Complaints, gripes, kvetches...

[Rokal]

Why is that bad design? They are specifically making it so they are nullifying a facet of cheese gameplay.

It's mostly a problem when you aren't trying to weave in and out of attacks: when you're just playing normally. The escape spell example I used is exactly what i'm talking about. Teleporting a screen away from an enemy and then getting hit by that enemies melee attack a second later feels broken. That's working as intended though to stop 'exploiting'. If an enemy starts its attack animation (even it's a frame that is not visibly different than that enemy's idle animation) you will get hit by it.

Many of Diablo 3's design decisions (boss loot sucking compared to rare/champion mobs) seem to be 'fixing' a part of the game most people never really participated in and breaking the game for everyone else.

[Fabricated]

I'm still using a now pretty crappy legendary helmet since it had a lot of magic find and a socket which I put more magic find in. I should really replace it but it looks cooler than the ridiculous mask things that are appropriate for my level.

[schild]

I have a complaint, what fucking update did I just download? What's the point of the launcher at all if it's not going to have fucking patch notes?

[K9]

This is Blizzards new policy of letting you discover patch notes for yourself! It's all part of the adventure.

[Azuredream]

I'm still using a now pretty crappy legendary helmet since it had a lot of magic find and a socket which I put more magic find in. I should really replace it but it looks cooler than the ridiculous mask things that are appropriate for my level.

You can buy vanishing dye pretty early (Act II normal is the earliest I think) that will hide the armor piece for you. I have it on my helm since it is very ugly.

[Miasma]

Those official forums are probably the third worst I've ever seen, or at least the general board is.  I guess since there is no monthly fee the raging nutjobs will be able to post there forever?

[Margalis]

I bet you think bunny hopping in FPS is a legit skill, too. I'm personally thrilled as a melee that I don't have to circle strafe mobs or worry about bouncing in combat just to live.

This is like the worst possible analogy.

Bunny hopping is a strategy that would completely fail in real life but works in games due to unintended rules interactions.

Moving out of range from someone trying to chop your arm off is a strategy that works in real life, and being hit by someone who is clearly too far away to actually hit you is unintuitive and only happens because of system quirks.

If someone has a pretty slow attack with low range and you move out of range that is hardly an exploit or gaming the system. It's what you would naturally do. Trying to get out of the way of someone trying to kill you is not "cheese" it's common sense. It's no more "cheese" than hiding behind cover in an FPS or jumping out of the path of an oncoming Goomba.

[Xanthippe]

You can be disappointed all you want but you can't proclaim failure or success. You aren't qualified.

The same goes for everyone on these forums, or most forums for that matter. Why are you posting again?

That's not the right question. The question is... what are the necessary qualification one has to achieve in order to declare a game as being a success or failure? The whole Diablo 3 fangasm has been pretty 'OK' so far on this forum, I'm nodding at some good and bad points and still withheld my purchase. But 'unqualified' to opine? What?

It was a reference to Rokal's defense of what he loved about WoW in the criticism thread over there. I could never really figure out why he felt compulsive about responding to any post in the criticism thread, or why he'd ever be reading it since he didn't seem to think criticism was warranted. (I shouldn't have brought that to this forum, so I dropped it.)

[Paelos]

Moving out of range from someone trying to chop your arm off is a strategy that works in real life, and being hit by someone who is clearly too far away to actually hit you is unintuitive and only happens because of system quirks.

I see. So in a game of demons swinging we're going to argue physics.

Two points about this. #1, using an escape method that instantly teleports you away from mobs doesn't work in real life either. Also, if somebody is running away from you as you're swinging back, you're not going to follow through. An intelligent person would stop, readjust and chase. But then again you're arguing real life in a game where my character in melee range can punch the skeletons out of demons.

[Trippy]

Jousting is a time-honored video game mechanic. I can understand, though, why Blizzard might want to get rid of it.

[Lakov_Sanite]

It does feel jarring to see a big mob not even finish his swing animation before my frost shield goes off and I take damage.

