather have everything balanced and working great than a buggy experience that I have to resort to forum reading and various head scratching workarounds to actually progress (which quite a few single player games have had lately it seems).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on May 19, 2012, 03:29:36 PM
Why do I need to right click an item to identify them now? There is no consumable, why is this needed?

Originally I thought this was done so people could trade unidentified things on the AH, but then I found that I couldn't post an unidentified item.  It's a head-scratcher.

I am 99% sure it's done for the "unwrap-a-packed-gift-suprise" factor.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tannhauser on May 19, 2012, 03:36:26 PM
I'm having fun, taking my time, thoroughly clearing zones.  I like the small event instances.  The story is good enough, the environments are fantastic.  A polished, fun experience.  Fun fun fun.

But the AH kind of messes up the loot experience.  I don't currently see a need for the smith and JC.  Anything you need is on the AH for dirt cheap. 

I think they messed up there. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 19, 2012, 03:48:52 PM
Why do I need to right click an item to identify them now? There is no consumable, why is this needed?

Originally I thought this was done so people could trade unidentified things on the AH, but then I found that I couldn't post an unidentified item.  It's a head-scratcher.

I am 99% sure it's done for the "unwrap-a-packed-gift-suprise" factor.

Jay Wilson said this in an interview.  They liked the idea of identifying, but didn't want people to have to either wait to go back to town (ie. Cain in D2) or have to carry scrolls around.  So they just let you do it this way.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: murdoc on May 19, 2012, 03:56:01 PM
I check the AH on the "10s" and put max buyout at 2000g. If I can't find it in that range, I don't get it. I have bought a ton of the crafting essence though.

Gems need to be a different colour than white and WHY OH WHY is there no "PING" noise.

I have to remember not to use my ACT 2 char to go back and give friends loot in Act 1.

Other than that, love it.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on May 19, 2012, 04:26:09 PM
I got into 90+clvl on a few characters in D2. I'm not certain I'll hit cap with D3. It's good although ping hits 400ms to Sydney and results in teleporting mobs sometimes. My Biggest gripe is they have WoWified the game. I'm not touching the AH to play but I can see how it can trivialise the gameplay. Too much scripting of bosses - The Butcher is a prime example. In D1 "Ahhh... fresh meat as ranged meant "I hope you've cleared the instance because you are going to need to run" (unless you door exploited). In D2 it means "follow the scripted movements".

Storyline is good (I'm mid Act 2 at lvl 22) - achievements are "meh - nice bandwagoin").

Gamepleay is "oh wow, nice - an experience shrine" when there are no fucking mobs around for the next 2 minutes - WTF???? Seriously, D1 and D2 were all about Serious Sam style hack and slash. The sparsity of mobs in D3 is tear-worthy. Too much fearing from purple mobs sucks - I've died more than a few times to being chain feared. Hint Blizzard: I want to PLAY the game, not sit and watch while mobs get medieval on me. Likewise teleporting purples... as a DH I'm ranged and kiting and your mobs teleport to my glass-cannon ass? Even when I can vault they 'port again.

DH is shitty to level, especially early on when your Paladin won't tank. At 22 it's getting easier, but the death runs are frustrating.

Biggest complaint: Levelling my Monk to 13, wondering why I can't see my friends from SC2/WoW on realID... only to realise that I got defaulted to the Euro servers. I live in Australia, not fucking Austria you morons! I had to restart my chars :S

Sounds like a big rant but I am enjoying it (I'm a masochist and sticking with the DH for now). I don't think it has the longevity for me though.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 19, 2012, 04:40:38 PM
I wish pages and gems were a color other than white. I also wish gems and rings had their proper drop sound.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 19, 2012, 04:56:16 PM
Seriously, D1 and D2 were all about Serious Sam style hack and slash. The sparsity of mobs in D3 is tear-worthy.

It picks up a lot in Act 3


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 19, 2012, 05:03:49 PM
I'm having fun, taking my time, thoroughly clearing zones.  I like the small event instances.  The story is good enough, the environments are fantastic.  A polished, fun experience.  Fun fun fun.

But the AH kind of messes up the loot experience.  I don't currently see a need for the smith and JC.  Anything you need is on the AH for dirt cheap. 

I think they messed up there. 

I think crafting is a gold sink for people who like to gamble.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on May 19, 2012, 05:16:48 PM
Gamepleay is "oh wow, nice - an experience shrine" when there are no fucking mobs around for the next 2 minutes - WTF????

Lmao... yeah.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Nightblade on May 19, 2012, 05:25:08 PM
Has anyone managed to join a pub game with more than one other person idling / botting? I've done so around 3 times, and it's only been one other person, not four more people.

Killed Magdha, got a rare mighty weapon! ... ... A level 9 mighty weapon.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 19, 2012, 05:57:46 PM
Act 3 gets swarmy finally, but it sucks it takes 2 acts to really get to that.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Quinton on May 19, 2012, 06:08:10 PM
I am seriously fascinated by you guys letting the AH mess everything up for you.

I've gotten more awesome gear just swapping with party-mates than buying...


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Zane0 on May 19, 2012, 06:13:35 PM
I don't feel very attached to my character since I can just switch skills around at will. I completely understand why Blizzard did this but I had more fun in D2 doing eclectic research into skills and bringing a character concept into fruition; it was a kind of compact that paid off down the road. There are choices in D3 but they're back-ended and early gameplay has zero strategic planning as a result. Shrug.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on May 19, 2012, 06:20:55 PM
Gripes:
Legendary items don't have any unique affixes. They are often outclasses by blues/rares. Dev intended a mix of rares/blues/legendary for end-game gear. The result is possibly finding many, many completely worthless legendary items which are outclasses by blues
The gem slot takes an affix slot, and a gem isn't going to give enough bonus to make up for the missing affix. I can put a +14 vitality gem in a pair of pants. Great, except it took an affix slot that could have possibly been +30 vitality
The whole AH in general. Every single item's worth is broken down to simple gold. Meh
Earlygame crafting
Heavily scripted boss encounters, and bosses dropping shit items. I understand this is done to discourage farming, but they really should have a first-kill loot table similar to D2*
No form of PvP
No real money AH (don't really care too much, but would like to have seen it make the game's release since the game has been in development for 6 years...)
Would have liked to spend more time in Act 4 heaven, it felt way, way too railroaded compared to the other Acts



I still love the game, and I'm trying not to be too critical. I understand the AH will change over time, crafting may kick ass late game, PvP will be added, RM AH will be added, and some other issues will be ironed out.

*Would like to build on this more. Remember the first time you killed Diablo in D2? The rush, combined with him dropping 1-2 uniques and 1-2 set items was a feeling I never, ever got sick of.  Sure the items might not have been amazing, but the unique would have pretty cool UNIQUE affixes on them, unique icons and unique looks. That excitement just isn't there in D3...


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Quinton on May 19, 2012, 06:25:30 PM
I don't feel very attached to my character since I can just switch skills around at will. I completely understand why Blizzard did this but I had more fun in D2 doing eclectic research into skills and bringing a character concept into fruition; it was a kind of compact that paid off down the road. There are choices in D3 but they're back-ended and early gameplay has zero strategic planning as a result. Shrug.

I *love* that I can shuffle skills around and try different things without needing to roll a new character every time.  This is definitely a feature, not a bug, for me.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 19, 2012, 06:47:19 PM
I don't feel very attached to my character since I can just switch skills around at will. I completely understand why Blizzard did this but I had more fun in D2 doing eclectic research into skills and bringing a character concept into fruition; it was a kind of compact that paid off down the road. There are choices in D3 but they're back-ended and early gameplay has zero strategic planning as a result. Shrug.

I *love* that I can shuffle skills around and try different things without needing to roll a new character every time.  This is definitely a feature, not a bug, for me.

Given how much runes switch a skill around, I redo my skill bar very frequently when I get a new rune or two and see if I dig how it works with that setup.

I'd hate D3's skills with no instant respecs. It would suck so badly.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: ShenMolo on May 19, 2012, 06:53:25 PM
Complaint #1...Feeling some carpal tunnel on my mouse hand for the first time since WoW vanilla days.

Minor Complaint #2 ...I don't even bother looking hard at loot any more, it all just goes to the vendor.

Like others have said, I just go shopping at the start of every new Act and buy the best gear I find for under 5k each slot, and is up to +2 lvls. Most of it is less than 2k. Nothing I find during the course of adventuring matches what I find on the AH.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rasix on May 19, 2012, 07:34:43 PM
Complaint #1...Feeling some carpal tunnel on my mouse hand for the first time since WoW vanilla days.

Yah, this. My arm is starting to feel the beginnings of major pain to come.  I imagine in a week I'll have to take a break for a few days and go play console rpgs or something.  I just can't click this much for 2+ hours a day.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: KallDrexx on May 19, 2012, 08:33:30 PM
Fuck lag

That's my biggest complaint


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: apocrypha on May 19, 2012, 10:30:00 PM
Has anyone managed to join a pub game with more than one other person idling / botting? I've done so around 3 times, and it's only been one other person, not four more people.

Best way I've found is to open your own game to the public and carry on playing. Most of the time if people join and see someone actually playing instead of standing around they stay. I rarely get 4 player games that way but often end up with 3 player teams that stay together for a couple of hours.

This is my main gripe actually, I'd like a game browser rather than just a "Join random game" button.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Amaron on May 19, 2012, 10:31:04 PM
My complaint is also about the AH. It ruins a lot of the fun of finding new gear or crafting something cool. I can either spend 8k gold and a bunch of materials trying 4 times to create a decent chest piece, or I can just go to the AH and buy something way better than anything I could ever make for 2k gold.

I'd like to see them open a no-trade version of the game myself as well.   Make it a checkbox like hardcore at char creation.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: schild on May 19, 2012, 10:58:50 PM
My complaint is also about the AH. It ruins a lot of the fun of finding new gear or crafting something cool. I can either spend 8k gold and a bunch of materials trying 4 times to create a decent chest piece, or I can just go to the AH and buy something way better than anything I could ever make for 2k gold.

I'd like to see them open a no-trade version of the game myself as well.   Make it a checkbox like hardcore at char creation.
Never gonna happen. Sorry but the AH is their way of guaranteeing continued development and endless sales. It will have a more stable economy than Greece. If you want to ignore it, you can. Just don't press the button.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hawkbit on May 19, 2012, 11:19:21 PM
Clan/guild stuff needs fleshed out.  I'd love to have a F13 chat window going instead of it being limited to just the group. 

The game I have no complaints over, other than lag.  Some of the added benefit stuff needs work though.  I'm hoping that they continue development like WoW and expand on what they have.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MournelitheCalix on May 19, 2012, 11:40:18 PM
No complaints here either.  This has been great fun, even if Diablo is owning my ass right now.  Anyone notice how they incorporated from Demon Souls the crystal worm?  I thought that was a great little thing to incorporate.  It has led to more than one death for me since I pretty much focus upon killing that little treasure goblin when I see him.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on May 20, 2012, 12:13:30 AM
To be honest, the game isn't grabbing me like D2 did. It's probably just an age thing, but I couldn't be bothered to play it until like 9:00-10:00 PM last night even though I got home at 6. I played for an hour, then decided I'd rather just sleep in than continue playing.

But you've still managed to get to 40. That doesn't sound like lack of interest. :)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Amaron on May 20, 2012, 12:19:47 AM
Never gonna happen. Sorry but the AH is their way of guaranteeing continued development and endless sales. It will have a more stable economy than Greece. If you want to ignore it, you can. Just don't press the button.

I think it'd be a pretty niche game mode and only a small percentage of the game would be interested in it.    Just saying to ignore it is missing the point too.   That's like saying you can play hardcore by deleting your character when you die.  You can't get any bragging rights that way.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 20, 2012, 01:32:36 AM
The worst part is, for my alt-itis addled mind, that you apparently have to slog through Normal mode every time you want to reroll a new class. I can take one challenge free playthrough just experiencing the story, but five times makes the whole thing way boring.

Now tell me I'm wrong about this.

 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ragnoros on May 20, 2012, 02:51:01 AM
Now tell me I'm wrong about this. 

You are wrong. After beating one's head against hell boss packs for a few hours cruising through normal like a demigod on an alt is awesome.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Azuredream on May 20, 2012, 02:52:42 AM
In Diablo 2 you could get your high level buddies to rush a new character up in levels very quickly, but Blizzard might be clamping down on that in this iteration. There is at least the ability to skip to the final quest in an act with the help of a friend, but then you're faced with the problem of being horribly under-leveled.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: ShenMolo on May 20, 2012, 03:51:15 AM
Every toon has to play through all the difficulty levels? That is brutal.

I thought once you unlocked them on one toon, you had the choice to play them on your other ones.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: caladein on May 20, 2012, 04:00:56 AM
I'm almost certain you can get Nightmare unlocked just by jumping in on the last quest of Normal.  Hell requires both the last quest of Nightmare AND level 50.

You definitely don't have to do all of the quests in a difficulty though as both of my characters have a few quests missing each from jumping out of friends' co-op games to grab a bite to eat or whatnot.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: K9 on May 20, 2012, 04:44:27 AM
 - Item tooltips in the AH clip off the bottom of the screen
 - It would be nice to give followers more equipment
 - Dyes for shields


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 20, 2012, 04:55:11 AM
I'm almost certain you can get Nightmare unlocked just by jumping in on the last quest of Normal. 


You can unlock Nightmare by jumping to a toon who's already killed Diablo but hasn't turned-in the final quest, yes.  I almost did so with Cheddar when he killed Diablo the first time. The angel had the big final "!" above her head, which I now know would have bumped me to Nightmare.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 20, 2012, 05:06:13 AM
Every toon has to play through all the difficulty levels? That is brutal.

I thought once you unlocked them on one toon, you had the choice to play them on your other ones.

How would that work?  The difficulty levels don't start over at level 1, you continue the progression of the character.  By this logic if you unlocked Inferno on one character would you just get free level 60s?  These aren't like Torchlight difficulties which are easy/normal/hard/very hard all starting from level 1.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sion Verdox on May 20, 2012, 05:22:31 AM
The economy is totally wack! I was just on the AH equiping a lvl 25 barb and you can buy legendary items for next to nowt.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 20, 2012, 05:23:37 AM
"The Servers Are Too Busy At This Time."

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sion Verdox on May 20, 2012, 05:26:43 AM
"The Servers Are Too Busy At This Time."

 :oh_i_see:

Getting that now as well :) They still cant get that right can they.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 20, 2012, 08:07:19 AM
In this age of single player games going down for emergency maintenance, I'm getting significant mileage out of Tera.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on May 20, 2012, 08:16:07 AM
One would thing if I have the burning need to make a Single Player game Online only, I at least get the Logon Servers working on a Sunday.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Shatter on May 20, 2012, 08:17:40 AM
Got up this morning to check auctions and all my items and money are gone except whats on auction.  Character is level 33 still and game was back to normal mode from nightmare.  Not sure if I was hacked or if this happened after my computer crashed last night and its bugged out somehow, put in a ticket but I dont expect to get anything back.  Reading lots of people with the same problem apparently.  Im playing the correct region so thats not it.  I dont use an authenticator since I quit WOW over 6 years ago although I did just order one.  Guess I will have to play through some normal mode to try and regain money and items back so I can get back to nightmare mode.  /sigh


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 20, 2012, 08:19:56 AM
One would thing if I have the burning need to make a Single Player game Online only, I at least get the Logon Servers working on a Sunday.

Currently playing on the US Servers.

This is a fucking joke.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tannhauser on May 20, 2012, 08:28:54 AM
I turned on the General chat yesterday and the very first message I see is a gold farmer.  Switched it right back off.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 20, 2012, 08:50:20 AM
To be honest, the game isn't grabbing me like D2 did. It's probably just an age thing, but I couldn't be bothered to play it until like 9:00-10:00 PM last night even though I got home at 6. I played for an hour, then decided I'd rather just sleep in than continue playing.

But you've still managed to get to 40. That doesn't sound like lack of interest. :)

30, rather. Also I literally only have my monk character right now. :P


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 20, 2012, 08:55:12 AM
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4210123010

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 20, 2012, 09:06:13 AM
Your Call is Important to Us.  Please Wait While We Grease Your Anus.  Thank you for Holding.  Your Call is Important to Us.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Shatter on May 20, 2012, 09:17:26 AM
I dont think I got hacked, sounds like a bunch of people had same occurence and its on their end.  Items and gold missing, characters untouched, game reset to normal mode.  People with authenticators having same problem


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on May 20, 2012, 09:24:07 AM
Well, I guess if I get rolled back to Normal then that makes the decision for me whether I'm going to start another class or head into Nightmare. Probably the best thing for me would be to take a night off. :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: satael on May 20, 2012, 09:52:12 AM
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4210123010

 :why_so_serious:

You could always play on US server (thought the friends list and characters are different).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 20, 2012, 10:12:50 AM
Europe being down for 4 hours on a Sunday afternoon is just unforgivable. It's not even like WoW where they can at least credit your account for the day.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: K9 on May 20, 2012, 10:14:07 AM
Yeah, this is pretty piss poor. Going back to square one on the US servers isn't all that much fun.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 20, 2012, 10:31:13 AM
A Real Money Auction House.

Wow, so looking forward to THAT now.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: statisticalfool on May 20, 2012, 10:43:44 AM
The gem system is weird.  I don't understand the drop rate.  I haven't got any at lvl 16 but I can buy a flawless on for only 3k in the hardcore AH?  Ruby are incredibly strong at low lvl, it doubles your DPS and makes any non-slotted weapon useless.

This is actually working as intended (regardless of whether it's a good idea): blues have said that gems are supposed to be the "twink your second character" system.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 20, 2012, 10:51:23 AM
Complaint #1...Feeling some carpal tunnel on my mouse hand for the first time since WoW vanilla days.

Yah, this. My arm is starting to feel the beginnings of major pain to come.  I imagine in a week I'll have to take a break for a few days and go play console rpgs or something.  I just can't click this much for 2+ hours a day.


(http://play.esea.net/global/media_preview.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.protias.com%2FPictures%2FFamily%2520Guy%2Fquagmire%2520strong%2520arm.png)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 20, 2012, 12:15:34 PM
The main difference, as near as I can tell, between this complaint thread and the ones we have for other releases is that people in this thread are complaining they can't play enough  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on May 20, 2012, 01:31:06 PM
More 'fun' with the new item system:

http://diablo3markets.incgamers.com/blog/comments/legendary-set-items-immenseley-undertuned-high-end-weapons-trivialized


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 20, 2012, 01:53:37 PM
More 'fun' with the new item system:

http://diablo3markets.incgamers.com/blog/comments/legendary-set-items-immenseley-undertuned-high-end-weapons-trivialized


Now watch them nerf blue weapons instead of buffing legendaries, amirite?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 20, 2012, 02:05:33 PM
The funniest bit of that is them saying they have more sets and legendaries in the game than ever before and then you check out the AH and realise they just put the old ones in with new stats.

This whole thing sucks.  It's the Torchlight One of loot.

With Shit Servers.

Fucking clownshoes.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Miasma on May 20, 2012, 02:24:21 PM
- I feel terrible killing the loot goblins, I empathize more with them than any of these extremely dumb and gullible companions I hang out with.

- I am certain I could sell angelic vases back on earth for more than the couple dozen gold I find in 1/5 of the ones I smash.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 20, 2012, 02:26:46 PM
There is literally nothing I will not sprint blindly through in order to kill a loot goblin. Nothing.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Quinton on May 20, 2012, 02:31:06 PM
There is literally nothing I will not sprint blindly through in order to kill a loot goblin. Nothing.

Same.  I'm amazed I haven't killed myself or entire parties as a side-effect of loot goblin chasing yet...


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on May 20, 2012, 02:35:40 PM
I didn't even know you could kill the treasure goblins until release. I guess I just never tried hard enough in beta and I didn't have monster health bars turned on, either.

I'm completely obsessed with blowing everything up that I can, even random desks, stools and ladders. Partly for the EXP bonus but mostly out of sheer glee. I blow up the angelic vases but it makes me feel bad.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 20, 2012, 02:57:39 PM
The funniest bit of that is them saying they have more sets and legendaries in the game than ever before and then you check out the AH and realise they just put the old ones in with new stats.

This whole thing sucks.  It's the Torchlight One of loot.

With Shit Servers.

Fucking clownshoes.


Sorry to say this but did you actually PLAY torchlight one? Whilst I do think Diablo 3 has loot issues, it's no where near as bad as the mess that was Torchlight 1. The entire game doesn't revolve around endlessly enchanting one weapon and hoping it doesn't break for one thing. Random items don't drop from the sky full covered in utterly useless stats no-one would ever want. (seriously torchlight loot had so many mods on the items and they were so bad!).

I think blizzard has forgotten the effect that uniques and set items dropping has on people even when they were low level sets you'd only use on an alt, or not even very good. At the moment for the vast majority of players diabo 3 only has two types of item - legendaries and sets are far, far too rare, and there aren't enough of them. Also having half of them be crafted sucks because the crafting system jus sucks...

(also, first time kills. Of bosses should ALWAYS have better loot on them, absolutely no idea why that stops after normal mode).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ginaz on May 20, 2012, 03:00:37 PM
There is literally nothing I will not sprint blindly through in order to kill a loot goblin. Nothing.

I hear you, sister.  I hear you.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 20, 2012, 03:15:31 PM
The worst part is, for my alt-itis addled mind, that you apparently have to slog through Normal mode every time you want to reroll a new class. I can take one challenge free playthrough just experiencing the story, but five times makes the whole thing way boring.

Now tell me I'm wrong about this.
 

You're wrong about this.

There are 5 characters. Each one plays differently. You can reskill any time you want. Before a boss, in a fight, whenever.

You'll beat Diablo by level 30 in Normal. You'll beat him by 50 in Nightmare. Maybe you'll beat him at 60 in Hell mode and maybe not. Maybe you'll beat him at 60 in Inferno mode and maybe not.

If you're playing Diablo for the story, then you probably won't enjoy it past Normal mode.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 20, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
Got up this morning to check auctions and all my items and money are gone except whats on auction.  Character is level 33 still and game was back to normal mode from nightmare.  Not sure if I was hacked or if this happened after my computer crashed last night and its bugged out somehow, put in a ticket but I dont expect to get anything back.  Reading lots of people with the same problem apparently.  Im playing the correct region so thats not it.  I dont use an authenticator since I quit WOW over 6 years ago although I did just order one.  Guess I will have to play through some normal mode to try and regain money and items back so I can get back to nightmare mode.  /sigh

When you are at your character screen, can you choose Nightmare mode on the Select Quest button?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: ShenMolo on May 20, 2012, 03:19:08 PM
There is literally nothing I will not sprint blindly through in order to kill a loot goblin. Nothing.

I hear you, sister.  I hear you.

While chasing these guys I realized you can rush through levels without fighting if you need too. Just keep running, your companion will get lots of aggro but will disengage to keep up. The last couple of Spires or whatever in Normal before Diablo I just ran through them.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Azazel on May 20, 2012, 03:23:40 PM
Well losing game progress because you get disconnected from the servers is bad. I lost 3 hours of gameplay (including a golden and several purple items) from "you got disconnected" errors.

It's one thing to try and prevent pirating from forced online gaming it's another to lose progress and items from the inane checkpointing system. At least let me save in town or fucking remember my chars state if you disconnect me.
 

I sometimes "save" by leaving the game every so often. Usually after having found a new portal or whatnot. There should be regular autosaving and save-on-disconnect, though -  I agree.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 20, 2012, 03:31:05 PM
I do hope that the first patch starts a ladder season and adds extra loot into the game. I really do feel like there are significantly less sets and uniques in thegame compared to D2.

(although to be fair D2 had exactly the same issue re weapon damage. A blue pike with the maximum damage mod was the best weapon a barbarian could get, for example, as that mod could only spawn on blue items and weapon damage range was by far the most vital stat).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Llyse on May 20, 2012, 05:58:25 PM
I'm loving it, the only gripe I have is AH only has 10 sell slots, I think 15/20 would have been perfect.

I love the AH especially since I'm don't have the time to continue playing all night long all day anymore.

Also, I was playing with some friends last night when we got up to Diablo and fell asleep at my keyboard... next morning my character was up to Nightmare.

The question I have is if I kill Diablo, will it count as killing Diablo for the first time and thus extra shineys?!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phildo on May 20, 2012, 09:52:00 PM
I don't like the linear leveling much.  I want to distribute my own attributes, and there are so many abilities I have no interest in using.  It's also very unclear to me how my stats effect the Witch Doctor's summons.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: apocrypha on May 20, 2012, 10:27:11 PM
Same.  I'm amazed I haven't killed myself or entire parties as a side-effect of loot goblin chasing yet...

I have got myself killed several times in Nightmare chasing these little gits. Most frustrating when I die and still didn't manage to stop the tiny pinata from escaping! I've tried to use his portal several times too, but no joy. Yet.  :grin:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xuri on May 20, 2012, 11:08:33 PM
Wait, what? You can use the portals they put up??


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: SurfD on May 20, 2012, 11:23:23 PM
The funniest bit of that is them saying they have more sets and legendaries in the game than ever before and then you check out the AH and realise they just put the old ones in with new stats.

This whole thing sucks.  It's the Torchlight One of loot.

With Shit Servers.

Fucking clownshoes.


Sorry to say this but did you actually PLAY torchlight one? Whilst I do think Diablo 3 has loot issues, it's no where near as bad as the mess that was Torchlight 1. The entire game doesn't revolve around endlessly enchanting one weapon and hoping it doesn't break for one thing. Random items don't drop from the sky full covered in utterly useless stats no-one would ever want. (seriously torchlight loot had so many mods on the items and they were so bad!).
  Not to mention that EVERYTHING on a Torchlight item was a stat mod, and having an item break meant losing ALL modifiers on it, effectively meaning that when an item broke, you were left with a BLANK item, it didn't reset to the "base" stats it dropped with, it just turned into completely useless garbage.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: apocrypha on May 21, 2012, 02:54:41 AM
Wait, what? You can use the portals they put up??

No, I don't think so, but they Lore speech when you first kill one mentions that there's a rumor that their portals lead to somewhere called "Ghreed's Realm" so I just had to try.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 21, 2012, 03:20:00 AM
Yes, I played Torchlight a lot.  I don't equate the two games with the depth of the problem, but gear and loot are major factors in this game and, frankly, none of it is grabbing me the way it did in Diablo 2 or 1.  I'm looking at the AH and wondering if it ever will - most of the gear on there just looks dreadful.

They also need to change the rules to stop useless stats on items.  It's really bad.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: caladein on May 21, 2012, 03:25:21 AM
1) Can't lock the hotbar.  Might just be an issue in elective mode, but sometimes I'll drag an ability off or swap it with something else triggering the respec cooldowns.  Friends have run into it a few times as well.  Happens quite a bit considering how rarely I click on abilities.

2) No option to toggle screen shake.  One of my regular foursome is really bothered by it so that's kind of a problem as a I stare longingly at some of the Meteor runes.

Also one so minor that it doesn't deserve a number: having crafting pages/gems not show up as white would be nice.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 21, 2012, 03:39:00 AM
Male Witch Doctor is a fat bloke with Parkinsons.

Makes for a very odd login screen.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 21, 2012, 04:08:53 AM
The funniest bit of that is them saying they have more sets and legendaries in the game than ever before and then you check out the AH and realise they just put the old ones in with new stats.

This whole thing sucks.  It's the Torchlight One of loot.

With Shit Servers.

Fucking clownshoes.


Sorry to say this but did you actually PLAY torchlight one? Whilst I do think Diablo 3 has loot issues, it's no where near as bad as the mess that was Torchlight 1. The entire game doesn't revolve around endlessly enchanting one weapon and hoping it doesn't break for one thing. Random items don't drop from the sky full covered in utterly useless stats no-one would ever want. (seriously torchlight loot had so many mods on the items and they were so bad!).
  Not to mention that EVERYTHING on a Torchlight item was a stat mod, and having an item break meant losing ALL modifiers on it, effectively meaning that when an item broke, you were left with a BLANK item, it didn't reset to the "base" stats it dropped with, it just turned into completely useless garbage.

Normalize by resources spent and it's not so bad for Torchlight 1.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 21, 2012, 04:41:00 AM
They also need to change the rules to stop useless stats on items.  It's really bad.

Funny, this is contrary to the comments in that legendary items thread linked earlier.

One complaint they touched on is that most gear is TOO useful.  No restriction by stats or class type other than a few items and all the stats are of use to every class in some way.  Meaning all that matters is how high the stat values are.

Quote
In Diablo 3 on the other hand, thus far has very generic, balanced and equally useful affixes no matter what your class or spec is. In fact, before the recent changes to Attribute points, every single affix was more or less equally useful for every single class/spec. In addition to this, item-types in Diablo 3 are far more homogenized, meaning that every class can use virtually every item-type (some restrictions). Wizards can use big 2h swords. Armors have no requirements, usable by all. This further moves away from the D2-style model of low-probability awesome items. It means that when you roll up a rare item, all of its stats are useful, and the criteria for an item to be good is drastically lowered to only one thing: High Stat Ranges.

I'll agree I've been mostly underwhelmed by the loot but primarily because of this problem.  I get a drop I'm not excited I can use it, I'm disappointed that the stat values aren't higher on it.  60 more Armor? Pft who cares it's only 12 int.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on May 21, 2012, 06:01:08 AM
I'm loving it, the only gripe I have is AH only has 10 sell slots, I think 15/20 would have been perfect.

I personally think it should be less, maybe around 5. There is already a ridiculous amount of junk on the auction house, and when you got hundreds of thousands (or millions) of people selling 20 items plus it just gets ridiculous. At least with 5 items people have to think about what they want to sell and price it accordingly.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Thrawn on May 21, 2012, 06:38:20 AM
I personally think it should be less, maybe around 5. There is already a ridiculous amount of junk on the auction house, and when you got hundreds of thousands (or millions) of people selling 20 items plus it just gets ridiculous. At least with 5 items people have to think about what they want to sell and price it accordingly.

Learn to use then filters so you don't see all the crap then.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 21, 2012, 08:18:30 AM
Which is fine unless you're not sure what you want.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Salamok on May 21, 2012, 08:33:29 AM
Not sure if this has been said yet but I feel like they just copied Diablo 2 and made it better.  Maybe I am overly sensitive to this because I am at that age where everything seems to be a rewrite of something I have seen before.

I suppose this is good because hey a better Diablo 2, but no it steals it's own thunder because I have already played this game to death.

I am only 15 hours in and halfway through ACT 2 so hopefully I am completely wrong, if ACT 3 is in the jungle I am going to be severely disappointed.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: schild on May 21, 2012, 08:46:22 AM
The jungle is rolled into act 2.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Salamok on May 21, 2012, 08:54:32 AM
The jungle is rolled into act 2.  :awesome_for_real:
Dude WTF, Spoilers!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 21, 2012, 09:40:41 AM
There's no armory/ character link yet is there.  There's my gripe!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 21, 2012, 11:45:19 AM
Not sure if this has been said yet but I feel like they just copied Diablo 2 and made it better.  Maybe I am overly sensitive to this because I am at that age where everything seems to be a rewrite of something I have seen before.

I suppose this is good because hey a better Diablo 2, but no it steals it's own thunder because I have already played this game to death.

I am only 15 hours in and halfway through ACT 2 so hopefully I am completely wrong, if ACT 3 is in the jungle I am going to be severely disappointed.

Act 3 is Acts 4 and 5 from Diablo 2. Act 4 in Diablo 3 is the only really 'new' setting for a Diablo game, but it's also the shortest act by far. Me and a friend finished it in ~90 minutes where the other Acts took 4-6 hours a piece.

I beat the game on normal yesterday and felt a bit underwhelmed by the overall experience. That acts and settings were stolen from Diablo 2 was sort of a neat nostalgia throwback, but it gets old by the third act and the game just starts to feel unambitious. It's another sequel in the style of DOTA2: some mechanical upgrades, but largely a graphical update. The exception to this is the skill system which does feel like a major innovation for the series/genre and was a huge improvement over Diablo 2's. I’d also say loot deviates largely from the D2 formula, but not in a good way.

-Weapon damage being far-and-away the #1 stat makes loot boring. You will never slot anything besides a ruby in a weapon. Rings with +damage eclipse most rings with loads of other stats. My wizard friend ended up replacing his rare caster dagger and orb with a blue 2-handed sword that had higher base damage, a socket, and nothing else. This is not good loot design. The article waffel linked goes into how broken this continues to be at level cap when blue weapons with high damage mods out-perform the best legendaries in the game.
-Bosses drop poorer loot than rare or elite packs, which makes boss kills that had been an endorphin rush in D2 pretty anti-climatic. I got a rare level 15 fist weapon from my first Diablo kill on my 32 monk. This has been par for the course across all of my characters.
-Drops always seem to be drastically under-level for what level your character is when doing the content. This means you’re always going to find the best options in the auction house because your level 20 character isn’t going to see level 20 drops.
-Crafting is too expensive and too random. It could really only afford to be one or the other. It’s not worth spending 3k gold and materials to make a chest piece that may have terrible stats when you could buy a chest piece better than you could make for 2k gold in the AH.
-AH in general ruins a lot of the luster loot had in D2. Unique items have been replaced by legendaries, and legendaries hardly feel unique when you see 40 pages of the same item in the AH.

For a game that has been in development for 11 years, it's not as polished as it should be. Why do I need to leave the game to post something in the AH or edit my banner? If I can’t post items to the AH that need to be repaired, why do I have to leave the AH and re-enter the game just to repair?

It’s missing some features that really should be there. Horde mode or an ‘endless dungeon/tower with ramping difficulty’ would have been great fits for the genre. PvP was cut which, while not something I’m very interested in, Blizzard should have had the time/money to finish given how long they've been working on the game. The campaign was a bit short and there is no content besides the campaign. Like I said, underwhelming.

I enjoyed the game overall but I don’t see them acting quickly enough to fix loot while it still matters. Without an addictive loot system the game isn't sticky. Diablo 2 consumed my entire summer when it came out but I don’t see myself playing Diablo 3 for more than a few weeks.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Furiously on May 21, 2012, 11:52:03 AM
The do need to up the drop levels. I'd rather something good drops that I can't use yet than something ten levels old.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 21, 2012, 11:58:21 AM
I think they need to do something about the drops as well. And they will especially when the RMAH goes live.

I echo the drops coming from mobs at current level seem oddly under whatever you're rocking. For some reason I'd get level 15 crap in Act 3 fights. Why? You should never have a boss drop things that are less than 5 levels below the expected kill zone.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 21, 2012, 11:59:24 AM
I'd say if you stop at normal mode, you haven't gotten to the interesting parts of the game.  Now, I will say this is bad design since games should be fun and interesting from the get-go but it is what it is.  


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 21, 2012, 12:16:03 PM
We're going to keep playing up to Hell at least, but most of my complaints won't be affected by higher difficulties. The loot system just seems broken and it was the core of Diablo 2.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: naum on May 21, 2012, 12:40:09 PM
For a game that has been in development for 11 years, it's not as polished as it should be. Why do I need to leave the game to post something in the AH or edit my banner? If I can’t post items to the AH that need to be repaired, why do I have to leave the AH and re-enter the game just to repair?

^^ This. Most annoying aspect thus far for me.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Salamok on May 21, 2012, 12:49:26 PM
It also feels like all of the dungeon crawl aspects of the game were made using the torchlight dev kit with a custom tile set, someone has some 'splainin to do.

I cant complain overly much though because I am enjoying it.  Part of me keeps thinking they redid the wrong Diablo though, maybe Diablo 4 will be Diablo 1 given the Diablo 3 treatment :drill:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Segoris on May 21, 2012, 12:51:07 PM
Error 3006
 :mob:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rendakor on May 21, 2012, 12:57:58 PM
I'll hazard a guess that the reason we're seeing items drop that are lower level than the mobs we're fighting is a holdover from WoW's item level (ilvl) system. Traditionally, items had a hidden ilvl and a visible required-to-use level. The issue is that the level required to use the item was always much lower; usually at least 5 levels lower. See examples here (http://www.wowhead.com/items=2.7?filter=minrl=5;maxrl=15).

Applying that to D3, say you kill Diablo in Normal who is level ~30. Assuming his loot table has a level range of something like 25-30 ilvl, you're going to see drops that require level 20-25. In a game without an AH this wouldn't be a huge deal, since the lower required level would just make twinking easier; however, the AH fucks everything up because if you use it, 90% of the time you're going to have better (higher level) gear than the content you're taking on. The easiest fix would be to increase the required levels to the ilvls, and tweak boss loot tables: instead of level 30 mobs dropping 25-30 gear, it should be more like 29-31.

This would decrease the need to use the AH for the best gear your character can use, since you would have a chance of getting something that you may need to wait a level or two for.The AH would remain useful for slots you don't get lucky on, but it wouldn't be the clearly superior way to gear up like it currently is.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on May 21, 2012, 01:33:29 PM
It’s missing some features that really should be there. Horde mode or an ‘endless dungeon/tower with ramping difficulty’ would have been great fits for the genre.

Didn't even think about alternate game modes until you mentioned it, but those are some great ideas. Just something interesting/different for end game content other than mindlessly running the same content over and over.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Furiously on May 21, 2012, 02:25:38 PM
The maps don't FEEL random.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Trippy on May 21, 2012, 02:26:58 PM
That's cause most of them aren't.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hoax on May 21, 2012, 04:13:21 PM
-Loot sounds are terrible. Reusing the amulet sound as all blue items. The fuck. No page drop sound. No gem drop sound. The fuck. Fix this shit.
-Bosses drop nothing when you kill them any time but the very first. Esp first time in later difficulties this is stupid.
-Too many big outside zones. I hated this in D2 and I hate it now. Perfect example the find the staff zone in Act1 and the find the blood zone in Act2. You spend so much time not fighting looking for this shit. Annoying.
-Honestly not enough gear variety visually but so far it hasn't seemed too WoW looking but its getting close.
-Too much fucking story going on in-game. FMV are nice, some are quite powerful and they can be easily skipped with esc. There are at least twice as many though I could do with only 20% of the current in-game acted out bullshit events with lots of talking and some really stupid in-game models moving around. That shit did nothing for me even on the first playthrough. Shame for a game we've waited this long for. In later runs its just plain fucking annoying. Should let us turn it all off once we hit NM.

 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 21, 2012, 05:06:04 PM

-Too much fucking story going on in-game. FMV are nice, some are quite powerful and they can be easily skipped with esc. There are at least twice as many though I could do with only 20% of the current in-game acted out bullshit events with lots of talking and some really stupid in-game models moving around. That shit did nothing for me even on the first playthrough. Shame for a game we've waited this long for. In later runs its just plain fucking annoying. Should let us turn it all off once we hit NM.

 

All your other points I agree on wholeheartedly but this? The story is already so light it might as well be hydrogen.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 21, 2012, 05:07:15 PM
Most of the dialogue scenes can be skipped by pressing space bar a few times as well. It's a non-issue for me.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Abelian75 on May 21, 2012, 05:17:53 PM
-Bosses drop nothing when you kill them any time but the very first. Esp first time in later difficulties this is stupid.

This one is truly bizarre.  I get the idea behind not making the game all about farming just the bosses, but yeah, why the hell don't you get the same "first kill" loot bonus in NM and beyond that you do for the first normal kill?  Is this just a bug or something?  I can't imagine the rationale behind not rewarding people for first boss kills on all difficulty levels.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 21, 2012, 05:33:42 PM
The maps don't FEEL random.

This is one of the tough parts about a fully 3d well realized dungeon.  I've done some Torchlight  mapping and it is a LOAD of work, and there is no real way to hide the fact that some chunks are repeating. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 21, 2012, 07:20:47 PM
It’s missing some features that really should be there. Horde mode or an ‘endless dungeon/tower with ramping difficulty’ would have been great fits for the genre.

I'd stab a rhinocerous for an endless dungeon mode.

Wasn't there a game recently that had an endless dungeon?  :grin:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Numtini on May 22, 2012, 04:09:16 AM
It’s missing some features that really should be there. Horde mode or an ‘endless dungeon/tower with ramping difficulty’ would have been great fits for the genre.

I'd stab a rhinocerous for an endless dungeon mode.

Wasn't there a game recently that had an endless dungeon?  :grin:

I'm not sure what Bliz's thing is that they love to see players repeat content endlessly rather than do random. See also running heroics in WoW vs. randomized "missions" a la COX/AO.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 22, 2012, 05:10:58 AM
The maps don't FEEL random.

This is one of the tough parts about a fully 3d well realized dungeon.  I've done some Torchlight  mapping and it is a LOAD of work, and there is no real way to hide the fact that some chunks are repeating. 
The irony is that I've been playing the hell out of the TL2 beta and while some of the one-off dungeons (the pirate cove) are relatively set in stone, the main areas and most of the other one-off dungeons are VERY random. D3 I only really notice sorta randomness in the samey dungeons like the barracks/keep areas in Act 3 and some of the tombs in act 2. Otherwise the overworld areas are as far as I can tell barely, barely randomized.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Quinton on May 22, 2012, 05:21:55 AM
I believe the only randomization in the overworld is which side-dungeons spawn off of a given overworld map, or where certain required dungeons spawn.

I really would love to see more nethack-quality (or later rougelike) random dungeons in a modern ARPG.

Also, hardcore mode would really benefit from a nethack-style tombstone summing up all of the character's accomplishments that people could view from your profile -- if data storage is a concern, perhaps the servers could only keep your last 10, plus up to 5 "favorite" tombstones or something like that.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 22, 2012, 05:26:56 AM
The more and more I level my barbarian(in hell now) the more items disappoint me.  Very few stats actually matter, actually that's not right only TWO stats matter, strength and vitality. Maybe int and dex to boost dodge/resists but all the superfluous stats like gold find or life leech, they all seem to pale in comparison to the point of uselessness.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 22, 2012, 05:36:13 AM
I think life leech is pretty much required for inferno isn't it?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 22, 2012, 07:02:56 AM
This is one of the tough parts about a fully 3d well realized dungeon.  I've done some Torchlight  mapping and it is a LOAD of work, and there is no real way to hide the fact that some chunks are repeating.  

POE does rather well. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcM9Ynfzll0)

It’s missing some features that really should be there. Horde mode or an ‘endless dungeon/tower with ramping difficulty’ would have been great fits for the genre.

See POE, and its variable rule set ability, its brilliant.


As to the loot, I'm of the notion, this is intended so you feed the RMAH. My entire time of playing this it feels like your highest level toon gets 1 out of 20 items for his level, the rest is great gear for lower level alts. Perfect formula to pump items through the RMAH and get that fee. D3 Feels like a purely profit motivated design, from taking advantage of its name, to its low production costs, to the lowering of its difficulty/complexity to a post-wow Diablo, to the systems in place in game. Its does not seem like a project of love for the series. Hell, we beat most D3 bosses in D1, and there is no ring drop sound.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2012, 07:18:58 AM
Did you write PoE or something? Who cares?

See, the good thing about loot being an issue early in a game like this is that it's easily fixable. This isn't game-breaking bug, or an engine issue, or a major gameplay fault. This is itemization. That's probably one of the easiest things to solve.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 22, 2012, 07:28:59 AM
Did you write PoE or something? Who cares?

It's a contemporary title, made by a smaller, less funded group. When talking about titles, people tend to bring up contemporary's as a comparison, especially when one is doing things better than another. In this context, the amount of effort being put into one as opposed to the other. One feels more like a creation of love for a genre, the other feels like a profit driven rehash with minimal effort placed in its creation.

D3 is barely randomized, thought there are a few "event" elements that change each time at creation ( that are cool ), but it does not seem to feature the randomization of past versions of the title.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2012, 07:32:09 AM
I don't feel that at all. I think you're reaching.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 22, 2012, 07:39:12 AM
I don't feel that at all. I think you're reaching.

Really?

Rather typical story.
Rehashed bosses.
Heavy reuse of small set of assets, like, extremely small.
Less complicated assets.
Barely randomized environments. Except for a handful of key "event" set pieces.
Loot system seemingly designed to feed the RMAH. ( High level toons getting loot for lower level ones )
Lack of things beloved from the original ( Ring sounds ETC.. )
Simplified skill system, with little downsides to any choice.
Simplified loot system, just stack damage.
Extremely short.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2012, 07:50:09 AM
Story - don't care. Torchlight had none.
Bosses - don't care. They are all loot pinatas anyway.
Assets - developer complaint. Don't care.
Randomization - I think it's a nice balance b/w TQ and Diablo 2
Loot system - fixable. In fact, easily so.
Sounds - again, fixable. Easily.
Skills - I like it better.
Short - I like it better with all the extra modes.

There. So to answer, yes really. You are reaching. I had no expectation of the loot system or the AH being perfect in the first month. That's always how economies develop.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Quinton on May 22, 2012, 07:53:32 AM
For all that, I'm still having fun and have sunk 40+ hours into the game so far.  I'm still running into new little events and things on the 10th time through some zones, I'm running into new types of monster abilities, etc, etc.  There's a lot here.

I think the "As to the loot, I'm of the notion, this is intended so you feed the RMAH." thing is maybe a liiiitle tinfoil hat over the top.  I really don't think the entire game is some cynical low-effort attempt to cash in via the RMAH.  I'm not sure I'd agree on "low production costs" either -- they put a lot of people on this thing for a long time, there's a huge investment in art, audio, other assets, etc.  I would totally accept an argument that you think they spent their money on the wrong things, but I think the whole it's cheaply done and a cynical attempt to turn the once-proud diablo franchise into a money making machine via RMAH thing is kinda absurd.

There's a lot of interesting stuff about POE and I'm really curious to see where it goes, but, while less random (which I think is a bummer), I really enjoy the look of the D3 zones a lot more.  And I enjoy the combat in D3 a lot more.  I'm hoping the POE people keep pushing it though.

I need to check out TL2 (I only poked at it for 30 minutes during the beta last weekend), but I strongly dislike the super-cartoony wow-like artstyle, so that's a bit of a turnoff.

The good news is there's a *lot* of ARPG stuff in the works this year, so hopefully we'll see some fun variety.  I'd love to see something with a bit more visual polish than POE but a lot more uneven and nethacky in the random dungeons, item powers, etc than D3.

Don't get me wrong, I've got a number of gripes with D3 and hope they make it better -- I strongly suspect they didn't actually have a good model for how the AH (RM or otherwise) would interact with the number of players and the loot system and would not be surprised if they adjust things to compensate a bit -- but I think it's still a pretty damn fun game.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 22, 2012, 07:56:17 AM
The only random dungeon difference I see between that video and D3 is that PoE uses smaller connector tiles to make hallways and tunnels different.  D3 uses almost entirely large block tiles to form it's dungeons.

I'm.. okay with both approaches? And yes, the "there was no effort put into Diablo 3" meme is just sheer fucking lunacy of the highest order. PoE, TL2, and D3 all have a shitload of work and effort going into them, with varied levels of monetary backing for said effort.

My random complaint would be that there are some gear tiering Walls around the starts of new acts where you're expected to double your damage/health really quickly. So if drops hate you, you're going to suffer and get one shot constantly. That gearing curve could be a lot smoother.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 22, 2012, 08:02:57 AM
If it wasn't for the fun with the wife (In the game chaps, keep it clean) I'd feel mightily ripped off.

Especially given Sunday lack of fun.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Quinton on May 22, 2012, 08:08:28 AM
My random complaint would be that there are some gear tiering Walls around the starts of new acts where you're expected to double your damage/health really quickly. So if drops hate you, you're going to suffer and get one shot constantly. That gearing curve could be a lot smoother.

I've found that the AH can easily and cheaply compensate for this, but I'm kinda annoyed by that -- maybe somewhat by the fact that I have to completely leave the game, which means losing progress if you haven't just hit a checkpoint, etc, and a little because I feel like there should be some middle ground between buying a pile of gear that massively kicks up your stats in seconds and farming until you get decent gear.  I have found that in 4 player parties with friends, trading gear around compensates quite a bit for this -- between four people getting drops and playing different classes, we seemed to be able to keep everyone outfitted pretty well.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Nebu on May 22, 2012, 08:13:17 AM
Story - don't care. Torchlight had none.
Bosses - don't care. They are all loot pinatas anyway.
Assets - developer complaint. Don't care.
Randomization - I think it's a nice balance b/w TQ and Diablo 2
Loot system - fixable. In fact, easily so.
Sounds - again, fixable. Easily.
Skills - I like it better.
Short - I like it better with all the extra modes.

I pretty much agree with this.  My only complaint is that this feels more like a $39 game than a $59 one.  I log on and play for 30 mins and then play something else (like WoT or Championship Manager).  It's so shallow that it's like playing solitaire with demons.  Still, I am enjoying it more than 1 or 2.  A LOT more.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2012, 08:17:19 AM
I will say that I don't think people should be able to post items with no buyout. It's ruining my AH searches. Bastards!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Quinton on May 22, 2012, 08:22:31 AM
Just search with a max buyout -- you won't see no-buyout items.  Generally I punch in 3k or 5k or something into max buyout, select a category, and select an interesting attribute or two and hit search.  If there are a crazy number of hits I bump the rarity up, increase the minimum value of the attribute(s), etc to narrow in on the best stuff.  I've found that really good stuff with a reasonably low buyout moves *really* fast.  Knowing what you want and being ready to push buyout now when you find it can help.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Shatter on May 22, 2012, 08:45:34 AM
Just search with a max buyout -- you won't see no-buyout items.  Generally I punch in 3k or 5k or something into max buyout, select a category, and select an interesting attribute or two and hit search.  If there are a crazy number of hits I bump the rarity up, increase the minimum value of the attribute(s), etc to narrow in on the best stuff.  I've found that really good stuff with a reasonably low buyout moves *really* fast.  Knowing what you want and being ready to push buyout now when you find it can help.

Fast is an understatement.  Ive lost count how many items I found that were really nice for cheap and hit the buyout and says its gone.   :tantrum:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Thrawn on May 22, 2012, 08:48:47 AM
Fast is an understatement.  Ive lost count how many items I found that were really nice for cheap and hit the buyout and says its gone.   :tantrum:

I'm still upset over an insanely underpriced rare ring (10% magic find, and str, and vit and damage for 10k) that I JUST missed last night.  I clicked buy, it hung and gave me a generic error message.  Then when I tired again it said it was sold.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on May 22, 2012, 08:57:54 AM
As to the loot, I'm of the notion, this is intended so you feed the RMAH. My entire time of playing this it feels like your highest level toon gets 1 out of 20 items for his level, the rest is great gear for lower level alts. Perfect formula to pump items through the RMAH and get that fee. D3 Feels like a purely profit motivated design, from taking advantage of its name, to its low production costs, to the lowering of its difficulty/complexity to a post-wow Diablo, to the systems in place in game. Its does not seem like a project of love for the series. Hell, we beat most D3 bosses in D1, and there is no ring drop sound.

Agreed. post-wow Diablo feels about right, I can only imagine what the old Blizzard North devs feel about the current state of 'their' game.:
http://www.diablowiki.net/Diablo_III:_Blizzard_North_version


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 22, 2012, 09:34:17 AM
Play Path of Exile
I'll check it out when it launches. Similar to TL2, it's not really a viable alternative to D3 until it's out.

