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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  RIFT  |  Topic: 1.9: Three faction PvP 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: 1.9: Three faction PvP  (Read 5285 times)
Rokal
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on: May 15, 2012, 12:41:18 AM

http://community.riftgame.com/en/2012/05/14/introducing-conquest-test-the-latest-in-rift-pvp-on-thursday-517/

Short version:

-Large open-world style PvP map (a modified Stillmoor)
-Cross-server
-Pick one of three new factions, sounds like it doesn't care about or impact your 'normal' faction
-Map designed for the three teams to compete
-Capture & Hold gameplay, first team to 5k kills or 40% control starts a 10-minute timer after which the battle ends
-Crafters and questers contribute to defenses similar to old AV

I don't know if you'd truly consider it 3-faction pvp but we'll what additional details surface. Maybe faction choices will have some permanence and it will amount to something more than 3-team pvp. Pretty neat concept though, nice to see a dev taking another crack at the large-scale battleground style of old AV, even if I'm still not fond of gear-based PvP.
Falconeer
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Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 07:54:13 AM

This is huge. The game is not dead at all and while GW2 will probably murder it, this is great news. Now, considering everyone has been repeating since 2002 or so that PvP always had to have 3 or more sides, what has been wrong with MMO devs in the last decade, and what happened all of a sudden that broke the curse and cleared their obfuscated minds?

One last comment: this is the final kick in the nuts to SWTOR.

dd0029
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Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 09:41:51 AM

http://community.riftgame.com/en/2012/05/14/introducing-conquest-test-the-latest-in-rift-pvp-on-thursday-517/
I don't know if you'd truly consider it 3-faction pvp but we'll what additional details surface. Maybe faction choices will have some permanence and it will amount to something more than 3-team pvp. Pretty neat concept though, nice to see a dev taking another crack at the large-scale battleground style of old AV, even if I'm still not fond of gear-based PvP.

There is the note: "You will be able to change factions" in regards to the three teams.

I have a couple of questions.  First, how will they handle the gear discrepancies? The ranked battles have been really handy for that. World PvP at the moment is not worth your time if you are on the down side of the gear divide.

Second, what, beyond the pvp, is the driver here? If it's just gear, then you get the one and done mentality that is the current r40 path. Some sorts of compelling consumables are the only thing I can think of, but I'm not sure what that would be.

Maybe they will use something from the new zone events where you turn into either the guardian saint or the defiant robot. Those are some fun implementations of vehicle combat, vaguely reminiscent of riding a storm giant.
Rokal
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Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 11:22:58 AM

There is the note: "You will be able to change factions" in regards to the three teams.

Right, but how frequently? Is it just a faction that you are randomly matched into to balance teams? Is it a faction you can change at will?

If there is something like, say, a 1-week or longer cooldown on changing factions, the system will feel a bit deeper than auto-fill teams. You'll see faction pride and friendships/rivalries forming.
dd0029
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Reply #4 on: May 16, 2012, 09:05:26 AM

There are some notes now:

CONQUEST
* An early version of Conquest is now on PTS for testing! At this point, Conquest will only be accessible when specifically enabled for a playtest.
* Align yourself with one of the three warring groups – the Dominion, the Oathsworn, or the Nightfall, and join three-way cross-shard conflict in a contested sliver of Stillmoor.
* Capture, defend, and enhance conflict points to not only control the region but also gain access to bonuses and resources for your team.
* Fight Colossi on the field of battle to demonstrate your power and gain additional buffs.
* The Conquest Bar displays your current Conquest bonuses and can be found in the ‘K’ menu under Conquest.
* For those looking to contribute in ways other than direct combat, gather Sourcestone resources and use them to create beneficial effects that help everyone in your faction. These resources can be deposited in a depot inside your base where other crafters can also process them.
* New crafting recipes for use during Conquest are now available on the trainers in Sanctum and Meridian.
* Matches begin to lock down when a single team claims 40% of the control points, or when 5,000 deaths have taken place in the match; at that point a 10 minute timer will begin for a last chance at rallying your troops!


