Kickstarter - The Thread.

[Vaiti]

I'm really loving it, started using it as a speaker replacement for my laptop. I only have one, so not stereo, but I guess I can't tell, because it sounds great to me. Clean and loud.
Girlfriend notices the lack of stereo used this way, but she is also hypersensitive to sound at the moment. If you have two you can hook them up (not wirelessly unfortunately, damn) and they will auto setup for stereo. Seems a 2Q version is also in the works which comes as a single unit.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1969365167/bluetube-audio-vacuum-tube-amplifier-with-built-in
This kickstarter just popped up but I'm not 100% convinced by the makers just yet, and whooooo buddy. The price. Oh god. I guess I'm not a big enough audiofile to justify the price on this mammoth. It is oh so pretty. And old school vacuum tubes always look spiffy. But I'm better you can easily find a simular solution for what this is meant for at a saner price point. Just might not be as pretty.

[Sky]

Kingdom Death is doing a game: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/poots/kingdom-death-monster

Basically, you awaken in the darkness in a horror world, with a lamp and a basic weapon. You build up a settlement which you tech up, this give you armor/weapons/etc. You face monsters that use an AI deck. It's mini-based and the minis for the survivors (players) are interchangable. So when you tech up rawhide armor and craft a helmet, you can put the rawhide helmet head on your dude.

Sounds interesting to me, and KD are some of the highest quality minis in sculpt and concept.

[Sky]

Apparently Paizo is doing a Pathfinder mmo. Looks like some CCP/Cryptic folks behind it.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-a-fantasy-sandbox-mmo

[JWIV]

Apparently Paizo is doing a Pathfinder mmo. Looks like some CCP/Cryptic folks behind it.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-a-fantasy-sandbox-mmo

Yes - this is the result of the kickstarter they did - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-technology-demo?ref=live

So they have successfully kickstarted a kickstarter and are now going back to the same fanbase for more money.  I wonder just how many times the fanbase is going to buy this stupid game.

[UnSub]

Apparently Paizo is doing a Pathfinder mmo. Looks like some CCP/Cryptic folks behind it.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-a-fantasy-sandbox-mmo

Yes - this is the result of the kickstarter they did - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-technology-demo?ref=live

So they have successfully kickstarted a kickstarter and are now going back to the same fanbase for more money.  I wonder just how many times the fanbase is going to buy this stupid game.

Agreed. Especially since the point of the investor demo was to attract investors so they could finish the project, but now they're back for crowdmoney to finish the project. Perhaps investors weren't that thrilled by the tech demo.

Watching that footage gave me a Shadowbane vibe. And my pay-for-beta sense is tingling.

[Ard]

Pay for beta for a free to play game, and at more than the going rate for a game.  I expect the tears of outrage to be epic when this game ultimately craters before launch by all the people who were stupid enough to get bilked more than once.  This unfortunately includes a few of my friends who I've tried to talk down away from this.  It just bugs me that people can't even do 5 minutes of due diligence on this before throwing in money.  It's not like they don't outright list the names of everyone involved in this mess.

I'll be shocked if this isn't pulled in a few weeks when they get no where near their million dollar goal.

edit:
Okay, part of me just got a real tin foil hatty vibe.  I'm almost wondering if they're asking for a million so that when they don't make it, they can go to their original kickstarter investors, and whoever they were able to bilk out of additional funding and go "whoops, sorry, not enough demand or money, going to have to stop", and just walk away with the money they did make.   

[schild]

Kickstarting video games is still ridiculous to me.

[Thrawn]

I backed FTL, got a great game a few months later.  Very happy with it.

I think the problem is most people can't read past hype and marketing so Kickstarters for games that are all flash and no substance get huge backing amounts and are likely to flop.  But then again I guess that's all of Kickstarter...look at the Ouya. 

[Nightblade]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/talesofgames/barkley-2-an-rpg-sequel-to-barkley-shut-up-and-jam

No words.

[schild]

Barkley was awesome so this makes sense.

[UnSub]

I backed FTL, got a great game a few months later.  Very happy with it.

I think the problem is most people can't read past hype and marketing so Kickstarters for games that are all flash and no substance get huge backing amounts and are likely to flop.  But then again I guess that's all of Kickstarter...look at the Ouya. 