Story - don't care. Torchlight had none.
Bosses - don't care. They are all loot pinatas anyway.
Loot system - fixable. In fact, easily so.
Sounds - again, fixable. Easily.
Short - I like it better with all the extra modes.

There. So to answer, yes really. You are reaching. I had no expectation of the loot system or the AH being perfect in the first month. That's always how economies develop.

I think a flagship game that has been in development for 11 years and wouldn't have budget constraints has slightly higher expectations that a game made by a small studio that launched at $20. The story and bosses are par for the course for the genre, but shouldn't they be they be better? None of the story or boss fights surpass what Blizzard was able to create in 2000.

The loot and sound are fixable. Hell, even ME3's story may be fixable with upcoming DLC. The question is whether they'll fix loot/sound quick enough for it to matter (while most of us are still playing) and whether their fix will actually be any good. After seeing the way damage trumps all other stats, and official Blizzard post that refuse to see a problem with loot, I'm not convinced the Diablo 3 team is capable of completely fixing the loot problems. They made lots of bad decisions with gear in D3, not simply oversights.

Here's a pretty amazing exchange on twitter with Jay Wilson (lead designer of D3)
Quote
Player: 1027.2 DPS 1hand MAGIC weapon on the AH. over 300 more DPS than the best, perfect Legendary 1h. Intended?
Jay: Legendaries are not automatically better than other items. Most are designed to be very good at a specific job.
Player: Apparently DPS not being one of those jobs.
Jay: However, I am getting lots of reports of weak legendaries. We will look into this.
Yes, I'm sure you're getting reports of weak legendaries because that's how you designed the game  :oh_i_see: Damage matters too much, other stats matter too little. Not every interesting.

Lastly, I wouldn't call the extra difficulties extra modes. There aren't even new boss attacks in the higher difficulties. More damage, more health, more trait combos on rares/champions. Nothing we didn't see in Diablo 2, nothing that is actually innovative. I'd have much rather gotten a different game mode (like horde/endless tower) than more difficulties.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 22, 2012, 09:40:04 AM
Can we stop with the 11 years Meme?  They discarded everything post-BN closing and we'll never know why.  Consider development having started 6 years ago.  Not that it makes a large difference but I'm that kind of semantics bastard.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 22, 2012, 09:59:43 AM
Considering Act 4, the only new Act setting, is lifted from the canceled BN D3, it's safe to say that some ideas BN worked on may have made it into the Diablo 3 we're playing.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 22, 2012, 10:01:40 AM
The legendaries are weak because a designer is going to try and make something that isn't just "set all best stats sliders to AWESOME", but the RNG has no such issue with creating something crazy. Same reason the Bosses are easier than a lot of Champs: game designers make something balanced. The RNG will happily just fuck you.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 22, 2012, 10:43:29 AM
The complaint about loot being deliberately weak for the RMAH is such silly nonsense.

Go back and play Diablo 2. Go kill Nightmare Mephisto. Marvel at the level 15 required green set sabatons you get.

Diablo has ALWAYS dropped a lot of lower level loot, it's part of the slot machine design that's been built in since day 1 of the first game. The problem with the game isn't that they have changed it to fit the auction House, it's that we were expecting an updated version of LoD and we got an updated version of vanilla Diablo 2. ALL the complaints about loot are exactly the same as we had in vanilla, including:

- uniques being useless
- sets being worthless and impossible to collect
- blues being far better than any other item

Am I happy with it? Absolutely not, and I hope they start adding in extra gear and update the legendaries ASAP. But let's not ascribe malice to something that is perfectly explainable and something they've already done before. I'm willing to bet a large amou t of money there's a whiteboard in blizzard for the expansion that has 'rune words, more sets, better legendaries' at the top of he list.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2012, 11:03:13 AM
So is this the time where I take up for Blizzard and Rokal shits on the game?

THE CIRCLE IS COMPLETE!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ragnoros on May 22, 2012, 11:04:53 AM
The complaint about loot being deliberately weak for the RMAH is such silly nonsense.

Go back and play Diablo 2. Go kill Nightmare Mephisto. Marvel at the level 15 required green set sabatons you get.

Diablo has ALWAYS dropped a lot of lower level loot, it's part of the slot machine design that's been built in since day 1 of the first game. The problem with the game isn't that they have changed it to fit the auction House, it's that we were expecting an updated version of LoD and we got an updated version of vanilla Diablo 2. ALL the complaints about loot are exactly the same as we had in vanilla, including:

- uniques being useless
- sets being worthless and impossible to collect
- blues being far better than any other item

Am I happy with it? Absolutely not, and I hope they start adding in extra gear and update the legendaries ASAP.
But let's not ascribe malice to something that is perfectly explainable and something they've already done before. I'm willing to bet a large amou t of money there's a whiteboard in blizzard for the expansion that has 'rune words, more sets, better legendaries' at the top of he list.

Thank you, I was about to post the exact same thing. This times infinity! Give me my fun to collect sets and uniques!
Not this BS.
Code:
Demon's Cage
Torso
Set Chest Armor
322–359 Armor
+41-45 Fire Resistance
+5 Random Magic Properties


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 22, 2012, 11:07:54 AM
Y'know... it's almost like they used the same Stat Budget tool code that WoW does, but forgot that they removed "add x-extra just for being purple/ legendary/whatever" from the formula.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 22, 2012, 11:36:20 AM
So is this the time where I take up for Blizzard and Rokal shits on the game?

THE CIRCLE IS COMPLETE!

I'll probably be asking for Jay Wilson to be fired before the week is out.  :heart:

I'm not angry, I'm just a bit disappointed by the game. It's merely good when it could have been great. None of Blizzard's recent output has been particularly impressive (D3, SC2, Cata). D3 and SC2 in particular don't seem to have any ambition besides being better versions of the originals.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: tazelbain on May 22, 2012, 11:38:58 AM
D3 and SC2 in particular don't seem to have any ambition besides being better monetized versions of the originals.
This is what bugs me the most.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 22, 2012, 11:40:02 AM
How is SC2 more monetized? Real question, I only ever played the single-player.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 22, 2012, 11:41:43 AM
They had planned on a big market for premium player-created maps, but I'm not sure that ever actually took off. I suppose you could also say that splitting the game into 3 parts was driven by money, though they continue to claim that it wasn't.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 22, 2012, 11:44:15 AM
Ah, that's right, the mod shop or whatever it was going to be. I don't really buy the '3 games' thing in particular since it isn't like Wings of Liberty had fewer single-player missions than SC1. If the content is thin in the next 2 that would be different, though.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hawkbit on May 22, 2012, 11:46:44 AM
I'm definitly not disappointed in D3, I'm having a riot.  I'll play the heck out of this game over the next few years, I'm sure.  However, there are quite a few little things that could have been fleshed out before it launched.  There were a lot of things learned from WoW and D2 that they modified and implemented in D3, but there were lots of other things they simply ignored.  

Again, the game is really good/great.  I'm hoping they continue development of features even though it launched.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 22, 2012, 11:50:28 AM
It's kind of an emperor has no clothes situation here. With a broken loot system there really isn't much at all to the game. The story is tacked on, the world is tiny and there's little depth in the combat system. Kiting seems like the only thing you can actually do tactics wise, and it's not much fun tbh.

edit: graphics and polish are top notch though, it's well worth going through the set pieces once.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2012, 12:15:46 PM
Honestly, at times I think I'm playing completely different games than you guys.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 22, 2012, 12:17:59 PM
Sets and Legendaries aren't as good as Rares. I agree this is kind of lame.

Clicking monsters to make them explode in a shower of loot is still awesome, and by my current enjoyment curve will remain awesome for some time.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 22, 2012, 01:22:42 PM
Honestly, at times I think I'm playing completely different games than you guys.

Welcome to my world.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rasix on May 22, 2012, 01:29:08 PM
Same boat.  I'm not finding a whole lot to complain about and having  fun. Then again, I'm only barely into Act III (with 2 characters).   Liking it a lot better than I liked D2. 



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on May 22, 2012, 01:31:50 PM
My views on the end game currently:

Part of the problem is your character stops progressing at 60. You reach 60 before Inferno. Therefore, the ONLY way to progress your character in any way whatsoever in Inferno is gear. That is it. In D2 you could reach Hell @ level 70 and continue progressing your character in 2 ways:

  • Leveling (skill points which lead directly to more damaging abilties, stat points)
  • Gear upgrades (more damage, more mitigation, USEFUL affixs such as crushing blow, pierce, etc)

Since skill damage was based on skill level, and for physical damage dealers it was based on skill level + weapon damage, you could get stronger just by playing and leveling and not even bring gear into the picture. Melee classes getting better skills, better weapons, more attack speed. Casters getting more damage skills, more cast speed.

This is absent from D3, in which leveling doesn't make your skills do any more damage (other than the 2 points you get into your main stat) and simply give you runes which may or may not make skills do more damage (in this regard I find the new skill system lacking). The 90% deciding factor in your skills damage is your weapons DPS... for all classes (don't get me stated on this lazy as fuck design decision). Stats make up the other 10%.

So what you're left with is level 60s that have zero way to make their hero better other than gear. The only gear that'll make their hero better is in Inferno. They can't do Inferno without either a cheeseball spec, kiting, or skipping over content. Additionally, the legendarys are sub par, with no useful affixes that may help in Inferno (no crushing blow, no piercing, no bleed, high life leech, nothing similar to D2) Since skill damage is almost entirely based on WEAPON DPS, you're left with weapons 100% worth being tied directly to all classes' DPS leaving no unique or interesting weapon decision other than "What does the most DPS?"
And in a that is why the end game is currently lacking.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 22, 2012, 01:38:55 PM
Don't get me wrong - am loving the game, will be playing it for some time and having a riot blowing things up. I suspect that the reason we don't have rune words and everything else is because they wanted content for the expansions and they also didn't want to overwhelm new players with a ton of different options.

They do need to increase the numbers of uniques and sets, up the drop rate and make them a bit better. They seem to have forgotten that getting low level sets & uniques was great for pushing you to alts and other builds.

(oh and putting legendaries and sets on the crafter is dumb. Massively reduces their rarety if you can mass produce them... ((and removes the fun of the drop!))


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 22, 2012, 01:51:38 PM
Lack of low level sets is pretty much my one loot gripe.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 22, 2012, 02:02:01 PM
I did not finish Diablo 2, not even on normal. I am actually intending to play through nightmare on at least two characters in Diablo 3. Diablo 3 wins.  :heart:


I still sort of wish they didn't change the rune system to a checkbox on my character sheet, but I am coming around to thinking it's probably better I don't have to depend on the RNG to unlock the version of a skill I really want. Although I still think it's fucking retarded the ferret companion rune for the DH is so goddamn late. It's a farming pet, don't make me wait until the late 40's to open it!  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 22, 2012, 02:09:25 PM
I love the fluidity of the skill rune system as a barb. It lets me transition between AE fights and boss fights, 2H fights and survival fights, with relative ease.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 22, 2012, 02:13:40 PM
I mostly like it for solo/group play. The build I like for soloing (I KITE U) is not really necessary when I'm in a group with Ingmar's witch doctor (he controls the mobs FOR me, essentially).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 22, 2012, 02:53:42 PM
...stuff...

You give D2 endgame way too much credit.  Leveling up at the high end was grinding Hell Cows or Hell Bloody Foothills for literally days of /played.  Loot farming was endless 5 minute boss rights most of which gave crap.  Now, don't get me wrong, I loved the hell out of Diablo 2, but saying that they really nailed the end game compared to D3 is just not true.  Blizzard will fix the itemization, and Inferno is a FAR more compelling mode from an actual gameplay standpoint than anything that existed in D2 endgame.  Yes, D3 has some flaws, but its far from unsalvageable.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tannhauser on May 22, 2012, 03:00:55 PM
I was another who didn't finish D2, but I'm in Act III of D3 and loving it.  Just a sheer pleasure to play.  The loot trivialization is my only big gripe.

Going to finish Normal and dip my toe higher up but will also unleash my altitis and play new classes.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: FieryBalrog on May 22, 2012, 06:19:37 PM
There are certainly a lot of rose colored goggles with regards to D2 and its endgame (there wasn't one) and its itemization (sucked for all of vanilla, was decent between 1.09 and 1.10, and sucked worse afterwards but was partially salvaged thanks to duping).

The loot issues are real and need to be fixed, but they've made a much, much better combat and action game than D2. Their primary issue with itemization right now is just variety, they need to make legendaries, sets and white items all matter more. Also weapon DPS is treated under budget by a lot.


POE does rather well. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcM9Ynfzll0)

See POE, and its variable rule set ability, its brilliant.

It's too bad the actual game sucks. GGG does not get what makes ARPGs fun, at all. Also the loot system is way, way more broken than in D3. They're small and they mean well and worked hard, but that's most of the credit I can give them, plus my $10.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: proudft on May 22, 2012, 06:25:00 PM
I was another who didn't finish D2, but I'm in Act III of D3 and loving it.  Just a sheer pleasure to play.

Yeah, my first foray into Act III, with stuff coming up the walls from every direction is up there as one of the most awesome computer game moments I've ever had.  I just got to it again on Nightmare to verify, and yep, still awesome.  

My only complaints are the same itemization ones everyone else has - weapon damage is too important relative to other stats, lower-level sets would be nice, sets & legendaries appear weaker than random rares, and some more (and useful, not junk) magical types of stuff would be nice.  But overall, not much to complain about except for my mouse-hand claw.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: FieryBalrog on May 22, 2012, 06:28:27 PM
Quote
With a broken loot system there really isn't much at all to the game.
It just depends on if the core is there, and I think it is. D2 vanilla itemization had basically the same mistakes as here, except more severe, in that virtually all uniques and set items were completely useless, and the best items in the game were rares and occasional blues.

D2 had some superior things going for it, like the imbue quest which I'm absolutely befuddled as to why D3 doesn't incorporate, as well as just being... more of a new thing at the time. Of course, most people who played D2 did not play it as a multi-year hobby, hell most people didn't even play it online. For those types of players D3 loot system works just fine. This isn't an MMO despite their shitty online DRM, most people aren't going to keep playing this for years and years. Some people are going to hear about that aspect of D2 and go in with those expectations and find that one play through of an ARPG is enough for them. Others are going to have enjoyed that aspect of D2 personally yet find D3 isn't giving them the same satisfaction. Those crowds exist, it's not so much a reflection on the game as it is simply inevitable.

The question is not if everyone is going to enjoy playing this as a multi-year hobby, but rather whether enough of a community will spring up around it that it can compare to D2 or SC:BW or SC2 or WoW. And I suspect that it will. Even if SC2 isn't everyone's cup of tea, it has managed to sustain a fairly large community in a genre that is almost entirely dead in the West, over 2 years, with no new content.

I think Blizzard's biggest failing in recent years isn't so much the quality of the games they've put out, which I think are fine or even great, it's the fact that they completely missed the MOBA thing that was right under their nose for years and years. That's just the cockiness and lethargy which comes with blowing up to be a large dominant corporation, and it's cost them hugely in dominance of the PC online space.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 22, 2012, 06:49:38 PM
The imbue quest sucked IMO - it was a one-time-per-difficulty thing so it trapped you into wasting it on your first character, etc. Much like the lack of respecs.

Crafting rares seems to fulfill the same kind of thing anyway.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 22, 2012, 06:52:33 PM
I finally have a complaint. I really don't like the AH gem interface. During primetime, it's tough to win an auction at any price.

Edit: The AH might be having problems generally. I had no trouble earlier, but getting all sorts of errors now.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Llyse on May 22, 2012, 07:17:31 PM
Quote
With a broken loot system there really isn't much at all to the game.
It just depends on if the core is there, and I think it is. D2 vanilla itemization had basically the same mistakes as here, except more severe, in that virtually all uniques and set items were completely useless, and the best items in the game were rares and occasional blues.


I was always under the impression that the best weapons were Hell uniques in D2 hence the trading currency was SOJs.

The imbue quest is cool and even though blacksmith crafting fulfills the same thing, the problem is blacksmithy requires gold investment while the imbue quest was a freebie and it would add a nice dimension of keeping your eye out of Superior/Masterwork whites for you to make into a rare once per difficulty.

I don't think it would imbalance the game/marketplace if each character got to imbue a white item of their choice while retaining the original white modifier. Not necessary but a nice freebie.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: FieryBalrog on May 22, 2012, 07:22:47 PM
Quote
With a broken loot system there really isn't much at all to the game.
It just depends on if the core is there, and I think it is. D2 vanilla itemization had basically the same mistakes as here, except more severe, in that virtually all uniques and set items were completely useless, and the best items in the game were rares and occasional blues.


I was always under the impression that the best weapons were Hell uniques in D2 hence the trading currency was SOJs.

Hell uniques didn't exist in vanilla D2. They were added in LoD, itemization was great in 1.09, and then the vast majority of hell uniques were obsoleted in 1.10, which made itemization shitty again and all about finding ludicrously rare high runes and abusing oskills. In fact D2 post 1.10 would have been a broken game without duping, there would have been like 3-4 enigmas TOTAL across a ladder season. It was mostly a broken game anyway, unless you really enjoyed an environment filled with duped-enigma-wearing paladin bots doing blessed hammer farm runs.
The imbue quest is cool and even though blacksmith crafting fulfills the same thing, the problem is blacksmithy requires gold investment while the imbue quest was a freebie and it would add a nice dimension of keeping your eye out of Superior/Masterwork whites for you to make into a rare once per difficulty.

I don't think it would imbalance the game/marketplace if each character got to imbue a white item of their choice while retaining the original white modifier. Not necessary but a nice freebie.
Yeah, the reason I want an imbue quest equivalent is because it makes you care about white items. Ditto runewords and multiple sockets, though I don't expect that till an expansion. Right now there is a whole gradation for white items that is entirely useless because all white items are entirely useless.

The biggest problem with itemization right now isn't even the power of legendaries/sets vs rares/blues, it's the dearth of the better mods from items. They did bring a lot of the cooler mods from D2 over, but they nerfed them too much for God knows what reason, and so they aren't present on enough items and aren't "big" enough (50% chance to freeze vs 3% in D3, for example). This problem is fixable, but it requires them to acknowledge that it is a problem. Also, weapon damage isn't properly budgeted.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Job601 on May 22, 2012, 07:24:50 PM
I remember major frustration in Diablo II from the low-level sets that you could never finish until you out-leveled them.  Blizzard got rid of that problem but didn't come up with a solution that didn't throw out the baby with the bathwater (how about crafted low-level sets?) 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: FieryBalrog on May 22, 2012, 07:31:17 PM
On the plus side, I can't think of a single Blizzard game that hasn't kind of sucked (not really, but in a relative sense) until the expansion came along. I just hope they don't take as long as they do with WoW/SC2, there is no esports to worry about here so how about a year and a half at most.

LoD for example drastically improved vanilla D2, it's too bad they shat on it with 1.10 a few years later.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Arinon on May 22, 2012, 08:32:46 PM
Love the game.  I've sunk way too many hours (days?) into it but short of expansions I doubt I'll come back to it again and again like I did Diablo 2.  It's mostly just the sum of little things:

  • I'm comparing this game to a patched LoD which is hardly fair.
  • The AH totally destroys the allure of acquiring loot 'legit'.
  • The execution required in Inferno just doesn't work that well with any sort of lag.
  • The loot affixes seem locked down pretty tight by slot so no stacking anything aside from main stat + vitality.

My initial take away is that Blizzard just doesn't want any of us colouring outside of the lines.  It's a very guided-tour style experience in service of class/game balance above all else.  Having said that it's time to go back and resume my second character's rise to 60!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Quinton on May 22, 2012, 09:33:17 PM
That's the thing though -- even with some annoyances it's pretty damn fun.  I can only assume they intend to improve it over time.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: FieryBalrog on May 22, 2012, 09:58:14 PM
I have a feeling the AH will start to cut both ways as more people use it to sell as well as buy. Eventually after all will have to fund AH purchases through finding rare items of your own.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 23, 2012, 02:37:45 AM
AH interface is seriously buggy.

Sometimes purchases don't go through (you get an Error 300 something). Sometimes the search function doesn't show anything and you can only reset it by leaving/rejoining the AH.

You can search for Armor value but not damage or dps, You can't sort search results (by iLvl preferred stat, buyout price or anything really)

No Add-In support so no price tracking and AH scan

Why didn't they use the current WoW AH implementation which is quite good feature wise


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 23, 2012, 02:47:31 AM
Loot is ridiculous. Enemies drop a shitload of blues/yellows most of which will never sell in the AH due to low iLvl or shitty luck of the draw regarding stats


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 23, 2012, 03:49:07 AM
Loot is ridiculous. Enemies drop a shitload of blues/yellows most of which will never sell in the AH due to low iLvl or shitty luck of the draw regarding stats

that's not ridiculous, that's how these games work. It's how these games have always worked, and it's the reason people still play Diablo 2 after all this time. On a fundamental level these games work like slot machines, and that relies on the big win feeling like a big win. The majority of items dropping not being very useful is completely fine and to be expected.

My gripe is that the best drops are rares not uniques and sets, and that there's a signifiant shortage of sets and uniques. I'd also like some of the more esoteric item mods brought back, and I think the class specific mods need improving because from what I have seen most are junk.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Numtini on May 23, 2012, 04:05:04 AM
It's ridiculous because of the Auction House, which completely changes how these games work.

And yes, the AH is very buggy. This morning I woke up and had three items that timed out during purchase last night. That's ok now, but good luck to them with the RMT AH.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 23, 2012, 04:47:14 AM
Meh, I'm indifferent and approach the AH the same way I do in WoW.  Great for offloading stuff you don't want to vendor but don't buy unless you can find deals.  It doesn't fundamentally change the game for me because, hey, I'm still leveling.  The focus is on gear at 60 - as expected in a multiplayer game with levels.  The trip doesn't matter, only the end.  Surprise.

My gripe is bad players right now.  It wasn't bad when I was playing 4-5 hours a night and staying ahead of the public.  I'm not a star player, but the last few days of public games have showed me that I'm definitely above average.   Had a barb and Wiz in a group last night that couldn't kill shit and liked standing right on top of the sprouts of those trees at the end of Act1.  :oh_i_see: 

And when I say couldn't kill shit, I mean the Wiz popped archon form once and then spent the entirety of their time in form trying to kill one tree.. and couldn't.  Meanwhile I was mopping up a pack of 2 trees and 4-5 goatmen.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: FieryBalrog on May 23, 2012, 06:24:37 AM
It's ridiculous because of the Auction House, which completely changes how these games work.

And yes, the AH is very buggy. This morning I woke up and had three items that timed out during purchase last night. That's ok now, but good luck to them with the RMT AH.
It changes loot acquisition during the lower and mid leveling process, which wasn't much of a thing for the previous Diablo games.

At the high end, you're going to have to MF farm to fund purchasing other top end gear, so it doesn't change that much from farming X high runes to trade for Y high runes. Or break out your credit card, which isn't a new thing either, though the volume of it will be new.

I do miss bartering.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 23, 2012, 06:33:49 AM
I like that game at face value, I really do but ...

The more I levelled my barbarian the less fun I started having.  Right about at hell I realized that long gone were the days of wading into packs of monsters with my halbred, leavnig showers of blood and gore in my wake.  Now it's all about sword and shield, being cautious, whittling away at enemy life and outlasting shit.  If I wanted to play a prot warrior I'd play wow.

Games should not get LESS fun the more you play them.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 23, 2012, 06:37:33 AM
I like playing my sword and board barb with my DH friend who can blow shit up after I stun, slow, and otherwise mess up their day. It's like a pvp approach to pve.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: FieryBalrog on May 23, 2012, 06:54:02 AM
Well now that they've started tweaking Inferno balance I'm hoping they give some attention to the barbarian.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on May 23, 2012, 06:57:12 AM
Blizzard 'balancing' Monks:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5271780011#1

Quote
We're in the process of removing the on-use benefits of the Mantra of Healing rune, Boon of Protection. The hotfix change is:

Amount of damage absorbed is now capped at the amount of healing provided by Mantra of Healing in the first 3 seconds after activation


We recommend discontinuing its use until the rune is replaced with a new rune and mechanic in a future patch.

Bashiok further down in the thread:

Quote
It's essentially being nerfed to the point of obsolescence until we can implement a new rune in its place in a future patch.

 :uhrr:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Thrawn on May 23, 2012, 07:24:37 AM
Just noticed another AH improvement that seems obvious that I would really, really like to see.  Saved searches.

Having a saved search for each of my slots would be a huge time saver.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 23, 2012, 07:25:56 AM
Monks are pretty ridiculous. I'm playing one.

Also, all things said, this game gets a B from me. I don't know if I'll be reinstalling/running D3 the same way I did D2. I'll probably poke into the higher difficulties a bit, roll another class or two through normal at best. The game doesn't have the same stickiness to me, and to be honest I don't have the aspergers required to enjoy the highest difficulty levels.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Threash on May 23, 2012, 07:27:59 AM
That wasn't the monk skill that needed fixing, the costs were prohibiting enough.  The one that fed you shit tons of spirit on crits was the one needing toning down.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 23, 2012, 07:32:25 AM
The wizard forums are reporting the 35% damage cap rune on Energy Armor is also no longer working as intended as of an hour ago. I'm curious if they're going to post full notes of whatever they pushed live anywhere obvious (I can't find anything but single posts on changes so far)

Smoke Screen for DH's has been changed to 1s invuln/3s cooldown 2s/3s runed to prevent chaining.

edit: looks like they plan on posting the notes tomorrow after the changes are already live? That seems a bit clownshoes to me. Right now it's a game of "guess why what you were doing 10 minutes ago doesn't work anymore!"


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 23, 2012, 07:40:57 AM
I like playing my sword and board barb with my DH friend who can blow shit up after I stun, slow, and otherwise mess up their day. It's like a pvp approach to pve.

Playing a prot warrior is fine if that what you want to play.  I wanted to play a barbarian.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Salamok on May 23, 2012, 08:41:47 AM
I feel like the AH is just another form of some of the gear hack mods in previous diablos.  For me Diablo 1 & 2 were extremely replayable until I decided to hack in the best gear.  Of course this usually happened when I was getting bored with the game anyway but once I had better gear than I was every going to find while playing, there quickly became no reason to play.

In other words I think by introducing the AH (a legitimate gear hack) into the game they have harmed it's replay value as getting gold is the only point of loot, they may as well have just changed all drops to gold and offered all items in the AH direct from blizzard as 1 big super vendor.

Is the AH available to Hard Core characters?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: FieryBalrog on May 23, 2012, 08:43:35 AM
There is a separate AH for HC chars, and no RMAH.

HC economy will be far superior due to smaller pool and items exiting. Too bad I don't want to play HC while their servers are still in debatable shape.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 23, 2012, 08:49:48 AM
Monks are pretty ridiculous. I'm playing one.

Also, all things said, this game gets a B from me. I don't know if I'll be reinstalling/running D3 the same way I did D2. I'll probably poke into the higher difficulties a bit, roll another class or two through normal at best. The game doesn't have the same stickiness to me, and to be honest I don't have the aspergers required to enjoy the highest difficulty levels.

Ok honestly question here. Do you still think you'll feel that way when D3 is on patch 1.8 a few years from now?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 23, 2012, 08:52:17 AM
By then it'll have an expansion or two. I'll likely buy the expansions and run a toon or two through them, then stop I imagine.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 23, 2012, 08:53:19 AM
Ok so you do feel it's worthy of expansion buying. That's at least a good sign in my book.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 23, 2012, 08:54:26 AM
So is this the time where I take up for Blizzard and Rokal shits on the game?

THE CIRCLE IS COMPLETE!

I'll probably be asking for Jay Wilson to be fired before the week is out.  :heart:

I'm not angry, I'm just a bit disappointed by the game. It's merely good when it could have been great. None of Blizzard's recent output has been particularly impressive (D3, SC2, Cata). D3 and SC2 in particular don't seem to have any ambition besides being better versions of the originals.

Fuck me, I'm in agreement with Rokal.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 23, 2012, 08:58:13 AM
Yeah, it's worth a playthrough at least. That's good.

I just don't think I'll be doing what I did with D2 where me and like 4-5 of my friends would run characters up into hell, then reroll new ones of different classes and do it again, and again, and again. Most of my RL friends are like me and plan on playing a couple characters through normal/part of nightmare until we get bored.

I'll be back for expansions, but how much more play they get out of me is highly dependent on the length/quality of the content or if they do stuff like add major new features or classes.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 23, 2012, 10:00:03 AM
Chase that dragon, the next hit will do it for you.

Or maybe things change, as do you.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Miasma on May 23, 2012, 10:23:31 AM
D3 is a much better game than D1 or D2, the reason it doesn't seem as good is that we have all aged ten years since then.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Furiously on May 23, 2012, 11:21:29 AM
Yeah, it's worth a playthrough at least. That's good.

I just don't think I'll be doing what I did with D2 where me and like 4-5 of my friends would run characters up into hell, then reroll new ones of different classes and do it again, and again, and again. Most of my RL friends are like me and plan on playing a couple characters through normal/part of nightmare until we get bored.

I'll be back for expansions, but how much more play they get out of me is highly dependent on the length/quality of the content or if they do stuff like add major new features or classes.

Well the ability to change your spec definately hurt that sort of thing. But I'm not sad.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: proudft on May 23, 2012, 11:28:15 AM
Since I started idly playing with the AH yesterday, alt-tabbing in and out from doing, like, work and stuff, I have a new complaint. It's broken about half the time.  I made about 350k from my 50k starting monies, but I could have made more, dammit! 

And now it's down again!    :mob:




Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Thrawn on May 23, 2012, 12:01:42 PM
Since I started idly playing with the AH yesterday, alt-tabbing in and out from doing, like, work and stuff, I have a new complaint. It's broken about half the time.  I made about 350k from my 50k starting monies, but I could have made more, dammit! 

And now it's down again!    :mob:

Wait until you wind up with all 10 slots occupied for 2 days, but all the auctions aren't actually visible to other people so they never sell.  The AH is pretty much a disaster as a whole right now due to how many issues it has. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sky on May 23, 2012, 12:19:12 PM
Just dropping by this subforum to point out that even in the robot jesus subforum the longest thread is the complaints thread. Ah, f13.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 23, 2012, 12:23:01 PM
This isn't the thread you are looking for.

/handwave


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Job601 on May 23, 2012, 12:25:59 PM
That wasn't the monk skill that needed fixing, the costs were prohibiting enough.  The one that fed you shit tons of spirit on crits was the one needing toning down.

Oh, they nerfed that too, don't worry.  (probably needed to be done.)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 23, 2012, 12:27:13 PM
D3 is a much better game than D1 or D2, the reason it doesn't seem as good is that we have all aged ten years since then.

So has the industry. A $60 game with nothing but a campaign and multiple difficulties is not even up to par for a game in 2012, not with the amount of competition out there and all the great ideas that have cropped up over the last 10 years. It's also not enough to say "the game isn't balanced well now, but neither was Diablo 2 until LoD." LoD showed that Blizzard learned what didn't work in Diablo 2 and fixed some of those problems. It's not acceptable that they've suddenly forgotten those lessons. People want extremely rare unique/legendary items to be worth using over garden-variety uncommons? Well no shit.

SWTOR doesn't get a free pass for lack of quest variety or missing features like dual-spec or a LFG tool even though WoW didn't add those things until multiple expansions later. Neither does Diablo 3 for having a broken loot model and nothing besides a campaign.

Sorry Diablo 3. It's not me, it's you.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 23, 2012, 12:32:20 PM
"nothing but a campaign and multiple difficulties" describes every non multiplayer only game every created. That seems like a half baked idea: what exactly makes D3 worse than everything else released in say, the last year?

Skyrim is a game with nothing but a campaign and multiple difficulties, for example. So is Hellgate: London.

The legendaries are stupid and under budget. The loot model itself is fundamentally sound, however. People are just upset that what they feel should be the best of the best can be topped by the RNG. I get it, but that does not somehow erase the rest of the system and give it a 0/10.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 23, 2012, 12:40:01 PM
Yeah,imsorryRokal but your post makes *zero* sense. It patently *is* you - which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that.

But Diablo has more gameplay and will last longer than almost every other PC game I've bought. The only others are Starcraft, work dof Warcraft and the various civ games over the last few years. 

Writing it off because all it has are a campaign and multiple difficulties is just plain wierd and nonsensical. Doesn't every game?

Oh, and it also has probably the best multiplayer system for playing with your friends I've ever seen in a game, which is fairly important.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Selby on May 23, 2012, 12:40:21 PM
People are just upset that what they feel should be the best of the best can be topped by the RNG. I get it, but that does not somehow erase the rest of the system and give it a 0/10.
Considering in original Diablo I the unique items paled in comparison compared to the random blue generated items except in a few off-the-beaten-path instances, nothing has changed here ;-)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 23, 2012, 12:43:18 PM

Skyrim is a game with nothing but a campaign and multiple difficulties, for example.


I disagree with what you said.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 23, 2012, 12:44:01 PM
"nothing but a campaign and multiple difficulties" describes every non multiplayer only game every created. That seems like a half baked idea: what exactly makes D3 worse than everything else released in say, the last year?

Skyrim is a game with nothing but a campaign and multiple difficulties, for example. So is Hellgate: London.
Skyrim has a main campaign and then there's hundreds of hours of shit you can do just fucking about in both structured quests AND just doing random shit. Also multiple "endings" so to speak.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 23, 2012, 12:45:24 PM
And yet I guarantee I will play more hours in Diablo 3 than I did in Skyrim, and I did more or less everything in Skyrim.

But the $60 value just isn't there guys.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 23, 2012, 12:46:55 PM
"nothing but a campaign and multiple difficulties" describes every non multiplayer only game every created. That seems like a half baked idea: what exactly makes D3 worse than everything else released in say, the last year?

Skyrim is a game with nothing but a campaign and multiple difficulties, for example. So is Hellgate: London.
Skyrim has a main campaign and then there's hundreds of hours of shit you can do just fucking about in both structured quests AND just doing random shit. Also multiple "endings" so to speak.

But distilled, it's still a campaign, some side events, and a difficulty selector: True or False?

I'm not saying Skyrim sucks, or D3 rules. I'm saying "It's a campaign and a difficulty setting!" is the most nonsensical attack on a video game ever. "It doesn't have ENOUGH content" would be a valid complaint.

edit: for clarity as to why the statement jumped out at me as WTF: usually "just a campaign and difficulty" is a charge leveled at games that lack multiplayer options. Because it makes no sense against a game with multi. "I think the content is boring" or "I think the gameplay design sucks" would be charges you could level and not immediately sound like you're a crazy person. I can totally see D3 not being your kind of game (though honestly, if you hate D3 with a passion and adore PoE and TL2.. I don't know what's wrong with you), I just can't see attacking it on it having a campaign and a difficulty setting.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 23, 2012, 12:57:05 PM
And yet I guarantee I will play more hours in Diablo 3 than I did in Skyrim, and I did more or less everything in Skyrim.

But the $60 value just isn't there guys.  :oh_i_see:
And I won't, so there isn't $60 to me.

But distilled, it's still a campaign, some side events, and a difficulty selector: True or False?

I'm not saying Skyrim sucks, or D3 rules. I'm saying "It's a campaign and a difficulty setting!" is the most nonsensical attack on a video game ever. "It doesn't have ENOUGH content" would be a valid complaint.

edit: for clarity as to why the statement jumped out at me as WTF: usually "just a campaign and difficulty" is a charge leveled at games that lack multiplayer options. Because it makes no sense against a game with multi. "I think the content is boring" or "I think the gameplay design sucks" would be charges you could level and not immediately sound like you're a crazy person. I can totally see D3 not being your kind of game (though honestly, if you hate D3 with a passion and adore PoE and TL2.. I don't know what's wrong with you), I just can't see attacking it on it having a campaign and a difficulty setting.
Saying "some" side content in reference to Skyrim is pretty laughable. You picked a bad game for comparison.

I don't hate D3. It's just definitely not a 10/10, 9/10, A+ title to me. It's a solid B, at best. I don't feel cheated, but I am honestly a bit disappointed.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 23, 2012, 01:06:14 PM
"nothing but a campaign and multiple difficulties" describes every non multiplayer only game every created.

It hardly even describes most games with a single-player campaign in the past year unless you're talking about Japanese games or games without any sort of budget. Skyrim has a notably lengthy campaign, what seems a like 800 side quests, and working mod tools coupled with an active modding community. If Skyrim had only the main campaign quests and 4 difficulties I wouldn't have thought much of it.

ME3 is a pretty good example of what most games look like these days. Single player campaign (preferably one that encourages replaying) combined with alternative game mode(s) to give the game extra life.

I doubt there are many Gears of War fans on these boards, but Gears 3 comes pretty close to delivering the 'complete package'.
-Decent length campaign with co-op enabled, multiple difficulties
-Horde mode
-Beast mode (horde mode in reverse, think L4D infected)
-Large variety of competitive multiplayer modes (4 or 5 of them?)

As the series went on over the course of 6 years they looked at what other games were doing, or what their game was lacking, and added more features and things to do. Relic did the same with the Dawn of War series, which is one of the reasons I enjoyed Dawn of War 2 more than SC2.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 23, 2012, 01:06:28 PM
I keep getting killed by lag in my single player game.

No Seriously, Fuck You.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Bann on May 23, 2012, 01:07:20 PM
More excited to go home and play Dragons Dogma or the Torchlight 2 beta then d3 right now. I think 3 or 4 years from now I'll have probably ended up playing diablo 3 much more then either of those but right now its just not clicking with me. I logically think its a really well done game. I just had been waiting on it for so long and its slightly off-tune from what I was hoping. I'm sure they will add more events, redo skills, and make the itemization more interesting. I'll stop looking for the game I wanted this to be and enjoy the game it is. Maybe it'll take till the season 4 Hardcore no AH ladder or whatever, but I'm just more excited about other stuff right now.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: naum on May 23, 2012, 01:27:31 PM
I keep getting killed by lag in my single player game.

No Seriously, Fuck You.


Been lag free until last night, when I noted some rubber-banding and time warping, almost led to a death…

…but yeah, lag in a "single player" game is way below average.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 23, 2012, 01:28:35 PM
Sorry Diablo 3. It's not me, it's you.

Of course it's you. It's your opinion, which lots and lots of people don't share.

Who made you the arbiter of what constitutes a Great Game?

You can be disappointed all you want but you can't proclaim failure or success. You aren't qualified.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on May 23, 2012, 01:37:39 PM
Lag on boss fights (Belial especially) and the fact that the game is down for maintenance every fucking night Aussie prime time gives this game a D for me. The number of friends I have who are no longer playing has plummeted.

Even if it was no-connection needed I doubt I'd rate it over a B-/C+. Item drops killed it completely for me - kill a boss and watch items that are only alt-worthy drop.

Blizzard dropped the ball on this game.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 23, 2012, 01:49:42 PM
You can be disappointed all you want but you can't proclaim failure or success. You aren't qualified.

The same goes for everyone on these forums, or most forums for that matter. Why are you posting again?

Quote
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

No shit. Welcome to the internet.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 23, 2012, 01:58:33 PM
I imagine most of us started posting because we liked computer games. More and more that doesn't seem to be the case with people, and I don't think it's the games.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 23, 2012, 02:06:30 PM
The same goes for everyone on these forums, or most forums for that matter. Why are you posting again?

Not really, since it's been proven before you have no idea what actually makes a Blizzard game good. So I think you go beyond "everyone else" to "dangerously unqualified" to have an opinion that's remotely important.

But that hasn't stopped you from trying. I admire that at times. It's almost Cal Ripkin like.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Job601 on May 23, 2012, 02:13:51 PM

Even if it was no-connection needed I doubt I'd rate it over a B-/C+. Item drops killed it completely for me - kill a boss and watch items that are only alt-worthy drop.

Blizzard dropped the ball on this game.

I just don't get this complaint -- this is the way loot has worked in every action rpg since forever.  You're never guaranteed an upgrade at any particular time, but you're guaranteed to find one eventually.  I guess it's true that if you don't like randomized loot, you won't like this game.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 23, 2012, 02:14:12 PM
If you think loot is where it needs to be, the game launched with the number of features it needed, and that the campaign is exactly what it needs to be, you're also entitled to your opinion.

My point was that my negative opinion is not just because I have aged 10 years. It's because Diablo hasn't. If I was 10 years younger and you handed Diablo 3 to teenage me, I'm sure I'd think it was great stuff. I'd probably also recognize that it was slim on features compared to other games I was playing, and that the loot system doesn't work great. As a AAA game in 2012 it is lacking.

Saying "we're too old to enjoy Diablo 3 the same way we enjoyed Diablo 2" is giving 3 a free pass for flaws it shouldn't have.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Nebu on May 23, 2012, 02:17:34 PM
I imagine most of us started posting because we liked computer games. More and more that doesn't seem to be the case with people, and I don't think it's the games.

I do think it is the games.  I primarily blame the publishers and investors more than I would ever fault the game designers.  With the lure of big $$$ comes the approach of trying to be all things to all people.  It has really watered down the experience that mainstream games bring. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 23, 2012, 02:25:30 PM
I imagine most of us started posting because we liked computer games. More and more that doesn't seem to be the case with people, and I don't think it's the games.

I do think it is the games.  I primarily blame the publishers and investors more than I would ever fault the game designers.  With the lure of big $$$ comes the approach of trying to be all things to all people.  It has really watered down the experience that mainstream games bring. 

It certainly isn't only the games though.  Go start a brand new D2: LoD untwinked character right now and play it alongside D3.  This isn't just an thought experiment actually.  My friend and I played through D2 (just normal difficulty) one last time in the weeks before D3 and let me tell you that D3 is a really superior experience in that respect.  Sure, the late game/end game stuff in D3 is iffy/needs work, but how many of us are really hitting that full bore already?

I'm not saying its just nostalgia either.  I think a big part of it is that we want games to make us feel the way they made us felt 10 years ago.  When Diablo 2 came out it felt like the greatest thing in the world.  Diablo 3, regardless of how good it is, isn't going to seem like the greatest thing in the world to a 30something, or even a mid-late 20something, even if they are an avid gamer. 

I should say though that I am playing the hell out Diablo 3 and loving pretty much every minute of it.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rasix on May 23, 2012, 02:26:13 PM
I imagine most of us started posting because we liked computer games. More and more that doesn't seem to be the case with people, and I don't think it's the games.

I do think it is the games.  I primarily blame the publishers and investors more than I would ever fault the game designers.  With the lure of big $$$ comes the approach of trying to be all things to all people.  It has really watered down the experience that mainstream games bring.  

I don't know, man, you admit to compulsively playing games you dislike.  

Maybe I've lost the ability to hyper critical of this crap, but I'm enjoying my gaming as much now as I did 15 years ago.  Granted, my sample size nowadays is a lot smaller and a lot more selective.  

I'm just not seeing the sharp knees.  I'm enjoying the shit out of this game and I really didn't like D2 at all and couldn't get into Titan Quest or Torchlight.  Shit, ARPGs have done nothing for me since D1.

Note: I'm not trying to discount the lag/locational issues some of you are having.  


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 23, 2012, 02:26:18 PM
I tend to agree with Ingmar here.  Games are still pretty much the same, it's us who are older.  You're never going to recapture the magic of your youth in gaming or your first time with a game you really loved.

You're just setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect it, particularly 10 years later.

Not that I'm saying the game's perfect.  It's at least a 7.5/ 10, though.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 23, 2012, 02:28:32 PM
Smoke Screen for DH's has been changed to 1s invuln/3s cooldown 2s/3s runed to prevent chaining.

Awwwwwww. I mean, I expected it, but not this fast. Dammit!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 23, 2012, 02:39:16 PM
Not that I'm saying the game's perfect.  It's at least a 7.5/ 10, though.

I'd also give it a solid 8. It's a good game. It's a better game than Diablo 2 even.

It's just not impressive for 2012 compared to other things I'm playing.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Nebu on May 23, 2012, 02:51:48 PM
I would give Diablo 3 a solid 8/10 as well.  The game is much more enjoyable than D2.  I just find that I can only take the game in short play sessions.  I felt the same way about SWTOR, which surprised me since I played the hell out of Rift and WAR.  I still enjoy games, I just find that I'm finding fewer games that really hit my sweet spot. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 23, 2012, 04:22:44 PM
I'd give the game a 9/10.

The multiplayer options are insanely improved, the game is much more fluid, it fits my need to smash shit into bloody pieces to watch the goodies fall out.

Goodies need improvement. That would make it a 10/10.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 23, 2012, 04:27:01 PM
Did they ever fix the damn templar shield bug? I've been not equipping his shield slot...


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 23, 2012, 04:28:06 PM
Yes, last week.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Amaron on May 23, 2012, 04:57:55 PM
http://www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/topic/224539-blizzard-did-you-even-test-inferno/
Quote
We purposely launched the game with Inferno being far more difficult than what we were able to progress in ourselves, assuming people would find it as difficult but with a few skilled players able to pull it off, or the difficulty would simply help root out problem skills and builds that allowed flaw-filled progression possibilities.

I think the main problem we're running into is people progress more or less linearly to Inferno, and the brick wall effect makes it seem like these broken skills were the correct way to overcome the difficulty because the belief is that Inferno must be an immediately surmountable challenge, which it isn't intended to be. Or the reverse, that because these skills allowed progression the classes that did not have them were too weak/broken, which isn't correct.

We'll provide a bit more info/context on Inferno tuning through an article we're working on for the front page.

Didn't think they'd actually admit they broke it on purpose.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tarami on May 23, 2012, 07:43:29 PM
It's not just Inferno. Inferno might be uncircumventably (!) impossible, but all difficulties essentially suffer from the RNG putting up a brickwall via the elite mob packs. The problem is aggravated the higher the difficulty, since elites get an increasing number of affixes, but even in normal you can get things like mortar + plagued. It just spikes difficulty through the roof for no good reason. That you can get multiple packs with different abilities simultaneously is just icing. (Then you get a single blue item for your ten minutes of world-class kiting.)

I'm in act 4 of Hell now and it throws so ridiculously between facerolling and soulcrushing that I have to wonder if they only ever tested normal difficulty.

Edit:
I know everyone knows this, but I needed to say SOMETHING, SOMEWHERE because fuck it in its ass.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Abelian75 on May 23, 2012, 08:47:53 PM
While I agree with most of the complaints being voiced here (legendary weirdness, lag issues, etc), and even find those things terribly annoying in some cases, as a whole I'd be crazy to pretend I don't love the game to a ridiculous degree.  I thought D2 was a great game, and I only ever played through the full campaign once (though I fiddled with it several times over the years).  In D3, I'm almost through Hell on my monk and about to start Nightmare on my Demon Hunter.  That is a whole lot of playing, and I suspect a great deal more will come.  It's pretty goddamn great.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on May 23, 2012, 09:15:49 PM
I thought once you unlocked them on one toon, you had the choice to play them on your other ones.

Did you actually think about that or just assume some autoleveled mobs which people hate? How would it work, in your mind? Once you unlocked it on one toon you could start a new toon in nightmare? Where they would be one hit splat by the first zombie snacking on a corpse on the road?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on May 23, 2012, 09:28:10 PM
(also, first time kills. Of bosses should ALWAYS have better loot on them, absolutely no idea why that stops after normal mode).

Ya, I'm ok with first time kills like it was in D2 where it was once per difficulty but this if fucking clown shoes retarded. I never heard this was their plan or I would have seriously thought about whether to buy the damn game or not.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: rk47 on May 23, 2012, 10:27:06 PM
You can be disappointed all you want but you can't proclaim failure or success. You aren't qualified.

The same goes for everyone on these forums, or most forums for that matter. Why are you posting again?


That's not the right question. The question is... what are the necessary qualification one has to achieve in order to declare a game as being a success or failure? The whole Diablo 3 fangasm has been pretty 'OK' so far on this forum, I'm nodding at some good and bad points and still withheld my purchase. But 'unqualified' to opine? What?



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rendakor on May 23, 2012, 11:42:10 PM
I just don't get this complaint -- this is the way loot has worked in every action rpg since forever.  You're never guaranteed an upgrade at any particular time, but you're guaranteed to find one eventually.  I guess it's true that if you don't like randomized loot, you won't like this game.
Except other ARPGs (I'm really just going to use D2 here) didn't have an AH to make access to good gear very easy. With no AH, even finding shit that's levels below you would eventually lead to an upgrade since drops are the primary (sole?) source of gear. However, the presence of an Auction House changes everything: since the level of loot obtained is always lower level than the player, it is rarely used by the player who obtains it and is instead listed on the AH. Combining this with a lack of soul-binding mechanic (or permanent gear degradation not that I'm encouraging either of these things) to make all gear infinitely reusable and the fact that most affixes are unimpressive, and you end up with a ton of gear on the AH for dirt cheap.

This leads to a situation where you can buy gear that's leaps and bounds more powerful than the drops your finding for very little money. In Normal you might be okay just ignoring the AH and using your drops, but in the higher difficulties that's simply not viable; you need the DPS and Vitality provided by level-appropriate equipment. In D2, you had to make due with what you found or try to trade for it (a much more difficult process than an AH, making self-farmed drops a viable alternative), particularly pre-endgame.

The crafting system (I mean Blacksmithing here, JC is fine) theoretically provides another avenue for gear, but the randomness of it and the relatively high gold cost make using the AH a simply better option. If crafting only took mats and not gold, at least you'd be recycling your drops into potentially more useful drops; the gold cost just makes it so you're screwing yourself over by crafting instead of just vendoring your blues and using the AH. Alternatively, if crafting was much more expensive (in terms of mats and/or gold) but let you have some control over the stats/affixes it would at least have its uses.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 24, 2012, 12:23:46 AM
The monk apparently makes me click WAY WAY WAY more than wizard or DH, because my hand hurts after playing one for a while this evening.  :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on May 24, 2012, 12:24:43 AM

Even if it was no-connection needed I doubt I'd rate it over a B-/C+. Item drops killed it completely for me - kill a boss and watch items that are only alt-worthy drop.

Blizzard dropped the ball on this game.

I just don't get this complaint -- this is the way loot has worked in every action rpg since forever.  You're never guaranteed an upgrade at any particular time, but you're guaranteed to find one eventually.  I guess it's true that if you don't like randomized loot, you won't like this game.

What's not to get? I don't care about itemisation on loot, but I do care if I need to be a certain character level to kill a boss only to have loot drop that is 5-6 clevels LOWER than that required level (and is generally shit/lower level) compared to the random blue drops that I used to get that kill. It's not about the random itemisation, it's about the fact that the gear is useless.

Example: My DH does a Butcher kill and Butcher drops a hand-xbow that is 5 levels lower than the shit that dropped off trash and can't compare to what I'm using as while it's stats are nice, they are superseded. It would be nice to be surprised by a piece of loot I can actually use if it fits my class.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 24, 2012, 12:33:30 AM
I'm finding that AH twinking is not really a lot better than just self-twinking by saving drops I got from my first character through. (Which is of course what we all did in D2.)

The only thing where it really seems out of whack is gem prices, and even this probably wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the socketed-weapon-ruby effect.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Llyse on May 24, 2012, 12:45:41 AM
I'm finding that AH twinking is not really a lot better than just self-twinking by saving drops I got from my first character through. (Which is of course what we all did in D2.)