[Margalis]

I see. So in a game of demons swinging we're going to argue physics.

I guess you think Diablo universe has some midichlorian like magic shit where any time anyone tries to hit another person they take damage even if they clearly weren't hit, but everything else works the same?

Suspension of disbelief works for things like yeah, demons don't exist in real life but they do in a game. However demons that swing swords to attack you but you actually take damage even if they whiff, presumably because it's the thought of attacking that actually hurts you, and they swing just for the hell of it even though the actual swing is completely irrelevant, doesn't really make sense even given a fictional world.

You are being pointlessly pedantic. Lolz in real life there aren't demons, therefore in the world of Diablo error 37 makes perfect sense! It's demons blocking you from invading their realm!!!!

I think it's fair to assume that in the fiction of Diablo the way you injure people is to hit them with weapons, not to think about hitting them with weapons.

[Rasix]

For fuck's sake. Enough.

[Ironwood]

I have a complaint, what fucking update did I just download? What's the point of the launcher at all if it's not going to have fucking patch notes?

Is everyone else getting a LOT of updates or is mine just redownloading the same fucking shit every time I want to play and at a snails pace too ?

[Sir Fodder]

I got the mystery update earlier but none since, just started it up, its up to date.

Yeah shitty communications, how long have the commodity auctions been down?

I hate the blinky inventory button too.

Can't get too worked up about non-gameplay stuff but I'm sorta gripey about the cutscenes, they wouldn't be bad for a Disney type movie, big production but sort of overblown and tired. The ones from D1 and D2 were so weird and awesome: the swinging doors and campy horror of D1 plus the shocking scene of the stranger jamming the crystal into his head. The expansion scene from D2 where the weirdly mincing fellow gets splatted, most excellent. The Marius ones from D2 blew me away, he was so freaked out, I think the scene where he is spying on the prime evils before the gate he is supposed to go into is the greatest cutscene ever "a sight no mortal eyes should ever see!" haha.

[Malakili]

I see. So in a game of demons swinging we're going to argue physics.

I guess you think Diablo universe has some midichlorian like magic shit where any time anyone tries to hit another person they take damage even if they clearly weren't hit, but everything else works the same?

Suspension of disbelief works for things like yeah, demons don't exist in real life but they do in a game. However demons that swing swords to attack you but you actually take damage even if they whiff, presumably because it's the thought of attacking that actually hurts you, and they swing just for the hell of it even though the actual swing is completely irrelevant, doesn't really make sense even given a fictional world.

You are being pointlessly pedantic. Lolz in real life there aren't demons, therefore in the world of Diablo error 37 makes perfect sense! It's demons blocking you from invading their realm!!!!

I think it's fair to assume that in the fiction of Diablo the way you injure people is to hit them with weapons, not to think about hitting them with weapons.

Video games do things they don't make sense from a real life perspective all the time for gameplay reasons.  They've said this is one of those.  If you don't like the mechanic as it relates to gameplay, then make that argument.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I think diablo3 is making me swear off online games.

Let that statement sink in.

[Azuredream]

I can't dye set items.  

edit: I guess it's legendary items of all kinds according to Google. This is irritating. Anything that limits choices is almost never good.

[Khaldun]

Performance today is just awful.

When the AH *is* up, it's full of "This text should be replaced by game data" listings.

[Ratman_tf]

I got the mystery update earlier but none since, just started it up, its up to date.

Yeah shitty communications, how long have the commodity auctions been down?

I hate the blinky inventory button too.

Can't get too worked up about non-gameplay stuff but I'm sorta gripey about the cutscenes, they wouldn't be bad for a Disney type movie, big production but sort of overblown and tired. The ones from D1 and D2 were so weird and awesome: the swinging doors and campy horror of D1 plus the shocking scene of the stranger jamming the crystal into his head. The expansion scene from D2 where the weirdly mincing fellow gets splatted, most excellent. The Marius ones from D2 blew me away, he was so freaked out, I think the scene where he is spying on the prime evils before the gate he is supposed to go into is the greatest cutscene ever "a sight no mortal eyes should ever see!" haha.