FTL is an example of the perfect title to back in a Kickstarter though. The development team had been working on it for a long time and entering it in contests. The money was to finish the game and polish it, not to start it. It was a closed concept game, not pipe dreams. There are very few Kickstarted video games like that.

I spent a long time doing analysis on Kickstarter delivery rates and from 2009 to 2011 the answer is about 1 in 3 Kickstarter titles actually get released. Only 5 have cancelled themselves; the rest exist as vapourware that the devs still insist they are working on. High Strangeness is the best example of this - it was the very first Kickstarted video game ever, back in 2009, and it still hasn't some out. The dev insists he's still planning to release it though.

[Vaiti]

I've backed four video games.

FTL, Double Fine Adventure , Zombie Playground and Project Eternity

100% confident on three of those releasing, one of which already did. Zombie Playground may very well never see the light of day. Heard literally nothing from them since funded.

[Fabricated]

I backed Project Eternity, Takedown (my worst choice honestly), Shadowrun Returns, and The Banner Saga. I don't particularly regret it.

[Lantyssa]

Wasteland 2, Shadow Run Returns, and RSI.  I regret none of them.  There's little else I'm likely to back.

[Fabricated]

Here's a great example of what kickstarter can do:


~1 year later~

[Merusk]

I've heard of that idea before, and even had a mac & cheese cupcake.  It's decent party or event food but there's no way in hell I can see anyone eating it on a regular basis. 

More shocking than the 'failure' is the "Never been used!" on the oven.  Wtf?

[Zetor]

Looks like a one-year investment of $12k at 0% interest to me - of other people's money, mind.  

[Fabricated]

Looks like a one-year investment of $12k at 0% interest to me - of other people's money, mind. 

Seems like it.



Grats contributors. You paid for a cart that did nothing then was sold by the owner for $12,000.

[Sky]

Not to mention it's that modern 'glue some cogs on shit' that passes for steampunk these days. Lazy steampunk really irritates me for some reason.

[Paelos]

I still can't believe this Kickstarter thing attracts people. You risk your money on magic beans that you don't own.

[Sky]

Depends on the beans and who is making them.

[Paelos]

Depends on the beans and who is making them.

It really doesn't. If they want money, they need to either get a loan or give up equity. If they want to sell product, they should just make it and sell it. This is some bizarre in between that seems rife for misuse and abuse of the people fronting the cash.

In fact, Kickstarter went as far to post THIS after NPR raised serious questions about this issue. Kickstarter, in so many words, says that you're firing your money into the dark and hoping for the best. You get no refunds and no guarantees. Nowhere is the creator legally required by Kickstarter to do anything with your money once they get it, short of "damaging your reputation or possible legal action from your backers." Kickstarter will take no action, nor will they assist the backers. They don't do anything. It's the dumbest type of buyer beware out there.

[Sky]

Ok. So don't back things on KS?

Like I said, it depends on the beans and who's making them. Don't back shady projects.

[Viin]

It really doesn't. If they want money, they need to either get a loan or give up equity. If they want to sell product, they should just make it and sell it. This is some bizarre in between that seems rife for misuse and abuse of the people fronting the cash.

I agree with you generally, but there is also some great stuff on there. Small business ideas are hard to fund via loans, and by the time they are good enough to get on kickstarter they usually have a lot of personal funds/loans in the project already. If they don't, I wouldn't "pledge to purchase one of the first run products".  Its not an investment, it is a commitment to buy one of the first items they produce, using my pre-order dollars to make sure the product is created at consumer-quality levels.

So far, I've gotten everything I've expected from Kickstarter (4 finished projects so far). No projects have gone "bankrupt" on me.

Why would you back a kickstarter so someone can make a wagon for themselves? That's stupid.

I do agree with you though - I would like to see a kickstarter-like site that lets me invest in small businesses in $100 increments. Though I don't think the SEC allows that.

[Quinton]

It seems to work best (and be least risky) for projects that have already been designed and prototyped, but need a chunk of upfront funding to make manufacturing feasible.  Books, miniatures, board games, etc, assuming the folks running the project are competent and have correctly scoped costs, tend to work out pretty well.  Hardware/manufacturing projects can be a lot hairier due to complexity -- I strongly suspect the Pebble guys will ship, but they're running way behind their original estimated schedules and from the photos, I don't think the tooling and material quality is going to blow anybody away.

