From the creator of Shadowrun... Shadowrun

[HaemishM]

The only real negative I can say about this choice is that it's sure to create some confusion among the potential customers as well as adding a layer of WTF complexity to the backers' versions. It's not smart but it won't affect me as I didn't back it and will likely buy the Steam version anyway.

[Lantyssa]

Potential customers can only get the Steam version.  It's nothing more than bitching by people looking for a reason to bitch.  They're getting exactly what was advertised, which is the Shadowrun game DRM-free.

So they can't get future expansions without DRM?  The studio hasn't even gotten the first game out yet and they're whining about something two games out.  Big fucking whoop.

[Zetor]

All I want is a Hong Kong DLC/expansion so I can recreate my gaming group's various hijinks in that 4-year megacampaign we did...

[Kitsune]

The things that stood out to me were, 'Oh, uh, hey guys, saving the game is like, hard so we're only offering checkpoint saves.' and 'Wait, you mean you wanted to be able to take guns from the security guards you just shot?  Um.  Well, we probably could have put that in the game, but that's hard too.'  Those squeaking sounds alerted me to the clownshoes worn by the developers and made it very apparent to me that somebody was in way over their heads on this project.

[Velorath]

The things that stood out to me were, 'Oh, uh, hey guys, saving the game is like, hard so we're only offering checkpoint saves.' and 'Wait, you mean you wanted to be able to take guns from the security guards you just shot?  Um.  Well, we probably could have put that in the game, but that's hard too.'  Those squeaking sounds alerted me to the clownshoes worn by the developers and made it very apparent to me that somebody was in way over their heads on this project.

I think it's been mentioned here in the past that Shadowrun as an RPG was never really a loot game in the way that something like D&D is. You aren't going to find a +2 handgun or anything, and chances are whatever weapon you are using is going to be more suited to you due to weapon skills, smart link jacks, and such that you aren't going to want to just pick a random gun up off somebody. Money > loot.

[Ingmar]

It may actually be entirely possible that at the time they made the promise, they weren't thinking of Steam as even counting as DRM.

[Lantyssa]

I think it's been mentioned here in the past that Shadowrun as an RPG was never really a loot game in the way that something like D&D is. You aren't going to find a +2 handgun or anything, and chances are whatever weapon you are using is going to be more suited to you due to weapon skills, smart link jacks, and such that you aren't going to want to just pick a random gun up off somebody. Money > loot.

At the very least, enemy weapons worth anything would have a bio-lock on them.  At most you'd pick something up for emergency use.  At worst you'd give the corps a way to trace the run back to you...

Maybe a really hard up runner could sell stuff to their fixer, but generally that's not going to be something they want to bother with, and the rate of return is going to suck.  Now if you came back with a prototype, that might be worth the neuyen, but then that'd already be accounted for by the GM / game engine.

[Zetor]

Yep, the only semi-profitable "loot" (other than nuyen and information, and maybe an emergency weapon) was the cyberware inside enemy street samurais. And there was the tiny problem of lugging 150 kilograms of metal and flesh to the nearby shadow clinc to do the extraction... which took a lot of effort and time. Time the runners probably didn't have if they were encountering groups of cybered up enemies with betaware+.  

e: I actually don't remember if magic doodads had much value... weren't those bound to the mages anyway?

[Phred]

Hm.

1) The promised DRM-free version for backers will not support future DLC additions beyond the original campaign and the Berlin DLC. Steam will be required for those due to a previously undisclosed licensing agreement with Microsoft.

So I guess the question is, are kickstarter projects required to provide more than what is promised to backers? Appearantly to some they are. You missed the complaints that the DRM free version will not be available to non backers as well.

[Phred]

Sounds like they do have a save system, just that it's classic checkpoint based (perhaps a little old-fashioned for modern gamers).  Didn't see the thing about no loot.  OMG NO LOOTZ!!!!111!1one

Supposedly it's a time thing. They can't allocate the time for a save system and get all the content in they want for release so the save system gets the chop. Which I think in a game that's going to be drowning in user content is a bad decision.