MENTORING
* New Mentoring system allows you to set your character’s level below what it actually is, whether you’re on your own or playing with a lower-level character.
* Mentoring is available for characters of level 11+ and you can only reduce your current level, not increase it.
* The new Set Ascended Mentor Level menu option now appears when right clicking your own character portrait. You can choose what level you’d like to set your character to from this option.
* When right-clicking the portrait of another character, the menu option to set your mentor level to the target’s level appears.
* While mentoring, your stats, abilities, regeneration, etc. will be temporarily reduced in line with the target level.
* Grouped characters using mentoring will receive bonus experience as long as the character with the lower natural level remains within 2 levels of the mentor and the mentor remains at least 5 levels below their natural level.

PRESTIGE RANKS / ARMOR
* Prestige Ranks are now increased to 50!
* The added ranks offer new milestone titles and additional Planar Attunement bonus experience when attained – 2 Planar Attunement levels worth for each rank.
* A new set of PvP Armor is now available in line with the Prestige Rank increase.
* Increased the effect of Bolstering in line with the addition of new PvP gear. Warfront Bolstering is now applied to all characters up to rank 25.
* PTS NOTE: The new rank set armor is temporarily using the previous set’s appearances on PTS.
Nebu
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Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 10:23:43 AM

While I like the idea of 3-sided realm pvp, it seems silly this late in the game.  They don't have a large enough population to support 2-team pvp.  Now they're going to splinter it into 3?  Ugh. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Rokal
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Reply #6 on: May 22, 2012, 02:39:05 PM

It's one particular map/game mode and it'll be cross-server. Population probably won't be an issue. I can't say I've done a lot of warzones lately, but last time I checked the queue for those was still short (especially with the mercenaries system to balance factions).
Xanthippe
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Reply #7 on: June 23, 2012, 12:43:54 PM

You guys need to post this stuff on the Rift thread, not hide it way deep inside the graveyard!

(Admins- Why is Rift even in the graveyard? It's still a viable game!)  Tantrum

Pennilenko
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Reply #8 on: June 23, 2012, 02:08:42 PM

(Admins- Why is Rift even in the graveyard? It's still a viable game!)  Tantrum

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH......Ha

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Threash
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Reply #9 on: June 23, 2012, 08:03:11 PM

You guys need to post this stuff on the Rift thread, not hide it way deep inside the graveyard!

(Admins- Why is Rift even in the graveyard? It's still a viable game!)  Tantrum



Cause the forums went several months with barely any posts probably, i was still playing back then and i thought i was the only one.

I am the .00000001428%
luckton
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Reply #10 on: June 24, 2012, 01:28:37 PM

You guys need to post this stuff on the Rift thread, not hide it way deep inside the graveyard!

(Admins- Why is Rift even in the graveyard? It's still a viable game!)  Tantrum



Viable around here means more than 10+ active posters are still playing/have interest in the topic and post more frequently than once a week.  Otherwise, yeah, it's dead, Jim.  Everything here in the yard fits that description, although the MtG and Digi Pen/Paper are starting to break those rules.

Truly the question is: Why hasn't the SWG and Titan Quest subforums been nuked?  Those games really are dead.   why so serious?

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Lantyssa
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Reply #11 on: June 24, 2012, 02:50:02 PM

Posterity.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Redgiant
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Reply #12 on: June 26, 2012, 02:16:38 AM

MMOs today still don't get it. They don't get that the 3 sides is merely one good idea part of the whole that made DAoC RvR work for so many for so long.

- DAoC had persistent open-world state that only changed when players changed it; not yet another "Ding timer's up!" scoreboard. Occasionally they would reset the relics, but it was by and large 24x7 open world.

- DAoC had 3 sides with entirely different races, classes, cultures and geographic area to call thier own. The idea of the others being your enemy was naturally reinforced by all these factors. Now we have a three bunches of the same people from the same lands (maybe just different copies of those same lands), which is of course not immersive in the same sense of DAoC, more like just a technical population ploy to get numbers involved up.

- DAoC had stable populations who got to know the best and most dangerous players personally, from your own realm as well as the top enemies to watch out for, individuals, groups or guilds. A Hibernian elf did not switch over to become a Midgaard troll. Now they just want bodies, stable reputation and enemy history be damned. These are nothing like the world at war simulation of DAoC.