Extremely open-ended work like complex software projects is a much bigger roll of the dice.  I've seen well-funded, generally competent professional software teams completely blow their schedule over and over again.  Expecting that a random kickstarter "backer" can hope to make an informed decision about the ability of a software team to deliver a product that's barely a prototype, or possibly just a presentation at the point of the kickstarter is kinda nuts.

I've been looking at the "Risks" section they're now requiring and most of what I'm seeing is pretty laughable as far as realistic risk assessments...

[Paelos]

My problem is not with the idea, it's the hands-off copout of Kickstarter to even make an attempt at policing the process, or vetting out potential submissions, even though they get a cut from the fundings. Essentially, Kickstarter is taking 5% for running a website and saying GOOD LUCK!

[Merusk]

Ah, Fab, you're a better internet detective than I was.  I had a snarky thought after reading the closing announcement on KS that she'd just become "bored" with the project and decided to let it go.  I wasn't able to find anything to back it up other than the "Never been used" on the craigslist ad, but it looks like I was pretty damn close if she never even opened.

"Oh hell, you mean I have to actually RUN a business and can't just open up and sell? Booriiing."

Not to mention it's that modern 'glue some cogs on shit' that passes for steampunk these days. Lazy steampunk really irritates me for some reason.

You aren't the only one. No logic or even real aesthetic thought behind it just, "Hey I can afford x cogs, stick them on!"

My problem is not with the idea, it's the hands-off copout of Kickstarter to even make an attempt at policing the process, or vetting out potential submissions, even though they get a cut from the fundings. Essentially, Kickstarter is taking 5% for running a website and saying GOOD LUCK!

Yeah, though don't the recent laws Congress passed for this force at least a little regulation on it now?  I can't remember other than the idea that it didn't resolve the, "Put up funding initative, take money and declare business closed after minor expendetures" problem.

[Ingmar]

My problem is not with the idea, it's the hands-off copout of Kickstarter to even make an attempt at policing the process, or vetting out potential submissions, even though they get a cut from the fundings. Essentially, Kickstarter is taking 5% for running a website and saying GOOD LUCK!

They're taking 5% for providing what is essentially a useful middleman service. I really don't see the issue.

[Paelos]

My problem is not with the idea, it's the hands-off copout of Kickstarter to even make an attempt at policing the process, or vetting out potential submissions, even though they get a cut from the fundings. Essentially, Kickstarter is taking 5% for running a website and saying GOOD LUCK!

They're taking 5% for providing what is essentially a useful middleman service. I really don't see the issue.

Because they are potentially acting as a middleman for fraud, and have no policies in place to deal with it. Also, when NPR brought it up, they were like, "Well we HOPE that doesn't happen."  

[Margalis]

I suspect that the video game section of Kickstarter will implode in a couple years. Most of the highest-profile projects are going to be garbage.

[Sky]

Paelos, you seem to be operating under a lot of assumed occurrences.

Don't back steampunk cupcakes. Back trusted sources for deliverable product. I've thrown a couple passes into double coverage, but I'm pretty sure I'm backing stuff that I'll see. And in every case I got a great deal and helped some people out. Not to mention in most of them the fans have had a say in the direction of the project, sometimes to a very significant degree.

Now, if you want to grind an axe the way Az is, that's one thing. Delays and spotty communication are legit gripes, even with solid campaigns otherwise. But the stuff you're talking about is stuff that's pretty easy to see at a distance if you have any perspective. And if you can't...that's the beauty of the free market. Fools and their money, yeah? So don't be a fool?

[Paelos]

I'm not grinding an ax. What I'm suggesting only takes a small bit of foresight to see that the wild west of internet trade law, and the lax structure of recourse for people to deliver on their promises, those elements make dangerous bedfellows. I will never use it, you can use it if you feel comfortable. However, I think they are setting themselves up for some serious lawsuits in the future if they don't get more aggressive in their policies.

[schild]

Ok. Are you done yet?

[Paelos]

Ok. Are you done yet?

Yep. Have at it.

[Thrawn]

Was browsing Kickstarter and got a kick out of this one - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/967946252/rainfall-the-sojourn?ref=category

After watching the video and reading through it, it dawned on me that they are saying nothing about the game play.  It's all super vague with no game play details or examples, nothing really other than "2D sprites, RPG".  Yet it's still over $18,000.