The only thing where it really seems out of whack is gem prices, and even this probably wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the socketed-weapon-ruby effect.

The other problem is that upgrading gems costs money which is ridiculous when the upgrading cost is higher than the AH price... they should just make upgrading gems free...


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on May 24, 2012, 12:59:50 AM
I'm finding that AH twinking is not really a lot better than just self-twinking by saving drops I got from my first character through.

"Self-twinking" means having to have a second character who is below the level of your first character, and is still gated by the progress on your main character.

AH "twinking" is limited by the level of the single highest character in the entire game, and only requires that there be at least one player in the world at a higher level than you.

It's a major design issue to have a game centered around loot drops where the drops are mostly lame compared to what you can buy. And it's a hard problem to solve. In a game like this where almost every creature you kill drops some loot there is never going to be a scarcity of items that aren't good enough to bother equipping yourself but are really good for someone lower. It seems like the main "fix" is to use willpower and artificially make the game more fun and difficult by not using the auction house. It seems like the most fun way to play the game (for many people at least) is to refuse to use one of the major new systems.

Thought experiment: If there was a set of servers you could join that had no AH how popular do you think that would be? My guess is at least reasonably popular. If you give players the tools to gimp their own fun many players will do that, knowing full well that's what they are doing.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 24, 2012, 01:05:33 AM
I'm finding that AH twinking is not really a lot better than just self-twinking by saving drops I got from my first character through. (Which is of course what we all did in D2.)

The only thing where it really seems out of whack is gem prices, and even this probably wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the socketed-weapon-ruby effect.

The other problem is that upgrading gems costs money which is ridiculous when the upgrading cost is higher than the AH price... they should just make upgrading gems free...

Up until radiant squares that is, at which point the cost suddenly shoots up to 80K a game on the Euro servers. Am hoping that the cost to transmute perfect to radiant isn't higher than that.

Was disappointed to find its literally triple the cost to make squares and perfect squad though than buy them off the AH, but then all crafting seems broken that way. They've  said they are looking into it.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on May 24, 2012, 01:10:04 AM
Quote
The story is tacked on, the world is tiny and there's little depth in the combat system. Kiting seems like the only thing you can actually do tactics wise, and it's not much fun tbh.

A lot of games suffer from the problem of when you crank up the difficulty the best way to play the game is very tedious or exploity. Especially games where the skill of the player isn't the hugely overwhelming factor. Ideally what you want is when the difficulty goes up the best way to play the game is to kick ass and take names, get great at the game systems, and basically play the game the same way as before only cranked to 11 in terms of execution. But usually what happens is you exploit terrain or invincible frames or kite or do something like that.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on May 24, 2012, 01:34:46 AM
One other thing, about people being old and jaded and such. It's undeniable that D3 has a lot of problems, both technical and design, and that Blizzard of late has been very conservative in terms of game design. And while a lot of people say "Blizzard always just takes existing concepts and polishes them rather than innovating" I don't think that's really true until you get past Warcraft 3. Starcraft was not a complete revolution in design but it was in no way conservative either. Warcraft 3 was different from Warcraft 2 in some very fundamental ways. It's only in the post-WoW era that Blizzard games can accurately be called modernizations of older games.

A lot of that is probably because a lot of people working at Blizzard now are Blizzard fans - rather than making a great new game they love Starcraft or Diablo and want to make one of those. That's not some sort of cynical bean-counter thing, it's just that people who really love some older game are often perfectly happy recreating it rather than making something bolder.

For a $60 game D3 feels a little thin. That's coming from someone who paid more than $60 for some SNES games with his own paper route money. (Phantasy Star 4 for Genesis cost 100 dollars!!) But times have changed and the market has bifurcated - you either have a game that is $60 (and actually $70+) with a ton of production value and modes or, especially on the PC, you have a game that is heavily discounted. That said personally I get annoyed at "this doesn't feel like a $60 game" talk and I'll gladly pay $60 dollars for a fun game that feels like a $30 game (whatever that means) than $30 for some bombastic bore that feels $60. But, just given where the market is at right now, I think it's fair to say that were the game called something other than Diablo 3 and came from a company other than Blizzard most people would expect it to be heavily discounted quickly.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 24, 2012, 01:52:28 AM
I agree with a lot of that.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 24, 2012, 02:08:16 AM
Um, I presume you aren't including World of Warcraft in your anology there. That game innovated more than any other post Ultima MMO except EVE and EQ I would suggest, and certainly was a lot more than a "polished" EQ.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on May 24, 2012, 02:32:38 AM
This gets totally offtopic, and I apologize.

But huh?

I adored WoW, but how was it a lot more than a polished EQ? It was the concept of the Diku honed to perfection. But what was the innovation beyond that?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 24, 2012, 03:30:32 AM
Erm, it completely rewrote how the genre works?

Questing to max level?
Viable soloing for all classes?
Random drops off all mobs?
Moddable interface?
Completely redesigned the raid paradigm? (go play PoP or GoD and then run Onyxia)
Scaling damage for casters?
Talent specs? (and Respeccing!)
Complete removal of camping?
Dungeon crawls?
Fully instanced content?

From the major changes they made, to the minor ones (social animations and a working AH!), WoW was actually a really innovative and brave game. Before launch people were convinced that a lot of the above changes would lead to the game having a really short lifespan and lack stickyness. Hell, even 2 years later designers were calling WoW a 'beer and popcorn game' that people wouldn't stick with.

I never understand why people say WoW was just a polished EQ, and it does leave me wondering if people actually played EQ. I did for years, I raid led in EQ for years, and to say WoW is just a polished version of that is to ignore the massive fundamental changes it made to the genre - changes which have since become the standard for every other MMO. Unlike EQ for example.

People who say WoW was just EQ+ seem to have completely forgotten what the MMO market was like at the time, what other MMOs looked like, and the fact that it was generally believed that 450K subscriptions was the max for any online MMO. WoW rewrote the book.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Falconeer on May 24, 2012, 04:07:43 AM
I think it's undeniable that Diablo 3 is lots and lots of fun. I feel it's pointless to respond to criticism by saying "whatever, I'm having lots of fun!". Damn, the game was released 9 days ago. If you weren't having lots of fun after 9 days this would be an epic disaster.

No, the real question is: does it have longevity? Using your experience with Diablo 2 to answer that question is, in my opinion, a mistake. That was 8 to 12 years younger You. Not just that, the industry was different and, in a way, there were less instant fun games competing with it. The Diablos drilled a hole in the fiber of our gaming habits and blissfully filled it at the same time. It's not like that anymore, there's plenty of other perfectly exectued and greatly entertaining things to play, ARPG but not just.
Also, to evaluate based on the fun you are having now sounds more like proposing to the girl/boy you just met 9 days ago cause "I'll never get bored of you!". Crushes are not to be trusted.

As the game is now, I see no longevity in this. Lots here didn't hit the broken-loot wall yet, so it's easy to say "oh I don't care". What you should probably say is "I hope they'll fix it before I get there". Same for additional modes, PvP, ladder, etc. and other fixes. Hope they implement them before you realize that you are not 22 anymore and you have been going through the same identical stuff at the same identical pace for a couple of months.

It's an awesome game. I am one of those that is certainly having more fun that I had with Diablo 2, and I didn't think it was possible. But feels more like a casual game to me than one with any kind of staying power at the moment.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 24, 2012, 04:22:48 AM
I think that's one of the main reasons behind the always online aspect tone honest. It's going to be the social stuff and playing in groups which keeps thegame going, and they've clearly invested a huge amount of time and money into that. It probably has the best grouping options I've seen in a game pulpy because its so fast and convenient.

Whether or not that will work is still to be seen. (agree completely with you regarding itemisation, and would also add they need to fixit at lower levels as well. People need sets and uniques at the lower levels to push the to play more and play alts. The current system completely lacks that.

Example - on Diablo 2, I killed Diablo first with my amazon, and a Tarn helm dropped. It completely blew my mind that you could get items which increased all your skills at once, and immediately pushed me into nightmare mode to find more - and to roll a sorceress alt to use the helm. In Diablo 3 i got one blue magic item which was a slight upgrade and two rares which looked exactly the same as everything else.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on May 24, 2012, 04:44:24 AM
Let just agree to disagree on WoW, Maledict. One mans innovation is another mans iteration. Nothing you mentioned is anything put polishing proven concepts.

On Diablo3, I think the problem here really seems to be the AH. If you play the game without it, the items that drop are upgrades. Also, the people already can see what awaits them in the future and the sense of wonder is gone.

Legendaries and Sets need to be improved. Plus, most stats being next to useless was a bad idea as well. I don't see the fun lasting all that long, and a "Gotta catch them all" is missing as well. Not many people will play this in two years.

But the next few weeks/months will be an awesome ride.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rendakor on May 24, 2012, 04:46:38 AM
It's a major design issue to have a game centered around loot drops where the drops are mostly lame compared to what you can buy. And it's a hard problem to solve. In a game like this where almost every creature you kill drops some loot there is never going to be a scarcity of items that aren't good enough to bother equipping yourself but are really good for someone lower. It seems like the main "fix" is to use willpower and artificially make the game more fun and difficult by not using the auction house. It seems like the most fun way to play the game (for many people at least) is to refuse to use one of the major new systems.
The easiest fix would be to increase the required level for items dropped by mobs, either by actually making mobs drop higher level loot or by simply making items require higher levels (although the latter would be messier as it would also constitute a nerf). The problem isn't "mobs drop too many items" it's "level 30 mobs drop level 25 loot". The ideal situation would have mobs dropping things that are as much as 1-2 levels higher than themselves, to allow you save something and actually level up into it; as it stands it's rarely even worth keeping something for an alt because the actual itemization is pretty unimpressive and thus there really aren't many exceptional items.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 24, 2012, 05:47:33 AM
It's an awesome game. I am one of those that is certainly having more fun that I had with Diablo 2, and I didn't think it was possible. But feels more like a casual game to me than one with any kind of staying power at the moment.

Games are meant to be casual.  The "Golden Age" of games being played obsessively for hours on end before you even complete them is dead and gone and we're better for it.  This is what the genre is now.  Blame consoles, blame people without Autism spectrum flavors getting in to games, blame the phase of the moon or your own 'old' age. 

In the end it doesn't matter and it has to be evaluated for the time period it's created within.  For that it's a good game with some flaws.

I label the AH as a flaw, yes.  However in this day and age it's going to be there somehow.  The folks who pointed that out when I first started bitching about an RMT AH are correct.  You can't uncork that bottle, only attempt to control the flow and internalize that revenue. That's a problem created by the players, not the game devs.

Games no longer have a sense of discovery. They never will again.  It's just not going to happen unless YOU, the player, choose to ignore outside information and the internet.  Again, not a problem created by the game devs and I wouldn't count that as a flaw just a fact of the age.

Connectivity is a huge issue.  If this is how you're going to control pirating you'd better have a solid hardware base. They don't.  That's a flaw of the game and a failure of the game company. 

The skill system is a boon and a benefit.  I'm kind of tired of seeing whines about it.  Talent points are old and tired these days.  Particularly with a persistent game that's always patched to the latest version.  You're going to have to have a way to change builds or force everyone to level up new characters to do the same cookie cutter builds that are now viable.  What's that you say, add respecs?  Hey, guess what the system in place is.

The item system is kind of fucked up.  You should be getting even-level drops from the mobs you're killing, not below-level.  Just dumb but at least it's fixable.

Bosses are terrible.  That's a huge flaw. They're not even as difficult as WOW bosses and those aren't terribly hard themselves.  Diablo was the only one I really had a rough time with and that was disappointing.  On normal mode, in a party of 4, most bosses just melted.  That's not fun or entertaining, that's just a silly one-time yellow with some terrible story attached.

The story was mediocre at best.  I expected better, but maybe I'm just too old and sophisticated for game stories now.  I recall my parents ripping apart things I thought were awesome in my youth and thinking they were crazy.  Then I got older and watched them again and saw my parent's point.  Probably the case here as well and I should just stop expecting anything but tripe.  I'm sure I'd think it were awesome if I were 17-20 once again.

 
Let just agree to disagree on WoW, Maledict. One mans innovation is another mans iteration. Nothing you mentioned is anything put polishing proven concepts.
:roll:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: amiable on May 24, 2012, 06:11:21 AM
Repost from the hardcore thread, but I am going to post it here as well because it really annoys me:

"Dear Blizzard,

I understand you want to hotfix nerfs into the game because folks are beating  the game too fast, and you were all like "no one will ever beat our super hard game" during your press tour.  But if you are going to be lazy about it and not update the tooltips you have a minimum responsibility to let people know on the splash screen that some changes have been made you should be aware of.  I shouldn't be required to scan the forums every time I play to see how my defensive abilities have changed.  

RIP level 22 Demon hunter whose smokesceen tooltip still says it lasts 2 seconds. "


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 24, 2012, 06:16:16 AM
So on the drop system, as I plod through hell:

I have a feeling they adjusted the leveling curve at some point and didn't match the drops to it. In Normal and most of NM, the beginning of normal I got drops I couldn't use yet due to level. Past act 1 that turned to always getting drops 3-5 levels below me. This continued until Act 4 NM, where I started getting things a level above me, and Hell I've started getting things -1 to +5 of my level.

It's just screaming to me that they mucked with the leveling curve a bit, and forgot to change the item drop levels when they did it. I'm constantly finding useful things in Hell, which I never found before then.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: SurfD on May 24, 2012, 06:35:54 AM
So on the drop system, as I plod through hell:

I have a feeling they adjusted the leveling curve at some point and didn't match the drops to it. In Normal and most of NM, the beginning of normal I got drops I couldn't use yet due to level. Past act 1 that turned to always getting drops 3-5 levels below me. This continued until Act 4 NM, where I started getting things a level above me, and Hell I've started getting things -1 to +5 of my level.

It's just screaming to me that they mucked with the leveling curve a bit, and forgot to change the item drop levels when they did it. I'm constantly finding useful things in Hell, which I never found before then.
That probably depends on how fast you level through stuff.  And if youwent back and farmed "older" contend for things like the mat drops for the Staff of Hearding on the same toon, or backtracked entrie sections of an act repeatedly cause you were playing with friends.

There is probably a fairly wide range of levels people could be when reaching any given point, like say act 4 nightmare.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 24, 2012, 06:40:05 AM
One other thing, about people being old and jaded and such. It's undeniable that D3 has a lot of problems, both technical and design, and that Blizzard of late has been very conservative in terms of game design. And while a lot of people say "Blizzard always just takes existing concepts and polishes them rather than innovating" I don't think that's really true until you get past Warcraft 3. Starcraft was not a complete revolution in design but it was in no way conservative either. Warcraft 3 was different from Warcraft 2 in some very fundamental ways. It's only in the post-WoW era that Blizzard games can accurately be called modernizations of older games.

A lot of that is probably because a lot of people working at Blizzard now are Blizzard fans - rather than making a great new game they love Starcraft or Diablo and want to make one of those. That's not some sort of cynical bean-counter thing, it's just that people who really love some older game are often perfectly happy recreating it rather than making something bolder.

For a $60 game D3 feels a little thin. That's coming from someone who paid more than $60 for some SNES games with his own paper route money. (Phantasy Star 4 for Genesis cost 100 dollars!!) But times have changed and the market has bifurcated - you either have a game that is $60 (and actually $70+) with a ton of production value and modes or, especially on the PC, you have a game that is heavily discounted. That said personally I get annoyed at "this doesn't feel like a $60 game" talk and I'll gladly pay $60 dollars for a fun game that feels like a $30 game (whatever that means) than $30 for some bombastic bore that feels $60. But, just given where the market is at right now, I think it's fair to say that were the game called something other than Diablo 3 and came from a company other than Blizzard most people would expect it to be heavily discounted quickly.

+1


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Salamok on May 24, 2012, 06:47:45 AM
I like how when the AH came back up and the expiration timers have been going the entire time it was down, oh except for it wouldn't let stuff expire while it was down so when it finally came back up a ton of items had less than 5 minutes left.  This led to a shopping frenzy of the first few people back in placing low bids on a ton of stuff with pretty much zero competition.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 24, 2012, 07:01:43 AM
So on the drop system, as I plod through hell:

I have a feeling they adjusted the leveling curve at some point and didn't match the drops to it. In Normal and most of NM, the beginning of normal I got drops I couldn't use yet due to level. Past act 1 that turned to always getting drops 3-5 levels below me. This continued until Act 4 NM, where I started getting things a level above me, and Hell I've started getting things -1 to +5 of my level.

It's just screaming to me that they mucked with the leveling curve a bit, and forgot to change the item drop levels when they did it. I'm constantly finding useful things in Hell, which I never found before then.
That probably depends on how fast you level through stuff.  And if youwent back and farmed "older" contend for things like the mat drops for the Staff of Hearding on the same toon, or backtracked entrie sections of an act repeatedly cause you were playing with friends.

There is probably a fairly wide range of levels people could be when reaching any given point, like say act 4 nightmare.

If you're chain farming things though, you should expect to outlevel drops and NPCs for a bit until you get back to where you should be.

Level 50/51 to start Hell is pretty much normal, same with being ~30-32 to start NM. Being overlevel isn't the issue with drops. It's being on-level, and a level 40 boss dropping level 30 loot. If a 40 boss drops 40 loot, it's appropriate regardless of character level.

My commentary is mostly just that for whatever reason, 50 bosses appear to be dropping 48-55 loot, which seem s right. But prior to that, the loot level distribution is a bit stupid.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 24, 2012, 07:11:26 AM
By Act 3 in NM i was getting level appropriate get for my 46 Barb.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 24, 2012, 08:30:31 AM
In Diablo 2 almost everything you got was totally useless.  This is also true in Diablo 3.  I don't see how anything is changed here.  Even the high end boss runs in Diablo 2 gave you vendor crap the huge majority of the time.  Yes, end games unique and sets need to be buffed, but I don't really see a drastic different in the leveling/loot experience between DIablo 2 and Diablo 3.  Almost everything is crap in both games, in Diablo 3 they make it easier to distribute the actual good stuff among people who actually can use it (via AH).  I honestly don't see it as a problem.

I'm not sure if it is a case of people remembering D2 differently than me, or if perhaps people didn't play D2 online/take part in the in game economy?  Trading was common place, I got FAR more of the high end items I used on all my characters through trading than I ever did through drops. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 24, 2012, 09:33:40 AM
In Diablo 2 almost everything you got was totally useless.  This is also true in Diablo 3.  I don't see how anything is changed here.  Even the high end boss runs in Diablo 2 gave you vendor crap the huge majority of the time.  Yes, end games unique and sets need to be buffed, but I don't really see a drastic different in the leveling/loot experience between DIablo 2 and Diablo 3.  Almost everything is crap in both games, in Diablo 3 they make it easier to distribute the actual good stuff among people who actually can use it (via AH).  I honestly don't see it as a problem.

I'm not sure if it is a case of people remembering D2 differently than me, or if perhaps people didn't play D2 online/take part in the in game economy?  Trading was common place, I got FAR more of the high end items I used on all my characters through trading than I ever did through drops. 

This is exactly  it - similar to what I said earlier.

Diablo has always dropped items lower than your level most of the time. It's part of how the randomisation works. Unlike games like WoW where mobs drop specific level range gear, mobs in Diablo can drop gear 10 levels below your level or higher than your level - its all how the dice roll.

What the AH has done is remove most of the barriers to accessing level appropriate gear.  In Diablo 2 you could do exactly the same butit just wasnt worth it due to the hoops you had to go through. By contrast in D3 you can, so people do use it and think the old system broken. Im sure somewhere theres an economics paper that could be written on the Diablo 3 AH.

Because that gear exists on the AH, and because it says your level on it not 5 levels below, and because the acts get tougher in difficulty, people think you need that gear to progress. You flat out don't - but buying gear is more fun to folks than farming act 4 for a while before progressing to the next difficulty. (or using alts and exchanging items between them to gear up).

Maybe putting Nephalim valour in for lower level characters would have been a better solution after all.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 24, 2012, 10:00:56 AM
NV for all levels would have been nice, just as a reinforcement/reward for sticking with a build and not skipping content.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 24, 2012, 11:17:32 AM
I got to Diablo, found out that my drops had been so abysmal that I needed to AH even on Normal. Killed Diablo, he dropped a level 17 crossbow, worse than the one I couldn't kill him with. GREAT. I AM SO STOKED. NOT.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 24, 2012, 11:23:50 AM
Normal drops are by far the most offensive in terms of level gap. It's nowhere near as bad in NM I've found.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 24, 2012, 11:44:00 AM
Luckily normal mode (your first kill) is also the only time bosses shower you with loot.   :oh_i_see:

I'm about half way done Act 2 of NM, but the majority of items I got so far were under-level. I know this because I barely got any Nightmare crafting mats from shredding all my act 1 loot, which means the vast majority of it was under level 30.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 24, 2012, 11:58:09 AM
Yeah, feels kind of shitty that you have to go to the AH and buy someone's smelly old crossbow that still has the dude's gems in it. What happened Blizzard? Is the AH the loot system now?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on May 24, 2012, 01:02:10 PM
In Diablo 2 almost everything you got was totally useless.  This is also true in Diablo 3.  I don't see how anything is changed here

What's changed is in Diablo 2 there was not a very simple way to get stuff better than the majority of the useless drops.

I think you overestimate how many people participated in the D2 economy. A lot of people played the game alone or with friends, or if they traded with strangers did so very haphazardly. There's something thrilling about getting a pretty good item that in your corner of the world is awesome. A thrill that is removed when your world expands.

I played D2 a couple years ago, I got some sort of lighting/ice dual weapon combo (or a weapon with both??) that was awesome. If I had been able to go to the AH and see a million better weapons it would have been decidedly less awesome, especially if those weapons were priced such that I might as well just sell my shit and buy them instead.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 24, 2012, 01:59:23 PM
I think you overestimate how many people participated in the D2 economy. A lot of people played the game alone or with friends, or if they traded with strangers did so very haphazardly. There's something thrilling about getting a pretty good item that in your corner of the world is awesome. A thrill that is removed when your world expands.

That's a big part of it. Even getting a terrible unique was pretty exciting in D2. When you can easily just buy that unique after a 3 second AH search, and can assign an exact value to just how worthless it is? Decidedly less exciting.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: proudft on May 24, 2012, 02:03:13 PM
I wonder just how clogged with, well, everything the AH will be after a few months since nothing gets soulbound/destroyed/etc.  Frankly, maybe anything that doesn't sell should be destroyed by the auction house to keep that churn going.  After giving you your deposit back... maybe.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tannhauser on May 24, 2012, 02:14:27 PM
I got my first and only legendary drop, a DH quiver.  With dollar signs in my eyes I hit the AH...to find FIVE FUCKING PAGES of that quiver!

 :uhrr:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 24, 2012, 02:17:27 PM
I wonder just how clogged with, well, everything the AH will be after a few months since nothing gets soulbound/destroyed/etc.  Frankly, maybe anything that doesn't sell should be destroyed by the auction house to keep that churn going.  After giving you your deposit back... maybe.

I actually agree with that. I have no idea why items aren't soulbound in the game. It's just going to create an infinite amount of crap. That would be the first change I'd make to fix the loot system.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 24, 2012, 02:27:16 PM
I actually agree with that. I have no idea why items aren't soulbound in the game.

The same reason enemies drop under-level loot: the loot system was not well thought-out. They took D2-style loot, added a feature (AH) that completely changed how people interacted with that loot, and didn't make any adjustments to account for it.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hutch on May 24, 2012, 02:36:34 PM
I got my first and only legendary drop, a DH quiver.  With dollar signs in my eyes I hit the AH...to find FIVE FUCKING PAGES of that quiver!

 :uhrr:

Wow. Five pages of one legendary item. I wonder what's going to happen on the RMAH, when it's not play money on the line.

Edit to add: Wow. If there's five pages of a legendary on the gold AH, will anyone even bother looking to buy things from the RM AH? Has Blizzard shot the RMAH in the foot here? Have they finally found the cure for RMT?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 24, 2012, 03:08:52 PM
I know I'm probably being silly, but I honestly don't think blizzard are planning on earning millions from the RMAH. The fact was Diablo 2 has been a complete mess for years thanks to the sale of items - there's so much of out it there it's scary. Start a game and you'll be invaded by bots selling stuff and advertising instantly.

I figure the RMAH was first thought about because they realised they were never going to stop that behaviour in this sort of game, so may as well accommodate it and try to make it safer.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: naum on May 24, 2012, 03:20:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=711bZ_pLusQ


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 24, 2012, 03:40:20 PM
I was oddly enthralled by that.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hutch on May 24, 2012, 04:28:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=711bZ_pLusQ

You're either in the wrong thread, or that was one hell of a metaphor  :grin:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Megrim on May 24, 2012, 04:33:12 PM
I know I'm probably being silly, but I honestly don't think blizzard are planning on earning millions from the RMAH. The fact was Diablo 2 has been a complete mess for years thanks to the sale of items - there's so much of out it there it's scary. Start a game and you'll be invaded by bots selling stuff and advertising instantly.

I figure the RMAH was first thought about because they realised they were never going to stop that behaviour in this sort of game, so may as well accommodate it and try to make it safer.

Its not impossible that they thought both. Create some kind of secure & stable economy AND make sweet chashy moneys. Of course, what Corporate thinks and what actually happens don't always line up.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on May 24, 2012, 05:03:02 PM
I got my first and only legendary drop, a DH quiver.  With dollar signs in my eyes I hit the AH...to find FIVE FUCKING PAGES of that quiver!

 :uhrr:

Wow. Five pages of one legendary item. I wonder what's going to happen on the RMAH, when it's not play money on the line.

Edit to add: Wow. If there's five pages of a legendary on the gold AH, will anyone even bother looking to buy things from the RM AH? Has Blizzard shot the RMAH in the foot here? Have they finally found the cure for RMT?  :awesome_for_real:

Greens will bring the greenbacks.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 24, 2012, 05:12:51 PM
I think killing the secondary market sites was much more important to them than the secondary goal of grabbing the relatively small amount of money involved.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 24, 2012, 06:42:34 PM
Source: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4427663050
Quote
Q: I have noticed this issue since I started playing beta. You just get hit by monster's melee attack when you are obvious out of their range. I don't know whether it's a latency issue, or intentional design, or bug?

A: It's intentional. We don't want a game where the most effective way to play is to dodge in and out of enemy attacks. It's not that difficult to do, and it's just not a very fun way to play. "Most effective" and "not fun" just can't be in the same sentence when describing part of the game. We want combat to be based on use of abilities, putting thought into builds, building up offensive and defensive stats, etc. Skill is absolutely a part of all of the systems you'll use, and kiting can be too, but it'd be ridiculous if you could avoid all of the systems that make the game the game because you can time dodges of enemy attacks and negate every other factor.
:uhrr:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 24, 2012, 07:10:03 PM
A+ to that, I say.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 24, 2012, 07:11:55 PM
You can dodge special attack type things (when the demon orc dudes raise their hammer and glow red, you can still GTFO), but basic attacks always deal damage once the swing starts. It stops you from essentially circle strafing things or baiting long animation attacks. It DOES mean you need to gtfo as a caster before melee ever closes range, not just when they wind up a swing.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 24, 2012, 07:28:27 PM
Well, I beat the big D last night on normal. It's a fun game, but man, it really doesn't feel of the caliber of Diablo or Diablo 2. Nowadays Blizzard is so bland. I'm glad the character got to be the big damn hero in act IV "Where angels fail, I shall succeed!" or whatever he says  :grin: but god-fucking-dammit does Diablo blabber on and on and on about nothing interesting. He's like a white noise machine.

Game needs more game, less cutscenes.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Numtini on May 24, 2012, 08:16:40 PM
Well I beat Diablo on Normal today. The final fight was a trivial burndown with a three person PUG. I know you replay it at harder values, but that with my toddler dominated life I could finish the thing in 9 days of very casual play is disappointing bordering on ridiculous. I did all of Act 2 in a single sitting last sunday and did all of Act 4 today in a single sitting. That just seems wrong and i'm left with that Peggy Lee feeling.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Nevermore on May 24, 2012, 08:40:43 PM
Source: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4427663050
Quote
Q: I have noticed this issue since I started playing beta. You just get hit by monster's melee attack when you are obvious out of their range. I don't know whether it's a latency issue, or intentional design, or bug?

A: It's intentional. We don't want a game where the most effective way to play is to dodge in and out of enemy attacks. It's not that difficult to do, and it's just not a very fun way to play. "Most effective" and "not fun" just can't be in the same sentence when describing part of the game. We want combat to be based on use of abilities, putting thought into builds, building up offensive and defensive stats, etc. Skill is absolutely a part of all of the systems you'll use, and kiting can be too, but it'd be ridiculous if you could avoid all of the systems that make the game the game because you can time dodges of enemy attacks and negate every other factor.
:uhrr:

So it's the complete opposite of GW2.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on May 24, 2012, 11:00:09 PM
Dodging attacks is "not fun?" News to me. I would say that dodging attacks is pretty fundamental to action games.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rendakor on May 24, 2012, 11:26:33 PM
If attacks are able to be dodged, next they'll be balanced around being dodged and then people with lag will be even more screwed (in their single player games, no less).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: apocrypha on May 25, 2012, 12:15:09 AM
If attacks are able to be dodged, next they'll be balanced around being dodged and then people with lag will be even more screwed (in their single player games, no less).

This. Dodging big, wind-up, heavily telegraphed boss skills is fine, that's kinda what the boss fights are. Dodging individual attacks as normal gameplay just makes me think of Daoc bard song twisting, which sucked.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: caladein on May 25, 2012, 12:17:40 AM
I think melee jousting is pretty terrible gameplay unless its designed around from the beginning like with a fatigue/other movement discouraging system or just being generally really smooth.

Otherwise it just devolves into shuffling, circle strafing, and cheesing the interaction of swing timers and whatever server-side prediction/timing is happening.  Which I guess can be fun in isolation, but not for me in a game with other systems layered on top of it.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 25, 2012, 12:23:45 AM
Tera's combat system is the best yet imo.

In other news, the rmah is delayed again, and has no release date.  How the mighty have fallen...


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 25, 2012, 12:33:01 AM
I guess it's too much to ask that the distance enemies are shown on screen actually indicate whether they can hit you? It's stupid when I use an escape move to cover half the screen, and still take hits from every melee enemy I was near a second later.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: SurfD on May 25, 2012, 12:38:12 AM
I guess it's too much to ask that the distance enemies are shown on screen actually indicate whether they can hit you? It's stupid when I use an escape move to cover half the screen, and still take hits from every melee enemy I was near a second later.
I believe that would require negative ping. Perhaps you should talk to the Dawn guys about your problem?  Either that, or re-locate down the block from wherever Blizzard is hosting the Diablo server farm?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on May 25, 2012, 12:44:19 AM
I believe that would require negative ping. Perhaps you should talk to the Dawn guys about your problem?  Either that, or re-locate down the block from wherever Blizzard is hosting the Diablo server farm?

It wouldn't. A million other online games don't have this problem. It's not technical, it's design.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on May 25, 2012, 12:50:19 AM
"Is it true that in the dark old days you could play games by yourself without worrying about network connections?"
"Yes, grandson. When you walked away from an enemy your computer did that, not a server somewhere else. Ridiculous, isn't it?"

Jokes aside, yesterday I had serious rubberbanding, something I didn't realize with my Barbarian (who always stood in the middle of his enemies and whacked away with his cleaver anyway).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: caladein on May 25, 2012, 01:50:32 AM
I believe that would require negative ping. Perhaps you should talk to the Dawn guys about your problem?  Either that, or re-locate down the block from wherever Blizzard is hosting the Diablo server farm?

It wouldn't. A million other online games don't have this problem. It's not technical, it's design.

My understanding is that it's both.  If one wants the client to show positions with high accuracy, either a negligible latency is required or either the client or server needs to be authoritative as to positioning.

The first is really hard to get, the second leads to speed hacks, and the third can lead to a weird floaty feel to movement.  So, there's a compromise where we only have a general idea where our character is exactly, but it feels smooth.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 25, 2012, 03:40:31 AM
The whole latency business becomes apparent when you try playing D3 back to back with Torchlight or Path of Exile.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 25, 2012, 03:44:11 AM
I like the idea of failed auctions destroying the item. That'd solve the 20 pages of the same legendary for 1,000,000 gold when it's a NORMAL MODE legendary. Fucking morons.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: apocrypha on May 25, 2012, 03:54:55 AM
I like the idea of failed auctions destroying the item. That'd solve the 20 pages of the same legendary for 1,000,000 gold when it's a NORMAL MODE legendary. Fucking morons.

How is it a problem? Just sort by buyout, lowest first. I never even see those 20 pages of stupidly overpriced stuff.

Something that's pissing me off a bit is ability activation. Why is it so flaky? I have to spam the buttons for some abilities like Frost Nova and Wave of Light before they activate. I'm guessing it's something to do with animations and being locked into "being hit" animation frames or something. It's incredibly annoying though, especially when there's many skills that don't have the problem.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Shatter on May 25, 2012, 04:41:04 AM
So with the number of people playing the AH is saturated with sales and 99% of drops I get dont even sell for $1000g.  Unless the drops have specific things on them which I know someone will pay for I vendor pretty much everything.  Stuff I find that sells ok:

1)  + magic find with decent stats.  I got a blue ring last night that only had +19% to magic find, its at 100g bid this morning.  These are the best sellers and I just put them up without buyouts to make more.
2)  High dmg weapons with decent stats, although I have a harder time selling 2 handers but even then these only sell for a few thousand
3)  Double socket items with decent stats
4)  Items with high + increase gold with decent stats, I assume its farmers buying these up.

All the socket gems dont sell for shit unless you get to the really high ones, most items with sockets now have gems in them by the seller.    Sometimes I find blues that are better then golds but this is pretty rare.  I can still sell + dmg rings and amulets as more people realize +dmg is important for DPS output, at least in normal mode.  I have yet to even get a legendary drop of any kind but I see the prices on those staying fairly high but as more people play and go up in modes those drops will increase and prices will drop as well. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Azuredream on May 25, 2012, 04:53:15 AM
Stats I look for..

Boots: move speed
Gloves; attack speed, critical chance, critical damage
Helmet: socketed, critical chance
Bracer: critical chance
Rings/Amulets: attack speed, damage, critical chance, critical damage
Weapon: damage, % damage, attack speed
Everything: all resists, magic/gold find, big numbers on primary stats/vitality
Class specific stuff: bonuses to resource mechanic, ability boosts


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: K9 on May 25, 2012, 05:35:44 AM
Quivers are not worth selling.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 25, 2012, 06:35:48 AM


How is it a problem? Just sort by buyout, lowest first. I never even see those 20 pages of stupidly overpriced stuff.


When I try this I get things with no buyout to show up first, which is still a bit annoying.  Though most of the time I search with a max buyout anyway.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 25, 2012, 06:46:36 AM
Dodging attacks is "not fun?" News to me. I would say that dodging attacks is pretty fundamental to action games.

I bet you think bunny hopping in FPS is a legit skill, too. I'm personally thrilled as a melee that I don't have to circle strafe mobs or worry about bouncing in combat just to live.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: apocrypha on May 25, 2012, 07:17:42 AM
AH stuff: if you don't want to see the no buyout items just enter a max buyout in your search. Make it huge and you'll see everything with a buyout of any kind.

I always put a buyout on items I'm selling and I never, ever look at stuff without a buyout. If I want to buy something I want it now, not tomorrow and not in 4 days time after getting outbid repeatedly by other people. No buyout = no sale.

Legendaries aren't worth selling unless they have awesome stats and even then it's iffy. I've had 4 drop, none of them sold.

Always remove gems from an item before selling it. It's cheaper than buying a new gem. Plus I never buy anything with gems already in it because it fucks up the DPS display on the AH. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

I've sold 3 things for over 100k each today because they were at the top of their level range for either DPS or armour and they had useful stats (level 45-50 items, all of them). If something isn't near the top of the range for it's level vendor it. If it's near the top but doesn't have good stats, vendor it. You only have 10 auction slots, don't waste them with crap!

This should all be in the AH thread ofc.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 25, 2012, 07:29:20 AM
AH stuff: if you don't want to see the no buyout items just enter a max buyout in your search. Make it huge and you'll see everything with a buyout of any kind.


Oh, neat, didn't realize this, thanks.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Miasma on May 25, 2012, 07:45:27 AM
I wish my inventory button didn't blink everytime I pick something up.

I'm the one who picked it up, you don't have to tell me that there is something new in my bags, I'm aware.

It's diablo, I'm going to pick up a lot of stuff so that button is always flashing, pointlessly.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Azuredream on May 25, 2012, 09:24:31 AM
I wish my inventory button didn't blink everytime I pick something up.

I'm the one who picked it up, you don't have to tell me that there is something new in my bags, I'm aware.

It's diablo, I'm going to pick up a lot of stuff so that button is always flashing, pointlessly.

+1

I'm compulsive about blinking UI elements so I've gotten into the habit of tapping 'I' twice every time I pick up an item just so it STOPS BLINKING GODDAMNIT.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 25, 2012, 09:27:45 AM
I believe that would require negative ping. Perhaps you should talk to the Dawn guys about your problem?  Either that, or re-locate down the block from wherever Blizzard is hosting the Diablo server farm?

I assumed it was a latency issue until I read that Blizzard response talking about exactly this. If an enemy was going to attack you, you will be hit by it even if you move a screen away from it. It's not lag, it's by design. Bad design.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: K9 on May 25, 2012, 09:40:52 AM
Legendaries aren't worth selling unless they have awesome stats and even then it's iffy. I've had 4 drop, none of them sold.

I was wondering how many other people had seem. I'm still at zero myself.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Thrawn on May 25, 2012, 09:45:56 AM
Legendaries aren't worth selling unless they have awesome stats and even then it's iffy. I've had 4 drop, none of them sold.

I was wondering how many other people had seem. I'm still at zero myself.

I'm level 56 in about Act 2-3 Hell.  I had two legendary items drop in about an hour when I was in Nightmare Act 2, have not seen any before or since.  I'm running about 160% MF currently.

Both were actually decent and I got about 75k for each of them.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: murdoc on May 25, 2012, 09:50:07 AM
I got a level 18 Legendary fist weapon and sold it for 10k. When I checked the AH, they went from 5k to 30 million over about 15 pages of the same item  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 25, 2012, 10:36:20 AM
I believe that would require negative ping. Perhaps you should talk to the Dawn guys about your problem?  Either that, or re-locate down the block from wherever Blizzard is hosting the Diablo server farm?

I assumed it was a latency issue until I read that Blizzard response talking about exactly this. If an enemy was going to attack you, you will be hit by it even if you move a screen away from it. It's not lag, it's by design. Bad design.

Why is that bad design? They are specifically making it so they are nullifying a facet of cheese gameplay.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: proudft on May 25, 2012, 10:51:01 AM
Legendaries aren't worth selling unless they have awesome stats and even then it's iffy. I've had 4 drop, none of them sold.

I was wondering how many other people had seem. I'm still at zero myself.

I found one so far, level 20-ish wizard gloves (Magefist) which my baby wizard is wearing.  They seemed ok for the level.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 25, 2012, 11:13:56 AM
I believe that would require negative ping. Perhaps you should talk to the Dawn guys about your problem?  Either that, or re-locate down the block from wherever Blizzard is hosting the Diablo server farm?

I assumed it was a latency issue until I read that Blizzard response talking about exactly this. If an enemy was going to attack you, you will be hit by it even if you move a screen away from it. It's not lag, it's by design. Bad design.

Why is that bad design? They are specifically making it so they are nullifying a facet of cheese gameplay.

It isn't bad design. It just means the 'RPG' in ARPG is more emphasized than the 'A' which is IMO how it should be.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 25, 2012, 11:38:01 AM
Pretty much. Having a Dodge% stat in a game with active dodging would be silly. GW2 and such make dodging something YOU do. D3 makes dodging something your character does.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rendakor on May 25, 2012, 11:48:43 AM
I found 2 legendaries midway through normal, Magefist and some pants; I used both on my Wizard for a good while then sold them. I'm currently on Act 2 Hell and haven't seen one since.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 25, 2012, 11:52:00 AM
Why is that bad design? They are specifically making it so they are nullifying a facet of cheese gameplay.

It's mostly a problem when you aren't trying to weave in and out of attacks: when you're just playing normally. The escape spell example I used is exactly what i'm talking about. Teleporting a screen away from an enemy and then getting hit by that enemies melee attack a second later feels broken. That's working as intended though to stop 'exploiting'. If an enemy starts its attack animation (even it's a frame that is not visibly different than that enemy's idle animation) you will get hit by it.

Many of Diablo 3's design decisions (boss loot sucking compared to rare/champion mobs) seem to be 'fixing' a part of the game most people never really participated in and breaking the game for everyone else.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 25, 2012, 12:02:04 PM
I'm still using a now pretty crappy legendary helmet since it had a lot of magic find and a socket which I put more magic find in. I should really replace it but it looks cooler than the ridiculous mask things that are appropriate for my level.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: schild on May 25, 2012, 12:03:08 PM
I have a complaint, what fucking update did I just download? What's the point of the launcher at all if it's not going to have fucking patch notes?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: K9 on May 25, 2012, 12:06:18 PM
This is Blizzards new policy of letting you discover patch notes for yourself! It's all part of the adventure.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Azuredream on May 25, 2012, 12:07:12 PM
I'm still using a now pretty crappy legendary helmet since it had a lot of magic find and a socket which I put more magic find in. I should really replace it but it looks cooler than the ridiculous mask things that are appropriate for my level.

You can buy vanishing dye pretty early (Act II normal is the earliest I think) that will hide the armor piece for you. I have it on my helm since it is very ugly.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Miasma on May 25, 2012, 12:53:34 PM
Those official forums are probably the third worst I've ever seen, or at least the general board is.  I guess since there is no monthly fee the raging nutjobs will be able to post there forever?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on May 25, 2012, 01:37:55 PM
I bet you think bunny hopping in FPS is a legit skill, too. I'm personally thrilled as a melee that I don't have to circle strafe mobs or worry about bouncing in combat just to live.

This is like the worst possible analogy.

Bunny hopping is a strategy that would completely fail in real life but works in games due to unintended rules interactions.

Moving out of range from someone trying to chop your arm off is a strategy that works in real life, and being hit by someone who is clearly too far away to actually hit you is unintuitive and only happens because of system quirks.

If someone has a pretty slow attack with low range and you move out of range that is hardly an exploit or gaming the system. It's what you would naturally do. Trying to get out of the way of someone trying to kill you is not "cheese" it's common sense. It's no more "cheese" than hiding behind cover in an FPS or jumping out of the path of an oncoming Goomba.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 25, 2012, 01:58:46 PM
You can be disappointed all you want but you can't proclaim failure or success. You aren't qualified.

The same goes for everyone on these forums, or most forums for that matter. Why are you posting again?


That's not the right question. The question is... what are the necessary qualification one has to achieve in order to declare a game as being a success or failure? The whole Diablo 3 fangasm has been pretty 'OK' so far on this forum, I'm nodding at some good and bad points and still withheld my purchase. But 'unqualified' to opine? What?


It was a reference to Rokal's defense of what he loved about WoW in the criticism thread over there. I could never really figure out why he felt compulsive about responding to any post in the criticism thread, or why he'd ever be reading it since he didn't seem to think criticism was warranted. (I shouldn't have brought that to this forum, so I dropped it.)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 25, 2012, 04:03:44 PM
Moving out of range from someone trying to chop your arm off is a strategy that works in real life, and being hit by someone who is clearly too far away to actually hit you is unintuitive and only happens because of system quirks.

I see. So in a game of demons swinging we're going to argue physics.

Two points about this. #1, using an escape method that instantly teleports you away from mobs doesn't work in real life either. Also, if somebody is running away from you as you're swinging back, you're not going to follow through. An intelligent person would stop, readjust and chase. But then again you're arguing real life in a game where my character in melee range can punch the skeletons out of demons.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Trippy on May 25, 2012, 04:07:10 PM
Jousting is a time-honored video game mechanic. I can understand, though, why Blizzard might want to get rid of it.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 25, 2012, 04:40:02 PM
It does feel jarring to see a big mob not even finish his swing animation before my frost shield goes off and I take damage.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on May 25, 2012, 09:20:29 PM
I see. So in a game of demons swinging we're going to argue physics.

I guess you think Diablo universe has some midichlorian like magic shit where any time anyone tries to hit another person they take damage even if they clearly weren't hit, but everything else works the same?

Suspension of disbelief works for things like yeah, demons don't exist in real life but they do in a game. However demons that swing swords to attack you but you actually take damage even if they whiff, presumably because it's the thought of attacking that actually hurts you, and they swing just for the hell of it even though the actual swing is completely irrelevant, doesn't really make sense even given a fictional world.

You are being pointlessly pedantic. Lolz in real life there aren't demons, therefore in the world of Diablo error 37 makes perfect sense! It's demons blocking you from invading their realm!!!!

I think it's fair to assume that in the fiction of Diablo the way you injure people is to hit them with weapons, not to think about hitting them with weapons.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rasix on May 26, 2012, 12:17:25 AM
For fuck's sake. Enough.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 26, 2012, 12:40:08 AM
I have a complaint, what fucking update did I just download? What's the point of the launcher at all if it's not going to have fucking patch notes?

Is everyone else getting a LOT of updates or is mine just redownloading the same fucking shit every time I want to play and at a snails pace too ?



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sir Fodder on May 26, 2012, 01:05:13 AM
I got the mystery update earlier but none since, just started it up, its up to date.

Yeah shitty communications, how long have the commodity auctions been down?

I hate the blinky inventory button too.

Can't get too worked up about non-gameplay stuff but I'm sorta gripey about the cutscenes, they wouldn't be bad for a Disney type movie, big production but sort of overblown and tired. The ones from D1 and D2 were so weird and awesome: the swinging doors and campy horror of D1 plus the shocking scene of the stranger jamming the crystal into his head. The expansion scene from D2 where the weirdly mincing fellow gets splatted, most excellent. The Marius ones from D2 blew me away, he was so freaked out, I think the scene where he is spying on the prime evils before the gate he is supposed to go into is the greatest cutscene ever "a sight no mortal eyes should ever see!" haha.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 26, 2012, 05:44:20 AM
I see. So in a game of demons swinging we're going to argue physics.

I guess you think Diablo universe has some midichlorian like magic shit where any time anyone tries to hit another person they take damage even if they clearly weren't hit, but everything else works the same?

Suspension of disbelief works for things like yeah, demons don't exist in real life but they do in a game. However demons that swing swords to attack you but you actually take damage even if they whiff, presumably because it's the thought of attacking that actually hurts you, and they swing just for the hell of it even though the actual swing is completely irrelevant, doesn't really make sense even given a fictional world.

You are being pointlessly pedantic. Lolz in real life there aren't demons, therefore in the world of Diablo error 37 makes perfect sense! It's demons blocking you from invading their realm!!!!

I think it's fair to assume that in the fiction of Diablo the way you injure people is to hit them with weapons, not to think about hitting them with weapons.


Video games do things they don't make sense from a real life perspective all the time for gameplay reasons.  They've said this is one of those.  If you don't like the mechanic as it relates to gameplay, then make that argument.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 26, 2012, 06:44:23 AM
I think diablo3 is making me swear off online games.

Let that statement sink in.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Azuredream on May 26, 2012, 07:58:38 AM
I can't dye set items.  :heartbreak:

edit: I guess it's legendary items of all kinds according to Google. This is irritating. Anything that limits choices is almost never good.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Khaldun on May 26, 2012, 11:39:47 AM
Performance today is just awful.

When the AH *is* up, it's full of "This text should be replaced by game data" listings.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 26, 2012, 11:54:22 AM
I got the mystery update earlier but none since, just started it up, its up to date.

Yeah shitty communications, how long have the commodity auctions been down?

I hate the blinky inventory button too.

Can't get too worked up about non-gameplay stuff but I'm sorta gripey about the cutscenes, they wouldn't be bad for a Disney type movie, big production but sort of overblown and tired. The ones from D1 and D2 were so weird and awesome: the swinging doors and campy horror of D1 plus the shocking scene of the stranger jamming the crystal into his head. The expansion scene from D2 where the weirdly mincing fellow gets splatted, most excellent. The Marius ones from D2 blew me away, he was so freaked out, I think the scene where he is spying on the prime evils before the gate he is supposed to go into is the greatest cutscene ever "a sight no mortal eyes should ever see!" haha.



Just so. D1 and D2 were knocking on the door of gothic weird horror type stuff. D3 is less about the creeping horror and more about angels and demons fighting each other with superpowers.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: El Gallo on May 26, 2012, 12:00:30 PM
Can't get too worked up about non-gameplay stuff but I'm sorta gripey about the cutscenes, they wouldn't be bad for a Disney type movie, big production but sort of overblown and tired. The ones from D1 and D2 were so weird and awesome: the swinging doors and campy horror of D1 plus the shocking scene of the stranger jamming the crystal into his head. The expansion scene from D2 where the weirdly mincing fellow gets splatted, most excellent. The Marius ones from D2 blew me away, he was so freaked out, I think the scene where he is spying on the prime evils before the gate he is supposed to go into is the greatest cutscene ever "a sight no mortal eyes should ever see!" haha.

"What . . . choice did I have?  I ran."

D3 ones just fall so far short.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 26, 2012, 12:50:54 PM
Performance today is just awful.

When the AH *is* up, it's full of "This text should be replaced by game data" listings.

Today, for the first time, 80ms and solid as a rock.

It's a first for Europe.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on May 26, 2012, 08:00:59 PM
Ok, so I decided to play Blizzard's game of "upgrade from the AH not from gameplay". Bought two handbows 2 levels below me (26). Had to read on the forums how to claim them. Then read that even though you buy them out, they don't "complete" instantaneously and that some people are waiting 48 hours for "completion" off buyouts. Is this for real? I could put another couple of levels on by then and the items would be worthless. :(


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 26, 2012, 08:05:10 PM
Ok, so I decided to play Blizzard's game of "upgrade from the AH not from gameplay". Bought two handbows 2 levels below me (26). Had to read on the forums how to claim them. Then read that even though you buy them out, they don't "complete" instantaneously and that some people are waiting 48 hours for "completion" off buyouts. Is this for real? I could put another couple of levels on by then and the items would be worthless. :(

I have not had that problem. I buy something and it appears within 2 minutes usually. Twice I had to wait about a half hour because the AH was buggy and it was taken down. Then when it came back up my stuff was there.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Arinon on May 26, 2012, 08:34:40 PM
The AH has been really buggy and unresponsive for me today.  Auctions of mine timing out and not getting the item back, buying stuff but not seeing it in the completion list, and when it does it times out when I try to send it to my stash.  Hasn't been like that before.  I assume it's temporary nonsense and the weekend is making it worse.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on May 26, 2012, 09:18:06 PM
Let just agree to disagree on WoW, Maledict. One mans innovation is another mans iteration. Nothing you mentioned is anything put polishing proven concepts.


I know you're trying to back away from your ridiculous claim but this can't go unchallenged. Name the games that proved these concepts you claim weren't innovated by WoW.