Until someone has the balls to create a world that incorporates the aspects like these, then it is just an ulterior motive play to calculatedly attract poeple hungry for this. it won't last; MMOs have forgotten how to remain relevant for years. It comes down to the player caring about the realm and world around them, not just running around spouting "Hey Dude", "Hey Bro" all day to inflate their egos and be heard in chat channels.

A FUCKING COMPANY IS AT STEAK
Numtini
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Reply #13 on: June 26, 2012, 08:30:51 AM

I really don't get the entire 3 side thing for Rift, unless they're also going to eliminate the division between Guardian and Defiant. The latter would be a very good thing. I've never thought the WoW-esque entire completely separate factions was a good idea.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Zetor
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Reply #14 on: June 26, 2012, 08:39:28 AM

The Defiant/Guardian split (at least in pvp) is already eroded pretty heavily thanks to the mercenary system.

I've been playing Rift recently, and it's really come a long way... I'd say it's perhaps the most solid non-WOW diku on the market currently.

Rokal
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Reply #15 on: June 27, 2012, 10:07:39 PM

The scavanger hunt part of the summer world event is pretty awesome.
Numtini
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Reply #16 on: June 29, 2012, 09:42:51 AM

I just got into an instant adventure and it mentored me down 10 levels. It's fantastic. Seems really well balanced and the rewards are great.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
dd0029
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Reply #17 on: June 29, 2012, 10:04:12 AM

The mentoring is really cool unless the IA is borked. There are a couple collect x quests where there aren't enough of whatever it is to spawn.

Not so shot with the Conquest.  First, in my group for some reason the Oathsworn team wins every time. Most likely because they are full in a second because they win all the time. Dominion fills up a bit later and poor Nightfall is left to be farmed in their spawn by the both of the other teams in turn.

Additionally, the beginning and end of a game drags the whole deal down. Don't even think about engaging an instance/raid boss with fiddly mechanics right when the game starts or in the 10 minutes after one ends while the planar boss is being killed.  Was working in the new sliver last night and working on the first boss, anytime a game ended, hello 3 second lag which is a killer on that fight.
Tannhauser
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Reply #18 on: June 29, 2012, 03:41:08 PM

I did a Silverwood IA last night, dropped me from 32 to 16.  Was fun.  Did the maze and the scavenger hunt is great.  This is a good fucking patch.
Xanthippe
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Reply #19 on: June 29, 2012, 09:10:27 PM

The mentoring is really cool unless the IA is borked. There are a couple collect x quests where there aren't enough of whatever it is to spawn.

Not so shot with the Conquest.  First, in my group for some reason the Oathsworn team wins every time. Most likely because they are full in a second because they win all the time. Dominion fills up a bit later and poor Nightfall is left to be farmed in their spawn by the both of the other teams in turn.

Additionally, the beginning and end of a game drags the whole deal down. Don't even think about engaging an instance/raid boss with fiddly mechanics right when the game starts or in the 10 minutes after one ends while the planar boss is being killed.  Was working in the new sliver last night and working on the first boss, anytime a game ended, hello 3 second lag which is a killer on that fight.

Do you ever have the option to change factions?
Hawkbit
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Reply #20 on: June 29, 2012, 10:59:11 PM

I just did a whole level from just shy of 38 to almost 39 in less than an hour in IA.  It's a lot of fun, and a ton better than slogging through quests that I don't particularly enjoy.  I don't have a 50, however.  This is still my first character.
dd0029
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Reply #21 on: June 30, 2012, 08:31:51 AM

Do you ever have the option to change factions?

Right when the game starts, you pick your faction then you que. Oathsworn, the best starting spot, fills up in literally about a second. Dominion fills up in maybe two seconds and Nightfall remains open for maybe a minute for people not hopped up on crack who missed the other teams.

The only thing that really gets me is that you can't que once the teams have filled up. There needs to be an option to just que and be auto assigned a team when a spot opens after a match has started.

They should really just auto assign teams as it is, because there's no difference in the rewards available between the factions. The factions are a shirts and skins type deal. All three have quartermasters, but all they sell are the same pvp new lesser essences, the new pvp trinkets and oddly the neck piece and a new glove enchant.