[Kitsune]

Shadowrun as a game has never been much about grabbing armloads of magic swords from fallen enemies, yeah, but if your team's in the shit and that dead guy next to you has a bunch of grenades on him, well.  Being able to scrounge ammo off of enemies is a perfectly legitimate thing to want to do.  Getting their weapons are an iffier proposition because of the possibility of them being smartlinked and therefore useless without a hacker to unlock them, and a shadowrun team likely doesn't have the luxury of enough time to strip down every person they shoot for their belongings, but leaving out the option entirely is just lazy.

[Ghambit]

Meh, would have been worse to have looting imo.  Most runner ops are fairly covert, resource-mgmtey affairs.  Being able to loot every corpse would be kind of anathema to the IP unless you wanted a more wide-open sandboxey game.

A more important concern with this game will be how they handle the "little" things like Hacking and smart weapons.  Did they even decide if they're gonna have any kind of Net or not?

[Fabricated]

The Matrix and spiritual plane and all that are actually overlaid over the world and can be seen like a separate layer by characters with the required hardware/skills to use them.

[Kitsune]

Which is more of a Shadowrun 4 thing than the previous editions, most hacking's done in AR rather than jacking into the Matrix.  On one hand, running a game's much much easier when the hacker hasn't fucked off to the Matrix and the mage isn't busy drooling while her astral body's off doing something magical.  On the other, the distinct separation of worlds in which hackers and mages operated in added a lot to the flavor of the setting.

[Quinton]

Supposedly it's a time thing. They can't allocate the time for a save system and get all the content in they want for release so the save system gets the chop. Which I think in a game that's going to be drowning in user content is a bad decision.

Is there a reference to the specifics of "not having a save system" somewhere?  It seems inconceivable that there would be no way to save a game, so I've been under the impression that it's more of a lack of some specific feature or property...

[Zetleft]

Supposedly it's a time thing. They can't allocate the time for a save system and get all the content in they want for release so the save system gets the chop. Which I think in a game that's going to be drowning in user content is a bad decision.

Is there a reference to the specifics of "not having a save system" somewhere?  It seems inconceivable that there would be no way to save a game, so I've been under the impression that it's more of a lack of some specific feature or property...

It's mentioned in the gameplay walkthrough.  They will have a checkpoint system instead since its 'easier'.  I'm not too butthurt about it since I always end up saving way too many time as is.  And chances are with a heavy mod system someone will make their own.  But year seems lazy.

[Rasix]

Lack of save games is a distinct minus for me.  This feature was annoying as hell in Bioshock: Infinite.   I can't see how it wouldn't be 100% worse in a game like this.

Are save games all of a sudden difficult now?

[Lakov_Sanite]

Lack of save games is a distinct minus for me.  This feature was annoying as hell in Bioshock: Infinite.   I can't see how it wouldn't be 100% worse in a game like this.

Are save games all of a sudden difficult now?

For consoles designed to use their storage to hold games and not a million saves it is.

[Quinton]

I don't understand how "checkpoint system" equals "lack of save games".  The former means "can only save at certain times" (annoying but not necessarily the end of the world), while the latter means (or sounds like) "cannot save at all" (surely not) or maybe "limited save slots"  (annoying but survivable).

[rk47]

Yeah they thought you can't lose when they give you ammo, health and money periodically in Bioshock Infinite.
Guess what, I'd trade away that little slut for a save game option, Levine.

[Pezzle]

Being able to save when you want lets you quit when you want rather than pause the game all day/night long if you are not at one of the predesignated checkpoints?  Maybe there is a spot where a save would be really nice that was not thought of by the designers?  Maybe you engage in lots of activity in an area that does not have a save trigger? 

Lots of good reasons to have player made saves.  The lack of this does not mean no saves but it may mean players have to learn how to trigger them, which is annoying.