To refesh your memory here's the list of features from Maledict's post

Quote
Erm, it completely rewrote how the genre works?

Questing to max level?
Viable soloing for all classes?
Random drops off all mobs?
Moddable interface?
Completely redesigned the raid paradigm? (go play PoP or GoD and then run Onyxia)
Scaling damage for casters?
Talent specs? (and Respeccing!)
Complete removal of camping?
Dungeon crawls?
Fully instanced content?



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Shatter on May 26, 2012, 09:19:16 PM
The AH all night has been at a standstill.  Bought 2 items, took the cash but nothing I can claim.  Items I try to send to stash sit there.  I would try and buy some lube but it wouldnt show up anyhow so I guess Ill have to take it dry :P


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on May 26, 2012, 09:21:40 PM
So on the drop system, as I plod through hell:

I have a feeling they adjusted the leveling curve at some point and didn't match the drops to it. In Normal and most of NM, the beginning of normal I got drops I couldn't use yet due to level. Past act 1 that turned to always getting drops 3-5 levels below me. This continued until Act 4 NM, where I started getting things a level above me, and Hell I've started getting things -1 to +5 of my level.

It's just screaming to me that they mucked with the leveling curve a bit, and forgot to change the item drop levels when they did it. I'm constantly finding useful things in Hell, which I never found before then.

Actually they did from what I saw in beta. After one patch where they oddly didnt wipe characters A lot of the rares I'd got from skelly king runs were suddenly unwearable as they required about 4 more levels than they had previously. Also, they made the exp gain slower as when I started beta a complete clear to the sk would have my char at 13 or so but by release it was down to maybe L9 or 10.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Khaldun on May 26, 2012, 09:23:45 PM
AH is totally broken but they've left it up. Stay away for now.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 26, 2012, 09:55:38 PM
If the AH seems 'frozen' (items not moving to stash, bought items not appearing), try relogging. That worked for me for both selling and buying.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 26, 2012, 10:33:45 PM
I know you're trying to back away from your ridiculous claim but this can't go unchallenged. Name the games that proved these concepts you claim weren't innovated by WoW.

To refesh your memory here's the list of features from Maledict's post

Quote
Erm, it completely rewrote how the genre works?

Questing to max level?
Complete removal of camping?
Dungeon crawls?
Fully instanced content?


You could argue these four things were "proven" in CoH, although it did have some mission gaps and you COULD do nothing but street sweeping all day to cap instead at release (and when it got nerfed, people bitched up a storm). You might not consider the various mission maps "dungeon crawls," though. Those were definitely instanced, though!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 27, 2012, 05:15:38 AM
They were proven in CoH, but it's not like WOW saw COH and incorporated them into the design.  COH wasn't even on their radar when it was released much less years afterward.  (Proven by Blizzard's inability to steal their awesome LFG tool.) 

WoW's questing to max was in direct response to the complaint all you did was camp & grind in EQ and possibly that there weren't enough quests in DAOC.  Ditto the dungeon crawls & instanced dungeons/ raids being responses to major complaints about EQ. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 27, 2012, 06:05:35 AM
Ok, so I decided to play Blizzard's game of "upgrade from the AH not from gameplay". Bought two handbows 2 levels below me (26). Had to read on the forums how to claim them. Then read that even though you buy them out, they don't "complete" instantaneously and that some people are waiting 48 hours for "completion" off buyouts. Is this for real? I could put another couple of levels on by then and the items would be worthless. :(

I have not had that problem. I buy something and it appears within 2 minutes usually. Twice I had to wait about a half hour because the AH was buggy and it was taken down. Then when it came back up my stuff was there.

I should have known better to post this. Last night, I bought 2 items. They didn't appear for more than a half hour. I went to bed. They are there now. I don't know when they arrived - some time in the last 9 hours.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 27, 2012, 06:11:23 AM
So on the drop system, as I plod through hell:

I have a feeling they adjusted the leveling curve at some point and didn't match the drops to it. In Normal and most of NM, the beginning of normal I got drops I couldn't use yet due to level. Past act 1 that turned to always getting drops 3-5 levels below me. This continued until Act 4 NM, where I started getting things a level above me, and Hell I've started getting things -1 to +5 of my level.

It's just screaming to me that they mucked with the leveling curve a bit, and forgot to change the item drop levels when they did it. I'm constantly finding useful things in Hell, which I never found before then.

Actually they did from what I saw in beta. After one patch where they oddly didnt wipe characters A lot of the rares I'd got from skelly king runs were suddenly unwearable as they required about 4 more levels than they had previously. Also, they made the exp gain slower as when I started beta a complete clear to the sk would have my char at 13 or so but by release it was down to maybe L9 or 10.

I don't think people level at the same rate, which might have something to do with it. You can blast through Acts or you can explore every dungeon or you can wear Experience % gear or any combination of these and end up at different levels than you would otherwise.

What I find a little weird is that I get drops at a wide range - for example from level 38 to level 51 in Hell, Act I. The 38 was a rare if that matters and I only got one. Mostly I got mid- to late-40s stuff. (I've been doing a lot of fooling around, exploring, so I'm now 55 at the beginning of Act II Hell - plus I leveled with exp% gear most of the way through).



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Cheddar on May 27, 2012, 08:22:25 AM
I feel like I am playing a beta is gripe #1.  Which would be fine- if it was not for the God Awful Latency (gripe #2).

Outside prime hours things run smooth.  Unfortunately my play time is pretty much limited to primetime. 

I have had fun and feel I got my money worth, but thinking I may put this on back burner for a week or two and wait for the miracle patch.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 27, 2012, 12:25:21 PM
I have not had lag problems (American servers).

Today the AH is completely borked, though. It appears that while people can purchase items, they never get delivered. I've seen the AH down, back up a few times but still has problems. I've hit a wall in Act 2 now, where I need upgrades to stop dying all the time, and my luck on drops has been awful. Time to farm pony staff mats, I guess.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hoax on May 27, 2012, 01:26:38 PM
I accidentally bought 6 newbie twink helms because every time it would say that I couldn't buy it (as if it was already purchased) and my money wouldn't go down. Eventually I logged off, when I came back on they were all delivered. I should have known something was up.

That said all of you people bitching about this game should gather up today and we should do a four man hardcore run. If its still not fun? Then quit now but I bet you it will be. Even stupidass Act2. Fresh character Act3 HC is the best though, you get there and your gear is starting to fall behind curve but Act3 is fun and really cool so its just extra fun and dangerous but still doable. Sometimes someone dies to those bomber fucks though.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on May 27, 2012, 02:09:05 PM
I have noticed there are a lot of socket weapons... makes me think people are buying the unsocketed stuff and reselling with rubies to try and make a profit. Aggravating as shit trying to find stuff for the cheap.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Cheddar on May 27, 2012, 02:18:20 PM
I have not had lag problems (American servers).

Today the AH is completely borked, though. It appears that while people can purchase items, they never get delivered. I've seen the AH down, back up a few times but still has problems. I've hit a wall in Act 2 now, where I need upgrades to stop dying all the time, and my luck on drops has been awful. Time to farm pony staff mats, I guess.

Maybe it is my location (South East VA)?  I just know certain time periods make it impossible to play.  9pm EST = log out.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on May 27, 2012, 02:20:15 PM
I wish the tooltip for AH items would show the summary of Life, Damage and Protection changes like it shows you in-game.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on May 27, 2012, 02:30:40 PM
So on the drop system, as I plod through hell:

I have a feeling they adjusted the leveling curve at some point and didn't match the drops to it. In Normal and most of NM, the beginning of normal I got drops I couldn't use yet due to level. Past act 1 that turned to always getting drops 3-5 levels below me. This continued until Act 4 NM, where I started getting things a level above me, and Hell I've started getting things -1 to +5 of my level.

It's just screaming to me that they mucked with the leveling curve a bit, and forgot to change the item drop levels when they did it. I'm constantly finding useful things in Hell, which I never found before then.

Actually they did from what I saw in beta. After one patch where they oddly didnt wipe characters A lot of the rares I'd got from skelly king runs were suddenly unwearable as they required about 4 more levels than they had previously. Also, they made the exp gain slower as when I started beta a complete clear to the sk would have my char at 13 or so but by release it was down to maybe L9 or 10.

I don't think people level at the same rate, which might have something to do with it. You can blast through Acts or you can explore every dungeon or you can wear Experience % gear or any combination of these and end up at different levels than you would otherwise.


I did the test with the same characters playing the same way.  It wasnt even a test really I just noticed it between resets and I think I would know if I play the same way from session to session don't you? And it was 3-4 levels difference, not 3-4 bubbles which might be explained by different styles.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 27, 2012, 04:22:17 PM
They were proven in CoH, but it's not like WOW saw COH and incorporated them into the design.  COH wasn't even on their radar when it was released much less years afterward.  (Proven by Blizzard's inability to steal their awesome LFG tool.) 

Not sure why you're assuming this, but okay.

I do not remember the CoX LFG tool at all, so how awesome could it have been? :P


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on May 27, 2012, 04:56:08 PM
They were proven in CoH, but it's not like WOW saw COH and incorporated them into the design.  COH wasn't even on their radar when it was released much less years afterward.  (Proven by Blizzard's inability to steal their awesome LFG tool.) 

Not sure why you're assuming this, but okay.

I do not remember the CoX LFG tool at all, so how awesome could it have been? :P

If I remember right the only unusual thing it did at the time was show you parties looking for more members. Like EQ's did at that time too iirc.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Threash on May 27, 2012, 05:06:26 PM
I have noticed there are a lot of socket weapons... makes me think people are buying the unsocketed stuff and reselling with rubies to try and make a profit. Aggravating as shit trying to find stuff for the cheap.

Or they are using them and then selling them after they get an upgrade.  Which is what i've done about 5 times now because bothering to ungem them is more effort than i am willing to put in for someone elses convenience.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hutch on May 27, 2012, 05:30:55 PM
They were proven in CoH, but it's not like WOW saw COH and incorporated them into the design.  COH wasn't even on their radar when it was released much less years afterward.  (Proven by Blizzard's inability to steal their awesome LFG tool.) 

Not sure why you're assuming this, but okay.


I took it to mean that CoH went retail a few months before WoW, so unless they had a spy, how would they know what systems CoH was going to introduce.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 27, 2012, 07:19:24 PM
Precisely.  Had COH released and then Blizzard said "Oh wait, we're going to delay and come out in 2 years," ok.  4 months? No.

COH's LFG tool was better than WoW's in that 1) it was in the game and 2) It let you pick a role and quests to help on.  The UI was better than EQs and it allowed you to invite via the UI vs doing a search, then closing the window and having to remember how to type that person's name.

Keep in mind I'm comparing to release WOW which had jack-shit, not even the terrible meeting stones.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on May 27, 2012, 07:28:32 PM
Questing to max level?
Viable soloing for all classes?
Random drops off all mobs?
Moddable interface?
Completely redesigned the raid paradigm? (go play PoP or GoD and then run Onyxia)
Scaling damage for casters?
Talent specs? (and Respeccing!)
Complete removal of camping?
Dungeon crawls?
Fully instanced content?

I don't even understand this list. "Random drops off all mobs." What games DON'T have this? In WoW when you kill mobs they drop items from some loot table, the same as basically every other MMO and many non-mmos.

"Dungeon crawls." What does that mean? A game where you...go into a dungeon? That was new in 2004?

What WoW "innovated" was a change in philosophy - solo play and questing. (I like how "removal of camping", "solo play" and "questing to max level" are three separate points in that list even though they are all the same thing. You can camp mobs in WoW, it's not removed, there's just no reason to)

WoW has some nice QOL improvements like moddable UI,  but in terms of bold new features I don't see a whole lot on that list that was new or bold. Certainly not talent trees (AC2) or instanced areas (FFXI).

Anarchy Online was based around questing and crawling through generated instances no? (At least in large part)

I'm not trying to discredit WoW but I don't think highly innovative is the right way to describe it. Instead I would say it represented an ideological shift. The biggest new feature in WoW was the exclamation mark. That sounds dismissive but at the time it was a huge deal and debates raged about wether the old '!' was dumbing down the game, making it awesome, making story and NPCs irrelevant, etc. And that's probably the feature that has seeped the most into non-MMO games.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 27, 2012, 08:09:25 PM
CoH hit retail a few months before WoW but I dunno, I knew about a lot of the random shit they were doing (like instanced missions) long before that, and I only slightly gave a shit about the game. <shrug>

In any case, they did it "first," so I'm afraid they still win in those categories.

This is not to say I really agree with the whole "WoW didn't bring anything new to the table" thing people like to harp on, I just get a little sad when CoH gets ignored for doing shit that was good and new.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Selby on May 27, 2012, 10:38:46 PM
My one gripe I've had is today in Act II I would be walking down a hall, the game would freeze for 5-6s, then I'd be dead.  This happened 6 times in a row.  No real warning, just walking, freeze, die when it recovers.  No elite mobs or champions nearby.  And my video card seems to hate the game, it will randomly go a mix of brown, white, and black while playing and the only way to fix it (short of restarting the game) is to change my textures from Low to High or vice versa.  Quite annoying.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Nevermore on May 28, 2012, 12:51:20 AM
CoH hit retail a few months before WoW but I dunno, I knew about a lot of the random shit they were doing (like instanced missions) long before that, and I only slightly gave a shit about the game. <shrug>

In any case, they did it "first," so I'm afraid they still win in those categories.

This is not to say I really agree with the whole "WoW didn't bring anything new to the table" thing people like to harp on, I just get a little sad when CoH gets ignored for doing shit that was good and new.

CoH is an example of a game that innovated a lot (hello sidekicking) yet never really reaped the benefits of all that innovation.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Brolan on May 28, 2012, 07:52:50 AM
My one gripe I've had is today in Act II I would be walking down a hall, the game would freeze for 5-6s, then I'd be dead.  This happened 6 times in a row.  No real warning, just walking, freeze, die when it recovers.  No elite mobs or champions nearby.  And my video card seems to hate the game, it will randomly go a mix of brown, white, and black while playing and the only way to fix it (short of restarting the game) is to change my textures from Low to High or vice versa.  Quite annoying.

Both of these can be caused by out-dated video drivers.  Have you updated them lately?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on May 28, 2012, 08:03:20 AM
Precisely.  Had COH released and then Blizzard said "Oh wait, we're going to delay and come out in 2 years," ok.  4 months? No.

COH's LFG tool was better than WoW's in that 1) it was in the game and 2) It let you pick a role and quests to help on.  The UI was better than EQs and it allowed you to invite via the UI vs doing a search, then closing the window and having to remember how to type that person's name.

Keep in mind I'm comparing to release WOW which had jack-shit, not even the terrible meeting stones.


In actual fact WoW had lfg flagging at release but it was taken out due to database loading issues.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on May 28, 2012, 08:07:35 AM

I'm not trying to discredit WoW but I don't think highly innovative is the right way to describe it.

The point was that he claimed that that list was already common in every MMO at the time.

A quote of the original post as it is several pages back.

Let just agree to disagree on WoW, Maledict. One mans innovation is another mans iteration. Nothing you mentioned is anything put polishing proven concepts.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 28, 2012, 08:40:36 AM
In actual fact WoW had lfg flagging at release but it was taken out due to database loading issues.


I don't think it made it to release. From what I remember they took it out in one of the last beta patches, around the time they did the open beta week.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on May 28, 2012, 08:43:35 AM
In actual fact WoW had lfg flagging at release but it was taken out due to database loading issues.


I don't think it made it to release. From what I remember they took it out in one of the last beta patches, around the time they did the open beta week.

Nope I used it the first 3 weeks. The took it out when they announced the retard rocks iirc. Was maybe 3-4 weeks into release.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 28, 2012, 08:44:41 AM
I'm now in Act 3 NM and the way everything is set up for multiplayer "balance" and with the AH in mind is getting more annoying by the minute.

Loot drops always 5 to 10 levels below your character level so that you have to sell it on the AH and buy stuff on the AH. I hit a brick wall at Belial, ended up spending gold on the AH to upgrade my outlevelled equip then one-shotted him or I could have farmed normal and nightmare until I'm level 50 and level 40+ starts to consistently drop or show up at vendors.

AH is broken beyond redemption, search is broken, AH is down all the time. Hate that you have to leave the game (which resets all maps) to buy or sell. Crafting is useless since you can't level them enough to give you level appropriate stuff without the AH. (pages of x first show up in NM, Tomes of x First in hell)

Bosses (except Belial and Diablo) are rdiculously easy especially compared to some of the random elite mobs with inane ability affixes.

Vitality, +dex  and +dam gear > all other stats. 2-hand always beats dual wield for damage 1-hand + board is always best for mitigation. Difficulty is controlled by damage output of mobs, no tactics or special gear needed just kite them across half the map or press the "oh shit I'm about to die" button when shit hits the fan until shinies fall out of the stupid mob pinatas.

I start to hate that you can feel all of the different ways they broke a perfectly good single player experience in order to better "monetize" it and to "balance" it for multiplayer and its obsessive playerbase.

I just wanted a single player game that I could play when I'm fed up with people and their bullshit. A single player game that is not emasculated by a multiplayer design philosophy that caters for and manages the min-maxer and theorycrafting crowd whose only joy it is to bend the rule framework of a game and then whine about it as soon as everybody does it.

Sometimes I don't want to play with other people (you know because most of us have to deal with people all day). I don't want a game where everything is broken just because a fraction of players are dicks in multiplayer and I might play online some day.

Keep local multiplayer and single player chars separate from the online ones and let me have my explosions and shinies even if it's sometimes broken or unbalanced or I'm not spending enough on the AH.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 28, 2012, 09:29:14 AM
If you want single player, play old games or ones without a multiplayer mode (Good luck finding those in a few years.)  I can't think of a decent Sp game from the last 5 years that wasn't ruined by multiplayer facet somehow.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on May 28, 2012, 09:37:46 AM
There still will be Single-Player games in a few years, they will just come from smaller studios and indy developers. The fact that maintaining servers is expensive will help us here. So don't worry all to much for us antisocial loners, Merusk.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 28, 2012, 10:04:59 AM
Multiplayer games are like being "on-call" in virtual life. I can have lots of social interactions in real life, if I want to, hell even lots I don't really want to but have to due to work or other engagements. So it's great to sometimes say "screw those fuckers", lock the doors, turn off the phone and be by myself.

The difference is that nobody dictates (I know some of you will reply "what about wifes or girlfriends?" just to be snarky) how I layout and furnish my home or how I have to act or conduct myself in my own home just because people might visit some time in the future maybe.

Broken metaphor, I know, but the multiplayer "disease" has become really invasive. Like overbearing parents that still tell you how to live long after you moved out.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 28, 2012, 10:35:16 AM
I have the opposite reaction. If your game has no multiplayer component at all, I'm probably going to play it a little bit then never touch it again. I like D3 because I've been able to sit there and chat with friends via the game while playing all on my lonesome. And easily switch to playing with them.

I can understand a complaint about it not being able to go offline if traveling/laggy/internet's down. But I don't get the impression that D3 is begging to throw random pickup players at me and forcing me to do things it's way. I've done almost the entire game into Hell solo on my wizard with no drama.

That said, I've been on call in real life for a decade, and multi is only similar to that if you play EVE or some other persistent PVP game where you may need to be woken up to deal with douchebags at 4am every morning for a week. THAT is overbearing and invasive. "Oh hey, we have a mode to play with friends" is just a facet of the world being pretty much net connected most of the time. Now for hotels to figure this out and stop giving me what appears to be a 56k modem shared between 100 guests.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 28, 2012, 11:28:08 AM
If you want single player, play old games or ones without a multiplayer mode (Good luck finding those in a few years.)  I can't think of a decent Sp game from the last 5 years that wasn't ruined by multiplayer facet somehow.

There's this one little know game series from Japan. I can't quite remember it's name...Diablo's Spirits or something?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rasix on May 28, 2012, 11:52:27 AM
If you want single player, play old games or ones without a multiplayer mode (Good luck finding those in a few years.)  I can't think of a decent Sp game from the last 5 years that wasn't ruined by multiplayer facet somehow.

You don't get around much, do you?  I know this is hyperbole, but it's absolutely absurd.  Most single player games with multiplayer have had it simply tacked on.  Completely ignorable.  I find it hard to bitch about multiplayer I don't ever play.  

On the flip side, I'm somewhat glad ME3 cajoled me into their multiplayer, so I could get a different shitty ending.  Lots of fun and decently done for a hacked on horde mode.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: K9 on May 28, 2012, 03:10:01 PM
Anarchy Online was based around questing and crawling through generated instances no? (At least in large part)

Yes and no; there were quests but they were pretty basic and procedurally generated for the overwhelming part. While they did break down into the typical kill/fetch/gather paradigms, they weren't really anything like the quests in WoW, which had narrative structures, and a progression. The quests in AO were closer to daily quests that you could run without limit. Also, a lot of levelling was done grinding mobs, especially once you got into Shadowlands *cough* Hecklers *cough*.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 28, 2012, 03:33:39 PM
Loot drops always 5 to 10 levels below your character level so that you have to sell it on the AH and buy stuff on the AH.

Funny, this stopped for me right around Act 3 Nightmare. I get all kinds of stuff I can use now (just starting Act 1 of Hell.)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 28, 2012, 03:41:40 PM
Yeah, same for me, acts 3 and 4 started dropping shit my level (a lot of it was crappy, but ... that's how D2 was if I remember right? Tons of crappy drops with some good drops mixed in?).

The only thing that bugs me is I when bust my ass (relatively speaking) killing a boss and it drops no rares because derpderpderp. It felt particularly annoying when I beat Belial (which is a shitty fight) and Diablo.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Azuredream on May 28, 2012, 05:00:37 PM
Am I the only one who likes the Belial fight?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 28, 2012, 05:04:16 PM
Am I the only one who likes the Belial fight?

Yes.  It is just you.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: caladein on May 28, 2012, 05:05:45 PM
I think it's pretty fun.  The platform could stand to be a bit wider as it gets really crowded in a full game, but that's about it.  Reminds me a lot of Heroic Ragnaros, but without most of the crap that makes me dislike that fight.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 28, 2012, 05:06:41 PM
I like it better than the Magda fight. That's just, really really bland for a character that is supposed to have offed somebody important.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rasix on May 28, 2012, 05:58:52 PM
I like it better than the Magda fight. That's just, really really bland for a character that is supposed to have offed somebody important.

She's kind of sad.  It's not really the least bit challenging. They could have least done some sort of massive cultist attack or something. 

Belial is OK.  I think I've died once and beat it on my first Nightmare attempt.  Having 10k (12k effectively) hp helps.

Act 3 dropped an item that I couldn't even use yet.  That's a first.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 28, 2012, 07:00:33 PM
Loot drops always 5 to 10 levels below your character level so that you have to sell it on the AH and buy stuff on the AH.

Funny, this stopped for me right around Act 3 Nightmare. I get all kinds of stuff I can use now (just starting Act 1 of Hell.)

I've played my monk to 60 and thru the end of Hell. The beginning of Hell was tough for me, because I had to upgrade everything from the AH. The drops gods were unkind until Act 3 or so. Since I bought all my stash slots and have been upgrading crafting, I've been constantly broke. So, I'd play Act I until I started getting oneshot by elites, then buy a piece of gear. I'd get a little further, go do some achievements, buy a piece of gear. (Doing achievements is also known as farming but not as boring).

My WD is 53, and at the beginning of Hell. I need to upgrade her gear as well, but decided to level a monk first because I was tired of dying so much. My WD rushed thru Normal and Nightmare with a monk, and was undergeared, and underleveled (I would find gear I couldn't wear).

I outfitted my monk with Exp% gear, and mostly soloed, grouped a little. My WD was often grouped, with no Exp% gear. I don't think I found a single piece of gear that I could not wear on monk due to level. Monk never had trouble with levels; WD did.

There are so many side events that give xp that I'm sure there's a great deal of variation in different people's experiences of leveling and gear (not to mention exp% gear).

I've found a few very very cool items that I can use. One is an awesome yellow level 23 ring that I found that my monk still wears. Another is a 20something helmet that is max in everything that I'm hanging onto for no reason; I'm sure I'll use it on an alt.

99% of what I find is junk, but it was in D2 also as I recall. I also hit a wall in D2, as I recall, often, because I had to farm so I could continue since I only played single player games, and I got bored.  I am a fan of the Auction House in theory, although not a fan of the current implementation with the bugs and so on.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Trippy on May 28, 2012, 11:23:58 PM
If you want single player, play old games or ones without a multiplayer mode (Good luck finding those in a few years.)  I can't think of a decent Sp game from the last 5 years that wasn't ruined by multiplayer facet somehow.

You don't get around much, do you?  I know this is hyperbole, but it's absolutely absurd.  Most single player games with multiplayer have had it simply tacked on.  Completely ignorable.  I find it hard to bitch about multiplayer I don't ever play.  

On the flip side, I'm somewhat glad ME3 cajoled me into their multiplayer, so I could get a different shitty ending.  Lots of fun and decently done for a hacked on horde mode.
ME3's horde mode wasn't hacked on, it was something they were planning on for quite a while. They were even working on a ME FPS cooperative multiplayer game (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect_Team_Assault) after ME2 before cancelling that and folding that work into ME3.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rasix on May 29, 2012, 12:16:01 AM
Ahh, so that's why it doesn't suck.  I usually just ignore multiplayer modes in single player games.  I needed that damn readiness, however.

Btw, you didn't do any of the DLC on your save game you gave me.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Trippy on May 29, 2012, 12:49:46 AM
I know, I didn't want to go through all the EA rigamarole just to purchase the ME2 DLC.

 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on May 29, 2012, 01:12:25 PM
Well, the game just broke on me.

When trying to log on to american servers I receive a "Diablo will be updated and restart" message, despite the client being up to date. European servers work fine.
A quick check on offical forums confirms this is a region problem.

I thought the deal with Blizzard games is one buys runs-on-a-toaster-graphic-fidelity and Metzen'ed story, but they make up for it in polish and quality?

Edit:
I have been prowling the forums and here is a fix, if anyone experiences the same issue:

Quote
1. Go to
C:\ProgramData\Battle.net\Agent\agent.db for Windows 7 or
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Battle.net\Agent\agent.db for Windows XP

2. Search Agent.DB, open in Wordpad and do a search for enGB.patch

3. Change URL addresses with enGB to:

http://enUS.patch.battle.net:1119/patch

You have to do this 3-4 times.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: FieryBalrog on May 29, 2012, 01:21:48 PM
Well, the game just broke on me.

When trying to log on to american servers I receive a "Diablo will be updated and restart" message, despite the client being up to date. European servers work fine.
A quick check on offical forums confirms this is a region problem.

I thought the deal with Blizzard games is one buys runs-on-a-toaster-graphic-fidelity and Metzen'ed story, but they make up for it in polish and quality?
Welcome to WoW launch 2.0

I really like this game, but there are SO many launch issues, and a huge part of that is because they didn't beta test it properly. Should have done an NDA'd locked down beta if they were that worried about spoilers. The reason Starcraft 2 had a comparably fantastic launch is because they beta tested the shit out of multiplayer for 5 months.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 29, 2012, 02:56:40 PM


I really like this game, but there are SO many launch issues, and a huge part of that is because they didn't beta test it properly. Should have done an NDA'd locked down beta if they were that worried about spoilers. The reason Starcraft 2 had a comparably fantastic launch is because they beta tested the shit out of multiplayer for 5 months.

This is definitely true, the SC2 multiplayer beta was really extensive.  Although the huge majority of the changes that went in weren't technical, but balance related.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Beta_Patch_Notes#StarCraft_II_Beta_.E2.80.93_Patch_1_.28version_0.3.0.14093.29


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 29, 2012, 03:11:34 PM
I really like this game, but there are SO many launch issues, and a huge part of that is because they didn't beta test it properly. Should have done an NDA'd locked down beta if they were that worried about spoilers. The reason Starcraft 2 had a comparably fantastic launch is because they beta tested the shit out of multiplayer for 5 months.

I doubt spoilers were a big part of it. Two reasons they did not allow a beta test of the entire game:

-hubris
-short campaign

General consensus seems to be that the game isn't as sticky as Diablo 2 whether due to time or design decisions. I doubt they were eager to have a couple million potential customers burn themselves out on the campaign before the game even launched.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 29, 2012, 03:16:55 PM
General consensus seems to be that the game isn't as sticky as Diablo 2 whether due to time or design decisions.

If you say so. That's not what I'm taking away from the discussions on it here (or friends I know who are playing.)



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 29, 2012, 03:17:49 PM
That's the impression I get from here. "Good game, but it's not hooking me like D2".


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 29, 2012, 03:59:57 PM
I didn't finish D2 once. I have rolled through D3's normal three times and nightmare once (working on a second time) and starting on hell. <shrug>


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 29, 2012, 04:02:09 PM
Yeah, the game has pretty much destroyed my office's evenings. I don't know what game F13 is playing, but I'm glad Blizzard fucked up and shipped me the version of D3 I have!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Abelian75 on May 29, 2012, 04:05:46 PM
They posted that 1.9% of characters (not players) have reached Inferno.  Also that players have an average of 3 characters each.  While you can't derive the number of players who have reached Inferno from that, around 4% doesn't seem unlikely, which is a fuckload of people to have played through your game a minimum of three times.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 29, 2012, 04:07:16 PM
An average of 3 characters?

Christ, I need to get medication for my altitis.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 29, 2012, 04:10:21 PM
I am unironically more interested in drunk-raiding on SWTOR tonight with some goons than I am in playing D3.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phildo on May 29, 2012, 04:19:07 PM
That's fine, since we apparently can't play D3 right now anyway.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 29, 2012, 04:35:30 PM
Yeah, the game has pretty much destroyed my office's evenings. I don't know what game F13 is playing, but I'm glad Blizzard fucked up and shipped me the version of D3 I have!

Don't worry, the populace generally likes the game and is playing it a ton. Forum noise is normal. I also happen to love it and I'm playing it daily.

If people are still upset a few months from now after patch 1.1? Different story.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on May 29, 2012, 05:06:16 PM
I realise that is yesterdays yesteryears news for everyone but me, but the pictures really astound me. The art direction is so different. Considering this is a 2005 snapshot of an unfinished game I fail to see how it could have been worse compared to what we are actually playing right now.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/05/28/the-diablo-iii-that-never-was/ Old Diablo 3 snapshots


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: naum on May 29, 2012, 05:10:06 PM
My big complaint ATM:

(https://img.skitch.com/20120530-gx6qssyxgpn6ggicfnab873uax.png)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on May 29, 2012, 05:21:15 PM
Seriously, what the fuck is this fucking shit.  I want to play D3 right about now.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 29, 2012, 05:42:33 PM
I will absolutely fault them for this shit. If you're going to make your game internet only to work, it has to fucking work. Server shit on their end is unacceptable in primetime hours.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: ezrast on May 29, 2012, 05:57:15 PM
Especially on a Tuesday. Like, you guys just had an 8 hour (!) maintenance window to make sure your shit was working. Which it did for 2 hours or so.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Selby on May 29, 2012, 06:16:04 PM
Quote
Players will now automatically join General chat when logging in
Oh fuck that.  Seriously?  I hate other people and don't want to sit in a chatroom with them.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on May 29, 2012, 06:23:33 PM
Yeah, I do Not Approve of that change for sure. Plus all the server bullshit, of course.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: ezrast on May 29, 2012, 06:23:43 PM
I'm innnnnnnnnn.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on May 29, 2012, 06:49:36 PM
Oh right.  The forced join to the Barrens General chat.  I'm hoping there's a way to set that to off, because that is something I want no part of at all.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 29, 2012, 08:16:26 PM
Forgot that weekly maintenance was on, tried to log in. Had to force quit game because it hung itself trying to log into servers that weren't there. Doesn't even give you notice (like "servers are down because we shut them off ourselves") just gets stuck at he "authentication" bullet point and doesn't react to "cancel".

They did test that shit before they went live didn't they?

I won't even go into the fact that I can't play a single player campaign because servers are down for maintenance.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 29, 2012, 08:20:04 PM
Oh right.  The forced join to the Barrens General chat.  I'm hoping there's a way to set that to off, because that is something I want no part of at all.

/leave 1

Unfortunately seems like you have to do it every time you log in.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 29, 2012, 08:21:10 PM
Wow. What in the hell made them think THAT was a good decision?

That'll be reversed in a few days.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on May 29, 2012, 08:46:13 PM
That'll be reversed in a few days.

(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9458/generalchat.png)

I really hope they do. I am getting too old for this.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 29, 2012, 08:50:24 PM
Wow. What in the hell made them think THAT was a good decision?

That'll be reversed in a few days.

I recall them saying chat rooms were going to be in, but the problem is that they did these awful chat box style chat for D3.  In D2 I'd often go into chat rooms to talk to people/trade/etc but GOING to the chat room was a separate thing to do in between games, and I didn't get spammed by that chat room when I entered a game.  I don't even mind it auto sticking me in a chat room in the menus all that much, but once I am in a game, it should disappear unless I ask for it.

Also, given the way public games can be joined, the game feels a lot more alive than SC2.  Many SC2 players have complained that the game feels very lonely because the chat rooms are so poorly implemented and there is no way to really interact with the playerbase.  My guess is that is something they wanted to avoid in Diablo 3, but this isn't necessary.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 29, 2012, 09:09:58 PM
Well the national rating boards will have a field day if the Diablo guys add all of the chat features after launch. In WoW the parental control features (that also manage the interactions with others) meant the difference between NC 17 and PG (or their EU game counterparts) and everything it entails (including less regulations regarding sales and advertising)

I also thought that they'd remember the shitstorms "general" created for WoW. Well, reinventing the wheel also means to repeat all of the mistakes, apparently.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Miasma on May 29, 2012, 10:03:11 PM
How does general chat even work, it's not like they could put 100,000 people online in Tristram in the same channel, does it just randomly dump you with a hundred strangers you will automatically hate and never see again?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 29, 2012, 10:20:32 PM
How does general chat even work, it's not like they could put 100,000 people online in Tristram in the same channel, does it just randomly dump you with a hundred strangers you will automatically hate and never see again?

See? We told you it was an online game and that there was a reason for all the login problems and downtime! The anonymous bigoted assholes talking on your screen are just proof.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: apocrypha on May 29, 2012, 10:45:30 PM
I had the same problem as you with the patching Calapine. Was something to do with confusion over US & EU versions. Ended up having to uninstall and reinstall, which luckily only took about 30 mins.

For a laugh, here's the patch notes according to the launcher:

Quote
Welcome to Diablo III! The fight for Sanctuary has begun.
Create Your BattleTag
Please note that in order to play, you must first create a BattleTag. To set up or change your BattleTag nickname, click here. For more information, see the BattleTag FAQ and Battle.net website.
Technical Issues
If you experience any technical issues installing Diablo III, connecting to Battle.net, or while playing the game, please visit our support site for assistance.
We’ll see you in-game!

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on May 30, 2012, 12:23:18 AM
Especially on a Tuesday. Like, you guys just had an 8 hour (!) maintenance window to make sure your shit was working. Which it did for 2 hours or so.

You mean Australian Prime Time right?

Every...

Fucking...

Tuesday...

Night!

We put up with this shit in WoW for years - welcome to the Diablo single player experience where you can only play 6 days a week - if you are lucky.

Roll on Torchlight 2 because much as I enjoy this laggy, "ok" game, I'm sick of this shit.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 30, 2012, 06:24:23 AM
I say this with love, but until Austrailia gets a stronger development community, you're probably going to get the short end of some sticks both on lag/downtime and pricing (for reasons I don't get).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 30, 2012, 06:57:54 AM
Wait, they added a general chat?

Why the holy fuck would they go and do that? Can I add general chat to their office speaker system so they can fully understand how terrible general chats are? They're live youtube comments!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 30, 2012, 06:59:01 AM
Logged in this morning, first line was something about retards and dying.

 :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Nebu on May 30, 2012, 07:09:16 AM
Wait, they added a general chat?

First thing I do when I log in to play: chat options --> leave channel.

Works like a charm.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Threash on May 30, 2012, 07:15:03 AM
There always was general chat, it was just off by default.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: apocrypha on May 30, 2012, 07:20:23 AM
Now it's on by default and comes back on every time you login.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 30, 2012, 07:23:05 AM
Europe fucked and AH wanked if you want gems or plans.

Servers too busy.

On my Day Off.

Once again, back to regretting this purchase.  When's Torchlight ?  They must be fucking giggling in glee at this catasraphuck.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 30, 2012, 07:23:49 AM
Probably because they saw nobody was turning it on.  

"Hey nobody's using chat!"

"Funny, they must not know it's there.  Let's turn it on by default."

"What if they don't ever turn it on after leaving"

"Just make it turn on all the time. If they really care they'll keep leaving."



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 30, 2012, 07:25:27 AM
By next week, Blizzard will release some bullshit about how joining general constantly wasn't intended, and that there is a button in the menu options that lets you opt out of it upon login.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 30, 2012, 07:26:45 AM
There's just one dude there who loves trolling General, and keeps trying to force it on everyone. "God damnit bob, did you commit a change that re-adds everyone to General again? Fucking hell!"


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 30, 2012, 07:42:24 AM
nvm


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on May 30, 2012, 08:22:59 AM
I think each General chat "room" caps out at 99 people.  I think.  Who knows?

I know how to leave WoW chat, the point I was trying to make is that I never want to auto-rejoin it, and that I do not wish to have to leave it every time I log in.  It was a stupid idea, and they can't revert it fast enough to please me.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 30, 2012, 08:47:30 AM
"The servers are busy, please try again later".

Seriously, fuck you Blizzard. It's five o'clock on a work day and you are already over capacity?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: amiable on May 30, 2012, 08:59:07 AM
The amount of downtime during primetime is rapidly approaching clownshoes levels.  But my annoyance may just be a function of my addiction.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 30, 2012, 09:07:36 AM
Just got kicked out after about 15 minutes of horrible lag. Error 37.

Fuck you Blizz.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 30, 2012, 09:09:25 AM
The honeymoon period for me lasted about as long as the campaign.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 30, 2012, 09:09:43 AM
"The servers are busy, please try again later".

Seriously, fuck you Blizzard. It's five o'clock on a work day and you are already over capacity?

I got that last night when I was trying to log in. I copy-pasted my password in and spam attempted to get in. It worked within a minute or two. Haven't tried this morning though.

10 years ago, even 5 years ago, launches like this were normal. Now? Is there any excuse for these problems 2 weeks after launch from a company with the resources Blizzard has?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 30, 2012, 09:23:46 AM
So the official reason for this outage is that too many people are reading the EULA at once.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on May 30, 2012, 09:25:05 AM
"The servers are busy, please try again later".

Seriously, fuck you Blizzard. It's five o'clock on a work day and you are already over capacity?

I got that last night when I was trying to log in. I copy-pasted my password in and spam attempted to get in. It worked within a minute or two. Haven't tried this morning though.

10 years ago, even 5 years ago, launches like this were normal. Now? Is there any excuse for these problems 2 weeks after launch from a company with the resources Blizzard has?

Of course... assloads of people always turn out at launch and month 1, then attrition sets in. No sense in planning for the peak, just the norm. Of course, they seem to be causing the attrition themselves here...


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on May 30, 2012, 09:27:42 AM
So the official reason for this outage is that too many people are reading the EULA at once.

There are like...5 of them.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 30, 2012, 01:40:46 PM
Well, thanks and howdy to all the American people who've friended me on the American Servers.

But I'm only here because the Euro servers are once again ass cuntingly down.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 30, 2012, 01:45:42 PM
Out of curiosity does it keep a separate character list by region or can you still play your regular dudes?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rendakor on May 30, 2012, 02:01:19 PM
Each region has its own characters.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 30, 2012, 02:24:41 PM
Yeah. I was fine with the online thing for the entire game, but the fact that the Euro servers have been down the entire evening is totally unacceptable at this point. Indefensible even to a fan boy like myself.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 30, 2012, 02:31:51 PM
The Euro servers have pretty much been offline for the entire launch.  It's been disastrous and we have no clue why;  what is the major difference between the US/Asia and us ? 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 30, 2012, 02:41:22 PM
Well we can't sue them if they screw up, the US does on the other hand...


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 30, 2012, 02:41:48 PM
The Euro servers have pretty much been offline for the entire launch.  It's been disastrous and we have no clue why;  what is the major difference between the US/Asia and us ? 

Longitude.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: naum on May 30, 2012, 02:43:23 PM
The Euro servers have pretty much been offline for the entire launch.  It's been disastrous and we have no clue why;  what is the major difference between the US/Asia and us ? 

Longitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd59VZFp9d0


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 30, 2012, 02:43:38 PM
So Euro servers aren't up? Or they are just crashing in primetime?

I went to the site and it said they are all up. I'm lost.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Teleku on May 30, 2012, 02:45:55 PM
The Euro servers have pretty much been offline for the entire launch.  It's been disastrous and we have no clue why;  what is the major difference between the US/Asia and us ? 
Socialism.



 :why_so_serious:


Other than the first two days, I haven't run into any downtime or major problems since launch, and am enjoying the game greatly.  Guess I'm just lucky apparently.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 30, 2012, 02:46:08 PM
Well we can't sue them if they screw up, the US does on the other hand...

South Korea has you covered (http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2012/05/123_111971.html)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 30, 2012, 02:58:38 PM
If people are displeased with the product and are willing to return it in full condition within a specified period, then they absolutely should get a refund for their money.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 30, 2012, 03:03:24 PM
So Euro servers aren't up? Or they are just crashing in primetime?

I went to the site and it said they are all up. I'm lost.

"We are investigating an issue with the Battle.net servers during that time all game services will be down"


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on May 30, 2012, 03:46:58 PM
Had my game crash for the first time today. One crash every 48 hours of playtime? I'll take that.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 30, 2012, 03:54:17 PM
So Euro servers aren't up? Or they are just crashing in primetime?

I went to the site and it said they are all up. I'm lost.

"We are investigating an issue with the Battle.net servers during that time all game services will be down"

So they are down right now? It says Asia is down on the site.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 30, 2012, 04:13:39 PM
Well, thanks and howdy to all the American people who've friended me on the American Servers.

But I'm only here because the Euro servers are once again ass cuntingly down.



US servers > Euro servers. You should stay. All the kool kids are here.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 30, 2012, 06:11:17 PM
They went up again at 1:30 local time but people have massive lag and sometimes even pauses for 2 or 3 seconds and much rubberbanding.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 30, 2012, 06:17:06 PM
Now it's on by default and comes back on every time you login.  :uhrr:

Blizzard's strategy to fix the servers is to chase off all the damn people.  :grin:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Cheddar on May 30, 2012, 06:40:57 PM
Got the itch.  Logged in.  Lagged.  Alt + f4.

Am I really the only one in the US having this issue?  How the hell are you people playing?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on May 30, 2012, 06:45:51 PM
Lagged once, or lagged constantly?

I've been lag free tonight, but I haven't been on in about an hour.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 30, 2012, 07:43:57 PM
I played tonight lag free from 7EST until now.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 30, 2012, 07:53:00 PM
  The occasional spike or disconnect, but nothing which has prevented me from playing (although I am hesitant to start a HC character).  I played most of the evening tonight with 0 problems though.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on May 30, 2012, 08:46:21 PM
Got bored of grinding my dick against the wall in Act 1 Inferno. Thankfully they added other things to do in this game other than grind. Man, I sure would be bored without PvP, or endless dungeons, or challenges, or all the different game modes they added to mix things up.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rasix on May 30, 2012, 08:52:53 PM
 :roll:

I'm going to have to slow down for a different reason.  Hello again, tennis elbow.  I've not missed you, but it seems you're back.  And angry.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 30, 2012, 09:15:28 PM
Got bored of grinding my dick against the wall in Act 1 Inferno. Thankfully they added other things to do in this game other than grind. Man, I sure would be bored without PvP, or endless dungeons, or challenges, or all the different game modes they added to mix things up.  :oh_i_see:

Pretty much my feelings as well.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 30, 2012, 09:24:34 PM
Do yall play with other people? Because if you don't I can understand some of the frustration. If you do and still hate what's going on? I think you might just hate fun.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: ezrast on May 30, 2012, 11:47:15 PM
After playing for a while my major complaint (aside from the universal interface & downtime complaints) is that much of the combat feels so limited in terms of what mechanics I can exploit. I'm a very control-oriented player but almost all the real battlefield-affecting skills are on 15 second CDs or longer. Since elite mobs get you in oh-shit situations way more often than once every 15 seconds, I feel forced to either make half my skill bar be defensive things that I'm just waiting for the mobs to force me to use, or have my entire battle strategy revolve around running awaaaaaaaay.

Just looking at wizard skills compared to D2 - Frost Nova lost its spamability, Blizzard doesn't stack and doesn't freeze, Teleport lost its spammability (okay, this one is probably justifiable), Charged Bolt (whatever it's called now) can't be amped up to fire 20 bolts at a time to cover half the screen. I tried making a Paralysis build but it procs waaay less than the 8% chance advertised; forum chatter confirmed that it's useless. All that's left to keep the character interesting is to try a high-crit build but I'm not sure with what since Critical Mass doesn't unlock for another 10 levels. Any random high-AP-cost thing along with AP return, I guess - but I have little faith that the listed AP return isn't going to be cut by 90% because I dared to try to maximize it's usefulness with an AoE ability.

My monk is in the same boat (with the exception of a wonky build I'll post in the monk thread later); all I can do in a typical non-near-death fight situation is spam my boring spirit builder and maybe keep up Exploding Palm because literally every single other skill either has a CD, is a knockback, is passive, or is utility of questionable usefulness. For all the options, there's just nothing to make the fight interesting in any situation where I'm not about to get my ass handed to me.

Monsters in a PvE game shouldn't have better CC than I do, is what I'm saying.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on May 31, 2012, 12:36:41 AM
Monsters in a PvE game shouldn't have better CC than I do, is what I'm saying.

Some of the monster combos in Hell + are just not fun to fight. Tonight I got a demonic tremor (the large Act 3 monsters with 2 big claws that periodically shield themselves and then enrage) with Shield, Waller, and Immunity. Nothing says 'fun' like enemies that are immune to damage for 95% of the fight and trap you in melee range for 100% of it so you can twiddle your thumbs and watch your health bar drop. After throwing my barbarian's corpse at them a few times in legitimate attempts to win, I suicided a few more times to kill the ballista and then moved on.

For large portions of act 2 and 3 Hell I feel like I need 3-4 defensive abilities to not instantly die vs some combos which just isn't very fun compared to the balanced mix of offense/defensive abilities I was using for NM. Looking at successful Inferno builds for barb, they're practically only using defensive abilities. No thanks.

A pretty fool-proof strategy for every boss in Hell also seems to be taking all the long-cooldown high-power barb attacks (earthquake, call of the ancients, wrath of the berserker), using them, and then kitting until they come off cooldown again. It's effective but no fun.

Most of my complaints about Diablo 3 thus far have been about non-gameplay problems: loot, the AH, the length/ambition of the campaign.  As of later Acts in Hell I'm just not having fun with the gameplay either, which seems to be a pretty accurate (and much faster/less grindy) preview of Inferno.

I don't think Diablo 2 was much different in this regard. Hell mobs were still cheap and you were shoe-horned into a few viable builds. The difference is that I had a ton of incentive to keep rolling new characters instead of farming Hell in Diablo 2, and that incentive isn't really there in Diablo 3 due to the loot and (overall good) skill changes. I'll probably stick it out for another 2 levels to get to 60 and finish Act 4 Hell, or maybe I'll just get a friend or two to help since pre-Inferno bringing more players makes things quite a bit easier. After that I think I'm done.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on May 31, 2012, 12:44:20 AM
I say this with love, but until Australia gets a stronger development community, you're probably going to get the short end of some sticks both on lag/downtime and pricing (for reasons I don't get).

I don't disagree with you at all. It's why I rate Valve over Blizzard (other than the fact that publishers using Steam often gouge Aussies). At least Steam files are cached on Aussie servers and we can play Valve games on Aussie servers.
Kind of sad that Team Fortress seems to be Australia's only real PC game (until the team moved to the US under Valve for TFC etc). I'm not going to admit that we were responsible for the abortion that was Tribes: Vengeance.

What I really would love to see is Aussie/NZ sheep-shaggers having a server cluster on our home soil. By now surely Blizzard could set up 2-3 WoW/SC2/D3 clusters for us to play on.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 31, 2012, 02:31:24 AM
Except they wouldn't work.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 31, 2012, 06:11:15 AM
Do yall play with other people? Because if you don't I can understand some of the frustration. If you do and still hate what's going on? I think you might just hate fun.

I do play with other people and all through nightmare I had a blast but as said above once you get past that it's all about taking every defensive talent and whittling away mob health bars and kiting. That's just not fun gameplay to me, no matter how many people I play with.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 31, 2012, 06:35:34 AM
If you're playing a Barb, I recommend getting a Demon Hunter friend, and/or some wizards. Ask Muffin, he'll tell you. HILARITY!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on May 31, 2012, 06:37:00 AM
I tolerate the game with multiple people, but it's pretty much what Lakov talks about. A shitty elite pack rolls up on you, and you're just kiting shit around whittling away at it very slowly. Meh.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 31, 2012, 06:59:08 AM
I hit a wall on both WD and monk when I hit Hell level. The WD is still there, the monk I took to 60 since it was more fun. Monks have more built in damage mitigation so I didn't have to kite constantly. (WDs need some loving, I think. Mine's on the shelf for now.)

Still, I'd upgrade one piece of armor at a time from the AH, and get a little further. (Working on achievements helped avoid the boredom of farming). I had fun getting through Hell level.

I never expected to play Inferno level after hearing it described. It's not for me.

I'm doing fine in Act 1 as long as I avoid blue packs. If I don't outrun a blue pack, I'm dead. I might be able to progress with different gear but that remains to be seen as to whether I even want to continue in Inferno. It does rather feel like banging my head against a wall.

I do want to bring up other characters. DH or Wiz or Barb. I'll work on my WD when they tweak it enough that I find it fun, or if I learn to play it so that it is fun. It could well be my own lack of understanding/ability that is at fault here.

It's a lot more fun to play with other people than alone.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 31, 2012, 07:01:10 AM


I'm doing fine in Act 1 as long as I avoid blue packs. If I don't outrun a blue pack, I'm dead. I might be able to progress with different gear but that remains to be seen as to whether I even want to continue in Inferno. It does rather feel like banging my head against a wall.


If you want to try, start collecting gear with + all resist on it until you've got 200-250 resist all, helps enormously.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on May 31, 2012, 07:07:50 AM


I'm doing fine in Act 1 as long as I avoid blue packs. If I don't outrun a blue pack, I'm dead. I might be able to progress with different gear but that remains to be seen as to whether I even want to continue in Inferno. It does rather feel like banging my head against a wall.


If you want to try, start collecting gear with + all resist on it until you've got 200-250 resist all, helps enormously.

Monks have this cool ability that makes one resistant to everything equivalent to one's highest resists. So I've been stacking fire resistance gear, and I think I'm up to 175 or something. Upgrading at 1mil apiece is still out of my price range, but I do intend to do it.