They also sell the conquest only crafting recipies. The crafting is kind of neat in that they use the shared resource pool. The mats are these stones that spawn around the extractors. You pick them up and then run them back to your camp where the crafters can use them to craft team buffs. The buffs are neat. They are 1/2% per stack for damage, healing, damage reduction and runspeed. There is also a +100 HP per stack buff. They take 150 of the resources per buff to create then it applies to the whole team and you get about 5-11 resources per thingee you pickup, so if someone doesn't want to pvp much, they can run around harvesting the resources and still contribute.

But honestly, you want to find one of your zergs and stick with it. The favor, prestige and XP flows really well. I went from r40-43 with maybe 8-9 matches since Wednesday. I also got enough favor to buy the new pants, the new chest piece a new ring and all of my available crafting recipies. Favor capping in a match is actually something to pay attention to if you get with a good zerg.
dd0029
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Reply #22 on: July 18, 2012, 04:54:19 PM

Well, they are on iteration three now of conquest.

Someone on the forums hit the nail on the head when they said "This change pretty much puts the exclamation mark on the sentence stating that players in Rift's PvP community are motivated primarily by the carrot."

The crazy farming of the first weekend was stopped in v2, but they nerfed the favor gain fairly significantly in v2. The p50 gear is insanely expensive so the player base adapted to giant zerg on zerg action to maximize favor gain again.

In v3 we see the devs trying to force the players clearly uninterested in the vision into the vision by nerfing all of the carrots. There seems to be a really big disconnect between whomever is making decisions on the pvp side when compared to the pve side. In this same hotfix, they are boosting pve rewards for the mentored IA feature.
Xanthippe
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Reply #23 on: July 19, 2012, 10:20:33 AM

That doesn't sound fun.

Do they have the equivalent of cave dweller/favor suckers yet?
dd0029
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Reply #24 on: July 19, 2012, 11:56:53 AM

That died off fairly early in WFs and it does not really work in Conquest as favor is not shared like it is in the WFs or it was in AV. You have to get a tap/assist/heal or oddly be dead near the fight to get favor or prestige which is the genesis of the conquest zerg.
dd0029
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Reply #25 on: August 14, 2012, 02:34:00 PM

Not really 1.9, but I would imagine an outgrowth of 1.9 mentoring.

They are going to pretest stat normalization in pvp. Perhaps the more interesting thing is that the actual test will be when they run it for a week on the live servers to get live data.
01101010
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You call it an accident. I call it justice.


Reply #26 on: August 14, 2012, 02:43:21 PM

They are going to pretest stat normalization in pvp. Perhaps the more interesting thing is that the actual test will be when they run it for a week on the live servers to get live data.

Tommy Two-Times'ing this because...  ACK!

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Rokal
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Reply #27 on: August 14, 2012, 02:44:20 PM

Pretty awesome that they're willing/able to try something like this out. It would certainly make me more interested in PvP if it was based on skill or teamwork rather than gear. Long-term, I think it would probably reduce participation as you'd have no reason to continue playing once you got bored of the matches themselves. The gear grind is a powerful incentive.
Lantyssa
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Reply #28 on: August 14, 2012, 03:02:10 PM

Pretty awesome that a dev team understands that normalization in DIKU-PvP might be important.  I hope it works so well that they keep it.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Zetor
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Reply #29 on: August 14, 2012, 03:24:08 PM

Sadly, what I think will happen is that warfront/conquest populations will plummet sharply as the masses realize that you get no tangible rewards from PVPing anymore other than "fun" - no 'carrot' ("I'm doing bad at pvp now, but if I persevere for a few more weeks I'll have my ilevel x rank y suit, and THEN I will wtfpwn people!") or 'stick' ("I got my ilevel x rank y suit, time to pwn some noobs without them being able to fight back!"). DIKU mentality, it's easier to patch a game than your playerbase, etc etc.

I would like to be proven wrong... I really, really hope this works out for them.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 03:36:01 PM by Zetor »

dd0029
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Reply #30 on: August 14, 2012, 03:35:48 PM

If this recaptures the leveling WF feel, I'll be all over it. Those were some of the best times in PvP.
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