Just so. D1 and D2 were knocking on the door of gothic weird horror type stuff. D3 is less about the creeping horror and more about angels and demons fighting each other with superpowers.

[El Gallo]

Can't get too worked up about non-gameplay stuff but I'm sorta gripey about the cutscenes, they wouldn't be bad for a Disney type movie, big production but sort of overblown and tired. The ones from D1 and D2 were so weird and awesome: the swinging doors and campy horror of D1 plus the shocking scene of the stranger jamming the crystal into his head. The expansion scene from D2 where the weirdly mincing fellow gets splatted, most excellent. The Marius ones from D2 blew me away, he was so freaked out, I think the scene where he is spying on the prime evils before the gate he is supposed to go into is the greatest cutscene ever "a sight no mortal eyes should ever see!" haha.

"What . . . choice did I have?  I ran."

D3 ones just fall so far short.

[Ironwood]

Performance today is just awful.

When the AH *is* up, it's full of "This text should be replaced by game data" listings.

Today, for the first time, 80ms and solid as a rock.

It's a first for Europe.

[Setanta]

Ok, so I decided to play Blizzard's game of "upgrade from the AH not from gameplay". Bought two handbows 2 levels below me (26). Had to read on the forums how to claim them. Then read that even though you buy them out, they don't "complete" instantaneously and that some people are waiting 48 hours for "completion" off buyouts. Is this for real? I could put another couple of levels on by then and the items would be worthless. :(

[Xanthippe]

Ok, so I decided to play Blizzard's game of "upgrade from the AH not from gameplay". Bought two handbows 2 levels below me (26). Had to read on the forums how to claim them. Then read that even though you buy them out, they don't "complete" instantaneously and that some people are waiting 48 hours for "completion" off buyouts. Is this for real? I could put another couple of levels on by then and the items would be worthless. :(

I have not had that problem. I buy something and it appears within 2 minutes usually. Twice I had to wait about a half hour because the AH was buggy and it was taken down. Then when it came back up my stuff was there.

[Arinon]

The AH has been really buggy and unresponsive for me today.  Auctions of mine timing out and not getting the item back, buying stuff but not seeing it in the completion list, and when it does it times out when I try to send it to my stash.  Hasn't been like that before.  I assume it's temporary nonsense and the weekend is making it worse.

[Phred]

Let just agree to disagree on WoW, Maledict. One mans innovation is another mans iteration. Nothing you mentioned is anything put polishing proven concepts.

I know you're trying to back away from your ridiculous claim but this can't go unchallenged. Name the games that proved these concepts you claim weren't innovated by WoW.

To refesh your memory here's the list of features from Maledict's post

Erm, it completely rewrote how the genre works?

Questing to max level?
Viable soloing for all classes?
Random drops off all mobs?
Moddable interface?
Completely redesigned the raid paradigm? (go play PoP or GoD and then run Onyxia)
Scaling damage for casters?
Talent specs? (and Respeccing!)
Complete removal of camping?
Dungeon crawls?
Fully instanced content?

[Shatter]

The AH all night has been at a standstill.  Bought 2 items, took the cash but nothing I can claim.  Items I try to send to stash sit there.  I would try and buy some lube but it wouldnt show up anyhow so I guess Ill have to take it dry :P

[Phred]

So on the drop system, as I plod through hell:

I have a feeling they adjusted the leveling curve at some point and didn't match the drops to it. In Normal and most of NM, the beginning of normal I got drops I couldn't use yet due to level. Past act 1 that turned to always getting drops 3-5 levels below me. This continued until Act 4 NM, where I started getting things a level above me, and Hell I've started getting things -1 to +5 of my level.

It's just screaming to me that they mucked with the leveling curve a bit, and forgot to change the item drop levels when they did it. I'm constantly finding useful things in Hell, which I never found before then.