I'm having fun completing achievements in hell level and cutting through that crap like buttah after remembering my struggle with those mobs. Even blue packs go down fast there now.

Isn't everybody looking for +all resist gear? +Fire resist is expensive enough, I imagine +all resist must be insanely priced.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Raknor on May 31, 2012, 07:32:14 AM
I haven't found resist all gear being overly expensive if you're willing to spend a little while searching the AH.  I usually set a pretty tight filter for what I'm looking for and hit refresh a few times while I'm around the house.  Fri-Sun I usually get some amazing deals. As with anything worth a damn on the AH it sells quick so don't take too long to weigh your options.

At the end of the evening I also expand the filter into more expensive stuff an look for people with low buyouts and little time remaining.  Got two pieces of +56 resist all gear last night for 50k when they had buy outs of 350.  Both had around 3 to 4 hours left on them when I went to bed. Worst that could happen is that I got my money back in the morning.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on May 31, 2012, 08:30:59 AM
getting more int-oriented pieces might help with resists and be cheaper in general.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: statisticalfool on May 31, 2012, 08:45:32 AM
1 pt of Resist All is worth 10 points of int, so if you're not scaling off int, then resist all is much better.




Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 31, 2012, 08:54:08 AM
Do yall play with other people? Because if you don't I can understand some of the frustration. If you do and still hate what's going on? I think you might just hate fun.

It's a single player game for frak's sake! It shouldn't have login screens or lag or disconnects or downtimes and you shouldn't need friends or random players to enjoy it!

At least with other franchises the multiplayer is an add on you can simply ignore...

Paelos it's nice that you like the game as is but please don't evangelize. It's Diablo it should be a single player game first  and multiplayer a distant second or it should have been multiplayer all the way.

Right now it's both but neither the first or the second aspect really work.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 31, 2012, 09:06:31 AM
Who is evangelizing? I ask questions and suggest ways to improve things if you're not having as much fun.

In the same way, I think you are determined to hate the game because it's online. If that's the case, ok, but we knew about this for a long time. Obviously, if the servers in Europe are down and you can't play the game, you should ask for your money back, return the product, and let Blizzard know why.

Also, is there a problem with European people playing with American versions of the game? I've read something about this recently.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 31, 2012, 09:12:45 AM
The problem is your characters - and more importantly - gold and stash don't transfer between the two.

Issue: still amusing.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on May 31, 2012, 10:42:11 AM
The EU servers are, yet again, down for the second time in two days at prime time. If it's like last night, they will be down the entire night.

Two weeks after launch.

This is actually *worse* that when they launched WoW - 7 years ago.

Totally and utterly unacceptable at this point. Ridiculously so.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 31, 2012, 10:50:05 AM
It appears it's a login server problem, not a game server problem. That makes it all the more dumb.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Amaron on May 31, 2012, 11:21:46 AM
It appears it's a login server problem, not a game server problem. That makes it all the more dumb.

Agreed.  Login server should be fairly standard plug and play software for them by now.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 31, 2012, 11:22:49 AM
I also find it hilarious that the login server is bogging down like crazy because people are trying to get through the EULA.   :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 31, 2012, 11:30:34 AM
It's Diablo it should be a single player game first

It never has been before. Maybe Diablo 1, but multiplayer through battle.net was *definitely* Blizzard's focus with D2.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on May 31, 2012, 11:35:31 AM
Horseshit.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Thrawn on May 31, 2012, 11:38:54 AM
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/8/8/sound-and-fury/ (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/8/8/sound-and-fury/)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 31, 2012, 11:53:00 AM
Horseshit.


I think it is what they saw as the 'real' game and it was where all their focus was. That doesn't necessarily mean that their user base in general saw it that way, but I am pretty certain that is how Blizzard saw it.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: sickrubik on May 31, 2012, 11:55:39 AM
With all the improvements to Battle.Net that came with D2 and LOD, including the Ladder system, I'd have to agree with Ingmar.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Reg on May 31, 2012, 11:59:32 AM
It's the same clear thinking that made them decide that forcing everyone to join the General chat channel every time they log in was a good idea.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on May 31, 2012, 12:07:45 PM
Horseshit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrli-by8oOU

Jay Wilson disagrees.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 31, 2012, 12:48:53 PM
It's the same clear thinking that made them decide that forcing everyone to join the General chat channel every time they log in was a good idea.

That's just Billy. He works over there and keeps slipping general chat stuff. He's a character, he is. Always good for an all caps racist threat in d00dspeak, that Billy.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on May 31, 2012, 01:14:19 PM
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/8/8/sound-and-fury/ (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/8/8/sound-and-fury/)

Penny Arcade once more leaping to the defense of a game company over their readership. Go Figure.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 31, 2012, 01:16:50 PM
The Euro servers STILL don't work. This is honestly the biggest clownshoes game I have ever experienced.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Falconeer on May 31, 2012, 01:21:53 PM
The euro servers still don't work. I am speechless. Seriously, speechless.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: sickrubik on May 31, 2012, 01:44:54 PM
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/8/8/sound-and-fury/ (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/8/8/sound-and-fury/)

Penny Arcade once more leaping to the defense of a game company over their readership. Go Figure.


How is that a defense of the company? That seems to be mocking people that threaten but never follow through, and that has proven to be true for years now.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on May 31, 2012, 02:04:35 PM
Per a notice an hour ago, the login servers are up in Euro again?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on May 31, 2012, 02:16:06 PM
Some reading material while y'all are down:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=13157.msg960508#msg960508


How indeed, Tan.  How indeed.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on May 31, 2012, 02:22:31 PM
Per a notice an hour ago, the login servers are up in Euro again?

It's past midnight here, so good for them I guess. I'm going to bed.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on May 31, 2012, 03:07:11 PM
I have a pair of blue bracers with 15% MF that I bought 4 days ago. Found a replacement so I don't need them anymore. I've been trying to sell them on the AH for 4 days now and every time I try (probably 20 times by now) I get an error and it won't post.

I can post other items fine. I can buy items. Wtf...

edit: turns out the item said it was max durability (46/46) but wasn't....? I had to repair it for 1 gold...


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on May 31, 2012, 03:22:49 PM
Per a notice an hour ago, the login servers are up in Euro again?

"There's an error conecting to Battle.net (Error 300something)"

Even if you could login you'd be able to play two/three hours tops as per login screen notice "we'll be doing maintenance from 3 am CEST to approx. 11 am CEST to prepare for applying patch 1.02a"

I'll apply for a full refund now even though there is no legal recourse to do so because I'm really fed up with this bullshit.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Falconeer on May 31, 2012, 03:41:37 PM
Yeah, EU servers down again. 0.40am CEST  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 31, 2012, 03:43:48 PM
Weird. Our problems on the US servers are mostly gone after the first week.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on May 31, 2012, 04:03:35 PM
So an update to the extent some people will go to not play the game. Since this morning's azmodean run experience neft, the opening chapter in act 4 is the new rush event. People log in, do this event then quit the party and run it again. Have fun folks.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on May 31, 2012, 04:04:58 PM
So an update to the extent some people will go to not play the game. Since this morning's azmodean run experience neft, the opening chapter in act 4 is the new rush event. People log in, do this event then quit the party and run it again. Have fun folks.



Pindleskin all over again basically.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on May 31, 2012, 04:09:40 PM
So an update to the extent some people will go to not play the game. Since this morning's azmodean run experience neft, the opening chapter in act 4 is the new rush event. People log in, do this event then quit the party and run it again. Have fun folks.



Pindleskin all over again basically.

Except Pindle was mostly for loot this is for gold and exp.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on May 31, 2012, 04:35:29 PM
Act III: Turning the Tide can be done for items and exp but the gold isn't that great. There is an event right outside of the waypoint you can grind.

I need something to finish out Hell. I get shadow Diablo down to half but that's as far as I get.

FAKEDIT: Damn, mirror image. It almost felt like cheating to beat Diablo that way. On to Inferno!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on May 31, 2012, 05:29:41 PM
Except Pindle was mostly for loot this is for gold and exp.

gold = loot in D3.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: caladein on May 31, 2012, 05:33:11 PM
So an update to the extent some people will go to not play the game. Since this morning's azmodean run experience neft, the opening chapter in act 4 is the new rush event. People log in, do this event then quit the party and run it again. Have fun folks.

Not so much new as again.  They already nerfed that boss a while back as that's what people were doing.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on June 01, 2012, 12:34:16 AM
I really hate the "you know you'll all buy it and play it anyway!" attitude. I can't think of a single game I bashed then bought. Willpower ftw.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on June 01, 2012, 12:35:55 AM
In the same way, I think you are determined to hate the game because it's online.

Is the problem that the game is online, or is the problem that the AH undermines the loot game, the servers are often down, when they are up they lag, etc?

PSO was a similar online game that had zero of these problems.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: caladein on June 01, 2012, 01:32:20 AM
I really hate the "you know you'll all buy it and play it anyway!" attitude. I can't think of a single game I bashed then bought. Willpower ftw.

It's still true a lot of the time.  The vast majority of people who are interested enough in most titles (outside of those that have their own pre-established hater contingent) to keep up with, much less flip their shit over, features/systems/etc. well in advance of release are probably really looking forward to that game.

Will that stop some of them from buying it?  Sure, but as a population it's already mostly money in the bank to start with.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 01, 2012, 01:38:27 AM
On the flipside of that, I'm massively looking forward to the Zerg campaign of Starcraft 2.

I am not going to buy it due to this shite.  I've paid these assclowns enough money.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on June 01, 2012, 02:57:37 AM
Well, I for One asked for a refund on grounds of our customer laws. Lets See how that works. At least they might realize that this is unacceptable behaviour to their European customers. If they use online only schemes, they at least should See that they work.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 01, 2012, 03:06:31 AM
Good for you, my little alt.  I can't do that because the wife won't let me (apparently 5 minutes a day is good enough, but that's marriage for you).

Let me know how you get on.  I'd be keen to know of any success.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on June 01, 2012, 03:09:58 AM
I See my chances as slim to nonexistant, but I will keep you posted. What are Alts for, if Not trying to do the things you can't do with your Main  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on June 01, 2012, 03:14:00 AM
I See my chances as slim to nonexistant, but I will keep you posted. What are Alts for, if Not trying to do the things you can't do with your Main  :awesome_for_real:

If you are good maybe he will twink you! :grin:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ghambit on June 01, 2012, 06:59:52 AM
I see where this thread is going.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lantyssa on June 01, 2012, 07:32:40 AM
There are so many places this could go...


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 01, 2012, 08:04:57 AM
Let's back up to what's important to me, me.

I'm actually having fun as a wizard now and stacking gold find like a madman.  Currently level 38 with 159% gold find and I have to say, seeing piles of 600 gold is a lot of fun.  Really makes the AH metagame more palatable when you have enough gold to tweak your builds.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on June 01, 2012, 08:11:58 AM
Autojoining General is a severe annoyance.  I'm seeing gold spam ads, people linking items to sell, people trolling about specs, etc.

What I want is simple.  Do not force me to autojoin General chat, Blizzard.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 01, 2012, 08:15:56 AM
From Zarhym:

"Your chat settings will be saved in a future update so that you don't have to leave General chat each time you fire up a new game."

Like I said, they would reverse that position within the week.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on June 01, 2012, 08:21:02 AM
That update literally cannot happen soon enough.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on June 01, 2012, 08:40:43 AM
Autojoining General is a severe annoyance.  I'm seeing gold spam ads, people linking items to sell, people trolling about specs, etc.

What I want is simple.  Do not force me to autojoin General chat, Blizzard.

Yes but if you put nothing but gold sellers and trolls in a channel by themselves.... Christ man do you even know what will happen to the world then?? THINK MAN! You are out to doom us all.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 01, 2012, 08:41:42 AM
Or they just eat eachother.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on June 01, 2012, 09:51:05 AM
Quarter to six on a Friday evening, get kicked from my game with a wierd error message and now cannot log into the servers at all. Looks like they are down for everyone. Again.

I never thought I'd stop being a blizzard fan boy, but this is just shit. For a game that took 6 years to make its completely amateur hour in almost every way. So utterly disappointing.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: apocrypha on June 01, 2012, 10:02:56 AM
Yep, EU login servers are b0rked again.

Total fucking clownshoes.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on June 01, 2012, 10:35:04 AM
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6283/gorgon.png)

Fuck you Gorgon. Fuck you and your fast invulnerable arcane enchanted minions.  :heartbreak: :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on June 01, 2012, 10:38:03 AM
Yep, EU login servers are b0rked again.

Total fucking clownshoes.

For the THIRD night in a row? Thank goodness I'm sitting in a movie theater waiting for Prometheus to start...


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: sickrubik on June 01, 2012, 10:52:53 AM
TURN OFF YOUR CELL PHONE, GAWD.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on June 01, 2012, 10:56:36 AM
TURN OFF YOUR CELL PHONE, GAWD.

 :heart:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on June 01, 2012, 11:06:54 AM
The shit is different with the EU systems than the US? There's nothing you can do that involves nights of long downtime to fix shit. A long downtime is a DB change or three. New gear is downtime in a bit for the cut/addition. Every night for a few hours is.. what, your core switches keep lighting on fire?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on June 01, 2012, 12:09:22 PM
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6283/gorgon.png)

Fuck you Gorgon. Fuck you and your fast invulnerable arcane enchanted minions.  :heartbreak: :heartbreak:

Where were those?   :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on June 01, 2012, 12:10:07 PM
Hell Act 3 from the looks of it.

Invulnerable minions can be a serious pain.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on June 01, 2012, 12:28:03 PM
Yups, they start appearing frequently in Act III Hell - The Breached Keep

Those and Soul Rippers or Magesbane as I have christened them....  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on June 01, 2012, 12:34:25 PM
Well, at least wizards have disintegrate to shoot the guy through his invulnerable minions!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lantyssa on June 01, 2012, 12:36:23 PM
I'm sure the downtime is to fix those guys. ;D


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on June 01, 2012, 01:07:15 PM
TURN OFF YOUR CELL PHONE, GAWD.

No way dude, how else am I supposed to last through 30 minutes of horrible commercials. Movie was great btw.  :drillf:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on June 01, 2012, 04:34:51 PM
I'm sure the downtime is to fix those guys. ;D

<Code Bug>
[Invulnerable Minions  Arcane Enchanted  Vortex  Molten]


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on June 01, 2012, 04:41:36 PM
You know, I've never minded fire chains much since they're easier to avoid. That was until I got teleporting fire chains. :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on June 01, 2012, 04:42:40 PM
Whether or not fire chains are a problem is really dependent on the base monster type. Like fire chain skeleton archers, oh noes, so scary. But fire chain imps or desert wasps are  :ye_gods:.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on June 01, 2012, 04:45:06 PM
Fire chain imps are an abomination before the Lord.  :heartbreak:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lightstalker on June 01, 2012, 04:56:09 PM
Vortex/Teleporter + Plagued/Molten/Defiler + Fire Chain/Frozen/Arcane is pretty painful.

Only a few mob types aren't dangerous with abilities from those classes. 

Add Illusionist, Horde, Extra Fast, or Vampiric for maximum fun.  Waller is usually only bad in combo and an already tight space, getting walled into a horde so you cannot physically move is an unfun death with any of the ground/area effect kill abilities. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 01, 2012, 07:20:03 PM
Plagued Vortex Arcane Waller

 :sad_panda:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on June 01, 2012, 09:25:12 PM
Am I the only one who has trouble with mortar?   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Nonentity on June 01, 2012, 10:11:07 PM
Am I the only one who has trouble with mortar?   :oh_i_see:

Mortar is the bane of ranged classes.

I had mortar vortex waller invulnerable minions. Barf.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 02, 2012, 06:39:24 AM
Just got a hint popup that you can combine pages to form tomes.

Tried it, looked at the forums, 'no you can't, that's a popup from beta they never removed'.

Who fucking made this shite ?  What the fuck happened to Blizzard ?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mac on June 02, 2012, 06:52:03 AM
Enrage timers on elite packs in Inferno.

 :uhrr:



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 02, 2012, 07:44:30 AM
Who fucking made this shite ?  What the fuck happened to Blizzard ?

Bobby Kotick ate their souls.  And people said that would never happen. Ha!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on June 02, 2012, 09:57:32 AM
That would be awesome if you could combine pages to make tomes.  Then again, maybe they removed that feature because of the requirement for pages to combine gems.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on June 02, 2012, 12:12:36 PM
Lagged out of my single player game twice in a 15 minute period.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 02, 2012, 01:24:33 PM
I'm stuck at retrieving hero now.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on June 02, 2012, 01:55:30 PM
I'm stuck at retrieving hero now.

It's because the EU servers work again. Can't have the game work everywhere at once.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: caladein on June 02, 2012, 07:06:00 PM
Enrage timers on elite packs in Inferno.

 :uhrr:

Enrage timers are not exclusive to Inferno.  I've ran up against them in full Hell games before, haven't tried to hit them in other difficulties.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MournelitheCalix on June 02, 2012, 07:50:31 PM
I wish I could get to inferno, I am having super problems dying now in nightmare.  Maybe it's just me but it sure seems like the enemies have way too many hps in nightmare.  I have an 88.5 dps bow and it feels like carple tunnel is setting in from all the button mashing that I have been having to do killing some of the named critters.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 02, 2012, 08:10:39 PM
I wish I could get to inferno, I am having super problems dying now in nightmare.  Maybe it's just me but it sure seems like the enemies have way too many hps in nightmare.  I have an 88.5 dps bow and it feels like carple tunnel is setting in from all the button mashing that I have been having to do killing some of the named critters.

What class are you and what is your other gear like?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on June 03, 2012, 02:18:25 AM
Solo Nightmare Belial today on my Barbarian.

Didn't work up a sweat phase 1 and 2.

Phase 3 I have the whirlwind out of green-shit thing happening and Bel down to 75% and the lag-meter goes red and I stand there with an animation and no damage happening. Mouse over the red and I'm at 1400 ping.

3 minutes later I die. I wasn't the only one as General Chat had the same complaints about lag spike.

gg always online SP game.

I then get into a 4 man Belial and DPS the crap out of Bel, no-one dies, pick up loot and go home. 350 ping

My biggest gripe is that I'm now an AH junkie =D



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Kageru on June 03, 2012, 04:10:45 AM
Solo Nightmare Belial today on my Barbarian.

Didn't work up a sweat phase 1 and 2.

Phase 3 I have the whirlwind out of green-shit thing happening and Bel down to 75% and the lag-meter goes red and I stand there with an animation and no damage happening. Mouse over the red and I'm at 1400 ping.

3 minutes later I die. I wasn't the only one as General Chat had the same complaints about lag spike.

gg always online SP game.

... I thought the always online was only for authentication. Does that mean an SP game is actually hosted on the US servers?

(edit)

Never-mind, didn't take too long to find a thread (well, many threads) on the blizzard forums explaining that SP diablo would be played with 300-500ms lag for me. Which looks like fun when I read about all these one hit kill mobs and AoE attacks. Apparently lot's of Aussies returning it as "unfit for purpose" and I can see why.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 03, 2012, 04:57:39 AM
 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 03, 2012, 06:03:03 AM
I wish I could get to inferno, I am having super problems dying now in nightmare.  Maybe it's just me but it sure seems like the enemies have way too many hps in nightmare.  I have an 88.5 dps bow and it feels like carple tunnel is setting in from all the button mashing that I have been having to do killing some of the named critters.

What act? I had an 76dps item at the beginning of Act2 but about halfway through I needed to find an upgrade. Gemmed I was able to hit 96dps and things got easier.   Now that I'm in Act 3 I'm finding that's slowing down as well and the AH shows me that the top-end weaps are 145dps.  So, time to grind or buy again.

Also, just hold down the mouse buttons you don't have to clickfest as it's just as fast on autofire.  Unless you mean your protective and escape buttons, in which case, ow.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on June 03, 2012, 06:08:18 AM
I wouldn't bother looking forward to inferno. I did, and actually it just shows off some of the most outrageous design flaws in the game. Nothing like kiting a mob round a tree for 10 minutes to kill it to farm golds to buy upgrades from the AH.

That's the core of what the Diablo series has always been about after all!

 :ye_gods:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: LK on June 03, 2012, 08:01:40 AM
I couldn't resist. It sums up my complaint with the entire foundation of the experience.

(http://i.imgur.com/9TFCe.jpg)

Also, Korean Offices raided (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/01/blizzard-offices-raided-over-diablo-3-refund-policy-after-error-37-strikes-korean-gamers/).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on June 03, 2012, 10:01:07 AM
So, here is my answer. As I thought, no Money back. But I'm heartened they Invested in servers instead of spellcheckers and are reusing answers for different customers to recycle (since I'm Not Brett)


--- Quote

   Greetings Brett
  
   First off i wish to apologise for the delay in the replying, as you are aware we are working on some technical and logistical issues effecting our diablo community right now.
  
   I can very much understand your frustration and i would like to assure you that we are taking the situation very serious, we are have updated both software and hardware and will continue to do so, however the additional hardware needs to be delivered to us and needs to be installed and set up, this i am afraid  takes a little time as the high end servers we use are not something you just go and buy in a store as i am sure you can understand. :)
  
   The simple truth is that the demand for the game was way beyond any predictions, the game had sold out almost everywhere in numbers that may have been expected in the first 6 months, not the first 6 days,
  
   The servers are not broken however, i thought i would point this out, they are simply at capacity, that is why we are pushing to get the additional hardware installed and set up just as soon as it arrives. :)
  
   Regarding your request for a refund, i am afraid hat this is will not be possible as diablo is covered by a 3 day digital refund policy,
  
   Regards,
   Pierre P.
   European Customer SupportTeam
   Blizzard Europe


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 03, 2012, 10:14:14 AM
Again, I'm gonna go with Horseshit.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: El Gallo on June 03, 2012, 10:21:50 AM
Been at inferno a while now and just find it harder and harder to find reasons to log in.  Flipping shit over and over at the AH seems to be the only way to gear for later inferno acts in anything approaching a reasonable amount of time.  But if I thought looking at a pricing spreadsheet was compelling gameplay, I'd play EVE.  

Didn't have much time to game today, and I decided to spend it doing the WoW Darkmoon dailies for the nth time rather than do yet another inferno butcher run to get shit gear to sell to a vendor that might just pay my repair costs from dying to bullshit. I'm pretty sure the WoW dailies will be more engaging and rewarding.  Of course, I can't tell for sure because the WoW servers are unreachable for some reason.  So I decided to bitch here instead.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 03, 2012, 10:34:50 AM
Escalate it, Teb.  Report it to whatever authorities the EU has to cover this kind of thing.  I'd chuckle to see the same thing happen in the EU that just happened in S. Korea.

  Of course, I can't tell for sure because the WoW servers are unreachable for some reason.  So I decided to bitch here instead.

I was in the middle of doing the same thing when they crashed on me, too.   The MoP beta was up but not the normal servers. Hooray.   Now off to the lawn.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: LK on June 03, 2012, 11:17:08 AM
My friend got a refund on his digital purchase of Diablo III. He also cannot use that Battle.net account to repurchase Diablo III. This has pissed him off.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on June 03, 2012, 11:27:45 AM
My friend got a refund on his digital purchase of Diablo III. He also cannot use that Battle.net account to repurchase Diablo III. This has pissed him off.

That.. seems entirely logical to me?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: LK on June 03, 2012, 12:05:08 PM
To me as well, but he couldn't be convinced that such policies make sense. I guess my point is that my friend is an idiot.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 03, 2012, 12:14:56 PM
To me as well, but he couldn't be convinced that such policies make sense. I guess my point is that my friend is an idiot.

Maybe he wants his money back for now, but wants to retain the option of getting back into D3 when/if Bilzzard gets their act together.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 03, 2012, 01:09:01 PM
Well I got basically the same reply as Tebonas did, down to the nice and inconsiderate little detail of being addressed with a wrong name. According to them I'm several Michaels since they keep adressing me not only by using the wrong name but also by using the plural form. Unfortunately I'm not even one Michael let alone several of them.

This could be easily seen by the fact that the ticketing system included my full name in the mail right at the start. That's quality customers service.

Basically their return policy is 72 hours if you activated an account or 14 days if you didn't so they apologize for my inconvenience but ensure me that they are working hard on fixing those issues.

So I'm totally imagining not being able to log into the game for the fifth day in a row.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tannhauser on June 03, 2012, 03:11:23 PM
Five days?  That's fucking crazyballs. 

Remember folks, they didn't expect this much success!  It's not as if D3 is a AAA title that some have waited 11 years for and is a sequel to one of the most legendary PC games of all time!  No sir, just a little indie title only hipsters have heard of. 




Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 03, 2012, 03:27:09 PM
It's not even that.  I GET the cost analysis of overdoing it and coming up short.

But I simply don't fucking believe that they didn't have a plan for quickly ramping up servers.  That's either an utter fucking lie or it's a group of assholes in charge that make my gran look stunningly competant.

And she's dead.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on June 03, 2012, 04:45:36 PM
Does that stop her from being competent?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on June 03, 2012, 06:00:53 PM
Complain to the BBB. Seriously.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 03, 2012, 07:46:47 PM
It's not even that.  I GET the cost analysis of overdoing it and coming up short.

But I simply don't fucking believe that they didn't have a plan for quickly ramping up servers.  That's either an utter fucking lie or it's a group of assholes in charge that make my gran look stunningly competant.

And she's dead.


/agree. With WoW it was understandable that no one foresaw the popluarity that it would accrue.

D3, there's no excuse.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: LK on June 03, 2012, 08:08:03 PM
Complain to the BBB. Seriously.

As if gamers check with the BBB.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on June 03, 2012, 08:25:58 PM
It doesn't matter if gamers check. If enough people complain to the BBB and they make a public proclamation that gives Blizzard a PR black eye and lights a fire under their ass to improve things, offer refunds, etc.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 03, 2012, 11:00:20 PM
It doesn't matter if gamers check. If enough people complain to the BBB and they make a public proclamation that gives Blizzard a PR black eye and lights a fire under their ass to improve things, offer refunds, etc.

Has your buying choices ever been influenced by a BBB report? Hell, does anyone even pay attention to the BBB when they're not contemplating reporting something?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: ezrast on June 03, 2012, 11:25:21 PM
I use it before giving billing info to potentially skeevy websites; in my (limited) experience legit businesses don't let their BBB rating tank. Blizzard has an A+ rating, is BBB accredited, and is giving instructions on how to get a refund to people who complain (you can see others' complaints and their resolutions here (http://www.la.bbb.org/business-reviews/Online-Gaming-Websites/Blizzard-Entertainment-in-Irvine-CA-13050668)).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 04, 2012, 12:43:23 AM
Quick question :  Can our US friends buy gems and patterns ?  Is it just the Euros that can't ?



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Trippy on June 04, 2012, 01:38:31 AM
Can't buy Gems. Not sure about "patterns". Do you mean Pages & Recipes? If so, it doesn't appear that we can buy those either (I only spot checked some of the items).



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on June 04, 2012, 01:54:14 AM
Commodities auctions are still disabled everywhere.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 04, 2012, 04:50:09 AM
Yeah, anything that isn't a weapon or armor can't be traded on the AH.  I was trying to find out if it was reasonable to destroy rather than vendor blues now found you can't get the essences in search results.    I suppose that's one way to try and force people to use the jewelcrafter.  My stash is filling up with shit gems but it doesn't make sense to upgrade due to costs.  I guess I'm supposed to vendor them.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on June 04, 2012, 04:55:06 AM
Yeah, anything that isn't a weapon or armor can't be traded on the AH.  I was trying to find out if it was reasonable to destroy rather than vendor blues now found you can't get the essences in search results.    I suppose that's one way to try and force people to use the jewelcrafter.  My stash is filling up with shit gems but it doesn't make sense to upgrade due to costs.  I guess I'm supposed to vendor them.

Last time the commodity AH was up it was far better to vendor blues than to sell the essences*. And I am not quite sure, but I think to recall reading that gem-upgrading costs will be fixed.

Edit:

*To back that up with numbers, "Subtles Essences" were selling for 26 gold each.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ceryse on June 04, 2012, 05:00:06 AM
Wow, all these issues. Glad I didn't buy D3 (the AH and online-only raised one too many flags for me and what I want in my Diablo) despite the fact I still play D2 regularly. Didn't think it would be this bad, though.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 04, 2012, 05:07:33 AM
I'm entirely sure there is nothing of a technical nature wrong with the commodities AH.

I suspect they shut it down because it made the game trivial.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on June 04, 2012, 05:38:50 AM
Fine with me, as long as they dont mess with my plan to quit my job and earn my living by selling Diablo loot.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Murgos on June 04, 2012, 05:41:54 AM
Wow, all these issues. Glad I didn't buy D3 (the AH and online-only raised one too many flags for me and what I want in my Diablo) despite the fact I still play D2 regularly. Didn't think it would be this bad, though.

You're reading the headlines in the news paper, "EVERYTHING IS HORRIBLE, WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!"  Stop reading the headlines, turn off the talking heads and give the game a shot.  If you love D2 there is nothing here that's not at least as good (IMO) and generally better than it was there.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on June 04, 2012, 05:49:10 AM
If you are Not European and are therefor unable to Play during Prime Times, that is.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Murgos on June 04, 2012, 05:56:11 AM
If you are Not European and are therefor unable to Play during Prime Times, that is.

Obviously.  No one cares about 3rd world problems, I'm surprised you ever felt the need to mention it.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 04, 2012, 06:03:50 AM
I'd just like to point out that EU players couldn't play the game AT ALL for the better part of last week.

That's not just a tempest in a teacup by doomsayers and talking heads.

They had huge problems all over the world and simply decided to fix them for US players first. Therefore I'm glad that the US playerbase is now OK and doesn't have any game breaking issues but "Ah, problems, we've dismissed that claim" seems to be a bit premature and also patronizing.

Since the two weeks around pentecost have bank holidays and are school holidays in most of Europe (and also memorial day wekend in the US) I expect the situation to continue to be bad at least until school starts again or Blizzard get's its head out of its collective arse and fixes issues for everyone else too and nut just for US players.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 04, 2012, 06:21:55 AM
Yeah, anything that isn't a weapon or armor can't be traded on the AH.  I was trying to find out if it was reasonable to destroy rather than vendor blues now found you can't get the essences in search results.    I suppose that's one way to try and force people to use the jewelcrafter.  My stash is filling up with shit gems but it doesn't make sense to upgrade due to costs.  I guess I'm supposed to vendor them.

Last time the commodity AH was up it was far better to vendor blues than to sell the essences*. And I am not quite sure, but I think to recall reading that gem-upgrading costs will be fixed.

Edit:

*To back that up with numbers, "Subtles Essences" were selling for 26 gold each.

Oh yeah, I'm quite aware of that.  I was wanting to see if the prices had gone up at all or if they were still down in the 'lol who does that' range.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 04, 2012, 07:07:11 AM
I'm entirely sure there is nothing of a technical nature wrong with the commodities AH.

I suspect they shut it down because it made the game trivial.


I don't know about that.  When it was up, it was impossible to use. I suspect it had problems because it had such a shitty interface. Whoever thought the design for the auction system for gems was sufficient is an idiot.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 04, 2012, 07:23:20 AM
Wow, all these issues. Glad I didn't buy D3 (the AH and online-only raised one too many flags for me and what I want in my Diablo) despite the fact I still play D2 regularly. Didn't think it would be this bad, though.

You're reading the headlines in the news paper, "EVERYTHING IS HORRIBLE, WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!"  Stop reading the headlines, turn off the talking heads and give the game a shot.  If you love D2 there is nothing here that's not at least as good (IMO) and generally better than it was there.

This is excellent advice.  Please, by all means sink 60 of your hard earned chunks into a game that blows same.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on June 04, 2012, 07:42:27 AM
Wow, all these issues. Glad I didn't buy D3 (the AH and online-only raised one too many flags for me and what I want in my Diablo) despite the fact I still play D2 regularly. Didn't think it would be this bad, though.

You're reading the headlines in the news paper, "EVERYTHING IS HORRIBLE, WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!"  Stop reading the headlines, turn off the talking heads and give the game a shot.  If you love D2 there is nothing here that's not at least as good (IMO) and generally better than it was there.

This is excellent advice.  Please, by all means sink 60 of your hard earned chunks into a game that blows same.


Err, isn't there a free demo thing up for download?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 04, 2012, 07:43:57 AM
I think that's only if you have a key from a preorder user. Unless they recently added it.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 04, 2012, 07:51:48 AM
I would be completely pissed off if the US servers were like the Euro servers. Since they haven't been down for the most part, I've been able to play the game and enjoy it more than I ever enjoyed D2 (which I thought was really fun).

Are the US servers too laggy for Europeans to play on?

Do companies outsource running the servers or what? What explains the difference in how well/poorly the US/Euro servers are?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on June 04, 2012, 07:58:02 AM
I think that's only if you have a key from a preorder user. Unless they recently added it.

Aha, found it. It's a pass from an owner for 30 days, so in two weeks the starter edition should be live for general use. Well then!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on June 04, 2012, 08:03:34 AM
I would be completely pissed off if the US servers were like the Euro servers. Since they haven't been down for the most part, I've been able to play the game and enjoy it more than I ever enjoyed D2 (which I thought was really fun).

Are the US servers too laggy for Europeans to play on?

Do companies outsource running the servers or what? What explains the difference in how well/poorly the US/Euro servers are?

Depends on how stupid Blizzard's folks are being or who they outsourced to. I know for my company we rank a 9/10 on the idiocy scale for our UK datacenters and insist on shipping everything to a DC in the states and then re-shipping it overseas (and then having non stop fun by annoying our UK DC folks by using US style C13/C14 power..)

If they're smart, they'd ship directly and be hosting somewhere that could provide some burst capacity if needed (every DC I'm in right now also hosts a 'cloud' service that they're willing to bend you over a barrel for access to on a burst basis)

Really, I can't think of any reason for the EU issues with the servers. Mostly because that much downtime repeatedly during prime hours would maybe be understandable two or three days in a row if something lit on fire or you can't find a vendor with spare gear to sell you. After that your duct tape fixes should be in place damnit.

I suspect part of the issue is that EU data privacy law prevents them from simply redirecting you to US login servers to bypass any bottlenecks. At least it's the issue we've run into when trying to use US sites as DR of last resort for UK datacenters.

fake edit: I'm actually kind of fascinated as to what is going wrong over there. It's pretty much a nuclear event to have that much repeated downtime in a service. I can't figure what the shit is wrong unless they absolutely can't get more power in their cage and the solution is "more servers"


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 04, 2012, 08:29:53 AM
So, I tried to log into my account this morning, and I'm locked out. (I have an authenticator) I go to reset my password, and I'm still locked out. I can't submit a trouble ticket because I can't log in to my account.  :oh_i_see:
WTF?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on June 04, 2012, 08:33:01 AM
So, I tried to log into my account this morning, and I'm locked out. (I have an authenticator) I go to reset my password, and I'm still locked out. I can't submit a trouble ticket because I can't log in to my account.  :oh_i_see:
WTF?

https://us.battle.net/account/support/login-support.html

There should be a button there for being currently locked out that does not require a login.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on June 04, 2012, 09:00:37 AM
I would be completely pissed off if the US servers were like the Euro servers. Since they haven't been down for the most part, I've been able to play the game and enjoy it more than I ever enjoyed D2 (which I thought was really fun).

Are the US servers too laggy for Europeans to play on?

Do companies outsource running the servers or what? What explains the difference in how well/poorly the US/Euro servers are?

They are somewhat laggier, but the main Problem is you lose all your Progress when you switch.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Segoris on June 04, 2012, 09:03:53 AM
Given how long and often the Euro servers are down, I don't think you'd lose too much by switching then  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 04, 2012, 09:08:54 AM
IF its any help. My ping stays around 300ms, and spikes up to 2500. I'm US, playing in the US.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 04, 2012, 09:57:02 AM
The problem is that Diablo 3 cannot use the concept of sharding so everything is either a big-ass single cluster where everyone is directed to (e.g. Auction House) or you have to dynamically create and destroy shards with lots and lots of signalling between them whenever people want to play together because they are probably assigned to two different shards at the moment.

Imagine if you will as if all WoW players had to use the same server cluster.

You have a metric crapton of items in the AH, probably at least two orders of magnitude more than you have on any WoW server. People constantly leave and enter games to reset maps, average play time is less so you have a much higher load on the login infrastructure and instance servers.

If everyone plays single player you nevertheless have to create instances on your server for each one of them because they might at any time be joined by another player.

And in contrast to WoW everything has to be NOSQL because RDBS tend to be bad at that transaction per minute numbers we're probably getting with Diablo.

Combine that with evidence that Diablo 3 is either a little bit rushed or lacks polish and you have a recipe for trouble.

I liked the blue post by the Diablo developer a lot but it also made me shake my head in disbelief about how clueless they are about some features.

I mean come on, if a player suggests that it's annoying to have to log into your game to repair items because you cannot see their stats in the AH otherwise and the answer to that is basically "Hey great idea, we should really do something about that" then they are exceptionally clueless or lazy.

Also "our interface is not at all customizable, so feature X would be hard or impossible to implement", from a company that has another online game with a fully customizable and extendable UI based on LUA.

Some of those answers were weapons grade stupid and showed that they basically didn't think many things through.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 04, 2012, 10:37:19 AM
So, I tried to log into my account this morning, and I'm locked out. (I have an authenticator) I go to reset my password, and I'm still locked out. I can't submit a trouble ticket because I can't log in to my account.  :oh_i_see:
WTF?

https://us.battle.net/account/support/login-support.html

There should be a button there for being currently locked out that does not require a login.

Huh. I could log in to the game just fine, but can't log in to my account through battle.net. Maybe battle.net is getting brute forced?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tannhauser on June 04, 2012, 02:49:42 PM
Also, aren't all the servers on the West Coast?  That would more affect our Euro friends' latency/stability wouldn't it?

Love D3 much more than D2, but the entire AH needs to be nuked from orbit. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Cheddar on June 04, 2012, 05:35:14 PM
IF its any help. My ping stays around 300ms, and spikes up to 2500. I'm US, playing in the US.

Still in Mid Atlantic?  Same issue here, though gotten better.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 04, 2012, 10:03:17 PM
Yep.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Zetor on June 04, 2012, 11:13:26 PM
Also, aren't all the servers on the West Coast?  That would more affect our Euro friends' latency/stability wouldn't it?

Love D3 much more than D2, but the entire AH needs to be nuked from orbit.  
I don't play D3, but I did play WOW on a west coast server from Europe.. it wasn't pleasant at all. 700+ ping was commonplace (with occasional 6000-7000 ms latency bursts) and playing a melee character was pretty much out of the question.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: apocrypha on June 05, 2012, 12:56:36 AM
I spent a couple of hours playing a Barbarian on the US servers last week (I'm in the UK) and had a constant ping of about 250ms.

Thing is that it's easy and free to check. If you want to play on a different region's servers you can do so any time and see how it works out for you.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ice Cream Emperor on June 06, 2012, 05:23:35 AM

What is the point of having a server status page if it does not automatically poll the actual server status?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 06, 2012, 05:53:04 AM
Near the end of Act3 nightmare and still not a single legendary.  I'm getting sad.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on June 06, 2012, 05:55:56 AM

What is the point of having a server status page if it does not automatically poll the actual server status?

To give the impression that everything is fine and dandy.   :awesome_for_real:


Near the end of Act3 nightmare and still not a single legendary.  I'm getting sad.

I finally got a lvl 40 legendary Xbow to drop in Whimsy on Nightmare... while farming. Pretty sure it dropped off a cloud as well. Otherwise, level 57 Barb in Act2 of Hell and never seen one till then.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: SurfD on June 06, 2012, 06:20:03 AM
I got my first legendary yesterday.  After clearing up to act 3 Hell on 2 toons, most of nightmare on 2 more, and doing countless farm runs for Staff of Hearding mats (still no fucking Liquid Rainbow), my Witchdoctor got a level 15 2 handed Axe with pretty much useless stats off a Demonic Vessel in act 3 Normal.   I cried.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 06, 2012, 06:35:34 AM
I've played ~70 hours without seeing a legendary on my barb.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 06, 2012, 07:08:42 AM
Now that the servers work (most of the time anyway) I've managed to reach hell act 2 and hit a wall.

I'm level 56 and I'm outgeared and constantly die to elite or rare mobs. Kiting is neigh impossible because everything I encounter is fast. (and the RNG has a fondness for sticking "invulnerable minions" or "arcane enchanted" on mobs) and my gear is sub par.

Problem is that I already don mostly level 52+ gear so I don't expect huge upgrades to stuff until I hit 60. Other problem is that everything with resists on it is hugely expensive in the 55 to 60 level in the AH.

So I spend every penny I earn to get modest to slight upgrades on the AH yet I constantly die anyway.

Only other option I see is redoing ACTs 1 and 2 to farm money so that I can spend millions on the AH for the good stuff and get XP. Not my idea of fun but avoiding elite obs because I simply can't kite them seems equally bad. I'll also never get past Belial in my current state.

One of the unbeatable combos so far was fast, molten (other was same combo but arcane enchanted), mortar, invulnerable minions on the naga of act 2. So you can't kite them (fast), can't shoot them from afar (mortar) can't engage them close range (molten resp. arcane enchanted), most of your shots don't hit the target (invulnerable minions block them) and once you get to far away they cloak and you can't hit them. Also the naga hit really hard.

So I'm stuck at the moment


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 06, 2012, 07:15:04 AM
Near the end of Act3 nightmare and still not a single legendary.  I'm getting sad.

I did not get a legendary until I got to inferno with NV. Now I have 2 legendaries (both from inferno).

I have never stacked MF.

I don't know what they are because I heard that they are going to buff legendaries in the next big patch (1.0.3?) but the buff only applies to unidentified legendaries. So I tossed them into stash for future identifying.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 06, 2012, 07:15:42 AM
Some options then:

1 - Upgrade your weapon. You'll see the biggest bang for the buck doing this. Weapons in the middle teir with sockets can be cheaper subs for good DPS with
2 - Level up in the lower zones. Getting to 60 will help a lot.
3 - Once 60, if you still have issues, go into nightmare with 5 stacks of the Nephalem buff and buy yourself a goldfind set. If you do it right, you can stack over 200% GF and make a ton of cash.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 06, 2012, 07:21:31 AM
Those are great suggestions.

Leveling up is most efficiently accomplished by repeating quests rather than killing mobs.  You could also stack exp% until you hit 60. That stuff is often underpriced and easy to find.

I prefer to work on achievements like finding books or finding places I've never been to straight out farming, because it distracts me from the idea that I'm farming, since I hate farming.

You could also try multiplayer, and get thru hell with someone else. Some packs are best bypassed rather than killed.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MrHat on June 06, 2012, 07:22:30 AM
Some options then:

1 - Upgrade your weapon. You'll see the biggest bang for the buck doing this. Weapons in the middle teir with sockets can be cheaper subs for good DPS with
2 - Level up in the lower zones. Getting to 60 will help a lot.
3 - Once 60, if you still have issues, go into nightmare with 5 stacks of the Nephalem buff and buy yourself a goldfind set. If you do it right, you can stack over 200% GF and make a ton of cash.

It's been suggested before but -Level Requirement L60 weapons will break your hump.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Der Helm on June 06, 2012, 07:25:40 AM

What is the point of having a server status page if it does not automatically poll the actual server status?
So I am not the only one who can't connect to the server ?  :grin:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 06, 2012, 07:27:50 AM

What is the point of having a server status page if it does not automatically poll the actual server status?
So I am not the only one who can't connect to the server ?  :grin:

Tuesday update/maintenance! Until 11am Pacific Time - except it's Wednesday!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Der Helm on June 06, 2012, 07:31:05 AM
Tuesday update/maintenance! Until 11am Pacific Time - except it's Wednesday!

So the maintenance is taking them a bit longer ?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on June 06, 2012, 07:35:08 AM
@Jeff: What class are you?

1) Pealos said it, but bears repeating. Go to the AH, enter you level and sort weapons by DPS. Don't worry about the other stats, unless it's a really cheap weapon.

2) I didn't bother with "All Resitance" until level 60. I purchased 99% of my gear from the AH, looking for Int, Vit and MagicFind. OK gear is not expensive at all, I mostly capped my search at 30-40k gold for armor (more for chest pieces). Stuff without MF is even cheaper.

3) Group with someone. Sounds you are playing a kiting class...as a wizard the difficulty drops dramitically once you play with someone else. A lot less kiting is involved if some dumb barbarian takes all the heat for you. *glances at Pealos* But honestly most class combos have good synergies. Wiz+Wiz is wicked fun.

4) Find a Sugardaddy or Sugarmommy. I am farming Hell Act 4/Inferno Act I and keep finding rare lvl 55 gear I know I never will use. Most F13eers are even farther in.

4.5) For god sake come to the US server. It's were all the cool people are!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 06, 2012, 07:42:04 AM
Yep, I do wander into stuff like a whirlwinding idiot.

And pAElos, not pEAlos.  :awesome_for_real:



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on June 06, 2012, 07:48:31 AM
And pAElos, not pEAlos.  :awesome_for_real:

Me very sorry.  :oops: :oops: :oops:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 06, 2012, 07:54:35 AM
Pealos is a gorilla with a monocle.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 06, 2012, 08:07:00 AM
Demon Hunter so Vit and Dex mostly with crit chance and attack speed as secondary.

I won't play multiplayer, on principle even if it kills me ,-).

Blizzard claims that Diablo 3 a single player game at heart with a strong multiplayer option and I'll treat it as such.

I currently sport a 305 dps bow with quiver (both Level 54). If I enter a reasonable buyout (100,000) and nothing else and sort for DPS the best bow I get has 320 dps but I'd lose a huge amount of Dex and Vit for a small upgrade. It's the same with most other equip I own. Next tier of equip starts at 500,000 or worse in the EU AH.

It's frustrating because I could kill Maghda and the Butcher with that sort of equip but in the old Waterways and Shifting Sands almost everything kicks my ass big time.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Thrawn on June 06, 2012, 08:16:52 AM
I currently sport a 305 dps bow with quiver (both Level 54). If I enter a reasonable buyout (100,000) and nothing else and sort for DPS the best bow I get has 320 dps but I'd lose a huge amount of Dex and Vit for a small upgrade. It's the same with most other equip I own. Next tier of equip starts at 500,000 or worse in the EU AH.

It's frustrating because I could kill Maghda and the Butcher with that sort of equip but in the old Waterways and Shifting Sands almost everything kicks my ass big time.

I'm going to assume you are 54 here, so I could be completely wrong but -

Do not search for a level 54 bow.  Set the level field as level 60, then filter it for "Reduced Level Requirement" by 6.  These items do not show up otherwise until you hit 60.  You will probably find a bow that is double your current ones dps, my 2h cross bow at level 56 has over 700dps on it doing that so I'm at around 27k dps on my DH before I've even hit 60.  (+10 or more attack speed on rings, amulet and gloves whenever possible in addition to dex)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Segoris on June 06, 2012, 08:22:06 AM
4) Find a Sugarmommy.

If you follow this advice and find one, let me know if she has a sister :grin:


Good tips in general though, search for level 60 weapons with reduced level requirement and you'll plow right through anything giving you trouble.
Sometimes, it's also your spec. As shitty as it sounds, not all specs are created equal.
Up until Act2 inferno for dps classes, I'd also say it's safe to just stack vit and your main dps stat with a good weapon. Don't worry about +magic find or gold find, since at that level it's pretty irrelevant.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on June 06, 2012, 08:22:56 AM
A 300 dps bow should be fine, the main issue in the waterways are Nagas due to the invulnerability while closing and high damage output. I'd suggest switching your build around a bit at that point in the game. I pretty much limped through Act 2 Hell on my DH due to Nagas, then walked through Act 3/4 without dying once. I swapped out to Frost Arrow as my spam ability, cluster arrow with stun, and the carpet bombing version of rain of arrows. Everything else was geared around hatred generation and my one smoke screen oh shit button.

Nagas will always suck hard, however. Fuck Nagas.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lantyssa on June 06, 2012, 09:05:01 AM
And pAElos, not pEAlos.  :awesome_for_real:
Pälos.

He just anglicizes it. :-P


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 06, 2012, 02:57:40 PM

It's frustrating because I could kill Maghda and the Butcher with that sort of equip but in the old Waterways and Shifting Sands almost everything kicks my ass big time.


What sort of build are you running?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Arinon on June 06, 2012, 03:25:35 PM
Some of the mob types in Act 2 are just way to painful to kite and I had to bite the bullet and tank some shit.  Shadow Power with Gloom can be chained for quite a while with Prep.  Put a shield on if you have to and spam Ball Lightning or Nether Tentacles.  You may be surprised at what you can tank with that setup.  Also works for any mobs that hide/burrow/run away when you pop smoke or those too fast for you.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 06, 2012, 03:39:18 PM
Demon Hunter so Vit and Dex mostly with crit chance and attack speed as secondary.

I won't play multiplayer, on principle even if it kills me ,-).

Blizzard claims that Diablo 3 a single player game at heart with a strong multiplayer option and I'll treat it as such.

I currently sport a 305 dps bow with quiver (both Level 54). If I enter a reasonable buyout (100,000) and nothing else and sort for DPS the best bow I get has 320 dps but I'd lose a huge amount of Dex and Vit for a small upgrade. It's the same with most other equip I own. Next tier of equip starts at 500,000 or worse in the EU AH.

It's frustrating because I could kill Maghda and the Butcher with that sort of equip but in the old Waterways and Shifting Sands almost everything kicks my ass big time.


Whatever dex and vitality you get on a weapon at 54, it pales in comparison to any weapon with more damage. Honest.

Forget dex and vitality on weapons until you are rich rich rich. Damage is king. Get the highest damage bow, hand crossbow, whatever you pew pew with.

You can get dex and vitality on your other pieces. Damage on weapons is the main trait you need. Maybe the only trait you need, until you are either much richer or much luckier with drops.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on June 06, 2012, 03:42:28 PM
Also, 305 to 320 is not a 'small' upgrade. That displayed weapon DPS is multiplied by all your other DPS-affecting stats, a difference of 15 damage on the weapon can easily be hundreds of displayed DPS difference on your character sheet.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on June 06, 2012, 03:46:44 PM
Edit: Wrong thread to talk about durability loss... or upcoming patch changes. Whoops.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on June 06, 2012, 10:54:57 PM
Near the end of Act3 nightmare and still not a single legendary.  I'm getting sad.

I did not get a legendary until I got to inferno with NV. Now I have 2 legendaries (both from inferno).

I have never stacked MF.

I don't know what they are because I heard that they are going to buff legendaries in the next big patch (1.0.3?) but the buff only applies to unidentified legendaries. So I tossed them into stash for future identifying.

Actually they said they weren't going to retroactively change existing legendaries. If they clarified that to say they would uppgrade unidentified legendaries I must have missed it.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 07, 2012, 12:50:06 AM
After skimming the AH for a day I finally found an affordable 60 Bow with reduced level requirement because people have caught on by now that those were a bargain and now prices are up. 600 dps for 75,000 Gold although with 4% more life and x life per hit it's still a bargain.

