Complaints, gripes, kvetches...

[Llyse]

The skill system was definitely one of hte better parts of D3 for me.

I do like the skill system, but something seems missing with new items and armour... I mean, if you get rid of requirements on armour, why can't my monk use a two handed sword? Lore? It's kinda lame. Anyway for me the saving Strength stat points to wear new armour was similar to the feeling of identifying rares for some reason.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

Part of the skill-point thing for me is just that you can go for long spans of levels without ever feeling like your character is becoming more powerful -- unless you are constantly using the AH to upgrade your gear. Skills no longer seem to bring real potency to the table -- they just bring more options to funnel your gear's stats through. And if gear is the only source of real growth in power/effectiveness/whatever, the fact that it is incredibly boring is suddenly a much more significant problem.

The fact that basically the same set of gear is good for all builds is a problem, or at least I feel like in conjunction with how the skill system works it is a problem. With the exception of the basic  (and enormous) ranged/melee split, there don't really seem to be any builds that are more or less gear-dependent. Certainly there are no builds that are gear-independent -- there's no running through Inferno with a gray weapon, or no gear except your weapon, or anything like you could see in Diablo 2 with a particular type of optimized, skill-point-based build.

Basically there's just way less variety in terms of optimal builds, viable builds, approaches to gear, and gear itself. The game is flatter when it comes to strategic options, even if tactically it probably has more things you can do than in D2. But it just turns out that all those different skills and runes and everything else are just kind of funneling your One True Gear-Stat into the content.

[Paelos]

I think that's because they made the decision to cap the levels, but left an entire section of content after that cap. If I was going to fault them on one major thing, it's that call. A lot of the complaints about itemization flow from that decision.

[01101010]

Horde and invulnerable minions should be taken out of the rotation. More so when you add in molten. Holy shit I at least try elite groups twice before thinking about throwing in the towel... This shit last night just made me bypass without a thought after the first encounter.

[Miasma]

If the minions are horde they shouldn't get their own damn affixes.

Invulnerable minions are retarded and that whole affix should be removed.

[Mrbloodworth]

jesus fuck.

I was bound and determined to finish the game. Got to Diablo, called every plot point before I even installed the thing. Then get hit with a difficulty wall for the last boss? No indication before this. What a way to balance a game. The ramp between normal play, and Dibalo boss battle is seriously stupid. I'm waltzing through the 7 levels of hell like a hot knife on butter, then. Diablo, lord of the power-gamer.

I don't dislike myself enough to go though the game again to get yet another x4 power Diablo battle.  I can only imagine doing that battle on the hardest level is like trying to fight a hacker.

/end

[Ironwood]

Wait, what ?

You mean Normal Mode Diablo or is your post just worded strangely ?

[Mrbloodworth]

Yes, on normal difficulty. I was referring to the "non-boss/boss gameplay" before that finial boss.

I think I was punished for not using the AH.

[Slayerik]

Yes, on normal difficulty. I was referring to the "non-boss/boss gameplay" before that finial boss.

I think I was punished for not using the AH.

You kinda were. I watched my kids die to Diablo a few times, and I thought if it had been me playing it would have taken a long time and a lot of good dodging to have beat him. Then I went and spent 20k at the AH and watched my son melt him.

Diablo should be tough, though, right? IDK, some games take multiple tries to take down a boss. That's kinda par for the course.

[Malakili]

Yes, on normal difficulty. I was referring to the "non-boss/boss gameplay" before that finial boss.

I think I was punished for not using the AH.

You kinda were. I watched my kids die to Diablo a few times, and I thought if it had been me playing it would have taken a long time and a lot of good dodging to have beat him. Then I went and spent 20k at the AH and watched my son melt him.

Diablo should be tough, though, right? IDK, some games take multiple tries to take down a boss. That's kinda par for the course.

There are also a number of other factors like which build you were using.  For Diablo I've learned to take pretty much whatever stuns I can and it smooths the whole fight right out. Obviously if you are playing at level 60 you want to stay with one build because you are going to want the NV buff, but while leveling tailoring builds ot specific things is something I think a lot of folks don't do (and I didn't do my first time through really), but on subsequent leveling runs I switch skills all the time.

But yes, obviously using the AH is going to make things easier - but this is basically just twinking.  Leveling characters and beating bosses  has always been easier with better gear which you usually don't find on your own the first time through, this is hardly unique to Diablo or even an Auction House.

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm fine with tough.

This was imposable. I clearly was being punished for not using the AH. I just called in a friend, he whooped him in less than 5 minutes. Then I got to watch the horribly compressed end movie. Lots of smoke + Compression is bad, m'kay.

Malakili, I had zero issues with any other boss, in fact, they were laughable. It wasn't even like I had to figure anything out about him. Just poor out damage.

[Malakili]

I'm fine with tough.

This was imposable. I clearly was being punished for not using the AH. I just called in a friend, he whooped him in less than 5 minutes. Then I got to watch the horribly compressed end movie. Lots of smoke + Compression is bad, m'kay.