[Zetor]

The no saves thing is probably due to them using the Moai engine. Apparently, non-checkpointed savegame handling (aka object persistence) in Moai is hard.

More importantly, there's a new update about the Matrix system they're using... it's basically an entire second layer of the world where the decker can run around and do decker stuff while the rest of the party takes care of the physical threats. Sounds pretty cool!

Environment video

[sickrubik]

The release date is July 25.

[Falconeer]

And it's on Steam, for pretty cheap.

[Zetor]

The release date is July 25.

I'm kinda bummed about this -- but on the other hand, it leaves me more time to prepare the campaign I'm planning to create! Now, if only they released the editor a month early for preorderers...  

e: there are several let's play videos for custom missions made by early access backers floating around youtube already, in case anyone wants to take a look at the 'final' gameplay

[Threash]

Damnit, freaking steam has been teasing me with their "releasing in june" on this game for months.

[Samprimary]

noloot is probably significantly better for this game.

in the future any loot worth taking has to be jailbroken afore you can use it.

We once managed to scoot out of a job with a couple of ares lasers which we put in shielded boxes so they couldn't be tracked. took them to a fence who wouldn't touch them with a nine foot pole and told us to get them the fuck out of his shop. eventually found a gunsmith who we paid good money to to painstakingly hack into the thing, burn out all the trackers and crap, and rewire it so we could use it. A timer went off in the other one because it hadn't received a link code from the corp that owned it in 24 hours, setting off microexplosives that ruined the gun.

And the better part of that outcome wasn't that we got an ares laser,  but that we learned a lot about how to hack that corp's guns and send a kill signal to the explosives inside.

[Zetor]

Since this is coming out next week, ARISE! And have a launch trailer.

The developers have said a few times that they have basically no marketing budget... yeah, it shows. That said, this trailer does show a bit more about what the game looks/plays like.


edit: there is also a Let's Play video series being done by the current manager of the 'Shadowrun Missions' campaign setting who is also one of the game's beta testers. Not going to link it here due to heavy spoilage... but you can find it if you search for 'Bulldrek' on youtube.

[Megrim]

noloot is probably significantly better for this game.

in the future any loot worth taking has to be jailbroken afore you can use it.

We once managed to scoot out of a job with a couple of ares lasers which we put in shielded boxes so they couldn't be tracked. took them to a fence who wouldn't touch them with a nine foot pole and told us to get them the fuck out of his shop. eventually found a gunsmith who we paid good money to to painstakingly hack into the thing, burn out all the trackers and crap, and rewire it so we could use it. A timer went off in the other one because it hadn't received a link code from the corp that owned it in 24 hours, setting off microexplosives that ruined the gun.

And the better part of that outcome wasn't that we got an ares laser,  but that we learned a lot about how to hack that corp's guns and send a kill signal to the explosives inside.

What, like spare ammo?

[Sky]

Backers should have their key to add the game to Steam, but there won't be a pre-load :(

[Strazos]

Almost forgot about it - I'll probably pick it up on Steam.

Been plowing through IWD lately, and this seems different enough.

[Ghambit]

Anyone know if it's possible to play this on a shared desktop (every command would need to be clickable onscreen)?  I'm not going to invest in this (yah, I said it) unless I can port in some MP somehow.  It can be done with TBS (long turns) and a good editor; assuming one can tweak each squadmember to be a player character equivalent.

And no, I cant be arsed to find this info. myself.   

[Soln]

Almost forgot about it - I'll probably pick it up on Steam.

Been plowing through IWD lately, and this seems different enough.

Too funny.  I gorged on GOG and got every game I ever owned on CD and started up IWD in anticipation of this as well. 

[Phred]

noloot is probably significantly better for this game.

Sure is a lot of loot dropping in the let's play linked earlier, for a no loot game that is.

[CmdrSlack]

So.....it is a very rare thing when I preorder games. Does Steam always unlock stuff at midnight?  Should I just get some sleep instead?