Now it's just mashing buttons and watching goons die where I was the one dying before. Even got Belial on the second try. Afterwards things got even more ridiculous and I've been breezing through Act 3 without breaking a sweat. Difficulty goes way down once you switch acts.

It's not a testament to balance that a single upgrade can influence the difficulty that much but I'm not complaining.

I'm now Level 59 and elemental arrow with nether tentacles is just ridiculously overpowered. Spam until discipline is gone and watch everything die.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: rk47 on June 07, 2012, 01:15:07 AM
Great job, Jeff. You're playing the game, the way it's meant to be played. Money is power.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ragnoros on June 07, 2012, 01:34:24 AM
Regarding your experience: The lead designer of diablo has stated several times that things such as reduced level requirements were put into the game so you could feel like you were breaking things and being a badass.

Heck, for posterity.

Quote
There’s lots of “breakpoints”, as I like to call them, in the game. I love games that exhibit breakpoints. Points where you’re following one strategy, but as soon as you hit some magic break point you can suddenly do something you couldn’t do before.

That point where your archon goes from 25 seconds to INFINITE. Yay! That point where your life per hit is completely mitigating all incoming damage. That point where you have enough crit to perma-CC all non-elite monsters with certain builds.

One of the things that absorbs a lot of mental energy is trying to create that feeling that you “broke the game”. No level requirements on gems and Reduced Level Requirements going as high as 18 are two examples of this. I love things that make the player feel like they broke the game (as long as it is, in the grand scheme of things, not going to ruin it).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 07, 2012, 02:55:35 AM
But it kinda does ruin it.

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 07, 2012, 03:01:54 AM
That sort of 'mechanic' (I'm using the term loosely here) wouldn't work without the AH. I could have farmed Act 1 and 2 on Hell from here to eternity and the bow I bought wouldn't have dropped ever.

The difficulty also doesn't gradually increase or decrease. You switch from Act 1 to 2 and it's instantly harder, you buy a new item and it's instantly much easier. That's not a 'breaking point', that's just shitty balancing.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: rk47 on June 07, 2012, 09:22:35 AM
That sort of 'mechanic' (I'm using the term loosely here) wouldn't work without the AH. I could have farmed Act 1 and 2 on Hell from here to eternity and the bow I bought wouldn't have dropped ever.

The difficulty also doesn't gradually increase or decrease. You switch from Act 1 to 2 and it's instantly harder, you buy a new item and it's instantly much easier. That's not a 'breaking point', that's just shitty balancing.

(http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/smiles/excellent.gif)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 07, 2012, 09:28:13 AM
That sort of 'mechanic' (I'm using the term loosely here) wouldn't work without the AH. I could have farmed Act 1 and 2 on Hell from here to eternity and the bow I bought wouldn't have dropped ever.


These "break points" existed in Diablo 2 also and there was no AH.  It absolutely required trading in the end game to get a full set of gear of course.  And then it was practically all for show anyway, because there wasn't even any difficult to complete content in the first place (by comparison to Inferno).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 07, 2012, 11:31:23 AM
You totally contradicted yourself in one line.  That's awesome.

 :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on June 07, 2012, 12:14:56 PM
That sort of 'mechanic' (I'm using the term loosely here) wouldn't work without the AH. I could have farmed Act 1 and 2 on Hell from here to eternity and the bow I bought wouldn't have dropped ever.

While that may be true, a bow that was good enough to break your stall point would have. The total roadblock problem with drop levels really only exists in inferno (and they're taking steps to fix it.) I guess maybe it exists in normal too but normal is so easy it doesn't really matter.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ice Cream Emperor on June 07, 2012, 03:05:19 PM

The problem is really that there is only one vector for gaining effectiveness: gear. In D2 there were tons of examples of this 'breakpoint' satisfaction that simply came from your skill build hitting a certain plateau -- like when you finish saving up all those points and hit the level where you can dump them into a new skill that is wicked awesome (whirlwind, etc.)

And even in terms of gear the number of upgrades that will create that sort of game-breaking/new car smell are much more limited, because there are so few unique affixes or unusually-statted items. Now it's pretty much entirely when you upgrade your weapon, and in some very rare cases when you manage to stack some other 'interesting' stat (crit, life on hit?) When the only thing that changes your gameplay is upgrading a single piece of gear, the number of times it can become interesting again -- and D2 was kind of like an endless sine wave of 'bored now... oh but what if I try this new thing?' -- is a lot more limited.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on June 07, 2012, 03:19:49 PM
Eh, I would say there are also spots where you get that great rune or passive that you wanted also.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 07, 2012, 03:38:23 PM
You totally contradicted yourself in one line.  That's awesome.

 :oh_i_see:

Where?  I don't see the problem.  The break points in D2 were things like going from being able to complete the content to being godlike with dual leech, or being able to crush huge packs of cows more quickly.  It is a totally different thing that in Diablo 3 because the end game actually has content that is hard at max level.  In other words - In Diablo 2 end game progression was only about clearing more quickly, in Diablo 3 it is about being able to clear something at all.  Perhaps this is your problem with the system?

If you were talking about the AH/Trading thing - my point is that you've always had to do something with regards to the economy if you wanted a full set of highend gear - the only difference is that a full set of high end gear is actually necessary in Diablo 3 (see the previous point) whereas it didn't matter in Diablo 2 if all you cared about was the binary of being able/not being able to clear something.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ice Cream Emperor on June 07, 2012, 06:31:40 PM

Nephalem Valor should just always apply, to characters of all levels. Add a little bit of scaling if necessary, but seriously, why not? It makes the game more fun, and there is no real downside to letting players get more low-level interesting drops.

Or if you want to preserve that initial desperate-for-drops feeling, just have NV be an account-wide ability activated when you first get a character to level 60. It's annoying to be levelling up a secondary character and thinking 'I could have my main farm this and the drops would be better -- and not just because I'd clear it faster.' It would also add some novelty to alt-levelling the first few times, since you might actually see some of those low-level legendary drops.

One of the better new mechanics -- and like the ONE good idea from the Sacred games, so good to see an improved version showing up in Diablo -- but it feels wasted at level 60, when it could be making the whole levelling experience more fun too.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 07, 2012, 07:07:09 PM

Nephalem Valor should just always apply, to characters of all levels. Add a little bit of scaling if necessary, but seriously, why not? It makes the game more fun, and there is no real downside to letting players get more low-level interesting drops.

Or if you want to preserve that initial desperate-for-drops feeling, just have NV be an account-wide ability activated when you first get a character to level 60. It's annoying to be levelling up a secondary character and thinking 'I could have my main farm this and the drops would be better -- and not just because I'd clear it faster.' It would also add some novelty to alt-levelling the first few times, since you might actually see some of those low-level legendary drops.

One of the better new mechanics -- and like the ONE good idea from the Sacred games, so good to see an improved version showing up in Diablo -- but it feels wasted at level 60, when it could be making the whole levelling experience more fun too.



I agree.  Their reasoning is that it would make people not want to equip that new skill they just got in order to preserve the buff.  I think that is reasonable at least, but I do wish I had it on all my characters.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Khaldun on June 07, 2012, 07:23:22 PM
So I know this is old news but now into Act III on Inferno, I'm finding that gameplay really has only two dimensions: steamrolling or desperate kiting across half the map. When you draw the wrong characteristics on a pack, it's going to be a twenty-minute kite fest. Molten Immune Fast Knockbacks in Act II, for example, were pretty close to impossible--but not the fun kind of impossible, really.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 07, 2012, 07:31:34 PM
The "skill" level certainly isn't really there in inferno, unless the skill is running around a lot.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Shatter on June 07, 2012, 08:23:55 PM
So I know this is old news but now into Act III on Inferno, I'm finding that gameplay really has only two dimensions: steamrolling or desperate kiting across half the map. When you draw the wrong characteristics on a pack, it's going to be a twenty-minute kite fest. Molten Immune Fast Knockbacks in Act II, for example, were pretty close to impossible--but not the fun kind of impossible, really.

My whole Inferno experience past act 1 is basically clear my run path, pray I dont get elite mob Terminator 1000 with bonus pew pew lasers so I can kite the f*cker for 20 minutes and get my sh*tty blue drops. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ice Cream Emperor on June 08, 2012, 03:14:03 AM
I agree.  Their reasoning is that it would make people not want to equip that new skill they just got in order to preserve the buff. 

Gosh, how could they possibly solve that problem? After all we know that losing the buff whenever you change skills is crucial to what makes Nephalem Valor enjoyabl-- oh wait, no, it's totally pointless and arbitrary and should also be removed? Then they can get around to adding hotkeys for swapping skills, and the game can get significantly more fun to play. Everybody wins.

(Honestly, if anyone can explain why NV disappears on respec, I'd love to hear it.)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 08, 2012, 04:35:13 AM
I agree.  Their reasoning is that it would make people not want to equip that new skill they just got in order to preserve the buff. 

Gosh, how could they possibly solve that problem? After all we know that losing the buff whenever you change skills is crucial to what makes Nephalem Valor enjoyabl-- oh wait, no, it's totally pointless and arbitrary and should also be removed? Then they can get around to adding hotkeys for swapping skills, and the game can get significantly more fun to play. Everybody wins.

(Honestly, if anyone can explain why NV disappears on respec, I'd love to hear it.)

Well, I'm not saying I agree with them, I was just saying what they've said.

Also, the reason, according to them, about why NV disappears on respec is that they don't want people changing spec to be optimal for every different thing they come across.  They want you to pick a spec that is good for the entire area you are running, and stay with it.   Again, I'm not saying this is a great reason, but it is *the* reason they gave when they announced the buff in the first place.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 08, 2012, 05:55:49 AM
While that may be true, a bow that was good enough to break your stall point would have. The total roadblock problem with drop levels really only exists in inferno (and they're taking steps to fix it.) I guess maybe it exists in normal too but normal is so easy it doesn't really matter.

I could probably wait until I roll something with perfect stats but I already had level appropriate gear. If it wasn't for the "reduced level requirement" stat I wouldn't even be able to use the bow I now have because it's level 60 and I was Level 54 at that time.

Act 2 Hell doesn't drop anything better than what I already had because I bought my stuff from the AH and Act 2 only drops items of a level 48 - 52 (even Act 4 Hell doesn't drop level 60 loot consistently)

The only thing you could argue is my lack of skill.

Diablo in Diablo 2 was hard but perfectly doable by toons with lackluster gear if they had great tactics and decent skill. Belial or Diablo in 3with sub par gear needs a near perfect execution because they one-shot you.

I don't consider kiting mobs for half an hour or OCD-levels of perfect execution to get a boss down to be signs of great skill but YMMV.

The difficulty curve is clearly designed around the AH even if they claim otherwise. You play until you hit your particular brick wall and then you go on a shopping spree.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 08, 2012, 06:20:07 AM
I'll be honest, I don't think it's because they designed around the AH, I think you're just seeing what happens when a Developer focuses on an MMO so intensely for 7 years.   It's a lack of talent and ability to think in the style of other games, nothing as Machiavellian as funneling people to the AH.   

The MMO thought and design process for encounters has bled in to the other studios and it really shows in Diablo III.   It's a current-gen DIKU in all but the loot drop mechanics.  The scripted encounters, the need to gear up or be splattered, the need to use specific skill rotations and combinations to succeed.   If you had a shared interaction space you'd be hard pressed to call it anything but an MMO.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 08, 2012, 06:35:03 AM
I'll be honest, I don't think it's because they designed around the AH, I think you're just seeing what happens when a Developer focuses on an MMO so intensely for 7 years.   It's a lack of talent and ability to think in the style of other games, nothing as Machiavellian as funneling people to the AH.  

The MMO thought and design process for encounters has bled in to the other studios and it really shows in Diablo III.   It's a current-gen DIKU in all but the loot drop mechanics.  The scripted encounters, the need to gear up or be splattered, the need to use specific skill rotations and combinations to succeed.   If you had a shared interaction space you'd be hard pressed to call it anything but an MMO.

It sure seems designed around the AH to me, given the drop rates of gear to use for the next act (which seems to approach zero).

After reading the reddit summary, I am unimpressed with the developers' vision, attitudes and philosophies.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/uoooj/i_am_we_are_wyatt_cheng_andrew_chambers_and_jay/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/uoooj/i_am_we_are_wyatt_cheng_andrew_chambers_and_jay/)

Summary here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5578596168#1 (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5578596168#1)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 08, 2012, 06:44:11 AM
Here's some more info on the melee/ranged disparity.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 08, 2012, 06:51:00 AM
I will point out that in that melee/ranged disparity they used my least favorite word of all time in regards to development.

Guess which one!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Miasma on June 08, 2012, 07:03:43 AM
Either "BEES!!!" or "meaningful"...

I'm melee and I don't like the repair cost "fix" either.  I get pissed off enough when I die as it is, I don't think that change will stick around very long.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 08, 2012, 07:14:54 AM
It's a shitty way to 'fix' the disparity. Way to make me not want to play inferno even more.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 08, 2012, 07:23:38 AM
It is "meaningful."

Any time a developer uses that word, I automatically know they've lost touch with reality.

If players are zerging mobs because they are dying too much, the answer isn't to make dying cost more. The answer is looking at why players are dying so much. Are they undergeared? If they are undergeared, why? Is there a problem with lower levels of distribution?

Often these questions bring up much deeper problems with the system. Punishing players for dying too much doesn't make the problem go away, it just puts a brick wall at the end of the line for many people.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 08, 2012, 07:26:48 AM
If players are zerging mobs because they are dying too much, the answer isn't to make dying cost more. The answer is looking at why players are dying so much. Are they undergeared? If they are undergeared, why? Is there a problem with lower levels of distribution?

Obv they need to l2p amirite?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 08, 2012, 07:29:03 AM
Or even better, don't make zerging a viable strategy. Once you're off screen, have the mobs regen health completely. That would stop it more than just zerging around like an idiot.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 08, 2012, 07:36:31 AM
Another complaint I have read about on the general forum:

Diablo 3 has a problem with the old Diablo 2 trade scam. Many posts by players who got ripped off.

You'd think they would have a safeguard built in.

The general forum makes me hate the Diablo 3 community as much as I hate the WoW community. I recall a time when the WoW community was actually moderated (the first year or maybe two?) by real people, both forums and online. (I was warned by a CSR for typing "fuck" on public chat). Frankly, I don't understand why they can't pay an intern minimum wage to police /general chat for a while to get rid of the gold sellers, particularly since /reporting them doesn't put them on one's ignore list, and the devs decided to force people into /general every time one logs in.

Clownshoes.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: rk47 on June 08, 2012, 07:55:47 AM
Here's some more info on the melee/ranged disparity.


(http://i.imgur.com/OPKFC.gif)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on June 08, 2012, 08:15:29 AM
I'll be honest, I don't think it's because they designed around the AH, I think you're just seeing what happens when a Developer focuses on an MMO so intensely for 7 years.   It's a lack of talent and ability to think in the style of other games, nothing as Machiavellian as funneling people to the AH.   

The MMO thought and design process for encounters has bled in to the other studios and it really shows in Diablo III.   It's a current-gen DIKU in all but the loot drop mechanics.  The scripted encounters, the need to gear up or be splattered, the need to use specific skill rotations and combinations to succeed.   If you had a shared interaction space you'd be hard pressed to call it anything but an MMO.

I see absolutely no evidence that they used any of their mmo designers on D3. Otherwise how do you explain all the basic noob mistakes they've made?



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 08, 2012, 08:34:26 AM
I'll be honest, I don't think it's because they designed around the AH, I think you're just seeing what happens when a Developer focuses on an MMO so intensely for 7 years.   It's a lack of talent and ability to think in the style of other games, nothing as Machiavellian as funneling people to the AH.  

The MMO thought and design process for encounters has bled in to the other studios and it really shows in Diablo III.   It's a current-gen DIKU in all but the loot drop mechanics.  The scripted encounters, the need to gear up or be splattered, the need to use specific skill rotations and combinations to succeed.   If you had a shared interaction space you'd be hard pressed to call it anything but an MMO.

It sure seems designed around the AH to me, given the drop rates of gear to use for the next act (which seems to approach zero).


Which also mirrors their MMO-Endgame philosophy.  You don't kill bosses now to be able to kill the next tier.  You kill them for loot that makes it easier on THIS tier.  Then you go to the next tier and spend the required time wiping and struggling for loot, incrementally upgrading until it gets easier and easier.

If WoW allowed all gear to be sold on the AH you'd see the same thing.

I see absolutely no evidence that they used any of their mmo designers on D3. Otherwise how do you explain all the basic noob mistakes they've made?

The same designers don't have to be used for a philosophy to be company-wide. Just the same bosses.  I see it all the time here. One guy oversees the design studio so while all the projects look different and have different programs, if you know what to look for you quickly see they all have the same language.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: apocrypha on June 08, 2012, 09:58:13 AM
If players are zerging mobs because they are dying too much, the answer isn't to make dying cost more. The answer is looking at why players are dying so much. Are they undergeared? If they are undergeared, why? Is there a problem with lower levels of distribution?

But they're already addressing that - they're reducing the damage in Acts II-IV, reducing the extra damage for more players *and* improving loot distribution in Act I.

The insta-heal if mobs go off-screen idea would be a shitty way to fix death zerging since there'd be so many times that would happen accidentally. Plus punishing the occasional death by forcing you to start on a pack all over again doesn't sound like much fun either.

The current repair cost is only prohibitive because of the frequency of deaths. Reduce that frequency and increasing the cost has no net effect if they get the numbers right.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on June 08, 2012, 10:00:39 AM
I'll be honest, I don't think it's because they designed around the AH, I think you're just seeing what happens when a Developer focuses on an MMO so intensely for 7 years.   It's a lack of talent and ability to think in the style of other games, nothing as Machiavellian as funneling people to the AH.   

The MMO thought and design process for encounters has bled in to the other studios and it really shows in Diablo III.   It's a current-gen DIKU in all but the loot drop mechanics.  The scripted encounters, the need to gear up or be splattered, the need to use specific skill rotations and combinations to succeed.   If you had a shared interaction space you'd be hard pressed to call it anything but an MMO.

Other than the scripted boss encounters, everything you say is also true of D2.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on June 08, 2012, 10:36:55 AM

The concept that 'the game begins at max level' is *totally* foreign to Diablo and has been brought over wholesale from WoW. Heck even he level cap is the same.

In diablo 2 you could start farming once you hit nightmare mode, and indeed many players never even went into hell. We used to call nightmare mephisto the 'shopping trolley'. In d3 it's *impossible* to farm until you hit max level because of the drop rates and requirement for Nephalim valour.

In essence, because of the dumb drop rates thee entirety of nightmare and hell mode is a speed bump on the way to max level.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: kildorn on June 08, 2012, 10:44:32 AM
I could have sworn the D2 game began when your build's skills became available, and until then you were just kind of suffering through not having spent any points (this changed in later patches when they figured out that was stupid gameplay)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Khaldun on June 08, 2012, 11:00:32 AM
I think I hit the wall today. Just could not get interested in playing the game. I see too much of the same things that have bored me silly in WoW. Zynga-esque operant-conditioning hooks with almost no tactically interesting play. Do ideal rotation, get loot; if tough mobs, kite, get loot; if really bad combination, kite, evade and move on.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on June 08, 2012, 11:10:38 AM
I think I'm taking time off until the new patch. Even if I forget and don't play again until an expansion, I consider 70 hours worth the $60.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 08, 2012, 11:20:18 AM
I'll be honest, I don't think it's because they designed around the AH, I think you're just seeing what happens when a Developer focuses on an MMO so intensely for 7 years.   It's a lack of talent and ability to think in the style of other games, nothing as Machiavellian as funneling people to the AH.   

The MMO thought and design process for encounters has bled in to the other studios and it really shows in Diablo III.   It's a current-gen DIKU in all but the loot drop mechanics.  The scripted encounters, the need to gear up or be splattered, the need to use specific skill rotations and combinations to succeed.   If you had a shared interaction space you'd be hard pressed to call it anything but an MMO.

Other than the scripted boss encounters, everything you say is also true of D2.

I hated (and still do) D2 and never got through more than the 1st boss of Act1 without hacking into the end. Even then I didn't find the 'end' fun, so I wouldn't have a frame of reference there.

What Kild just said sounds a lot more like what I've heard D2 players say over the years than relating it back to current MMOs. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on June 08, 2012, 11:45:43 AM
My Inferno Act 2 progress on my Barbarian was short lived. I think I just got lucky on rare/champion mob modifiers for the first few times I stepped into Act 2. Ever since then it's been bullshit like shielding fast horde bees. My response to that pack in particular was to run back to the waypoint and exit the game for the night.

I generally like difficult games, but Diablo 3 feels like a JRPG where the solution to any difficulty is "grind more" rather than "get better". There is no room to get better when the game, as melee, is about stacking defensive items and abilities until you can brute-force the content. The gameplay is visually/audibly satisfying, but underneath that shiny exterior it's really not any better than hotbar MMO combat (and is in some ways less satisfying than combat in something like WoW).

I did have fun in Inferno act 1 though. I think the loot system finally starts working at that point. Maybe after they make the 1.0.3 changes the rest of Inferno will just just as fun/addictive. At this point I haven't logged in for about a week and have instead been catching up on Netflix.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on June 08, 2012, 04:50:05 PM
With Hell being as far as I've progressed (54 Barb and a 40 DH in NM) I think I'm done with the game.

I'm sick of the reliance on the AH to progress. Progression should come from what I do, not what others do.
I'm sick of shitty drops
I'm sick of boss fights being meaningless
I'm sick of affixes that take away skill from the equation. No seriously - you beat that champ by running from it?
(I'm also sick of bees)

The honeymoon is over.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on June 08, 2012, 07:45:46 PM
Another complaint I have read about on the general forum:

Diablo 3 has a problem with the old Diablo 2 trade scam. Many posts by players who got ripped off.

You'd think they would have a safeguard built in.

How are they getting ripped off, out of curiousity? You can trade stuff without dropping it on the ground, but I don't think many people even realize that.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rendakor on June 08, 2012, 08:17:01 PM
Like Setanta I think I'm putting D3 down for a while. Made it to Act 2 Hell on my ~55 Wizard, and haven't logged on in more than a week with no real interest in doing so. I could give a long list of reasons why but most of them have been repeated ad nauseum so I'll just say that kiting elite/champions around for 20m is not fun. Running around Normal and NM in nearly perma-Archon and turning packs of mobs into loot pinatas was awesome, however that playstyle is simply not viable in Hell nor (I imagine) Inferno.

That said, I had fun and will probably come back once they fix some problems. In all honestly this is about as far as I got in D2 (never made it past Act 3 NM).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 08, 2012, 08:29:41 PM

How are they getting ripped off, out of curiousity? You can trade stuff without dropping it on the ground, but I don't think many people even realize that.

Using the trade UI. They take their item out after putting it in and hitting accept, then they hit accept. (via macro). They do this after hitting cancel on the trade a few times to make the other guy think there is a glitch and to take them off guard.

Not sure why people trade rather than use the auction house.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on June 08, 2012, 09:50:50 PM
Bleh!

But yeah, that's one more point for the AH I guess.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Yegolev on June 08, 2012, 10:53:53 PM
Did someone complain about being put into General chat whenever the game starts?  I'm doing it.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on June 09, 2012, 12:00:55 AM
Did someone complain about being put into General chat whenever the game starts?  I'm doing it.

Yup - and when you report spam/farmers and shitty little 12yo's with foul mouths, it doesn't block future spam from them. FFS Blizzard, you had this in WoW, would it be too hard to implement?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on June 09, 2012, 02:33:42 AM
Did someone complain about being put into General chat whenever the game starts?  I'm doing it.

Yup - and when you report spam/farmers and shitty little 12yo's with foul mouths, it doesn't block future spam from them. FFS Blizzard, you had this in WoW, would it be too hard to implement?

Appearantly it's a bug. Reporting spam is supposed to ignore them too. I guess it got very little testing as without being forced who in their right mind would join general.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Dren on June 09, 2012, 06:12:17 AM
They can have their General chat in all its own glory, but if I leave I don't want to be automatically put back in it the next time I log in.  That is getting really old. 

If anyone knows of a setting that will give me my wish, I'll think of you fondly.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Pennilenko on June 09, 2012, 07:12:59 AM
I believe that there are some really legitimate complaints about the game here, and certainly there are things that need to be addressed, but good god some of you(and i mean a few) are seriously delusional about how terrible you are at the game.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Amaron on June 09, 2012, 07:56:49 AM
but good god some of you(and i mean a few) are seriously delusional about how terrible you are at the game.

What?  I don't remember a single complaint that could of been alleviated by being a better player.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on June 09, 2012, 07:57:29 AM
That's a lot of words when you can just type l2p.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on June 09, 2012, 03:16:05 PM
I believe that there are some really legitimate complaints about the game here, and certainly there are things that need to be addressed, but good god some of you(and i mean a few) are seriously delusional about how terrible you are at the game.

Yeah, because higher skill will somehow make you avoid error 37, fix in-game lag, fix drop tables, change the game back to a loot game from a money collecting game, fix UI issues, make you not join gen chat at startup, etc.

The only type of player skill that would address the complaints in this thread would be enough skill to program your own better game.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lightstalker on June 09, 2012, 07:16:12 PM
Having been encouraged into ever more unbalanced builds to continue progressing as a Wizard...  I just have to say FFS, understand your own game.  I just don't have the mitigation abilities to make anything else viable, most of the wizard abilities are about controlling time and space and I die quickly when the opposition negate that control (grab-smack combo kills, charging from off-screen, teleport and vortex).  When you are in melee you don't care how fast things move, you don't care how much they bounce you around (within limits, ground effects are much more important).  You are already assuming you are going to take hits and not just 1 or 2, your entire class is built around mitigating the damage those hits cause rather than the ability of the opposition to deal those hits at all.  When you've got a passive ability called Glass Cannon it really isn't sensible to complain when people play glass cannons. 

I don't think these guys are qualified to work on this game.  They rebuilt an old game, made it pretty, but still don't understand what made it work in the first place.  Somebody kickstart Diablo 1 so I can play offline again. 

I can boost DPS, but I cannot boost health or mitigation into a viable level with the available gear that drops or I can afford on the AH.  When single hits clock in at over 250k pegging my life total at 30k or 50k is largely irrelevant.  Across those life totals I do have a relevant decision to make, I can have 30k or 15k DPS which certainly impacts my ability to mitigate incoming damage (by melting mobs before they get to touch me).  Blaming players for making due with the tools you have made available is really weak tea.   


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: KallDrexx on June 09, 2012, 07:19:58 PM
This is fucking stupid.  I just got back from a 2 week vacation and load the game up.  I'm not even looking at loot anymore, I just pick up anything blue + and immediately vendor it because it's shitty compared to what I paid 5k in the AH before I left. 

Seriouisly, this game needs to scale shit to your level (with a % modifier based on what difficulty you are playing).  It's stupid that at level 21 in act 2 my monk just got my first legendary, a crappy level 14 bow......

Sure I can try and just play the game without going to the auction house, but I have literally never gotten one item my level since about halfway into act 1.  So sure, I could intentionally gimp myself ignoring thet auction house so that I'm always wearing loot that is 5-6 levels below me, but that's just as dumb.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on June 09, 2012, 08:11:58 PM
I don't see the problem, once you play Inferno - Act III you get loot for your level!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: KallDrexx on June 09, 2012, 08:22:49 PM
Actually I started looking at loot and I was wrong.  I'm not getting loot 5-6 levels below me, almost all of the blue loot is 8-12 levels (most of it being level 9, I'm level 21).

What's also dumb is that without playing with friends, powerleveling, etc.. I've outleveled things so much that I 1-2 shot blues and 3-4 shot yellows.  The only time I touch the 1-4 keys is if I decide to refresh my mantra, or if I have a lot of enemies and I want to throw up a blind.  Usually though it's just left click, with the occasional right click.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 09, 2012, 08:29:12 PM
Well, you're in normal mode.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 09, 2012, 08:48:47 PM


What's also dumb is that without playing with friends, powerleveling, etc.. I've outleveled things so much that I 1-2 shot blues and 3-4 shot yellows.  The only time I touch the 1-4 keys is if I decide to refresh my mantra, or if I have a lot of enemies and I want to throw up a blind.  Usually though it's just left click, with the occasional right click.

You're playing in the difficulty mode designed for people who barely play video games, let alone post on forums like this.  Just plow through it and move on.  You'd probably be in nightmare by now if you spent less time complaining and more playing.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: ezrast on June 09, 2012, 09:38:40 PM
I just don't have the mitigation abilities to make anything else viable, most of the wizard abilities are about controlling time and space and I die quickly when the opposition negate that control (grab-smack combo kills, charging from off-screen, teleport and vortex).
This is my biggest complaint. There isn't a set of character abilities in the game I wouldn't trade for having a short-CD teleport, the ability to create walls at will, permanent Blaze, and life steal that actually works - all something that a single mob can have. It's not that the monsters are stronger than I am. It's that they're having more fun than I am.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on June 09, 2012, 11:07:11 PM
This is my biggest complaint. There isn't a set of character abilities in the game I wouldn't trade for having a short-CD teleport, the ability to create walls at will, permanent Blaze, and life steal that actually works - all something that a single mob can have. It's not that the monsters are stronger than I am. It's that they're having more fun than I am.

I created a DemonHunter today and noticed their 'teleport' (called tumble) doesn't have a cooldown. It's 35 yards range, and there is enough Discipline to tumble around 5-6 times.
Turns out a lvl 28 DH has more mobility than a 60 Wizard. Blah.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on June 09, 2012, 11:20:20 PM
I was amused and appalled when I realized my level 6 monk could teleport better than my wizard.  So long as there was something punchable in range.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on June 10, 2012, 04:22:53 AM
There isn't a set of character abilities in the game I wouldn't trade for having a short-CD teleport, the ability to create walls at will, permanent Blaze, and life steal that actually works - all something that a single mob can have. It's not that the monsters are stronger than I am. It's that they're having more fun than I am.

This quote should be plastered all over the Blizzard forums - congratulations on making me laugh... somewhat wryly.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 10, 2012, 04:44:19 AM
This 'game' is utter wank.

Apart from helping the wife, I'm done.

All Online Shite aside, it's just not fun or good or terribly well done. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 10, 2012, 06:25:14 AM
Actually I started looking at loot and I was wrong.  I'm not getting loot 5-6 levels below me, almost all of the blue loot is 8-12 levels (most of it being level 9, I'm level 21).

What's also dumb is that without playing with friends, powerleveling, etc.. I've outleveled things so much that I 1-2 shot blues and 3-4 shot yellows.  The only time I touch the 1-4 keys is if I decide to refresh my mantra, or if I have a lot of enemies and I want to throw up a blind.  Usually though it's just left click, with the occasional right click.

Normal mode is too easy. Nightmare mode starts to get interesting. Hell mode is fun, hard enough to be challenging. Inferno mode is stupidly hard.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why the loot drops were designed this way. It takes a lot of the fun out of the game when you rarely get a drop that is usable, and you spend a great deal of effort fighting an elite pack, only to have shit drop. I am skeptical that it is not designed around the auction house; why else would the AH be required to progress through inferno (or finding a gimmick build).



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on June 10, 2012, 06:27:41 AM
It's exactly the same way Diablo 2 did loot. That's the problem - they replicated D2 without understanding the impact the AH and the difficulty in Inferno would have on people and the items dropping.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Azazel on June 10, 2012, 06:28:15 AM
I'm nowhere the level of you guys. I think my highest is 14 or 17 or something. My main problem is that the game is just boring.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 10, 2012, 06:38:30 AM
The NA forums are full of Asian players complaining that the Asian servers are unplayable. We're approaching the one-month mark and servers are still unstable?



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 10, 2012, 06:53:16 AM
Still having fun when I feel like playing.  I haven't gone at it hardcore and I knew it wasn't an all the time game for me.

I wasn't having fun when paying attention to this forum.. when I stopped, fun resumed.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on June 10, 2012, 07:00:34 AM
Having a hard time figuring out why drops in Inferno are below level 60 (or 60 reduced level +xx amount). I should stop trying to figure out stuff.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on June 10, 2012, 07:14:00 AM
Why they did it that way? I have no idea but I can't wait until they change the Inferno drop rates in 1.0.3, although they should scooch all of the drop rates in the other difficulties too.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on June 10, 2012, 10:14:10 AM
Why they did it that way? I have no idea but I can't wait until they change the Inferno drop rates in 1.0.3, although they should scooch all of the drop rates in the other difficulties too.

Because that's what Diablo 2 did.

I know I keep repeating this, but Diablo 2's loot system is widely regarded as one of the best ever. They copied it to D3 without changing it at all, and that's why parts of it don't work.

Hell mode in D2 dropped items well below hell quality, but it didn't matter because the game wasn't a gear check like d3 is, and there wasn't the equivalent of inferno which only takes place at max level.

D2 was balanced around those drop rates. D3 is as well up to inferno difficulty, but because the AH is always there and you can see in it gear that is a big upgrade all the time it heightens the fact that the Diablo loot system gives you a bad roll of the dice 9 times out of 10 and is designed that way.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Selby on June 10, 2012, 10:24:31 AM
Still having fun when I feel like playing.  I haven't gone at it hardcore and I knew it wasn't an all the time game for me.
This is how I feel about the game personally.  I have fun when I play and when it makes me angry or frustrated I stop and resume later.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: KallDrexx on June 10, 2012, 10:37:08 AM
Normal mode is too easy. Nightmare mode starts to get interesting. Hell mode is fun, hard enough to be challenging. Inferno mode is stupidly hard.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why the loot drops were designed this way. It takes a lot of the fun out of the game when you rarely get a drop that is usable, and you spend a great deal of effort fighting an elite pack, only to have shit drop. I am skeptical that it is not designed around the auction house; why else would the AH be required to progress through inferno (or finding a gimmick build).

I get that, and that's what annoys me about people telling me to stop bitching and finish normal.  Rushing through is totally against how I play (I like to run around and explore, especially the first play through), and yet everyone always bitches about MMOs that don't capture your interest right away.  What annoys me more is the idea that if I want to try another class, I have to trudge through mind-numbing normal just to start having fun with that class.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 10, 2012, 11:14:48 AM
Why they did it that way? I have no idea but I can't wait until they change the Inferno drop rates in 1.0.3, although they should scooch all of the drop rates in the other difficulties too.

Because that's what Diablo 2 did.

I know I keep repeating this, but Diablo 2's loot system is widely regarded as one of the best ever. They copied it to D3 without changing it at all, and that's why parts of it don't work.

Hell mode in D2 dropped items well below hell quality, but it didn't matter because the game wasn't a gear check like d3 is, and there wasn't the equivalent of inferno which only takes place at max level.

D2 was balanced around those drop rates. D3 is as well up to inferno difficulty, but because the AH is always there and you can see in it gear that is a big upgrade all the time it heightens the fact that the Diablo loot system gives you a bad roll of the dice 9 times out of 10 and is designed that way.

I think a lot of people here are remembering too fondly the drop rate or quality of drops in Diablo 2 as well.  You didn't find upgrades often in D2, you absolutely did not.  Not in normal, not in nightmare, not in hell.  In fact, given that they've removed strength requirements for gear in D3, I'd argue you find a lot more stuff that you can upgrade with in normal mode because you aren't hamstrung by  strength, which lets you equip a lot of those marginal ugprades that make sense only in normal mode (like equipping a strength/vitality item as a wizard because it has a ton of vitality and nothing else with good INT has dropped lately).   

I've mentioned this before, but I played through Diablo 2 normal mode a couple weeks before D3 went live with a friend for old time's sake and I played amazon.  I literally had to resort to gambling for bows in Act 3 because we just flat got no good bow drops all through Act 2 and most of Act 3. By my memory, this was typical in D2 (if you didn't have a high level character to use for twinking) and the fact that many of you seem so upset that you can mitigate bad luck on drops with the AH in D3 is mind boggling to me.

This is a separate issue from the end game itemization and drops issue, which Blizzard is addressing in the next patch, so while those complaints are legitimate they are fixing those problems soon.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on June 10, 2012, 11:52:10 AM
 I've mentioned this before, but I played through Diablo 2 normal mode a couple weeks before D3 went live with a friend for old time's sake and I played amazon.  I literally had to resort to gambling for bows in Act 3 because we just flat got no good bow drops all through Act 2 and most of Act 3. By my memory, this was typical in D2 (if you didn't have a high level character to use for twinking) and the fact that many of you seem so upset that you can mitigate bad luck on drops with the AH in D3 is mind boggling to me.

Gambling for items mimics the slot-machine effect of drops in normal gameplay. It's more fun hoping you'll get something cool and sometimes getting a big pay off than it is plugging the exact stats you want into the AH and buying your perfect item while leveling.

I know plenty of people probably hated gambling for upgrades in Diablo 2, but I enjoyed it more than I enjoy the AH. It felt more like gameplay, less like cheating.

I get that, and that's what annoys me about people telling me to stop bitching and finish normal.  Rushing through is totally against how I play (I like to run around and explore, especially the first play through), and yet everyone always bitches about MMOs that don't capture your interest right away.  What annoys me more is the idea that if I want to try another class, I have to trudge through mind-numbing normal just to start having fun with that class.

I was fine with the normal mode difficulty since it's only the starting point for your character, but it really did kill my desire to play hardcore mode. I don't want to repeat normal mode, given how boring it is, every time one of my characters die.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: koro on June 10, 2012, 12:09:05 PM
 I've mentioned this before, but I played through Diablo 2 normal mode a couple weeks before D3 went live with a friend for old time's sake and I played amazon.  I literally had to resort to gambling for bows in Act 3 because we just flat got no good bow drops all through Act 2 and most of Act 3. By my memory, this was typical in D2 (if you didn't have a high level character to use for twinking) and the fact that many of you seem so upset that you can mitigate bad luck on drops with the AH in D3 is mind boggling to me.

Gambling for items mimics the slot-machine effect of drops in normal gameplay. It's more fun hoping you'll get something cool and sometimes getting a big pay off than it is plugging the exact stats you want into the AH and buying your perfect item while leveling.

I know plenty of people probably hated gambling for upgrades in Diablo 2, but I enjoyed it more than I enjoy the AH. It felt more like gameplay, less like cheating.

Especially since you had to earn the money to gamble with in the first place, which meant going out and killing stuff. Which also gives you more opportunities for good drops from enemies.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 10, 2012, 12:22:37 PM
I'm struggling with 'The Loot Is The Same As Diablo 2' lie when I haven't seen hide nor hair of a unique yet, despite completing the game on 3 seperate difficulty levels.

Possibly I'm just unlucky.  Or someone else is talking utter shite.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 10, 2012, 12:29:16 PM


Gambling for items mimics the slot-machine effect of drops in normal gameplay. It's more fun hoping you'll get something cool and sometimes getting a big pay off than it is plugging the exact stats you want into the AH and buying your perfect item while leveling.

I know plenty of people probably hated gambling for upgrades in Diablo 2, but I enjoyed it more than I enjoy the AH. It felt more like gameplay, less like cheating.



K, I guess this is just a difference of opinion.  I gambled in D2 regularly and was fine with it, but feeling like I had no other way to get an upgrade than to gamble on every bow which showed up in the gamble vendor isn't really "gameplay" to me.  Also, I suppose trading with people in D2 felt like cheating to you as well?


Especially since you had to earn the money to gamble with in the first place, which meant going out and killing stuff. Which also gives you more opportunities for good drops from enemies.

Yeah, because this is so totally different from using the AH in Diablo 3.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 10, 2012, 12:52:25 PM
If you changed slot machines to 'Put in 30 quid and it'll pay out 100'  people would play them more.

They'd enjoy them less.

Strange, but true.

Comparing the AH to Gambling is silly.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on June 10, 2012, 01:59:56 PM
I'm struggling with 'The Loot Is The Same As Diablo 2' lie when I haven't seen hide nor hair of a unique yet, despite completing the game on 3 seperate difficulty levels.

Possibly I'm just unlucky.  Or someone else is talking utter shite.


It's not a lie, you are talking about two completely separate things.

The comment re. loot being the same as Diablo 2 was regarding the drop rate of low level items in higher level difficulties. Which is demonstrably true - just look at the loot tables for D2.

Uniques is a separate issue - here the issue is that the game is like Diablo 2 vanilla, and not the Diablo 2 + LoD + 1.09 + 1.10 patches we are all used to. In vanilla D2 uniques were incredibly rare, and completely useless. Go look at the Arreat Summit item list for uniques, and notice how few there are that were not added in 1.09 or 1.10. There were 2 unique helms in the *entire* game in vanilla D2, and if you ever saw either you were astonishingly lucky.

For some reason (presumably content for expansions?), they haven't puot anywhere near as many uniques into the game, and the drop rate resembles vanilla D2 and not D2 + LoD in that respect. (although again - I've played characters through to Baal Hell and never seen a single unique drop ever until I started farming Mephisto, Lord of Shopping Trolleys).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on June 10, 2012, 02:09:03 PM
I finally had some legendary pants drop the other day. The AH range for them is from 20 billion to 100k.  :awesome_for_real: Still haven't been able sell them, even at 80k.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on June 10, 2012, 02:11:37 PM
Also, I suppose trading with people in D2 felt like cheating to you as well?

I didn't do much trading in Diablo 2 but the set pieces and uniques I got through normal gameplay or gambling definitely felt a lot better than the pieces I'd get from trading. Even then, trading felt more like gameplay than the AH does because you were still haggling directly with other players.

If I traded more in D2 or spent more time at end-game, I'd appreciate the AH much more than I do. I can't imagine trying to build the best possible set and monitoring countless forums/public game/chat ads was much fun but that wasn't how I played Diablo games.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 10, 2012, 02:26:32 PM
I'm struggling with 'The Loot Is The Same As Diablo 2' lie when I haven't seen hide nor hair of a unique yet, despite completing the game on 3 seperate difficulty levels.

Possibly I'm just unlucky.  Or someone else is talking utter shite.


It's not a lie, you are talking about two completely separate things.

The comment re. loot being the same as Diablo 2 was regarding the drop rate of low level items in higher level difficulties. Which is demonstrably true - just look at the loot tables for D2.

Uniques is a separate issue - here the issue is that the game is like Diablo 2 vanilla, and not the Diablo 2 + LoD + 1.09 + 1.10 patches we are all used to. In vanilla D2 uniques were incredibly rare, and completely useless. Go look at the Arreat Summit item list for uniques, and notice how few there are that were not added in 1.09 or 1.10. There were 2 unique helms in the *entire* game in vanilla D2, and if you ever saw either you were astonishingly lucky.

For some reason (presumably content for expansions?), they haven't puot anywhere near as many uniques into the game, and the drop rate resembles vanilla D2 and not D2 + LoD in that respect. (although again - I've played characters through to Baal Hell and never seen a single unique drop ever until I started farming Mephisto, Lord of Shopping Trolleys).

I hear what you're saying.  You're saying I should be playing Diablo 2 plus expansions for free, rather than this pile of fucking shite for 60 Eurobar.

Glad we're on the same page.


(Content for expansions.  Lol.  Fool me once...)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 10, 2012, 02:28:13 PM

I hear what you're saying.  You're saying I should be playing Diablo 2 plus expansions for free, rather than this pile of fucking shite for 60 Eurobar.

Glad we're on the same page.



You should seriously go do this and tell us if you still feel the same way after a play through.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 10, 2012, 05:18:06 PM
Cannot get some of the dungeons and events to spawn, at all.

The Lyceum is currently bugged and will not spawn but had trouble with others as well. Tried the whole evening to get the crumbling vault or eternal war to spawn but to no avail. Farmed enough money to get Jeweler and Blacksmith to Level 10.

I also see gear inflation. My big bargain bow I bought for 300,000 won't even sell for half price.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on June 10, 2012, 08:31:15 PM
Sudden spike of over 2000 ms (to quote Gabe, that's just plain seconds.)  Exit, restart, try to log in.  Error 37.

Utter fucking bullshit.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Outlawedprod on June 10, 2012, 09:06:15 PM
Sudden spike of over 2000 ms (to quote Gabe, that's just plain seconds.)  Exit, restart, try to log in.  Error 37.

Utter fucking bullshit.

Looks to be everywhere.  Bet there where a lot of HC deaths tonight =p


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 10, 2012, 10:07:21 PM
Why they did it that way? I have no idea but I can't wait until they change the Inferno drop rates in 1.0.3, although they should scooch all of the drop rates in the other difficulties too.

Because that's what Diablo 2 did.

I know I keep repeating this, but Diablo 2's loot system is widely regarded as one of the best ever. They copied it to D3 without changing it at all, and that's why parts of it don't work.

Hell mode in D2 dropped items well below hell quality, but it didn't matter because the game wasn't a gear check like d3 is, and there wasn't the equivalent of inferno which only takes place at max level.

D2 was balanced around those drop rates. D3 is as well up to inferno difficulty, but because the AH is always there and you can see in it gear that is a big upgrade all the time it heightens the fact that the Diablo loot system gives you a bad roll of the dice 9 times out of 10 and is designed that way.

I think you're right about the why. Still, designing the loot system just like D2 is a lame reason when D3 is not D2.

It's as though Jay Wilson wanted to make Inferno ridiculously difficult only so a teeny tiny portion of the population would get thru it because of arbitrarily silly obstacles, one of which being the super dumb loot drop design. I know I'm not being kind here, but inferno difficulty is retarded. It's hard for me to see just how this was thought through. As it currently stands, it appeals to a minority of masochistic players. Most if not all of the people who've managed to get through it have done so using gimmicky builds.

Still, D3 is really fun until inferno. I suspect it will be adjusted to make inferno fun as well. I could totally see myself buying an expansion. (Not if I was Ironwood; what he's had to put up with is ridiculous.)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on June 11, 2012, 12:28:35 AM
I'm struggling with 'The Loot Is The Same As Diablo 2' lie when I haven't seen hide nor hair of a unique yet, despite completing the game on 3 seperate difficulty levels.

Possibly I'm just unlucky.  Or someone else is talking utter shite.


I have found 5 legendarys. Don't you use magic find gear? I can show you 4 of them in game if you like. pm me if you want to see. They are all pretty crappy though. Also I had the flash on loot tool tips until recently and it may have cause me to miss a couple of drops as I discovered the corpses can actually cover up loot glows. Found at least 2 of my legendarys by a quick check of the area after before leaving. Never use that stupid fade out setting. :)

However from what I remember and I actually made a bit of a study of it at the time, Diablo 2's drop rate was far worse than D3's. Diablo 2's drop rate on rares at least was far far worse than D3 and magic find was almost unnoticable back then too. I played with one of the hack programs once i'd got fairly tired of d2 and gave myself something like 50 or 100 magic find and did some pindleskin runs and the drops were pathetic. Meanwhile with 60-80 mf in D3 the drops get noticably better.




Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on June 11, 2012, 12:34:40 AM
I finally had some legendary pants drop the other day. The AH range for them is from 20 billion to 100k.  :awesome_for_real: Still haven't been able sell them, even at 80k.

I'm convinced a lot of people use the ah as temporary storage hence the insane prices.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ragnoros on June 11, 2012, 02:39:29 AM
Nevermind. I'm just going to stop reading this thread.

I will say I am sorry many of our Euro members have had such a hard time playing, and that Blizzard should feel ashamed at such ineptitude, regardless of financial or whatever the fuck considerations.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 11, 2012, 02:47:41 AM
This is the new Blizzard.  I suspect things are going to be like this for good now.  It's back to being about the bottom line and the least one can get away with.

Diablo III is pretty much the definition of 'the least one can get away with'.  I know for a fact if it hadn't been Blizzard or have the word Diablo in it, even the chaps here with glowing praise would be fucking panning it.

Ah well.  Torchlight Test Time, I guess.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ragnoros on June 11, 2012, 03:03:14 AM
Diablo III is pretty much the definition of 'the least one can get away with'.  I know for a fact if it hadn't been Blizzard or have the word Diablo in it, even the chaps here with glowing praise would be fucking panning it.

I don't know. I can't speak for everyone, but personally I would hardly consider my consensus "glowing praise". To put my words into the mouths of others who are defending the game, I believe it comes down to a lot of the bitching here being bitching about what makes Diablo, Diablo. Which the old Diablo diehards like myself just feel compelled to defend. Diablo without a lot of random crappy loot is just not Diablo.

I can radially agree that the game is far from perfect. Probably far from great for that matter.
Ignoring the server issues. As has be said many times, it just seems like they ignored many of the lessons learned from D2:LoD and the later patches in favor of doing their new vision, or whatever. But the game has been mostly fun (if not raptor jesus) for the many hours I have played. So I can't bitch too much.

(Yes, I know I said I was going to stop reading this thread...)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 11, 2012, 03:06:15 AM
It's strange, I agree with everything you just wrote, except the bit about 'mostly fun'.  I'm not seeing the fun.  Possibly, I'm suffering from the primacy effect where my bad experiences out the gate has coloured my perceptions but I don't think so.

I just don't find it fun.  I don't find it as fun as other Diablo's, even now. 

Here's my final word on the matter :  Playing Diablo III feels exactly to me as if I'm playing Titan Quest.  And I didn't like Titan Quest all that much.  Same problems of loot, same problems of enemies and toughness, same problem of skill trees and skills that blew.  Now stick in the AH to 'help you through that rough patch' and you feel....dirty.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ice Cream Emperor on June 11, 2012, 03:16:33 AM
I have found 5 legendarys. Don't you use magic find gear?

Try not to be a dick about having a different experience than someone else. I have two level 60s with combined play-time of 130 hours, one of whom has been in 100-150% magic find gear more or less perpetually, the other having spent 30 odd hours farming Act 1 Inferno in similar gear -- and so far I have found two legendaries.

Random numbers are random, but I seem to encounter a lot more people with my anecdotal experience than yours.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ragnoros on June 11, 2012, 03:18:12 AM
It's strange, I agree with everything you just wrote, except the bit about 'mostly fun'.  I'm not seeing the fun.  Possibly, I'm suffering from the primacy effect where my bad experiences out the gate has coloured my perceptions but I don't think so.

I just don't find it fun.  I don't find it as fun as other Diablo's, even now. 

Here's my final word on the matter :  Playing Diablo III feels exactly to me as if I'm playing Titan Quest.  And I didn't like Titan Quest all that much.  Same problems of loot, same problems of enemies and toughness, same problem of skill trees and skills that blew.  Now stick in the AH to 'help you through that rough patch' and you feel....dirty.


Thanks. Obviously if you are not having fun (or your servers do not work) then you are not having fun, and you have every right to bitch. But per f13 it seems like many people (not you specifically) go out of their way to not have fun so they can have something to bitch about.

I know I can feel I am getting to the end of what fun/content is available. I have battled most of the way through Inferno Act 3 and feel little need to do Act 4. But more importantly, the main draw I was hoping for, getting a bunch of MF and collecting every fun new unique and set item to play with on twinks and just for fun, simply does not exist in the game. Lawl at 100+ hours played (all with a bunch of MF) and like 4 legendary items found + crappy random uniques and sets. As others have said, for a game X years in the making, it does feel a bit content light.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 11, 2012, 05:02:17 AM
I almost get the feeling D3 is aimed at a different audience and the old one can't adapt.  I'm enjoying it and I know it's not because it says "Blizzard" and certainly not because it says "Diablo" but because I find it entertaining.