Which character class?  I didn't twink my wizard at all and he took about 5 tries on the big guy (had to make no mistakes and manage my cooldowns really closely) and this was the hardest for sure. Also, what build were you using on whichever character you were playing?

[Miasma]

If you are taking a moral stand against even the gold AH it is assumed that you are the type of person who likes farming for gear and tedious difficulty.

You are just unusual in that you don't want high difficulty but are also unwilling to use the "I win" button.  At least buy a weapon.  And be sure to avoid those thorn cages, you don't have to be stuck in them.

[Ironwood]

I'm still confused.  I found the first Diablo fight utterly trivial, far too much so.

I suspect I probably gouged the AH then.  I barely remember.

[Mrbloodworth]

You are just unusual in that you don't want high difficulty

No, I want possibility. Not one, single boss fight before this gave me any indication it was going to be a problem.

[Malakili]

You are just unusual in that you don't want high difficulty

No, I want possibility. Not one, single boss fight before this gave me any indication it was going to be a problem.

Again, could you please tell us what class/build you were using?   Did you try changing builds after failing a couple of times?  *shrugs* It is just hard to believe "impossible" since literally no one else is saying it, that I can see.  I'm willing to believe you may have been going in with a really bad build and subpar gear, which put together might have made it very difficult.

[Hutch]

After failing a couple times is when he called in his buddy to administer the tactical strike.

[Rokal]

Again, could you please tell us what class/build you were using?   Did you try changing builds after failing a couple of times?  *shrugs* It is just hard to believe "impossible" since literally no one else is saying it, that I can see.  I'm willing to believe you may have been going in with a really bad build and subpar gear, which put together might have made it very difficult.

If he got shafted on weapon drops and didn't use the AH, I can very easily see the Diablo fight being close to if not impossible.

[Lightstalker]

If you've played a ranged character with high DPS and low life Diablo can be pretty rude.  Diablo has a few combos and negates range pretty effectively, the first five times I got there on my Demon Hunter I had 1500 life and just couldn't make it through the Realm of Tear-ROR.  I went to the AH (downgraded my DPS for extra vitality), changed up some abilities, and melted him without much issue at all.  RNG ability choice also contributes, the fight can be very different each time you attempt it.  The Diablo fight is a strange amalgam of every previous Diablo fight plus MMO-Raid style stupid phase progression.

It literally is like nothing that has come before, and the rest of the game can lead you into a playstyle that gets you abused without lube.

[jakonovski]

jesus fuck.

I was bound and determined to finish the game. Got to Diablo, called every plot point before I even installed the thing. Then get hit with a difficulty wall for the last boss? No indication before this. What a way to balance a game. The ramp between normal play, and Dibalo boss battle is seriously stupid. I'm waltzing through the 7 levels of hell like a hot knife on butter, then. Diablo, lord of the power-gamer.

I don't dislike myself enough to go though the game again to get yet another x4 power Diablo battle.  I can only imagine doing that battle on the hardest level is like trying to fight a hacker.

/end

At the end of normal my DH was not geared well enough to defeat Diablo. I AH'd and was basically immortal. This game has no difficulty, just gear checks.

[Mrbloodworth]

It literally is like nothing that has come before, and the rest of the game can lead you into a playstyle that gets you abused without lube.

You nailed it.

Nothing, NOTHING that comes before would have indicated my set up was wrong. Nothing. I was tearing through every bit of content before this fight. Yes, you guess right. I was using a Demon hunter with a high ( likely, OP due to my friend giving me a few +30 dex gems, plus my own + dex gems ) Dexterity and armor value. Partnered with a pet heavy witch doctor.

There was simply nothing, just like a Stephen king novel, that would have indicated the end battle. Its not that I had a moral objection to the AH, even if I do. It simply was never required.



Summary:

[Miasma]

I found Belial and Azmodan more difficult than Diablo my first normal mode playthrough.  I guess because I was melee so I had to run out of crap on the ground all the time.  Diablo was anti-climatic by comparison.

[Sjofn]

Belial was the only normal mode boss that I found difficult, and I wasn't particularly using the AH. Still haven't, once in a while I'll buy a weapon or a piece of armor if I notice I am lagging behind on it (aka "Oh hey, those boots are min level 22, maybe I should look for something for my level 43 ass"). Nightmare Diablo was a little hard (took me two or three tries I think). Haven't actually gotten to him on Hell, I don't particularly care for Hell difficulty. :P

[01101010]

Belial was the only normal mode boss that I found difficult, and I wasn't particularly using the AH. Still haven't, once in a while I'll buy a weapon or a piece of armor if I notice I am lagging behind on it (aka "Oh hey, those boots are min level 22, maybe I should look for something for my level 43 ass"). Nightmare Diablo was a little hard (took me two or three tries I think). Haven't actually gotten to him on Hell, I don't particularly care for Hell difficulty. :P

Now see, I think Hell is about where things should be in terms of difficulty. Normal was boring and Nightmare was swing 1 or 2 more times to kill the same mob in normal. Hell is when I had to start actually playing. But to each his(her) own.