Actually they did from what I saw in beta. After one patch where they oddly didnt wipe characters A lot of the rares I'd got from skelly king runs were suddenly unwearable as they required about 4 more levels than they had previously. Also, they made the exp gain slower as when I started beta a complete clear to the sk would have my char at 13 or so but by release it was down to maybe L9 or 10.

[Khaldun]

AH is totally broken but they've left it up. Stay away for now.

[Rokal]

If the AH seems 'frozen' (items not moving to stash, bought items not appearing), try relogging. That worked for me for both selling and buying.

[Sjofn]

I know you're trying to back away from your ridiculous claim but this can't go unchallenged. Name the games that proved these concepts you claim weren't innovated by WoW.

To refesh your memory here's the list of features from Maledict's post

Erm, it completely rewrote how the genre works?

Questing to max level?
Complete removal of camping?
Dungeon crawls?
Fully instanced content?

You could argue these four things were "proven" in CoH, although it did have some mission gaps and you COULD do nothing but street sweeping all day to cap instead at release (and when it got nerfed, people bitched up a storm). You might not consider the various mission maps "dungeon crawls," though. Those were definitely instanced, though!

[Merusk]

They were proven in CoH, but it's not like WOW saw COH and incorporated them into the design.  COH wasn't even on their radar when it was released much less years afterward.  (Proven by Blizzard's inability to steal their awesome LFG tool.) 

WoW's questing to max was in direct response to the complaint all you did was camp & grind in EQ and possibly that there weren't enough quests in DAOC.  Ditto the dungeon crawls & instanced dungeons/ raids being responses to major complaints about EQ. 

[Xanthippe]

Ok, so I decided to play Blizzard's game of "upgrade from the AH not from gameplay". Bought two handbows 2 levels below me (26). Had to read on the forums how to claim them. Then read that even though you buy them out, they don't "complete" instantaneously and that some people are waiting 48 hours for "completion" off buyouts. Is this for real? I could put another couple of levels on by then and the items would be worthless. :(

I have not had that problem. I buy something and it appears within 2 minutes usually. Twice I had to wait about a half hour because the AH was buggy and it was taken down. Then when it came back up my stuff was there.

I should have known better to post this. Last night, I bought 2 items. They didn't appear for more than a half hour. I went to bed. They are there now. I don't know when they arrived - some time in the last 9 hours.

[Xanthippe]

So on the drop system, as I plod through hell:

I have a feeling they adjusted the leveling curve at some point and didn't match the drops to it. In Normal and most of NM, the beginning of normal I got drops I couldn't use yet due to level. Past act 1 that turned to always getting drops 3-5 levels below me. This continued until Act 4 NM, where I started getting things a level above me, and Hell I've started getting things -1 to +5 of my level.

It's just screaming to me that they mucked with the leveling curve a bit, and forgot to change the item drop levels when they did it. I'm constantly finding useful things in Hell, which I never found before then.

Actually they did from what I saw in beta. After one patch where they oddly didnt wipe characters A lot of the rares I'd got from skelly king runs were suddenly unwearable as they required about 4 more levels than they had previously. Also, they made the exp gain slower as when I started beta a complete clear to the sk would have my char at 13 or so but by release it was down to maybe L9 or 10.

I don't think people level at the same rate, which might have something to do with it. You can blast through Acts or you can explore every dungeon or you can wear Experience % gear or any combination of these and end up at different levels than you would otherwise.

What I find a little weird is that I get drops at a wide range - for example from level 38 to level 51 in Hell, Act I. The 38 was a rare if that matters and I only got one. Mostly I got mid- to late-40s stuff. (I've been doing a lot of fooling around, exploring, so I'm now 55 at the beginning of Act II Hell - plus I leveled with exp% gear most of the way through).

[Cheddar]

I feel like I am playing a beta is gripe #1.  Which would be fine- if it was not for the God Awful Latency (gripe #2).

Outside prime hours things run smooth.  Unfortunately my play time is pretty much limited to primetime. 

I have had fun and feel I got my money worth, but thinking I may put this on back burner for a week or two and wait for the miracle patch.