I hated D2, couldn't ever get in to it.  Tried Titan Quest and didn't like it and I know that Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance for the PS2 had a lot of proponents but I just couldn't get into that, either.    Played Torchlight and it was entertaining and I liked the loot there despite that getting panned.  Different strokes, different gamer appeals.

I don't think it's about "the least you can get away with" but it certainly IS a different Blizzard.  That's become more apparent over the last 4 years and I agree it's not for the best.  That this game spent the majority of it's development in that culture does mean it will be a different game.  More focused on revenue over the long term and strategic business decisions than the best gameplay.   

I'd agree that the legendaries part was done on purpose for expansion content.  Seems a simple decision, give them a taste the real kick comes with the first X-pack! (I expect no fewer than 3).   

I'd also agree that Hardcore was done to appeal to very tiny fraction of the playerbase.   Much like the Hardcore modes of WoW raids. "L2P" is the mantra of the new Blizzard and that drives Achievement players.  Their WoW stats have shown that there's a hell of a lot of achievement players out there and if you get content where only a fraction can complete it, the idea that you can do it trickles down.   It's the new e-peen and the drama keeps players engaged.

Then there will be some stupid new difficulty level with the x-pack.  Inferno will get easier as the gear inflates along with levels and the new stupid difficulty will be "killer clown" or "Abyss" or whatever other analog for "the bad place" they come up with to name it.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on June 11, 2012, 05:11:31 AM
Before you vacate the thread for good Ironwood, here the promised answer from Blizzard:

--- quote ---
Sorry about the wait time at the moment. We are currently dealing with the launch of a new product along with the on-going support for Scroll of Resurrection, MoP Beta, Recruit a Friend and the Arena Pass. This has led to a longer than usual response time and we thank you for your patience while we work through this busy period.

       The previous response you have given is correct and this is our current stance on the refunds for digital content purchases which includes Diablo 3. If you wish to take this matter further as you believe the law in your country allows for a longer refund period then you shall need to discuss this matter with our legal department.

       You can contact our Legal team at:

       Blizzard Entertainment Europe
       Legal Department
       145, rue Yves Le Coz
       78000 Versailles
       France

--- quote

Which I translate in my head as "You are right, sue us you sucker".


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 11, 2012, 05:20:15 AM
I'd agree with that translation. 



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 11, 2012, 05:24:40 AM
That would be like attacking an insane asylum with a banana.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on June 11, 2012, 05:26:45 AM
Yeah, I think I will just keep my Account and call this one the fee for my "Don't buy anything from Blizzard anymore" epiphany.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 11, 2012, 08:06:02 AM
Did you attempt to get your refund within 7 business days?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 11, 2012, 08:18:47 AM
Paelos there is no "refund within 7 business days".

Blizzard grants a refund within 14 days if no account was activated and 3 days if an account was activated. I already posted that info a few pages ago.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 11, 2012, 08:26:57 AM
That wasn't why I was asking.

The reason I was asking was because as far as I know Austria falls under the Consumer Protection Laws of the European Union, which has protection for consumers on distance contracts.

Under Directive 97/7/EC, Article 6 section 1: "For any distance contract the consumer shall have seven working days in which to withdraw from the contract without penalty and without giving any reason."


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Slayerik on June 11, 2012, 08:31:05 AM
I'll pop in and be a defender. My entire house plays this game. One of my sons just beat Diablo (after some AHing by me). Whenever you see a non-HC guy playing it's one of my family, and they are all enjoying the crap out of it. So, I guess it may be good for the less jaded/experienced. We have had no real problems, minus the first day or two of server issues.  

I personally am hooked on hardcore, but I've always been a little extreme on that kinda shit (enjoy full looting games, consequences in my games). Trying to get to 60 completely solo. Just started Hell.

They did some shit right, but I think it def could have been thought out better. I have been into it more than I was D2, for whatever reason.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on June 11, 2012, 08:53:28 AM
No Paelos, KSchG §8. Warranty due to flaws.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 11, 2012, 08:55:36 AM
Under Directive 97/7/EC, Article 6 section 1: "For any distance contract the consumer shall have seven working days in which to withdraw from the contract without penalty and without giving any reason."

BTW SW is treated like any other sale of physical goods even including the applicability of the "first sale" doctrine. (shrink wrap licenses are invalid in the EU because you can only accept or decline them AFTER you made the purchase). The deadline is also 14 days now not 7.

Merchandise that is unsuitable or unfit for return is exempt from that regulation however. Software is exempt from those regulations when it falls under one or more of the following conditions.

1. The physical medium was sealed and the seal is broken
2. There is no physical medium (direct download)
3. It is only usable after an acount is activated and said account was already activated

So the only other recourse for returning is if it is defective or unfit for the purpose that it was advertised.

So the only other option is either the manufacturer's warranty (which doesn't apply because of the 3 business days rule) or general goodwill from Blizzard


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Job601 on June 11, 2012, 10:27:45 AM
This is the new Blizzard.  I suspect things are going to be like this for good now.  It's back to being about the bottom line and the least one can get away with.

Diablo III is pretty much the definition of 'the least one can get away with'.  I know for a fact if it hadn't been Blizzard or have the word Diablo in it, even the chaps here with glowing praise would be fucking panning it.


I know for a fact that if this game wasn't by Blizzard, everyone would be talking about how some upstart game company managed to make the best action rpg of all time.  Look how much praise Torchlight got, and that game (while pretty good) is not even in the same class in pretty much any department!  I agree with many of the criticisms in this thread, but if anything, I think people are attacking the game more than it deserves because their expectations from Blizzard are sky-high.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 11, 2012, 10:35:36 AM


I personally am hooked on hardcore, but I've always been a little extreme on that kinda shit (enjoy full looting games, consequences in my games). Trying to get to 60 completely solo. Just started Hell.
 

How has this been going in terms of server stability?  I'm really hesitant to play HC due to lag spikes, which I seem to get a couple of times a night.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on June 11, 2012, 11:17:09 AM
I have found 5 legendarys. Don't you use magic find gear?

Try not to be a dick about having a different experience than someone else. I have two level 60s with combined play-time of 130 hours, one of whom has been in 100-150% magic find gear more or less perpetually, the other having spent 30 odd hours farming Act 1 Inferno in similar gear -- and so far I have found two legendaries.

Random numbers are random, but I seem to encounter a lot more people with my anecdotal experience than yours.

What? It's being a dick to ask if you use magic find gear? Who knew? Maybe try not to be so sensitive? I know Ironwood would have tore my head off if it actually offended him.




Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on June 11, 2012, 11:20:26 AM
I almost get the feeling D3 is aimed at a different audience and the old one can't adapt.  I'm enjoying it and I know it's not because it says "Blizzard" and certainly not because it says "Diablo" but because I find it entertaining.

Well from the amount of time their servers have been up we know it wasn't aimed at Koreans heh.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 11, 2012, 11:21:37 AM
I know for a fact that if this game wasn't by Blizzard, everyone would be talking about how some upstart game company managed to make the best action rpg of all time.

Really ?  Really ??

(and, no, Phred, not offended.  Don't use magic find, but didnt in D2 either, so...)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Job601 on June 11, 2012, 11:26:06 AM
I know for a fact that if this game wasn't by Blizzard, everyone would be talking about how some upstart game company managed to make the best action rpg of all time.

Really ?  Really ??


Yeah, really.  That's the same reaction I had to what you said!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 11, 2012, 11:32:35 AM
Which is fine, but you think that story is the best in action RPG ? 

You think the skills and the range of same beat others in the genre ?

You think the graphics and audio beat all others hands down ?

The launch was smooth, right ?  And the Auction house doesn't break the fun at all and turn it into a gold farming simulator ?  The Enemies are totally balanced and have a nice scaling difficulty like many others in the genre ?

I disagree, really.  I'm still saying 'Titan Quest with a Blizzard Logo on it.'

But I'm glad you're enjoying it.  Really. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Slayerik on June 11, 2012, 11:36:22 AM


I personally am hooked on hardcore, but I've always been a little extreme on that kinda shit (enjoy full looting games, consequences in my games). Trying to get to 60 completely solo. Just started Hell.
 

How has this been going in terms of server stability?  I'm really hesitant to play HC due to lag spikes, which I seem to get a couple of times a night.

*Knocks on wood* I play from starting at 9-10pm EST until 1-2am EST and have had no real issues with lag/DCs/spikes. I figure that will probably be what gets me. That or a vortex arc enchanted immune BS pack.

Once you try hardcore and see the difference in the AH, I have found it hard to go back. So far I've lost a 34 DH, and a couple lowbie wizards. It gets quite a bit easier to plow through the early levels once you get a few items in your stash, and gems. If you end up playing HC hit me up.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on June 11, 2012, 11:54:04 AM
I know for a fact that if this game wasn't by Blizzard, everyone would be talking about how some upstart game company managed to make the best action rpg of all time.

Really ?  Really ??

(and, no, Phred, not offended.  Don't use magic find, but didnt in D2 either, so...)

If you were finding sets and uniques in D2 without MF then you were the luckiest man alive. Drop rate was MUCH lower in D2 because you could stack MF to ridiculous levels, far higher than D3. Without MF even the Lord of Shopping Trolleys dropped crap.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Job601 on June 11, 2012, 11:58:10 AM

You think the skills and the range of same beat others in the genre ?

I emphatically do think this.  There's no game in the genre that has as many different interesting skills that can be combined in so many interesting ways, which different kinds of builds being viable at different player power levels and for different kinds of enemies.  This is my favorite part of the game.  In fact, it's just not even close, and it's hard for me to believe people disagree about this.  The class design in this game is just fantastic -- they made five classes who all have different resource mechanics, and they all matter (or at least can't be trivialized with gear.)  I'm not sure I have ever played a game like this where running out of a resource was a thing you had to worry about past early levels.

You think the graphics and audio beat all others hands down ?

They're not perfect, but yeah, I guess I would say this -- the voice-acting is overall pretty good, the game is both great-looking in its own painterly way and communicates what's going on very clearly.  Again, what game is going to compete with it?

The launch was smooth, right ?  And the Auction house doesn't break the fun at all and turn it into a gold farming simulator ?  The Enemies are totally balanced and have a nice scaling difficulty like many others in the genre ?

The launch is a valid complaint, I guess, but since the first week it's been pretty much smooth sailing here in the U.S.  Forget the launch, that's a week out of a game people will play for years.  The Auction House does have disadvantages, but it has a lot of advantages, too.  It's a design choice with costs and benefits.

I don't know what game in this genre you're thinking of that has nice scaling difficulty.  There's nothing in this game as unbalanced and unfair as a lightning enchanted guy in Diablo 2.  I don't know, there just aren't that many action rpgs -- in my opinion the best one until now was Diablo 2, and this game is better than it in pretty much all the fundamental ways -- level design, class design, enemy design, pacing, basic mechanics.  It's the added and removed features that people can reasonably disagree about (offline play, the auction house.)  

I can see why people would be angry at Blizzard or dislike Diablo 3, but I don't think saying this is the best game in its genre ever made should be particularly controversial.  


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 11, 2012, 12:06:17 PM

 There's nothing in this game as unbalanced and unfair as a lightning enchanted guy in Diablo 2.  


Wut ?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on June 11, 2012, 12:09:33 PM
I don't know if I agree with that completely but LE guys on higher difficulties in D2 were pretty awful.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on June 11, 2012, 12:18:12 PM
The first time I ran across it in D3 I grimaced, thinking I was going to die. They really toned it down.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 11, 2012, 12:18:53 PM


Psycho.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 11, 2012, 12:23:14 PM

 There's nothing in this game as unbalanced and unfair as a lightning enchanted guy in Diablo 2.  


Wut ?

Maybe not LE, but MSLE = dead as shit, every bit as bad as anything in D3.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on June 11, 2012, 12:35:09 PM
LE wasn't really a problem on my sorc.  There's fairly wide spots where the bolts don't path through.  I can see it being instantly lethal on melee though.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 11, 2012, 01:00:04 PM
As I remember it, LE was fairly lethal, mostly due to the fact that you couldn't see the bolts.

But at least they weren't vampiric, jailer, walling, arcane, LE's.  I mean, seriously ?  Why are we even arguing the toss on this one ?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on June 11, 2012, 01:19:51 PM
I know for a fact that if this game wasn't by Blizzard, everyone would be talking about how some upstart game company managed to make the best action rpg of all time.  Look how much praise Torchlight got, and that game (while pretty good) is not even in the same class in pretty much any department!  I agree with many of the criticisms in this thread, but if anything, I think people are attacking the game more than it deserves because their expectations from Blizzard are sky-high.

I wouldn't consider myself a big fan of Diablo 3, but I still agree with this. We'd be able to more easily overlook flaws in the game if our expectations had been lower.

You can't overlook that it's made by Blizzard though. Server stability, balance, itemization, barebones campaign: they should have known better.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lantyssa on June 11, 2012, 01:31:28 PM
If you were finding sets and uniques in D2 without MF then you were the luckiest man alive. Drop rate was MUCH lower in D2 because you could stack MF to ridiculous levels, far higher than D3. Without MF even the Lord of Shopping Trolleys dropped crap.
I found tons of both without any purposeful stacking of Magic Find, including a SoJ.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Typhon on June 11, 2012, 03:54:15 PM
I agree, I found many legendaries and set pieces without ever stacking MF.  I have found two legendaries in D3, one of which was usable, for 235 hours played across 5 chars.

That said, the game is fun, 235 hours played says I got my monies worth.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: MuffinMan on June 11, 2012, 04:01:26 PM
235 hours played
:ye_gods:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on June 11, 2012, 04:02:21 PM
I know for a fact that if this game wasn't by Blizzard, everyone would be talking about how some upstart game company managed to make the best action rpg of all time.

Really ?  Really ??

(and, no, Phred, not offended.  Don't use magic find, but didnt in D2 either, so...)

Ya but it actually works in D3. It sucked ass in D2.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 11, 2012, 10:09:41 PM
2nd night in a row I've quit due to 1500+ms lag made the game unplayable.

Good job, Blizzard.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on June 11, 2012, 10:44:42 PM
Yeah, I got booted from a game after a horrible lag death.  Glad I wasn't playing my HC barb.   :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: rk47 on June 11, 2012, 10:55:35 PM
As I remember it, LE was fairly lethal, mostly due to the fact that you couldn't see the bolts.

But at least they weren't vampiric, jailer, walling, arcane, LE's.  I mean, seriously ?  Why are we even arguing the toss on this one ?

Most likely just not cynical enough for this place. I'm feeling vindicated now when most of my friends gave up playing 'for fun' :X while I've yet to buy it.
Rerun of Hellgate scenario all over again.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on June 12, 2012, 03:06:15 AM
I know for a fact that if this game wasn't by Blizzard, everyone would be talking about how some upstart game company managed to make the best action rpg of all time.

Really ?  Really ??

(and, no, Phred, not offended.  Don't use magic find, but didnt in D2 either, so...)

If you were finding sets and uniques in D2 without MF then you were the luckiest man alive. Drop rate was MUCH lower in D2 because you could stack MF to ridiculous levels, far higher than D3. Without MF even the Lord of Shopping Trolleys dropped crap.

I pulled in sets and uniques in D2. Then again, I was younger and played the hell out of it with characters into the 80s and one into the 90s, both local and server-side. I did some trading for uniques but a lot of the time it was just that moment of "omg it dropped" that made my night. My Bowazon was just lucky I guess. I'll admit in D1 it wasn't that easy to ignore duping etc of gear, D2 on US West was different as it was Pokemon time.

In 60 hours of game time, I've had 3 legendaries drop including level 16 boots. Not high level stuff, but no MF on my gear either.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Job601 on June 12, 2012, 04:56:19 AM
As I remember it, LE was fairly lethal, mostly due to the fact that you couldn't see the bolts.

But at least they weren't vampiric, jailer, walling, arcane, LE's.  I mean, seriously ?  Why are we even arguing the toss on this one ?

With Arcane Enchanted you get a big purple ball to tell you to run away.  With Jailer you get a column on yourself so you can see that you can't move.  Walling makes a big wall.  With MSLE's, you would run up to a relatively normal looking guy, whack him once, and die instantly, unless you happened to notice the tiny letters at the top of the screen.  It's not necessarily a bad thing when mobs are difficult -- I guarantee you if none of the mods were dangerous people would complain even more about that -- but it's a bad thing when they're unfair.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Murgos on June 12, 2012, 05:06:25 AM
Rerun of Hellgate scenario all over again.

Not even close.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: JRave on June 12, 2012, 05:44:50 AM
As I remember it, LE was fairly lethal, mostly due to the fact that you couldn't see the bolts.

But at least they weren't vampiric, jailer, walling, arcane, LE's.  I mean, seriously ?  Why are we even arguing the toss on this one ?

With Arcane Enchanted you get a big purple ball to tell you to run away.  With Jailer you get a column on yourself so you can see that you can't move.  Walling makes a big wall.  With MSLE's, you would run up to a relatively normal looking guy, whack him once, and die instantly, unless you happened to notice the tiny letters at the top of the screen.  It's not necessarily a bad thing when mobs are difficult -- I guarantee you if none of the mods were dangerous people would complain even more about that -- but it's a bad thing when they're unfair.

You ran up to the mob, you had the chance to mouse over before dieing that way, and there were certain "unique" named mobs that always had that combo or a high chance of it.  I'm thinking the council guy on the Floor with Meph, but I know there were more that either had MS or LE with a chance of the other.

I'll give you one setup that normally makes me switch areas when doing Siegebreaker runs in Inferno.  Jailer, Vampiric, + any other 2 mods you might want on Soul Lashers. (The tongue guys)  If they don't instantly kill you before you even see them on screen, you'll die before the jail wears off.

Oh how about LE + Knockback.  All those little sparks on the ground can juggle you around a room with that combo if you get unlucky.  Adding Vamp to it means while you are being juggled through their sparks they are also healing up from that damage.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 12, 2012, 06:38:35 AM
I emphatically do think this.  There's no game in the genre that has as many different interesting skills that can be combined in so many interesting ways, which different kinds of builds being viable at different player power levels and for different kinds of enemies.

Uh........ *Cough* (http://www.pathofexile.com/skills/)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Murgos on June 12, 2012, 07:56:49 AM
You do realize you're linking to an unreleased game right?  You can't say someone else does something when they don't actually do it yet.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 12, 2012, 07:58:48 AM
Semantics? (https://www.pathofexile.com/purchase/)



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ice Cream Emperor on June 12, 2012, 08:52:58 AM

You think the skills and the range of same beat others in the genre ?

I emphatically do think this.  There's no game in the genre that has as many different interesting skills that can be combined in so many interesting ways, which different kinds of builds being viable at different player power levels and for different kinds of enemies.

My god this is just insane. Have you played Titan Quest? Or, like, Diablo 2?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 12, 2012, 08:55:56 AM
Titan Quest had too many skills. The problem with that setup is that so much of it was filler crap.

I think many of you guys overestimate how much the average player enjoys the "Build" concept of an ARPG like this. I believe Diablo has done a good job balancing the accessibility of the "build" by runes and such without weighing it down with stats, percentages, and overall spreadsheeting. I think a small percentage of players enjoy that crap, and the rest of them go to sites to bottom line their findings.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 12, 2012, 09:10:47 AM
Titan Quest had too many skills. The problem with that setup is that so much of it was filler crap.

I agree entirely.  That's why I made the comparison.  There are skills on my Main barb that I simply won't touch again unless Blizzard changes it in some way;  They're not worth putting on your 6 hotkeys.

And since you only have 6 hotkeys, it makes the rest of it a fucking waste of time.  At least in Diablo II, if I had a skill I MIGHT use, I could put it on a high hotkey and swap it out when I needed it.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 12, 2012, 09:14:31 AM
Well I think we can agree the Barb needs the most work out of all the classes. There's simply not much there in terms of the way to play it. You have a couple viable options for skills and the rest is just gearing. That's completely different than the other classes and the way they play.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 12, 2012, 09:15:29 AM
If you say so.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on June 12, 2012, 09:19:06 AM
There are some very useless skills in the Barbie set. And then there are some REQUIRED skills in the set. IMHO that is.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ice Cream Emperor on June 12, 2012, 09:38:09 AM

It's really surprising to me that anyone who has played D3, D2 and Titan Quest could think that D3 has the largest number of viable, interesting builds. Especially in terms of actual playstyle -- I feel like there is only really one playstyle, with a melee- and ranged-character version. It's possible that once everyone is geared to the absolute teeth, the variety will increase somewhat, and more skills and rune combinations will become viable, but given the overwhelming primacy of certain stats and the whitewashing of gear in terms of unique-affixes, I just don't see it ever really getting to the same point as the earlier games.

The importance of the shift from skill levels to weapon-dps-is-the-only-way-to-kill-things is remarkable. There is almost nothing you can do to make a preferred skill- or rune-combo more effective than average -- the gear goals for every class are borderline-identical across all builds, and with a few seemingly niche cases involving critical hit triggers, all you can do is buy a bigger DPS weapon. No focus on damage types, no crazy defensive modifier stacking, no lockdown or cc-based gear builds, no breakpoints after which a skill suddenly becomes effective, no interesting gear-to-skill synergy, in fact no unexpected synergy to speak of because there is nothing to synergize with -- the whole system is made up entirely of obvious surfaces. There just aren't enough moving parts.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: statisticalfool on June 12, 2012, 10:23:39 AM
^^ That, so much. They got really scared of anything other than DPS in, DPS out. So all of the actually interesting affixes will never show up more than one slot, and in such small percentages.

I mean, this on top of that most classes have 2-3 mandatory to almost mandatory skills out of 6.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on June 12, 2012, 11:02:18 AM

It's really surprising to me that anyone who has played D3, D2 and Titan Quest could think that D3 has the largest number of viable, interesting builds.


Considering that the bolded part of your statement is entirely subjective, I'm surprised you're surprised.  :grin: Viability is an issue for a number of skills, but it is pretty difficult to predict what other people will find fun or interesting with any kind of accuracy.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Slayerik on June 12, 2012, 11:18:06 AM
My friend and I are both HC Witch Doctors and he has a completely different build and playstyle from me (besides spirit walk and spirit vessel). He uses mad CC and poison darts for damage. I run a vision quest build with little CC (besides Gargantuan and Wall of Zombies) but crazy sustained AoE DPS. With my VQ build I could use a number of different damage spells (I use Dire bats but there are probably 2-3 other ones that are viable), CC abilities (Wall of Zombies could be replaced by Hex, Grasp, Zombie Dogs, etc). My initial build was nothing like either of these, using darts and locust swarm and stuff. He's in Inferno HC and I'm in Hell HC, so I'd say that's a pretty good display of viability.

I've never looked at the forums for builds, but I'm going to guess there are a couple more viable endgame builds for the WD. That's pretty good, right?





Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on June 12, 2012, 11:19:46 AM
The forums are a cesspit as usual, they think there are only 2ish "viable" builds for WD last I looked.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ice Cream Emperor on June 12, 2012, 11:38:43 AM

In my brief experience I actually feel like the WD is far and away the most variable class in terms of playstyle and build. I am looking forward to levelling my WD for that reason -- and also because its the only class whose personality is actually remotely palatable, racism aside. Sad to say, the same thing is not true of any of the other classes. The Demon Hunter is probably the most uniform, playstyle-wise, but it's a pretty close race with the Barbarian, Monk, and Wizard.

Random example: my roomate did his best to formulate a tanking wizard spec, only to find out that there is a totally invisible 30% damage reduction given to Monks/Barbarians that makes it impossible (or, you know, 30% harder) for other classes to actually tank, even if you are imaginative enough to gear and rune-spec appropriately.

Also the idea that each class having a unique resource to manage makes the game more varied is precisely the sort of bizarro-world thinking that has me scratching my head. What this means is that there is absolutely zero chance of the unexpected cross-class synergies that would arise out of generic 'mana'-related bonuses/penalties/affixes/gear. Ghetto-izing each class' mechanics does not add depth to a game's systems.





Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 12, 2012, 04:00:46 PM



Random example: my roomate did his best to formulate a tanking wizard spec, only to find out that there is a totally invisible 30% damage reduction given to Monks/Barbarians that makes it impossible (or, you know, 30% harder) for other classes to actually tank, even if you are imaginative enough to gear and rune-spec appropriately.



In beta there was a long time when damage across the board was a lot lower, and people complained non stop that the game was trivially easy.  In response to this (and probably to internal testing - I hope) they increased damage across the board in one of the patches, and added a passive damage reduction to monks and barbarians because with the increased damage they were getting crushed the same way the ranged classes to now when trying to tank.  So, they added the passive bonus so melee characters could survive AND it wasn't trivially easy for ranged characters.  Maybe they could have come up with a more elegant solution though.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Trippy on June 12, 2012, 04:44:52 PM
Random example: my roomate did his best to formulate a tanking wizard spec, only to find out that there is a totally invisible 30% damage reduction given to Monks/Barbarians that makes it impossible (or, you know, 30% harder) for other classes to actually tank, even if you are imaginative enough to gear and rune-spec appropriately.
That's one of the tips on the loading screens :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on June 12, 2012, 04:48:03 PM
I'm also pretty sure that by the time you get to Inferno the resists you get from stacking intelligence because it is your main stat probably beat out that 30% (or come close).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 12, 2012, 05:13:35 PM



Random example: my roomate did his best to formulate a tanking wizard spec, only to find out that there is a totally invisible 30% damage reduction given to Monks/Barbarians that makes it impossible (or, you know, 30% harder) for other classes to actually tank, even if you are imaginative enough to gear and rune-spec appropriately.



In beta there was a long time when damage across the board was a lot lower, and people complained non stop that the game was trivially easy.  In response to this (and probably to internal testing - I hope) they increased damage across the board in one of the patches, and added a passive damage reduction to monks and barbarians because with the increased damage they were getting crushed the same way the ranged classes to now when trying to tank.  So, they added the passive bonus so melee characters could survive AND it wasn't trivially easy for ranged characters.  Maybe they could have come up with a more elegant solution though.

Or maybe, just maybe, they could have listened to the section of beta saying "No, assholes, this is NORMAL MODE act 1 and you've outleveled the Skeleton King almost 2x if you're at cap. It's GOING TO BE EASY."

But that would have taken understanding of your own damn game on the devs part and Blizzard hasn't been good at that in 5 years.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Llyse on June 12, 2012, 05:28:16 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed with all the niggling issues Diablo3 has had considering how stable WoW has been for the last few years.

Forcing me to manually update config files because of language patching regions, the terrible patching loop when servers are down instead of just saying no to logins is just piss poor.

I won't be spending any money on Blizzard products for a while after this. (Good thing the expansion isn't due till 2013  :why_so_serious:)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Threash on June 12, 2012, 07:15:33 PM
Lag has made the game unplayable since this afternoon.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lightstalker on June 12, 2012, 07:20:22 PM
I lost two low level HC barbs last night due to lag; better than losing characters I'd invested into though. 

Why I have lag in my single player game...  :grin:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Shatter on June 12, 2012, 08:22:24 PM
They put a cap on the number of games you can create, they said that would help stability, etc.  I had no issues tonight


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: KallDrexx on June 12, 2012, 09:09:54 PM
cap on the number of games you can create?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ragnoros on June 12, 2012, 09:37:05 PM
cap on the number of games you can create?

Per X amount of time.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5795159597


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on June 12, 2012, 09:39:30 PM
It's actually worse than that.  It's a cap on how many times you can change quests.  Now I appear to be locked out, just because I want to farm mats for the staff of herding.

 :mob:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 12, 2012, 09:41:09 PM
Oh that stinks. Some of those things take a lot of effort.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on June 12, 2012, 09:41:37 PM
It's actually worse than that.  It's a cap on how many times you can change quests.  Now I appear to be locked out, just because I want to farm mats for the staff of herding.

 :mob:

Blizzard nerfing farming in a game designed around farming. Go figure...


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: rk47 on June 12, 2012, 09:49:26 PM
cap on the number of games you can create?

If you want more, pay more?  :why_so_serious: Shit just makes no sense.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ice Cream Emperor on June 12, 2012, 10:11:28 PM

Pretty sure it's in response to some truly hilarious power-levelling schemes -- apparently you can just fractally repeat quests via joining/leaving games, because of how the checkpoint system interacts with multiplayer.

Like basically you can kill Belial once and then claim the (two) quest rewards for doing so an infinite number of times, provided you and your group of friends are sufficiently large/organized.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on June 13, 2012, 12:22:10 AM

In 60 hours of game time, I've had 3 legendaries drop including level 16 boots. Not high level stuff, but no MF on my gear either.

One thing that occured to me today is if you are playing with other people MF is shared so you may have more than you know.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 13, 2012, 02:36:43 AM
It's actually worse than that.  It's a cap on how many times you can change quests.  Now I appear to be locked out, just because I want to farm mats for the staff of herding.

 :mob:

Can't stop giggling.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on June 13, 2012, 02:53:15 AM
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9902/bashiok.png)

Blizzard....can they get ANYTHING right?  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Der Helm on June 13, 2012, 04:40:03 AM
When did they turned of loot for barrels and other stuff ?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: apocrypha on June 13, 2012, 04:51:40 AM
When did they turned of loot for barrels and other stuff ?

Few days ago I think, in response to people & botters farming the jars of ashes in the Skeleton King crypt for hours/days on end.

Sensible solution would have been to reduce the number of jars in that one area, but no, the Blizzard solution is to reduce all jar & barrel loot by >90%.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 13, 2012, 05:26:18 AM
I thought the patch notes said they only reduced it for the 'safe' places like before SK.   Wouldn't surprise me if that was the intent and instead they nerfed it everywhere.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on June 13, 2012, 05:50:42 AM
US servers down for "scheduled maintenance" once again, despite the fact they were offline for 6 hours in Aussie prime time last night for the exact same thing.

For fuck's sake, release Torchlight 2 so I can play a decent Diablo SP game offline :(


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on June 13, 2012, 05:59:25 AM
If you want Torchlight 2, lol@you because it looks like they've sort of confirmed another 2-3 month delay via twitter.

I have no idea what the fuck those guys are up to.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 13, 2012, 06:05:19 AM
When did they turned of loot for barrels and other stuff ?

Few days ago I think, in response to people & botters farming the jars of ashes in the Skeleton King crypt for hours/days on end.

Sensible solution would have been to reduce the number of jars in that one area, but no, the Blizzard solution is to reduce all jar & barrel loot by >90%.

I was in the end of Act III just after the nerf - you know where there's all those monsters and blue packs and so on - and that sounds about right for how often I found something in a non-chest container. It seems they nerfed more than just Act I and Act IV vases and jars.

Nerfing vases was a silly response. Why didn't they put more mobs into the safe places instead?

Does anyone bother checking containers now?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 13, 2012, 06:11:21 AM
If you want Torchlight 2, lol@you because it looks like they've sort of confirmed another 2-3 month delay via twitter.

I have no idea what the fuck those guys are up to.

I can't find anything like that on twitter. What did you see?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on June 13, 2012, 06:14:42 AM
US servers down for "scheduled maintenance" once again, despite the fact they were offline for 6 hours in Aussie prime time last night for the exact same thing.

For fuck's sake, release Torchlight 2 so I can play a decent Diablo SP game offline :(


Try Krater.  :drill:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on June 13, 2012, 06:18:03 AM
You sorta have to follow this conversation they have with someone.

Runic:
@rook0x51 I guess from our internal perspective it doesn't feel like a delay but just like work ;) and we <3 you too. Happy to add my info

@Nechronox @rook0x51 But otherwise it's content complete. Remember the ?'s in the skill tree in the beta? We're filling those in ;)

@Nechronox @rook0x51 It will be with the little wait while everyone plays D3!! ;)

The guy they're talking to:

@RunicGames I was just pointing out that it's quite easy to see how someone would consider another 3 month delay "crazy". But I still <3 you

@RunicGames @Nechronox Don't get me wrong, I'm super excited for TL2, but questioning why the 3 month delay is crazy seems a tad ignorant.

@RunicGames @Nechronox (3) because Max said that they were releasing the game roughly a month after Diablo 3.

@RunicGames @Nechronox ... really? I can think of a couple.. (2) because wonder told us that the beta was essentially the release candidate

@RunicGames @Nechronox ... really? I can think of some reasons... (1) because your original release date was last year.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 13, 2012, 06:53:51 AM
Thanks. End of summer target date now, according to this IGN article.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/07/e3-2012-torchlight-ii-getting-closer-to-launch (http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/07/e3-2012-torchlight-ii-getting-closer-to-launch)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on June 13, 2012, 06:59:23 AM
You know how Blizzard used to delay the launch of their games until they were ready instead of bringing them out and doing half-assed balancing?

Can't fault Runic Games if they do that, especially now that we see in Diablo 3 what happens if you don't.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 13, 2012, 07:21:37 AM
It's also a good idea if you're making a diablo clone and everyone is still busy playing the original.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 13, 2012, 07:26:36 AM
Well, that sorta depends on whether it's any good.  I, for one, would kill for another Diablo Clone right now merely to get my attention focused off this POS.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on June 13, 2012, 07:43:49 AM
It's also a good idea if you're making a diablo clone and everyone is still busy playing the original.

Wait, you can play now? Though maintenance was still going on...  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lantyssa on June 13, 2012, 07:53:47 AM
Well, that sorta depends on whether it's any good.  I, for one, would kill for another Diablo Clone right now merely to get my attention focused off this POS.
They don't want to be the next PoS.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 13, 2012, 07:55:35 AM
They nerfed all barrels into the ground. It's hilariously stupid since there was only one real area that was causing the problem. So instead of nerfing "Ash Containers" they nerfed everything. The only thing I've found in barrels in Act 1 Inferno has been skeletons that were hiding. And even those fucking skeletons drop nothing!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on June 13, 2012, 07:58:17 AM
I put my money on "Ash containers probably can't be distinguished from other containers lootwise, so there is no easy way to nerf just their drop rate ".


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Xanthippe on June 13, 2012, 08:00:14 AM
It's as though the people making this game put no time into considering potential exploitative behavior by players.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: taolurker on June 13, 2012, 08:02:36 AM
Well, that sorta depends on whether it's any good.  I, for one, would kill for another Diablo Clone right now merely to get my attention focused off this POS.

Before BW comes in and says "Path of Exile" again, I'll do it for him. Definitely a Diablo clone, and the only reason I'm not playing ATM is because I want "release" characters who get to keep their stuff.

I was in the beta of Diablo 3, and almost asked about the "trial" keys people likely have, but don't really want any part of the current Blizzard online issues for a limited demo of a game I wouldn't buy. I would be someone's mule, speculating for profit though, if someone wanted to split Paypal proceeds and buy me a copy. LOL

The forum lurking about this game is immensely fun.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on June 13, 2012, 08:03:46 AM
Quote
It's as though the people making this game put no time into considering potential exploitative behavior by players.

In fairness, who could have expected that would be an issue in a game with real life money attached to the loot (sometime in the future).  :evil:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 13, 2012, 08:11:27 AM
Well, that sorta depends on whether it's any good.  I, for one, would kill for another Diablo Clone right now merely to get my attention focused off this POS.

Before BW comes in and says "Path of Exile" again, I'll do it for him. Definitely a Diablo clone, and the only reason I'm not playing ATM is because I want "release" characters who get to keep their stuff.

I was in the beta of Diablo 3, and almost asked about the "trial" keys people likely have, but don't really want any part of the current Blizzard online issues for a limited demo of a game I wouldn't buy. I would be someone's mule, speculating for profit though, if someone wanted to split Paypal proceeds and buy me a copy. LOL

The forum lurking about this game is immensely fun.

In fairness, one of the wifes mates was pushing Path of Exile the other day.  I suspect I'll give it a go, but as usual with beta's and whatnot, I'll probably need a weekend or two just to download the client.

Also, it was the wifes trail key that got me into Diablo III because that first bit up to level 12 was actually fun.  It stopped in fairly swift order thereafter.  But I'm rehashing old tired ground by now.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lightstalker on June 13, 2012, 08:29:10 AM
They nerfed all barrels into the ground. It's hilariously stupid since there was only one real area that was causing the problem. So instead of nerfing "Ash Containers" they nerfed everything. The only thing I've found in barrels in Act 1 Inferno has been skeletons that were hiding. And even those fucking skeletons drop nothing!

The Ashes in that room still drop phat loots in Hell mode and below.   :why_so_serious:



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on June 13, 2012, 08:49:01 AM
Seems like Blizzard is walking a fine line between having enough items being sold on the AH so they get their tidy 15% + $1 fee, and preventing people from farming items TOO easily and flooding the market which lowers the price of everything.

I don't know what the hell is going on with the game, but I do know I'm unloading all my gear on the AH to get out from under this mess. Already made 23 bucks off one ring.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on June 13, 2012, 10:58:35 AM
If you want Torchlight 2, lol@you because it looks like they've sort of confirmed another 2-3 month delay via twitter.

I have no idea what the fuck those guys are up to.

Aren't they the ex-D2 developers who took 5 years to release a game using the same graphic engine as D1? And mostly the same mob models?



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Trippy on June 13, 2012, 01:58:40 PM
If you want Torchlight 2, lol@you because it looks like they've sort of confirmed another 2-3 month delay via twitter.

I have no idea what the fuck those guys are up to.
Aren't they the ex-D2 developers who took 5 years to release a game using the same graphic engine as D1? And mostly the same mob models?
Yes, no, no, not sure.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hawkbit on June 13, 2012, 02:15:53 PM
Well, that sorta depends on whether it's any good.  I, for one, would kill for another Diablo Clone right now merely to get my attention focused off this POS.


I came here to say exactly this.  However, it has already been said.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on June 13, 2012, 06:11:01 PM
If you want Torchlight 2, lol@you because it looks like they've sort of confirmed another 2-3 month delay via twitter.

I have no idea what the fuck those guys are up to.
Aren't they the ex-D2 developers who took 5 years to release a game using the same graphic engine as D1? And mostly the same mob models?
Yes, no, no, not sure.


Dec 31/96 -> June 29/2000 is pretty close to 5 years. And it must have taken a lot of work to get that 640x480 res upgraded to, what was diablo 2's res again?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hawkbit on June 13, 2012, 06:31:01 PM
What?  Torchlight was founded out of the Hellgate/Mythos debacle.  Torchlight 1 had something like 18months total dev time.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Merusk on June 13, 2012, 06:51:53 PM
He's bagging on D2, not Torchlight.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hawkbit on June 13, 2012, 08:00:42 PM
Apologies.  I'm in the middle of writing a program that outputs factors from a range of input values.  My brain is fried whenever I look at numbers right now. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on June 13, 2012, 09:11:58 PM
Ya I have a lot of respect for the torchlite devs actually. I'm pretty sure it was studio problems that accounted for the disappointing initial release of D2, not the dev team all being members of a raiding guild on the Nameless server in EQ. :)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on June 14, 2012, 01:00:55 AM
I enjoyed Torchlight 1 and the Beta of T2. So I'm hoping release will be great.

I had a chuckle at some of the Krater advertising blurb:

Quote
No mandatory connection to an online service: For those who rather stay clear of online gaming and enjoy playing through the campaign in offline mode there is a fully supported single player offline mode.

I wonder who that was aimed at (and also if it's a decent game)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on June 14, 2012, 10:37:01 AM
I wonder who that was aimed at (and also if it's a decent game)

You should buy it and tell us in the Krater thread!  :-)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Threash on June 14, 2012, 05:59:35 PM
Another night that it is too laggy to play. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on June 14, 2012, 06:25:41 PM
Enlightened Shrines... in Inferno.  :uhrr:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: ezrast on June 14, 2012, 06:29:38 PM
Half gripe, half protip, filed under "completely opaque mechanics": each and every skill, including runed versions, seems to return a completely arbitrary amount of life based on the "life on hit" stat (for example: the Witch Doctor blowdart that hits three times actually returns less life than most of the ones that only hit once; see WD thread for more info). The only way to figure out what these are is to experiment with every single skill and see how much you get. I imagine there are plenty of people that tried stacking life on hit to survive Inferno and determined the stat was worthless, only because they happened to be using skills that didn't benefit much from it at the time.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Murgos on June 15, 2012, 06:13:34 AM
If you google around a bit you can find charts that say how much of the full amount of life on hit are returned by each skill.

It's not completely opaque, mostly it seems to just mitigate Area Effect abilities from just going completely over the top with the amount of life returned.  You can expect that a single target ability returns 100% of the Life on Hit amount and that for the more targets hit the total Life on Hit per hit reduces.  You still get more life for hitting more targets, it's just not as same as n*LoH.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: calapine on June 16, 2012, 06:06:56 AM
Well, Blizzard shouldn't have angered our resident Germans!  :why_so_serious:

Now the Verbraucherzentrale Bundesverband (vzbv) issued a two part reprimand to re: Diablo


A) Labeling isn't clear enough. The German box only reads "Battle.net registration required" and "internet connection required". According to the Vzbv this is inadequate to inform consumers that Diablo is Online-only play, rather than a one-time online registration for example.  Vzbv considers this a Wettbewerbsverstoß (‘violation of competition rule’) and requested Blizzard to submit an Unterlassungserklärung (‘declaration to cease and desist’) until July 13th.

B) Connecton issues. Vzbz notes that gamers had no access to the game for a long period. From 15.5.12 to beginning of June they received numerous complains about being unable to play,  most often centered on “Error 37”.
Vzbz argues that if a game producer demands online play they are required to supply the necessary technical infrastructure - including sufficient server capacities.

Link (german) (http://www.surfer-haben-rechte.de/cps/rde/xchg/digitalrechte/hs.xsl/75_2080.htm)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tannhauser on June 16, 2012, 06:47:25 AM
And everyone knows what happens when you get the Germans angry.


There's a uniquely German word for the pleasure I'm feeling at Blizzard's misfortune by demanding online play.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hutch on June 16, 2012, 08:09:33 AM
Gotterdammerung?  :grin:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Zetor on June 16, 2012, 08:19:25 AM
Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänskajütentürsicherheitsschlüssel, obviously.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on June 16, 2012, 03:43:14 PM
Hey, still better then when we overcook your bratwurst (yeah I'm talking about penises)

Game sales are handled like any other retail sale in German law, so any limitations on use and anything concerning resale (first sale doctrine is applicable) has to be advertised clearly.

Blizzard also doesn't adhere to the refund and return policy of the EU.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lightstalker on June 24, 2012, 01:39:55 PM
I miss stat allocation.

Like the intentional gimpy MoM playthroughs (Lizardmen, Myrran start, 1 life book), you can't play through normal without allocating any of your stat points anymore.  You can't find yourself in a situation where a cool item drops and you have to wait a few levels to get the stats in the right levels to equip it.  There is no trade off for primary stat vs. putting on heavier armor, that high Dex DPS weapon, etc.  This was an unnecessary simplification, probably just to avoid putting in a respec feature and 'simplify' the loot experience.

I also think the AH has rescaled expectations for loot.  Previously we'd only compare our drops against other drops of ours.  Now we can compare our drops against millions of other player's drops.  That's a loser proposition for the set of 'our drops' and we find ourselves never getting anything useful to drop.  We always know we can find better, so we're dissappointed.  The Hardcore AH and experience is much better in this regard as items cycle out of the world and cash hasn't inflated nearly as much.  My HC characters have purchased set items (full sets) and uniques off the AH and routinely wear 100% rare, but drops in the world are still exciting either for myself or for the AH because the sample set my find rate is competing against isn't as vast.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on June 25, 2012, 02:22:37 AM
I don't think the AH is the only factor. the fact that 99% of loot that you pick up is useless for most if not all of your toons doesn't help.

As I said on one of my posts - killing bosses for gear that is so low in ilvl that you couldn't down that boss in it is a pretty shitty mechanic.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 25, 2012, 04:22:15 AM

I also think the AH has rescaled expectations for loot.  Previously we'd only compare our drops against other drops of ours.  Now we can compare our drops against millions of other player's drops. 

This has got to be the reason I like D3 and so many around here don't.  I was involved heavily in the player economy in Diablo 2 and all Diablo 3 did is make it so I don't have to sit in trade chat for 2 hours to find a good deal on an item. 


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 25, 2012, 04:28:03 AM
Well, that's good.  I'm glad Blizzard monetized you and fucked over the rest of the chaps that were actually interested in playing.

I'm sure that's going to be a winning strategy for them.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 25, 2012, 04:30:15 AM
Well, that's good.  I'm glad Blizzard monetized you and fucked over the rest of the chaps that were actually interested in playing.

I'm sure that's going to be a winning strategy for them.


I'm not talking about the RM economy, I'm simply talking about trading.  I had no interest in RM trading in D2, and I don't in D3 either.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on June 25, 2012, 04:51:18 AM
You may be missing the point here.

You are playng a tradesim, for you the game is fine.

Others want to play the game, not the auction house. They are fucked.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 25, 2012, 05:10:24 AM
Quite.

It's really just not a good game, by any yardstick.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 25, 2012, 10:58:09 AM
Sigh.  Whatever.  I'm having plenty of fun clearing inferno with my friend.  We get on skype, shoot the shit, clear stuff and have a great time.  You say I don't actually like playing the game, just the economy.  But that is bullshit.  I enjoy playing the game for the game's sake, and the economy stuff is a fun/engaging layer on top.  THAT is the problem. In my opinion it is you guys who don't actually enjoy playing the game because the second you stop getting good drops you stop having fun, meanwhile I'm having a great time just playing regardless so I don't feel like it is pointless when my luck on drops goes bad.


But whatever, I guess the game is shit, there is no way I should be having any fun.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 25, 2012, 11:01:45 AM
My guess is you're playing a Wizard or DH.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 25, 2012, 11:10:58 AM
My guess is you're playing a Wizard or DH.

DH and Monk (DH in Act 2 inferno, Monk will finish Act 1 inferno tonight).  I'm enjoying the Monk a bit more, but I like them both.  The friend I've been playing with is Barbarian, if that matters.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Job601 on June 25, 2012, 11:39:29 AM
Quite.

It's really just not a good game, by any yardstick.


Your anger about this game has made you lose touch with reality.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 25, 2012, 11:46:13 AM
I'm not angry.  I'm dissapointed.

(Hooray, when Forums and Parenting quotes collide !)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on June 25, 2012, 11:51:04 AM
I'm not angry.  I'm dissapointed.

(Hooray, when Forums and Parenting quotes collide !)


Welcome to my world.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Slayerik on June 25, 2012, 12:20:28 PM
So far everyone in my house still plays. Each of the kids and my fiancee are killing diablo for the first time. When they have problems, I spend 5 minutes with them in the AH and they are ready for Nightmare after that :)

I am personally still very hooked on the game. Only time I question the fun is when I read forums...


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Thrawn on June 25, 2012, 12:24:24 PM
Only time I question the fun is when I read forums...

Sound like an easy fix.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 25, 2012, 12:30:17 PM
So far everyone in my house still plays. Each of the kids and my fiancee are killing diablo for the first time. When they have problems, I spend 5 minutes with them in the AH and they are ready for Nightmare after that :)

I am personally still very hooked on the game. Only time I question the fun is when I read forums...

If you're having fun, you're having fun.

Don't let any other motherfuckers get you down.

Unless you're killing whores IRL.  Then it's kinda wrong.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Llyse on June 25, 2012, 06:01:25 PM
I miss stat allocation.

Like the intentional gimpy MoM playthroughs (Lizardmen, Myrran start, 1 life book), you can't play through normal without allocating any of your stat points anymore.  You can't find yourself in a situation where a cool item drops and you have to wait a few levels to get the stats in the right levels to equip it.  There is no trade off for primary stat vs. putting on heavier armor, that high Dex DPS weapon, etc.  This was an unnecessary simplification, probably just to avoid putting in a respec feature and 'simplify' the loot experience.

I also think the AH has rescaled expectations for loot.  Previously we'd only compare our drops against other drops of ours.  Now we can compare our drops against millions of other player's drops.  That's a loser proposition for the set of 'our drops' and we find ourselves never getting anything useful to drop.  We always know we can find better, so we're dissappointed.  The Hardcore AH and experience is much better in this regard as items cycle out of the world and cash hasn't inflated nearly as much.  My HC characters have purchased set items (full sets) and uniques off the AH and routinely wear 100% rare, but drops in the world are still exciting either for myself or for the AH because the sample set my find rate is competing against isn't as vast.

I have to agree with all of this. It's kind of nut punching for new players who just pump stats into useless attributes but the anticipation of having stat points ready to pump strength for a new piece of armour was very satisfying. A free/reasonably cost paid respec somewhere would have solved this problem quite handily.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 25, 2012, 07:35:38 PM
I'd love to actually see a poll on skill points. My guess is that most people didn't like them, but I'd like to get some background.

EDIT: Personally, I hated the idea of allocating points. It added nothing for the non-min-max gamer, and forced them to look for information outside the game to be productive.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: KallDrexx on June 25, 2012, 07:40:20 PM
The skill system was definitely one of hte better parts of D3 for me.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Llyse on June 25, 2012, 08:15:43 PM
The skill system was definitely one of hte better parts of D3 for me.

I do like the skill system, but something seems missing with new items and armour... I mean, if you get rid of requirements on armour, why can't my monk use a two handed sword? Lore? It's kinda lame. Anyway for me the saving Strength stat points to wear new armour was similar to the feeling of identifying rares for some reason.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ice Cream Emperor on June 25, 2012, 08:37:30 PM

Part of the skill-point thing for me is just that you can go for long spans of levels without ever feeling like your character is becoming more powerful -- unless you are constantly using the AH to upgrade your gear. Skills no longer seem to bring real potency to the table -- they just bring more options to funnel your gear's stats through. And if gear is the only source of real growth in power/effectiveness/whatever, the fact that it is incredibly boring is suddenly a much more significant problem.

The fact that basically the same set of gear is good for all builds is a problem, or at least I feel like in conjunction with how the skill system works it is a problem. With the exception of the basic  (and enormous) ranged/melee split, there don't really seem to be any builds that are more or less gear-dependent. Certainly there are no builds that are gear-independent -- there's no running through Inferno with a gray weapon, or no gear except your weapon, or anything like you could see in Diablo 2 with a particular type of optimized, skill-point-based build.

Basically there's just way less variety in terms of optimal builds, viable builds, approaches to gear, and gear itself. The game is flatter when it comes to strategic options, even if tactically it probably has more things you can do than in D2. But it just turns out that all those different skills and runes and everything else are just kind of funneling your One True Gear-Stat into the content.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on June 25, 2012, 08:47:10 PM
I think that's because they made the decision to cap the levels, but left an entire section of content after that cap. If I was going to fault them on one major thing, it's that call. A lot of the complaints about itemization flow from that decision.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on June 26, 2012, 07:13:57 AM
Horde and invulnerable minions should be taken out of the rotation. More so when you add in molten. Holy shit I at least try elite groups twice before thinking about throwing in the towel... This shit last night just made me bypass without a thought after the first encounter.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Miasma on June 26, 2012, 07:40:58 AM
If the minions are horde they shouldn't get their own damn affixes.

Invulnerable minions are retarded and that whole affix should be removed.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 26, 2012, 11:42:07 AM
jesus fuck.