[Rokal]

Hell was the sweet spot for me as well. If Hell had been balanced for 60 across-the-board and had sets/uniques in it, I think the game would have been much better. The inferno difficulty reaches the point where certain builds and item/stat values are required which is considerably less fun.

[Sjofn]

Hell is where I start to feel like "I gotta use x, y and z," which makes the skill system less fun. Normal is way too easy (although I won't lie, facerolling the shit out of things can be fun), nightmare is probably a bit too easy too, but Hell just feels kinda unfun for me right now.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

Hell was the sweet spot for me as well. If Hell had been balanced for 60 across-the-board and had sets/uniques in it, I think the game would have been much better. The inferno difficulty reaches the point where certain builds and item/stat values are required which is considerably less fun.

100% this. If Hell dropped a significant portion of the end-game loot, and Inferno was like 'crazy adventuretime' where you could, I dunno, get access to certain weird affixes on items, or awesome account-wide buffs for completing unusual challenges, or of course some of the ultra-uber gear -- that would feel so much more enjoyable. I am at the point where Act 1 Inferno is also pretty fun, difficulty-wise, but anything past that remains NNNG and I am getting really, really bored with running Act 1.

[Rokal]

100% this. If Hell dropped a significant portion of the end-game loot, and Inferno was like 'crazy adventuretime' where you could, I dunno, get access to certain weird affixes on items, or awesome account-wide buffs for completing unusual challenges, or of course some of the ultra-uber gear -- that would feel so much more enjoyable. I am at the point where Act 1 Inferno is also pretty fun, difficulty-wise, but anything past that remains NNNG and I am getting really, really bored with running Act 1.

Aside from bragging-rights rewards like achievements and banners, they could have just had the same loot table for hell & inferno but given inferno higher min/max potentials for modifiers on gear. As a Hell player I could still find an awesome 800 dps legendary weapon that makes my day, but an Inferno player might be able to find a 1000 dps version of the same weapon if they're lucky.

[Malakili]

Hell was the sweet spot for me as well. If Hell had been balanced for 60 across-the-board and had sets/uniques in it, I think the game would have been much better. The inferno difficulty reaches the point where certain builds and item/stat values are required which is considerably less fun.

100% this. If Hell dropped a significant portion of the end-game loot, and Inferno was like 'crazy adventuretime' where you could, I dunno, get access to certain weird affixes on items, or awesome account-wide buffs for completing unusual challenges, or of course some of the ultra-uber gear -- that would feel so much more enjoyable. I am at the point where Act 1 Inferno is also pretty fun, difficulty-wise, but anything past that remains NNNG and I am getting really, really bored with running Act 1.

Yeah, this would definitely be a better way.  Lots of people in Diablo 2 farmed plenty of good loot doing stuff like Nightmare Mephisto for example.  You couldn't get absolute top end gear from him, but he dropped enough good end game loot that he was worth doing.  Granted, loot was a bit different then, so there were quite a few of of not-quite-endgame (in terms of level) gear, that was actually best in slot or almost best in slot (things like Shaftstop), which could drop off NM bosses.  This was in part due to the unique stats, which seem a bit less prominent in D3.  Still, they have time to get the loot right.   

[Rendakor]

Belial was the only normal mode boss that I found difficult, and I wasn't particularly using the AH. Still haven't, once in a while I'll buy a weapon or a piece of armor if I notice I am lagging behind on it (aka "Oh hey, those boots are min level 22, maybe I should look for something for my level 43 ass"). Nightmare Diablo was a little hard (took me two or three tries I think). Haven't actually gotten to him on Hell, I don't particularly care for Hell difficulty. :P

Belial was the hardest boss for me on my first playthrough as well; I was duoing at the time (my Wizard, friend's Barb) and we just weren't expecting a WoW-level "get out of the fire" spam.

Regarding difficulty, I found Nightmare to be about right with Hell crossing the line from fun into annoying. In NM I could use almost all offensive abilities as a Wizard as long as I played carefully; in Hell the damage ramp up combined with deadly affix combos made me quit about halfway through Act 2.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, after my first playthrough on normal Belial wasn't a problem, just that first time through on my DH was hard (I wasn't using fake-vanish, I wasn't used to his giant hit box, etc).

[Strazos]

So is there really no way to play this "offline"? My DSL mostly works, but...I get crazy PL sometimes, and about 40% of the time it gets me killed.

I haven't even bothered to play with other live people yet, so it's infuriating to have a singleplayer game tied to ping.

[Ironwood]

lol?

[waffel]

So is there really no way to play this "offline"? My DSL mostly works, but...I get crazy PL sometimes, and about 40% of the time it gets me killed.

I haven't even bothered to play with other live people yet, so it's infuriating to have a singleplayer game tied to ping.

This is how you play diablo offline:
http://www.amazon.com/Diablo-2-mac-PC/dp/B00002CF9M

 

[Ironwood]

In that case, it's far better in offline mode.