I was bound and determined to finish the game. Got to Diablo, called every plot point before I even installed the thing. Then get hit with a difficulty wall for the last boss? No indication before this. What a way to balance a game. The ramp between normal play, and Dibalo boss battle is seriously stupid. I'm waltzing through the 7 levels of hell like a hot knife on butter, then. Diablo, lord of the power-gamer.

I don't dislike myself enough to go though the game again to get yet another x4 power Diablo battle.  I can only imagine doing that battle on the hardest level is like trying to fight a hacker.

/end


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 26, 2012, 11:43:16 AM
Wait, what ?

You mean Normal Mode Diablo or is your post just worded strangely ?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 26, 2012, 11:44:47 AM
Yes, on normal difficulty. I was referring to the "non-boss/boss gameplay" before that finial boss.

I think I was punished for not using the AH.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Slayerik on June 26, 2012, 11:50:46 AM
Yes, on normal difficulty. I was referring to the "non-boss/boss gameplay" before that finial boss.

I think I was punished for not using the AH.

You kinda were. I watched my kids die to Diablo a few times, and I thought if it had been me playing it would have taken a long time and a lot of good dodging to have beat him. Then I went and spent 20k at the AH and watched my son melt him.

Diablo should be tough, though, right? IDK, some games take multiple tries to take down a boss. That's kinda par for the course.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 26, 2012, 11:55:46 AM
Yes, on normal difficulty. I was referring to the "non-boss/boss gameplay" before that finial boss.

I think I was punished for not using the AH.

You kinda were. I watched my kids die to Diablo a few times, and I thought if it had been me playing it would have taken a long time and a lot of good dodging to have beat him. Then I went and spent 20k at the AH and watched my son melt him.

Diablo should be tough, though, right? IDK, some games take multiple tries to take down a boss. That's kinda par for the course.

There are also a number of other factors like which build you were using.  For Diablo I've learned to take pretty much whatever stuns I can and it smooths the whole fight right out. Obviously if you are playing at level 60 you want to stay with one build because you are going to want the NV buff, but while leveling tailoring builds ot specific things is something I think a lot of folks don't do (and I didn't do my first time through really), but on subsequent leveling runs I switch skills all the time.

But yes, obviously using the AH is going to make things easier - but this is basically just twinking.  Leveling characters and beating bosses  has always been easier with better gear which you usually don't find on your own the first time through, this is hardly unique to Diablo or even an Auction House.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 26, 2012, 11:56:05 AM
I'm fine with tough.

This was imposable. I clearly was being punished for not using the AH. I just called in a friend, he whooped him in less than 5 minutes. Then I got to watch the horribly compressed end movie. Lots of smoke + Compression is bad, m'kay.

Malakili, I had zero issues with any other boss, in fact, they were laughable. It wasn't even like I had to figure anything out about him. Just poor out damage.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 26, 2012, 11:58:57 AM
I'm fine with tough.

This was imposable. I clearly was being punished for not using the AH. I just called in a friend, he whooped him in less than 5 minutes. Then I got to watch the horribly compressed end movie. Lots of smoke + Compression is bad, m'kay.

Which character class?  I didn't twink my wizard at all and he took about 5 tries on the big guy (had to make no mistakes and manage my cooldowns really closely) and this was the hardest for sure. Also, what build were you using on whichever character you were playing?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Miasma on June 26, 2012, 12:00:04 PM
If you are taking a moral stand against even the gold AH it is assumed that you are the type of person who likes farming for gear and tedious difficulty.

You are just unusual in that you don't want high difficulty but are also unwilling to use the "I win" button.  At least buy a weapon.  And be sure to avoid those thorn cages, you don't have to be stuck in them.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 26, 2012, 12:01:53 PM
I'm still confused.  I found the first Diablo fight utterly trivial, far too much so.

I suspect I probably gouged the AH then.  I barely remember.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 26, 2012, 12:05:01 PM
You are just unusual in that you don't want high difficulty

No, I want possibility. Not one, single boss fight before this gave me any indication it was going to be a problem.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 26, 2012, 12:10:02 PM
You are just unusual in that you don't want high difficulty

No, I want possibility. Not one, single boss fight before this gave me any indication it was going to be a problem.

Again, could you please tell us what class/build you were using?   Did you try changing builds after failing a couple of times?  *shrugs* It is just hard to believe "impossible" since literally no one else is saying it, that I can see.  I'm willing to believe you may have been going in with a really bad build and subpar gear, which put together might have made it very difficult.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Hutch on June 26, 2012, 12:11:44 PM
After failing a couple times is when he called in his buddy to administer the tactical strike.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on June 26, 2012, 12:46:26 PM
Again, could you please tell us what class/build you were using?   Did you try changing builds after failing a couple of times?  *shrugs* It is just hard to believe "impossible" since literally no one else is saying it, that I can see.  I'm willing to believe you may have been going in with a really bad build and subpar gear, which put together might have made it very difficult.

If he got shafted on weapon drops and didn't use the AH, I can very easily see the Diablo fight being close to if not impossible.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lightstalker on June 26, 2012, 12:57:22 PM
If you've played a ranged character with high DPS and low life Diablo can be pretty rude.  Diablo has a few combos and negates range pretty effectively, the first five times I got there on my Demon Hunter I had 1500 life and just couldn't make it through the Realm of Tear-ROR.  I went to the AH (downgraded my DPS for extra vitality), changed up some abilities, and melted him without much issue at all.  RNG ability choice also contributes, the fight can be very different each time you attempt it.  The Diablo fight is a strange amalgam of every previous Diablo fight plus MMO-Raid style stupid phase progression.

It literally is like nothing that has come before, and the rest of the game can lead you into a playstyle that gets you abused without lube.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: jakonovski on June 26, 2012, 12:58:34 PM
jesus fuck.

I was bound and determined to finish the game. Got to Diablo, called every plot point before I even installed the thing. Then get hit with a difficulty wall for the last boss? No indication before this. What a way to balance a game. The ramp between normal play, and Dibalo boss battle is seriously stupid. I'm waltzing through the 7 levels of hell like a hot knife on butter, then. Diablo, lord of the power-gamer.

I don't dislike myself enough to go though the game again to get yet another x4 power Diablo battle.  I can only imagine doing that battle on the hardest level is like trying to fight a hacker.

/end

At the end of normal my DH was not geared well enough to defeat Diablo. I AH'd and was basically immortal. This game has no difficulty, just gear checks.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on June 26, 2012, 01:14:39 PM
It literally is like nothing that has come before, and the rest of the game can lead you into a playstyle that gets you abused without lube.

You nailed it.

Nothing, NOTHING that comes before would have indicated my set up was wrong. Nothing. I was tearing through every bit of content before this fight. Yes, you guess right. I was using a Demon hunter with a high ( likely, OP due to my friend giving me a few +30 dex gems, plus my own + dex gems ) Dexterity and armor value. Partnered with a pet heavy witch doctor.

There was simply nothing, just like a Stephen king novel, that would have indicated the end battle. Its not that I had a moral objection to the AH, even if I do. It simply was never required.



Summary:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Miasma on June 26, 2012, 01:20:29 PM
I found Belial and Azmodan more difficult than Diablo my first normal mode playthrough.  I guess because I was melee so I had to run out of crap on the ground all the time.  Diablo was anti-climatic by comparison.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on June 27, 2012, 01:11:37 PM
Belial was the only normal mode boss that I found difficult, and I wasn't particularly using the AH. Still haven't, once in a while I'll buy a weapon or a piece of armor if I notice I am lagging behind on it (aka "Oh hey, those boots are min level 22, maybe I should look for something for my level 43 ass"). Nightmare Diablo was a little hard (took me two or three tries I think). Haven't actually gotten to him on Hell, I don't particularly care for Hell difficulty. :P


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on June 27, 2012, 01:37:30 PM
Belial was the only normal mode boss that I found difficult, and I wasn't particularly using the AH. Still haven't, once in a while I'll buy a weapon or a piece of armor if I notice I am lagging behind on it (aka "Oh hey, those boots are min level 22, maybe I should look for something for my level 43 ass"). Nightmare Diablo was a little hard (took me two or three tries I think). Haven't actually gotten to him on Hell, I don't particularly care for Hell difficulty. :P

Now see, I think Hell is about where things should be in terms of difficulty. Normal was boring and Nightmare was swing 1 or 2 more times to kill the same mob in normal. Hell is when I had to start actually playing. But to each his(her) own.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on June 27, 2012, 02:18:43 PM
Hell was the sweet spot for me as well. If Hell had been balanced for 60 across-the-board and had sets/uniques in it, I think the game would have been much better. The inferno difficulty reaches the point where certain builds and item/stat values are required which is considerably less fun.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on June 27, 2012, 02:24:26 PM
Hell is where I start to feel like "I gotta use x, y and z," which makes the skill system less fun. Normal is way too easy (although I won't lie, facerolling the shit out of things can be fun), nightmare is probably a bit too easy too, but Hell just feels kinda unfun for me right now.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ice Cream Emperor on June 27, 2012, 02:34:48 PM
Hell was the sweet spot for me as well. If Hell had been balanced for 60 across-the-board and had sets/uniques in it, I think the game would have been much better. The inferno difficulty reaches the point where certain builds and item/stat values are required which is considerably less fun.

100% this. If Hell dropped a significant portion of the end-game loot, and Inferno was like 'crazy adventuretime' where you could, I dunno, get access to certain weird affixes on items, or awesome account-wide buffs for completing unusual challenges, or of course some of the ultra-uber gear -- that would feel so much more enjoyable. I am at the point where Act 1 Inferno is also pretty fun, difficulty-wise, but anything past that remains NNNG and I am getting really, really bored with running Act 1.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on June 27, 2012, 07:32:45 PM
100% this. If Hell dropped a significant portion of the end-game loot, and Inferno was like 'crazy adventuretime' where you could, I dunno, get access to certain weird affixes on items, or awesome account-wide buffs for completing unusual challenges, or of course some of the ultra-uber gear -- that would feel so much more enjoyable. I am at the point where Act 1 Inferno is also pretty fun, difficulty-wise, but anything past that remains NNNG and I am getting really, really bored with running Act 1.

Aside from bragging-rights rewards like achievements and banners, they could have just had the same loot table for hell & inferno but given inferno higher min/max potentials for modifiers on gear. As a Hell player I could still find an awesome 800 dps legendary weapon that makes my day, but an Inferno player might be able to find a 1000 dps version of the same weapon if they're lucky.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on June 27, 2012, 07:58:03 PM
Hell was the sweet spot for me as well. If Hell had been balanced for 60 across-the-board and had sets/uniques in it, I think the game would have been much better. The inferno difficulty reaches the point where certain builds and item/stat values are required which is considerably less fun.

100% this. If Hell dropped a significant portion of the end-game loot, and Inferno was like 'crazy adventuretime' where you could, I dunno, get access to certain weird affixes on items, or awesome account-wide buffs for completing unusual challenges, or of course some of the ultra-uber gear -- that would feel so much more enjoyable. I am at the point where Act 1 Inferno is also pretty fun, difficulty-wise, but anything past that remains NNNG and I am getting really, really bored with running Act 1.


Yeah, this would definitely be a better way.  Lots of people in Diablo 2 farmed plenty of good loot doing stuff like Nightmare Mephisto for example.  You couldn't get absolute top end gear from him, but he dropped enough good end game loot that he was worth doing.  Granted, loot was a bit different then, so there were quite a few of of not-quite-endgame (in terms of level) gear, that was actually best in slot or almost best in slot (things like Shaftstop), which could drop off NM bosses.  This was in part due to the unique stats, which seem a bit less prominent in D3.  Still, they have time to get the loot right.   


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rendakor on June 27, 2012, 09:57:04 PM
Belial was the only normal mode boss that I found difficult, and I wasn't particularly using the AH. Still haven't, once in a while I'll buy a weapon or a piece of armor if I notice I am lagging behind on it (aka "Oh hey, those boots are min level 22, maybe I should look for something for my level 43 ass"). Nightmare Diablo was a little hard (took me two or three tries I think). Haven't actually gotten to him on Hell, I don't particularly care for Hell difficulty. :P
Belial was the hardest boss for me on my first playthrough as well; I was duoing at the time (my Wizard, friend's Barb) and we just weren't expecting a WoW-level "get out of the fire" spam.

Regarding difficulty, I found Nightmare to be about right with Hell crossing the line from fun into annoying. In NM I could use almost all offensive abilities as a Wizard as long as I played carefully; in Hell the damage ramp up combined with deadly affix combos made me quit about halfway through Act 2.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Sjofn on June 28, 2012, 12:08:42 AM
Yeah, after my first playthrough on normal Belial wasn't a problem, just that first time through on my DH was hard (I wasn't using fake-vanish, I wasn't used to his giant hit box, etc).


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Strazos on June 30, 2012, 12:48:03 AM
So is there really no way to play this "offline"? My DSL mostly works, but...I get crazy PL sometimes, and about 40% of the time it gets me killed.

I haven't even bothered to play with other live people yet, so it's infuriating to have a singleplayer game tied to ping.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 30, 2012, 12:57:16 AM
lol?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on June 30, 2012, 09:01:50 AM
So is there really no way to play this "offline"? My DSL mostly works, but...I get crazy PL sometimes, and about 40% of the time it gets me killed.

I haven't even bothered to play with other live people yet, so it's infuriating to have a singleplayer game tied to ping.

This is how you play diablo offline:
http://www.amazon.com/Diablo-2-mac-PC/dp/B00002CF9M

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ironwood on June 30, 2012, 10:33:21 AM
In that case, it's far better in offline mode.

  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Outlawedprod on July 02, 2012, 02:04:52 PM
This guy's enchantress is better geared than your wizard.  So Blizzard will probably nerf companion dps by 50% in the next maintenance window.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLykMdRRkZ8


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Yegolev on July 03, 2012, 08:33:39 AM
Want to play, can't.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: ezrast on July 03, 2012, 09:00:22 AM
Off-topic, but I cracked up when I read this in Path of Exile's dev diary (http://www.pathofexile.com/news/2012-06-26/dev-diary-maps):
Quote
Action RPGs typically have three difficulty levels. The player plays through the game several times using the same character, with the challenge ramping up each time. Right back at the start of the project, we thought it would be a great idea to add a fourth difficulty level that was really challenging so that players would have something to aim to beat.

When we tested this, we found that players reacted really badly to a sudden brick wall of difficult content that they were unable to progress in. We tried changing it to a steady ramp of difficulty, but then players found isolated areas where the monster AI was more abusable and farmed those with specific builds to get rewards with little risk.
It's amazing what you can learn when you actually test things and listen to player feedback!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 03, 2012, 09:13:35 AM
Jesus, that map feature is awesome!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Arinon on July 03, 2012, 10:13:56 AM
Quote
When we tested this, we found that players reacted really badly to a sudden brick wall of difficult content that they were unable to progress in.
The modern gaming audience disappoints me.  Here you have this game, you've gone through all the story content three times and have presumably unlocked all the tactical options, but get you upset at a fourth time being potentially too hard to finish?

Is the need to plant some flag at "The End" of a game so great that we can't have super hard content anymore?  I'm not sure where a gamer goes now to get never-ending difficulty short of inventing handicaps or digging up old games meant to be played rather than beaten.  Probably PvP.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on July 03, 2012, 10:23:09 AM
Probably PvP.


Yep. There is a reason I keep going back to Starcraft 2.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Jeff Kelly on July 03, 2012, 10:41:24 AM
Look some people need their games to be hard, to offer them brick walls and challenges that they spend months on and that's OK.

Many more just stop and move on to something different and that's by no means a new thing.

If I could do a survey about some of the hardest games for every generation of consoles or computers, I'm pretty certain that the fans of the hardest difficulty levels and hardcore modes would be in the minority.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on July 03, 2012, 10:50:26 AM
Look some people need their games to be hard, to offer them brick walls and challenges that they spend months on and that's OK.

Many more just stop and move on to something different and that's by no means a new thing.

If I could do a survey about some of the hardest games for every generation of consoles or computers, I'm pretty certain that the fans of the hardest difficulty levels and hardcore modes would be in the minority.

The issue is not that people want different things; the thing that makes no sense to me - as someone who doesn't especially want that 4th difficulty - is why other people in my category can't be happy with finishing the 3rd and move on with their lives. The very existence of something not meant for them (that isn't any different in terms of content or story, so it isn't like they're missing out on something!) makes them unhappy, and they fill forum after forum with their whining. I just don't understand this point of view at all.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on July 03, 2012, 10:55:16 AM
Look some people need their games to be hard, to offer them brick walls and challenges that they spend months on and that's OK.

Many more just stop and move on to something different and that's by no means a new thing.

If I could do a survey about some of the hardest games for every generation of consoles or computers, I'm pretty certain that the fans of the hardest difficulty levels and hardcore modes would be in the minority.

The issue is not that people want different things; the thing that makes no sense to me - as someone who doesn't especially want that 4th difficulty - is why other people in my category can't be happy with finishing the 3rd and move on with their lives. The very existence of something not meant for them (that isn't any different in terms of content or story, so it isn't like they're missing out on something!) makes them unhappy, and they fill forum after forum with their whining. I just don't understand this point of view at all.

 :Love_Letters:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: ezrast on July 03, 2012, 10:55:43 AM
The "end of the game" is irrelevant. An ARPG character is an investment of time, and unlike a traditional RPG you're not in it for the story. We just want to keep playing our characters, and if all of the content is either trivial or impossible we can't do that. People would still be complaining if Inferno and 61+ items didn't exist at all, because their favorite characters would be all dressed up with nowhere to go.

edit to add: if the problem were that people just couldn't stand not completing the hardest content in the game, the QQ would all be from hardcore players. It's not.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 03, 2012, 10:55:54 AM
The issue is not that people want different things; the thing that makes no sense to me - as someone who doesn't especially want that 4th difficulty - is why other people in my category can't be happy with finishing the 3rd and move on with their lives. The very existence of something not meant for them (that isn't any different in terms of content or story, so it isn't like they're missing out on something!) makes them unhappy, and they fill forum after forum with their whining. I just don't understand this point of view at all.

Did you read what they wrote?

Quote
When we tested this, we found that players reacted really badly to a sudden brick wall of difficult content that they were unable to progress in. We tried changing it to a steady ramp of difficulty, but then players found isolated areas where the monster AI was more abusable and farmed those with specific builds to get rewards with little risk.

It also looses context, when you leave out the solution they came up with.

Quote
When trying to solve this, we realised that the fourth difficulty level was only necessary until we added Act Three, at which point we’d reduce it back to three difficulty levels so that we’re not forcing the player to play through the same static content four times back-to-back. Our temporary solution, a month or so before entering Closed Beta last year, was to introduce the Maelstrom of Chaos areas. These were a sequence of random areas (using tilesets from all over the game) with completely random monster packs. Players gained access to it when they finished the final difficulty and could play through a series of levels that gradually ramped in difficulty.

The Maelstrom helped the situation, but players would still travel to areas that were too hard for them and complain that they weren’t able to kill monsters. We eventually flattened all the Maelstrom areas to be the same level, just ramping in density of bosses. By that time we had decided we needed a new, better mechanic for access to end-game areas. Maps will replace the Maelstrom in 0.9.11.

Variable Difficulty

An expected consequence of the amount of customisation that Path of Exile offers is that characters can differ in power by large amounts. Players abusing whatever the current broken skill is with a clever synergistic passive build, godly rare items and high-quality Skill Gems are able to handle triple the challenge of other players.

Our end-game has to cater to both groups of players. Both regular and power players need to be challenged in different ways, so that they feel the need to continue to improve their characters. Our Map system allows players to pick the difficulty that they encounter. As you’ve seen in this article, players can create and obtain harder versions of Maps that offer more challenges and more rewards.

This, is how you should develop games. With maps, everyone wins. It helps if you read the whole article, that clearly goes through the genesis of the idea, problem, and solution.





Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on July 03, 2012, 10:58:51 AM
I don't give 2 shits about PoE, I was addressing the D3 side of the discussion.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 03, 2012, 11:03:18 AM
I don't give 2 shits about PoE, I was addressing the D3 side of the discussion.

 :uhrr:

Vacuums are great!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on July 03, 2012, 11:14:21 AM
Our end-game has to cater to both groups of players.

Just for you, this is where they're wrong. The end-game doesn't have to cater to everyone, especially when you're talking about a game like an ARPG where there's pretty much only one kind of gameplay. (And there's no sub fee to justify.)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 03, 2012, 11:17:44 AM
It does when the revenue and balance for the game is based around the RMAH!  :awesome_for_real:

Got'a keep'em playin.

I suppose, if you want to keep the game only for the cool kids, keep the wall. "Not for You" is a player concept, not one that's used by good developers.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on July 03, 2012, 11:21:42 AM
But you're missing literally nothing by not playing Inferno. Literally. Nothing. It is the same monsters, same areas, mostly even the same loot. This is what I mean by not understanding your point of view. Inferno is not for me, and that is OK.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 03, 2012, 11:24:06 AM
And in POE, its not, and you get to pick the difficulty continuing to play. But we are talking about D3, a game made in a vacuum around an Auction hall.

Obviously, the solution to any difficulty walls would be, go visit the auction hall. Boy, that's a great design point right there. Reminds me of something....


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on July 03, 2012, 11:33:40 AM
And in POE, its not, and you get to pick the difficulty continuing to play. But we are talking about D3, a game made in a vacuum around an Auction hall.

Obviously, the solution to any difficulty walls would be, go visit the auction hall. Boy, that's a great design point right there. Reminds me of something....

That has nothing to do at all with the discussion.  That is a drop rate issue and has literally nothing to do with difficulty.  In Diablo 3 you also get to pick the difficulty of continuing play - it is called doing the content you can complete.  Farming Act 1 Inferno is not particularly different from farming "Whatever Difficulty Maps" to my mind.  This is the real issue for me here.  I'm fine with maps that spawn a random tileset with a difficulty of your choice - fine addition to vary things up or whatever, but I don't see how it is meaningfully different form just redoing content if you are concerned about having things to do in the "end game."  If I like doing Act 2 inferno, and Ingmar likes doing Act 4 Hell, and Bloodworth likes doing WhateverTerminologyPoEUses Difficulty Maps - what is *really* the difference there?  People are still going to complain there are maps they can't complete or acts they can't complete and it is those people who are the problem regardless of the way the developers choose to respond.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Abelian75 on July 03, 2012, 11:43:39 AM
This is just a little aside, but I just realized that the only times I've actually been driven to purchase AH gear is when I am unable to kill treasure goblins (when completely untroubled by other monsters).  I'm not sure if they are intended as a gear check, but they definitely feel like the most explicit "if you can't kill me, you are severely undergeared" message to me.  Blizzard's made some comments about how people are using gear more powerful than expected for lower level inferno acts, but to me, nothing communicates expected level of gear more than the treasure goblins, and right now, they are definitely telling me i need to use the AH.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on July 03, 2012, 11:45:10 AM
But you're missing literally nothing by not playing Inferno. Literally. Nothing. It is the same monsters, same areas, mostly even the same loot. This is what I mean by not understanding your point of view. Inferno is not for me, and that is OK.

It's not the same loot at all. It's the only place set items exist, and it's where most of the uniques are found. The most appealing loot hooks in the game are only in Inferno.

Jesus, that map feature is awesome!

The PoE map system does sound brilliant. Reading the dev diary about the feature basically sold me on the game. Some other dated aspects of the game, such as potion chugging, are a good reminder about the positive innovations from D3 though.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on July 03, 2012, 11:49:17 AM
But you're missing literally nothing by not playing Inferno. Literally. Nothing. It is the same monsters, same areas, mostly even the same loot. This is what I mean by not understanding your point of view. Inferno is not for me, and that is OK.

It's not the same loot at all. It's the only place set items exist, and it's where most of the uniques are found. The most appealing loot hooks in the game are only in Inferno.


One of these is literally true and one is not:

"mostly even the same loot"
"not the same loot at all"

Hint: 95%+ of the things that drop in Inferno, drop in Hell.

Yes, you have a tiny chance at some set items, recipes, whatever. For the most part those are only relevant if you have some sort of need to play through Inferno anyway. So yay, Inferno drops things for Inferno players. That changes nothing at all about my point.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 03, 2012, 11:50:18 AM
Some other dated aspects of the game, such as potion chugging,

http://www.pathofexile.com/news/2011-03-21/dev-diary-flasks


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 03, 2012, 11:51:01 AM
So how many posts has BW made jerking it to POE thus far?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: ezrast on July 03, 2012, 11:54:08 AM
To be honest, the main difference to me is that PoE's endgame is a lot more random than Diablo's. That's really it. It's slightly more interesting and alleviates the brick wall issue (because you're never forced to go through any one particular boss).
Some other dated aspects of the game, such as potion chugging, are a good reminder about the positive innovations from D3 though.
PoE's potions are its best innovation. Not hyperbole. Health globes feel really clumsy to me personally.
So how many posts has BW made jerking it to POE thus far?
Not enough, apparently. The lukewarm response to the game here is really baffling to me.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on July 03, 2012, 11:57:58 AM
Probably because 1) it is fugly, 2) most of us (I'm guessing) have been disappointed on some level by every ARPG that isn't called Diablo 2 so we can't trust anymore, and 3) MrB is championing it and he has a decades-long history of championing terrible indie games. He's the boy who cried Wurm.  :grin:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Abelian75 on July 03, 2012, 11:59:34 AM
Not enough, apparently. The lukewarm response to the game here is really baffling to me.

I'm gonna be brutally honest here.  The game looks like crap.  Not mechanically, but visually.  I'm totally not normally a graphics whore, but in an ARPG, man, you really gotta look and feel good.  And that game, from what I've seen, just does not look good.  They went for a realistic look on what I assume is a pretty low budget.  That seems like a bad move to me.  I really don't get off on insulting games, and I feel kind of bad about saying that, but this is honestly in the "so bad that I reflexively say 'ugh' when I look at a screenshot" category.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 03, 2012, 12:00:00 PM
So how many posts has BW made jerking it to POE thus far?

I'm really not trying to. However, when discussing games, contemporary games do come up. When I picked up D3 one of the first things I said was it feels like its stuck in a vacuum. It IS stuck in a vacuum.

Whats amazing to me, is a group of 20 over 5 years has made a more forward thinking game that truly progresses this game type. But it doesn't say blizzard on it, and it didn't take 10 years to develop just to land right back into the issues its always had. The only innovations here are single player lag, and turning your player base into Chinese gold farmers.

Its not even F2P, its double dip.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Miasma on July 03, 2012, 12:02:39 PM
I stopped playing PoE ten minutes into it because there was no out of combat health regeneration.  I'm not drinking a God damn potion after every fight.

I imagine at minute fifteen or so I would have been given some gear or ability with regen but there are too many other sources of entertainment to bother with five extra minutes of suck.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 03, 2012, 12:08:13 PM
I stopped playing PoE ten minutes into it because there was no out of combat health regeneration.  

But there is. Its part of the gear customization system and flasks and passive skill tree.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: ezrast on July 03, 2012, 12:10:47 PM
They refill when you kill things! It's brilliant! Brilliant I tell you!!!

(and yeah, game is pretty goddamn brown but it's not so bad once you get playing)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Arinon on July 03, 2012, 12:25:07 PM
And in POE, its not, and you get to pick the difficulty continuing to play. But we are talking about D3, a game made in a vacuum around an Auction hall.

Obviously, the solution to any difficulty walls would be, go visit the auction hall. Boy, that's a great design point right there. Reminds me of something....

Tailoring difficulty to players is fan-fucking-tastic.  It has nothing to do with the issue other than the fact that my difficulty of choice (ball breaking) rarely makes it into games.  Not because it's hard/expensive to implement but because it's mere existence offends so many people.  It's particularly egregious here though because, as Ingmar points out, all they really did is add zeroes to some of the numbers.  Even with that we still have all this venom for Inferno.



Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 03, 2012, 12:26:59 PM
Jeff Kelly already covered that, and POE solved it in a rather elegant way, complete with ball breaking.

Enjoy:

Vacuum. You can ether ignore those players, and tell them "Not for you", or accept that at some point, its just not fun, and address it.

You pick what would be best for your RMAH.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Job601 on July 03, 2012, 12:56:43 PM

Not enough, apparently. The lukewarm response to the game here is really baffling to me.

What's baffling to me is that anyone who played the PoE beta can think it's in any way competitive with either Diablo 3 or Torchlight.  The game's animations and skills just look and feel bad, the maps are so big and meandering that they all feel like Act 3 from Diablo 2, and the absurd passive skill tree will be fun for people who like copying builds off the internet and confusing to everybody else.  What's even worse is that the most innovative system, the skill gems, caters to players who like going through boredom and frustration before they get to play with their toys.  The skills are also very poorly balanced, at least the last time I played, although maybe people like that.  These are all areas in which Diablo 3 excels and they don't have anything to do with designing around the RMAH.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on July 03, 2012, 01:50:31 PM
PoE has a long way to go visually, so I can sympathize with those who say looks turned them off. The animations in particular look bad. I wasn't on-board until I read about some of their features that seemed genuinely innovative. It's still beta (and with lots of work left to implement, including another act) so I'm willing to wait and see how it turns out. Given that it will be F2P there's really nothing to lose.

Hint: 95%+ of the things that drop in Inferno, drop in Hell.

Yes, some (non-63) Inferno drops have a very very small chance to drop in Act 3 and 4 hell. I guess if people want to collect sets or uniques like they did in D2, but don't want to do the monotonous grind that is Inferno, they can just grind the 30 minute Act 4 for 200 hours.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on July 03, 2012, 01:53:45 PM
"Drops aren't like D2" is a different complaint than "Inferno is too hard/content that doesn't cater specifically to me".


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on July 03, 2012, 02:06:49 PM
My comment was that Inferno was not just "a harder version of content you already did". It also drastically changes the loot game, which is the main draw of Diablo for (seemingly) most players. If your goal is to collect sets/uniques, Inferno is the only realistic means of finding them. Well, aside from the AH I guess - fun!

The issue is not that people want different things; the thing that makes no sense to me - as someone who doesn't especially want that 4th difficulty - is why other people in my category can't be happy with finishing the 3rd and move on with their lives.

Because the loot experience people were craving from the series wasn't met by the 3rd difficulty. This is pretty easy to understand. Most people don't give a shit if the highest difficulty for Halo or Gears of War is too hard because they got the experience they sought and expected out of the easier difficulties. You can imagine if the highest difficulty of Halo was the only place you could use vehicles or 1/2 the weapons, people would be upset.

But you're missing literally nothing by not playing Inferno.

You miss out on a realistic chance to find useful unique items or any set items period. You also miss out on having Act 1 & 2 available as possible places to farm these items.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on July 03, 2012, 02:12:05 PM
The fact that there are no sets/uniques on lower difficulty levels has nothing to do with the existence or non-existence of Inferno difficulty. It is a separate design decision (that I would agree was a poor one). They could add a bunch of lower level set items and uniques tomorrow, completely solving that objection, and the vast majority of people whining about Inferno difficulty and build constraints and grind would still be whining.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on July 03, 2012, 02:18:17 PM
They could add a bunch of lower level set items and uniques tomorrow, completely solving that objection, and the vast majority of people whining about Inferno difficulty and build constraints and grind would still be whining.

I disagree. I think if the loot experience people expected (collecting sets, giving cool uniques to alts, finding useful at-level items, etc.) was met with the original 3 difficulties you would have seen much less complaining about Inferno. You can't ignore the first 3 difficulties when talking about why Inferno gets so many complaints.

Iirc didn't a Blizzard dev say that most players never made it to the level cap or far into Hell in Diablo 2? It's because they were satisfied with the difficulty, loot, and length of Normal/Nightmare. Having an extra higher difficulty that they ignored did not break the game for them, just as it doesn't in Halo or Gears of War.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on July 03, 2012, 02:18:46 PM
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6019511928#17

Quote
We recognize that the item hunt is just not enough for a long-term sustainable end-game. There are still tons of people playing every day and week, and playing a lot, but eventually they're going to run out of stuff to do (if they haven't already). Killing enemies and finding items is a lot of fun, and we think we have a lot of the systems surrounding that right, or at least on the right path with a few corrections and tweaks. But honestly Diablo III is not World of Warcraft. We aren't going to be able to pump out tons of new systems and content every couple months. There needs to be something else that keeps people engaged, and we know it's not there right now.

We're working toward 1.0.4, which we're really trying to pack with as many fixes and changes we can to help you guys out (and we'll have a bunch of articles posted with all the details as we get closer), and we're of course working on 1.1 with PvP arenas. I think both those patches will do a lot to give people things to do, and get them excited about playing, but they're not going to be a real end-game solution, at least not what we would expect out of a proper end-game. We have some ideas for progression systems, but honestly it's a huge feature if we want to try to do it right, and not something we could envision being possible until well after 1.1 which it itself still a ways out.

and
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6019511928?page=2#32

Quote
Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that.

TL:DR: We thought the item hunt would last for months, people are getting bored, we have nothing in place currently to fix this, PvP is a ways off,  end game content is even further off.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on July 03, 2012, 02:26:15 PM
Have they decided they don't want to do ladder seasons etc. like with D2?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rokal on July 03, 2012, 02:34:30 PM
I believe they said there would be absolutely no ladder resets in Diablo 3. They'd be in hot-water if they tried to implement one, given the complications the RMAH would introduce.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Arinon on July 03, 2012, 03:11:23 PM
The fact that there are no sets/uniques on lower difficulty levels has nothing to do with the existence or non-existence of Inferno difficulty. It is a separate design decision (that I would agree was a poor one). They could add a bunch of lower level set items and uniques tomorrow, completely solving that objection, and the vast majority of people whining about Inferno difficulty and build constraints and grind would still be whining.

I think a better way to illustrate this is if they added an 'Extra Crispy' difficulty above Inferno.  No additional sets or uniques in there, same drops, just harder mobs and champ packs.  People would blow their tops.  A whole fifth of the game is unplayable!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Job601 on July 03, 2012, 03:21:26 PM

TL:DR: We thought the item hunt would last for months, people are getting bored, we have nothing in place currently to fix this, PvP is a ways off,  end game content is even further off.

The fact that people are getting the items they need to get bored faster than they expected is evidence against the conspiracy theories that the game has been designed around the auction house.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ice Cream Emperor on July 03, 2012, 03:25:26 PM
But you're missing literally nothing by not playing Inferno. Literally. Nothing. It is the same monsters, same areas, mostly even the same loot. This is what I mean by not understanding your point of view. Inferno is not for me, and that is OK.

Well, as someone mentioned, what you are missing is the ability to continually play your character and feel like you are making some sort of progress doing so -- even if it's a sort of very-gradual, laid-back progress.

By having all the farmable-end-game-loot in Inferno, D3 suggests to the player that Inferno should be their characters' final resting/playing space. If Hell was full of level 60 loot and then Inferno was also full of level 60 loot, that would be different -- but instead Hell is full of demonstrably not-even-interesting items for a character who has hit 60 and is in that continued-play end-game zone. Again, you can compare this to D2, where open-ended leveling combined with lots-of-neat-loot starting to drop even in late Nightmare meant that even if your guy was not optimized enough to burn through Act 4/5 Hell nonstop, you could still play the character and get Real Actual End-Game Drops (if less frequently) while also slowly but surely gaining levels that might help you eventually bump your guy up a notch, difficulty-wise.

--

This by the way is not intended as 'your approach to playing this game is wrong', just a bit of support for a mindset that someone else mentioned and which I think is a valid desire of many ARPG players.


ARPGs have very different conditions for 'being done' than CRPGs, and probably even MMOs.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Abelian75 on July 03, 2012, 05:38:58 PM
The fact that people are getting the items they need to get bored faster than they expected is evidence against the conspiracy theories that the game has been designed around the auction house.

Yeah, I think this was actually a really pleasantly honest thing for them to admit.  Doesn't make the situation suck any less, of course.  I'm guessing there are a large number of people on the team there that hate the AH, frankly.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on July 03, 2012, 05:43:06 PM
The AH isn't the problem. It's the fact they made absolutely no fucking effort to get items out of the economy. I fully expect that by the time I get back into town this weekend, items will have tripled from what I saw.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Abelian75 on July 03, 2012, 05:44:56 PM
Well, that sorta ties into what I was responding to, though.  It really doesn't seem like the game was designed around the AH.  In a bad way.  Like, in the sense that the game was largely not even designed taking into account the AH.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on July 03, 2012, 09:11:53 PM
 I'm not sure where a gamer goes now to get never-ending difficulty short of inventing handicaps or digging up old games meant to be played rather than beaten.  Probably PvP.


The first time I tried PvP was in WoW where I took my hunter to a battleground and had some rogue fight my pet while I stood back and shot him. All the time I was thinking this is the better than any ai all the PvP enthusiasts rave about?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Soulflame on July 03, 2012, 09:49:02 PM
PvP won't solve a damn thing.  It'll be the person with the best gear + build with too much CC tromping over everyone else.

There had better not be any nerfs that impact PvE to balance PvP.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on July 03, 2012, 10:04:29 PM
They refill when you kill things! It's brilliant! Brilliant I tell you!!!

(and yeah, game is pretty goddamn brown but it's not so bad once you get playing)
The big problem with the game is Act 1 is ugly as hell and no one has the patience to get to Act 2. Shame because Act 2 looks way better than the fugly beach in Act 1.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on July 03, 2012, 10:26:29 PM

There had better not be any nerfs that impact PvE to balance PvP.

You know there will be so may as well suck it up in advance :)


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Maledict on July 04, 2012, 03:39:39 AM
Well, that sorta ties into what I was responding to, though.  It really doesn't seem like the game was designed around the AH.  In a bad way.  Like, in the sense that the game was largely not even designed taking into account the AH.

Completely agree (and think I mentioned it a month or so ago as well). The game hasn't been designed around the AH, it's been designed *without* the AH. Take the game then add into that a means to easily acquire the best gear no matter what you are doing, and the complete lack of any reason to re-roll and the game has a very clear 'end point'. Its almost a case study of 'perfect markets' in action - diablo 3 removes a huge amount of the hoops and hurdles diablo 2 has around trading, and in return gear changes hands much faster and prices better reflect power. Diablo 2 didn't have that - not only was getting the best gear incredibly time consuming and would take ages, but also you could replay characters with different specs. I've played a sorceress to 80+ a few times - a chain lightning build, a meteor build, a frozen orb build etc.

Ultimately as much as I loathe to admit it, the instant respec thing has not helped long term playability either.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: dusematic on July 04, 2012, 07:17:35 AM
Hit a wall in Act II Inferno.

Got drunk last night, freaked out, and spent over $500 in the RMAH.  Woke up this morning feeling ashamed, called in sick, and started drinking.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 04, 2012, 07:21:43 AM
Hit a wall in Act II Inferno.

Got drunk last night, freaked out, and spent over $500 in the RMAH.  Woke up this morning feeling ashamed, called in sick, and started drinking.

Never go to Vegas.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on July 04, 2012, 07:21:53 AM
Seriously? I hope that's a troll because $500 on the RMAH? Ouch!

Admittedly I'm cock-blocked on my monk in Act 2 as well - and am sick of soloing Act 1 for gold.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: dusematic on July 04, 2012, 07:24:27 AM
Seriously? I hope that's a troll because $500 on the RMAH? Ouch!

Admittedly I'm cock-blocked on my monk in Act 2 as well - and am sick of soloing Act 1 for gold.

Yeah, I'm drinking champagne spiked with acai-berry vodka now.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: dusematic on July 04, 2012, 07:25:46 AM
The sad thing is my gear still sucks and is barely adequate for Act 2 Inferno.  Partly due to the fact that I was drunk and made poor impulse buys, and partly due to the fact that all the really good items typically sell for USD $250 apiece.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: dusematic on July 04, 2012, 07:28:07 AM
Also, I just realized I have several bids pending on items.  I'm hoping someone outbids me but we'll know soon enough.  That will slide the final expenditure closer to a thousand dollars than I'd like.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: dusematic on July 04, 2012, 07:29:35 AM
On a more positive note, I am now the proud owner of 4 legendary items.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Malakili on July 04, 2012, 07:32:24 AM
On a more positive note, I am now the proud owner of 4 legendary items.

Are they at least good legendary items?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Miasma on July 04, 2012, 07:32:37 AM
Wow.  You could try and re-sell it to recoup some of that I guess, if you have paypal set up.  Most legendaries kinda suck, unless you're a DH and are getting that green set.

You will also need a new avatar, Katie and Tom broke up because she didn't want her kid on some insane floating Scientologist school where you have to pledge yourself to them for literally one billion years.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: dusematic on July 04, 2012, 07:33:53 AM
Katie and Tom broke up

Still reeling from the news.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: dusematic on July 04, 2012, 07:36:02 AM
On a more positive note, I am now the proud owner of 4 legendary items.

Are they at least good legendary items?

I don't know.  I got a stormshield, justice lantern, helm of command, and empyrean messenger, plus a bunch of other shit.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: dusematic on July 04, 2012, 07:40:47 AM
New jack reacher trailer is out.  Whooooooooooo!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Abelian75 on July 04, 2012, 08:04:15 AM
Hit a wall in Act II Inferno.

Got drunk last night, freaked out, and spent over $500 in the RMAH.  Woke up this morning feeling ashamed, called in sick, and started drinking.

Oh god!  This hurts to read!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: dusematic on July 04, 2012, 09:18:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrzS_LEodRY


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on July 04, 2012, 07:06:06 PM
Hit a wall in Act II Inferno.

Got drunk last night, freaked out, and spent over $500 in the RMAH.  Woke up this morning feeling ashamed, called in sick, and started drinking.
What in the hairy fuck is wrong with you stop playing this game.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: 01101010 on July 04, 2012, 07:10:59 PM
Hit a wall in Act II Inferno.

Got drunk last night, freaked out, and spent over $500 in the RMAH.  Woke up this morning feeling ashamed, called in sick, and started drinking.
What in the hairy fuck is wrong with you stop playing this game.

Shush you. I want to continue to watch this unravel.  :grin:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 04, 2012, 07:32:27 PM
Hit a wall in Act II Inferno.

Got drunk last night, freaked out, and spent over $500 in the RMAH.  Woke up this morning feeling ashamed, called in sick, and started drinking.
What in the hairy fuck is wrong with you stop playing this game.

Shush you. I want to continue to watch this unravel.  :grin:

"will suck dick for legendaries"  Is where it's gonna end.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: LK on July 05, 2012, 11:51:17 AM
That must've been some freak out?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Outlawedprod on July 08, 2012, 06:28:08 AM
"1.0.3 Dupe method out on youtube"
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6036615318?page=1

Great thread lol.  I do like this one-liner in there:
Quote
I bet that's Jay Wilson trying to get people to just log into the game.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Margalis on July 08, 2012, 06:44:31 AM
Quote
I bet that's Jay Wilson trying to get people to just log into the game.

Damn. Straight for the jugular!

Is the dupe thing actually real though? Kind of hard to tell from reading that thread. Probably fake but at least it produced a zinger.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on July 08, 2012, 08:33:30 AM
I like the guy who said, "well, at least now the blacksmith is useful."


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on July 08, 2012, 11:24:06 AM
Isn't real. The video has a jump cut @ 38 seconds, look at the weapon glow.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Miasma on July 08, 2012, 04:20:16 PM
"This topic has been deleted"


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on July 08, 2012, 04:51:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmkAosFwF7M

^the video in question


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Outlawedprod on July 11, 2012, 11:54:20 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmkAosFwF7M
^the video in question

The video is  pretty much dumb.  The thread was golden though.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 11, 2012, 12:13:10 PM
Well, that sorta ties into what I was responding to, though.  It really doesn't seem like the game was designed around the AH.  

Hay guys, "PSA: Don't craft, use the AH".


Ok, ok. I'm leaving.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Abelian75 on July 11, 2012, 06:14:18 PM
Hay guys, "PSA: Don't craft, use the AH".


Ok, ok. I'm leaving.

I'm confused as to whether you're agreeing with me or not.  It seems like you're disagreeing, but what you're pointing out is exactly the kind of thing that points to the AH being a tacked-on thing whose interactions with other systems wasn't thought about anywhere near sufficiently.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: taolurker on July 11, 2012, 11:08:53 PM
The hidden meaning in Bloodworth's post: "Path of Exile crafting"?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on July 12, 2012, 12:39:12 AM
Looking at the GAH, they have really shot themselves in the foot with items now selling in the billions.

Nice way to stop people from hitting Inferno Diablo though.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on July 12, 2012, 06:28:42 AM
The hidden meaning in Bloodworth's post: "Path of Exile crafting"?

Nothing BW had done lately is hidden. He's been posting verbal pictures with PoE's cock in his mouth.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lantyssa on July 12, 2012, 06:56:34 AM
If bots are snapping up deals, couldn't players at least sell items (if they ever find them) and make good money?  Buying might be harder, but do the bots have the tier below mega-awesome-amazing priced out of reach, too?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tebonas on July 12, 2012, 07:04:20 AM
Sweatshop 2.0 - Players working for Bots? Sounds like a winner.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Pennilenko on July 12, 2012, 11:04:14 AM
The hidden meaning in Bloodworth's post: "Path of Exile crafting"?

Nothing BW had done lately is hidden. He's been posting verbal pictures with PoE's cock in his mouth.

PoE is pretty damn awesome compared to D3, I understand BW's fervor.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on July 12, 2012, 11:05:13 AM
And that's fine, but we got it the first 10 times around.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 12, 2012, 11:49:02 AM
The hidden meaning in Bloodworth's post: "Path of Exile crafting"?

Nothing BW had done lately is hidden. He's been posting verbal pictures with PoE's cock in his mouth.

Yes, but it was a cock I could immediately use, instead of one what was too small and so I had to go to crags list the RMAH to find one fit for the job.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Pennilenko on July 12, 2012, 07:43:01 PM
Yes, but it was a cock I could immediately use, instead of one what was too small and so I had to go to crags list the RMAH to find one fit for the job.  :why_so_serious:

You should quit picking on the monkey, since he is an easy mark when it comes to blizzard products.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on July 13, 2012, 08:33:31 AM
Bloodworth: Size Queen!?


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Mrbloodworth on July 13, 2012, 08:49:20 AM
*Gigady Gigady*


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: taolurker on July 13, 2012, 09:12:55 AM
POEnis size is SERIOUS!


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Fabricated on July 13, 2012, 07:32:36 PM
Blizzard is hiring for the D3 team:

! Production Director
! Senior Producer
! Senior Software Engineer, Console – Gameplay
! Senior Software Engineer, Server

The "!" is from their site and denotes an urgent opening I guess.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 13, 2012, 07:37:15 PM
Careful not to trip over the rolling heads.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on July 13, 2012, 09:59:31 PM
! Indicates a particularly critical position.

 :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tannhauser on July 14, 2012, 05:33:58 AM
Can't be terminations, I've been told D3 is great and was designed by gaming wizards.  I think those positions with ! are just quest givers.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on July 14, 2012, 09:06:39 AM
Can't be terminations, I've been told D3 is great and was designed by gaming wizards.  I think those positions with ! are just quest givers.  :oh_i_see:

I don't think anyone disagrees that the game isn't good. It's not good in it's current state. Where the disagreement lies is whether or not it can be easily repaired, and/or has the pieces to be really fun.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Lakov_Sanite on July 14, 2012, 10:20:22 AM
The game can be repaired, blizzard knows that well, that is not the issue.  This whole thing has certainly hurt their brand and they know it, making a public show of how they are firing people and fixing things isn't so much for diablo but for their public image.  I can't be the only one who has gone from the "blizzard game, must buy" to the "wait and see" category.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on July 14, 2012, 10:33:02 AM
Nothing they do now can repair that. They basically have to release a flawless product in MOP.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: apocrypha on July 14, 2012, 03:20:58 PM
MoP was a no-brainer for me before D3. Now... wait and see.

I'm not alone in having had that change of heart too, and I'd be surprised if my circle of friends was completely unrepresentative.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Phred on July 14, 2012, 03:42:11 PM
Nothing they do now can repair that. They basically have to release a flawless product in MOP.

I don't think MoP is gonna help much as it's really only of interest to people still playing WoW. Unless they can make it a reason to come back and play WoW and I can't see anything doing that for me and a whole lot of ppl.





Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Paelos on July 14, 2012, 04:16:09 PM
Nothing they do now can repair that. They basically have to release a flawless product in MOP.

I don't think MoP is gonna help much as it's really only of interest to people still playing WoW. Unless they can make it a reason to come back and play WoW and I can't see anything doing that for me and a whole lot of ppl.

It doesn't matter if people buy it that bought D3. What matters is the buzz. They need to reinstate an aura of competence for their next huge release, which I believe will be the next Starcraft Xpac.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Ingmar on July 14, 2012, 04:20:37 PM
I think you guys are overstating the extent to which Blizzard has a "problem".


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Setanta on July 14, 2012, 04:24:34 PM
MoP was always a "maybe" for me but HotS was a "yes".

Now I'm more "meh, it's Blizzard telling me how I should play their game" after the abortion of Cataclysm and the trainwreck that was D3.

Blizzard no longer equates to instant buy for me which is how I felt post WotLK and SC2.

I keep hoping that they'd dump the Activision mindset and go back to providing entertainment. SC2 is the only recent release that I unreservedly enjoyed.

I'm hoping they can totally re-vamp D3 but am wondering if they just let it languish - I'd hope not.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Tannhauser on July 14, 2012, 04:52:47 PM
I bought D3 and enjoyed it on normal. If only the cash grab had been a little more subtle.  It annoys me to think I have to spend real money over the $60 in order to fight harder difficulties. 

Anyway, won't lose too much sleep over D3.  Just a shame about the loot, AH and online-only play.

Blizzard of 2004:  Hey welcome to the World of Warcraft!  Have fun!
Blizzard of 2012:  Who are you?  Papers please.  Is this your account?  Is it authenticated?  Are our servers up today?  Yes?  Then welcome to D3, your play experience will be closely monitored.  Keep your hands where we can see them.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Abelian75 on July 14, 2012, 06:57:14 PM
I don't think anyone disagrees that the game isn't good. It's not good in it's current state. Where the disagreement lies is whether or not it can be easily repaired, and/or has the pieces to be really fun.

Kind of splitting hairs I guess, but I would actually disagree that it isn't good, though I agree with almost all the consequences of what you are calling its "not-goodness."  (brand damage and such)  I think the majority of the game is fantastic, but that it has some pretty glaring issues that should have been avoidable and, imho, aren't easy to fix (some of them are, but not all of them).

Obviously I've ranted quite a bit about these problems and I do agree that it has tarnished Blizzard's rep a bit, at least for me, hence the "splitting hairs" bit.  But if a friend asked me if it was a good game, I'd basically say it's a very good game that should have been a great game, and points toward a somewhat ailing Blizzard.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: waffel on July 14, 2012, 07:20:27 PM
Currently it seems to me 90% of their focus after release is on the AH. From tweaking it, bring the RMAH up, getting the gold sales going, banning AH botters, nerfing farm spots, etc.


Title: Re: Complaints, gripes, kvetches...
Post by: Rendakor on July 14, 2012, 07:25:12 PM
Because the AH is their revenue stream; things like class balance and such don't matter as much since they're not chasing subscriptions, they're chasing RMAH participation percentage.