Crusader Kings II

[Reg]

Oh yeah that's true. Things like the redone tech tree are there but my Vikings were still all civilized Catholics and I'm far enough along that the mongols weren't a real threat either.

edit: Cathlics? sheesh!

[Khaldun]

Yeah, I'm going to finish out my current Poland game and then really see what's new.

Gavelkind inheritance is fucking annoying.

[Sjofn]

Gavelkind is the woooooorst. I was playing Sweden, and I ate Denmark, but whoops I had two sons, ONE OF THEM GETS DENMARK SUCK IT SJOFN. So then I had to take it AGAIN. Very annoying.

[Ceryse]

Gavelkind is manageable with the right preparation.

Extra sons? Well, time to conquer somewhere and give each son I don't want inheriting a church -- it'll remove them from the inheritance pool. Can get a bit risky if your chosen heir dies, though.

[Sjofn]

There are really only so many churches, dammit! Also I am not sure if that works with the new Norse shit. Probably does, but I was playing conservatively and not pillaging as much as I should've been.

Also has anyone else started in almost-sweden? For some reason it was straight up refusing to let me select Upland. Everything else was working right, but I'd click on that county and nothing would pop up. Makes it hard to improve. ><

[Ceryse]

It still works. Its how I avoided having most of England get divvied up amongst my four heirs when Half-Dan died. Sons two through four? Churches. Worst case scenario you can just revoke a church title or two to give to your kids. Sure, it'll make your vassals hate you but all a civil war means is more land to hand out all over again, especially if you're an asshole like me and all your count-level rulers already hate you because you keep the towns/churches in their counties as your own vassals, leaving them with none (anywhere from -25 to -150 relation hit, but all their vassal money is mine!).

I started out as Half-Dan. Most of England and Ireland are mine and if there's a ruler in France, Spain, Italy, Byzantine Empire or the Muslim world who hasn't loathed me for my raiding I'd be surprised. Only had one internal war so far and will likely turn on the other rulers that are descended from Lothbrok now that Half-Dan is dead and bring all of England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland into the fold. Then maybe unite the old lands under my banner as well. I'm gonna need a big land soon.. The lands of Charlemagne are getting united and they don't like my pillaging Norse pagan ass one bit.

Probably doesn't help I've made most of their wives/daughters into concubines at one time or another.. or sacrificed them to the Old Gods.

Probably give land-locked Rurik a go next game. Sack Constantinople.. take the Byzantine Empire and then Rome. The fun stuff.

[Speedy Cerviche]

You can select free-investiture law and just appoint your sons as heirs to a church. free-investiture even makes your vassals happier. The pope might get after you to change it eventually or get ex-communicated but you can always flip it back again later.

[satael]

The Dynasty of Skald (Empire of Scandinavia)

[Sjofn]

You can select free-investiture law and just appoint your sons as heirs to a church. free-investiture even makes your vassals happier. The pope might get after you to change it eventually or get ex-communicated but you can always flip it back again later.

I've been playing proto-Sweden. They don't work like that, given their religion is Norse. 

The Empire of Scandinavia is trucking along. I don't really raid much, I'm too busy making sure the HRE never really forms. Also human sacrifice is the best.

[rk47]

The Old Gods can be had for $12.00 at green man gaming with voucher:    GMG20-LLASD-D8WBQ

Not liking some of the changes. The whole retinue starting with zero morale is kinda dumb. It makes it even easier for player retinues to dominate the mid to end game.

[satael]

The Old Gods can be had for $12.00 at green man gaming with voucher:    GMG20-LLASD-D8WBQ

Not liking some of the changes. The whole retinue starting with zero morale is kinda dumb. It makes it even easier for player retinues to dominate the mid to end game.

I like it since it means that I can't just raise nearby levy to quickly crush any peasant revolts, raiders or adventurers instead I have to take the time to send my standing retinue to deal with it or let the raised levies get to high enough morale while the enemy is free to do what it wants.

[rk47]

Not really.
It makes merc army with cheap retinue combo really overpowered vs the pitiful AI stacks.



I started as the Zoroastrian count. Captured some adventurer with 600 gold. Gathered 300 gold merc went north, usurped Georgia and never looked back.

[Sjofn]

I never actually used retinues.  

I've started to now, though, because of the morale thing. But my empire is so goddamn big now, it can take them a while to squish the baby rebellions, so I use levies anyway most of the time. It also seems like every time one of my kings get uppity, WHOOPS ALL THE MERCS ARE HIRED OR DEAD FROM BEING RECENTLY HIRED BY SOMEONE ELSE. Which is fine, it's just sort of funny.

[Ceryse]

I love retinues. Free (outside of when they're getting back to full strength) and you can build them to take advantage of the strengths of the unit types (especially if you have access to a good heavy cav retinue choice, like the Byzantines). In my current Norse game (where I'm fending off a massive invasion from Lothringen, Western Francia, Eastern Francia and Aquitaine -- thankfully, as England, they can only send their troops in smaller waves allowing my retinue and levy army to mop them up) I'm going for a Huscarl heavy retinue army, but sprinkling in the archer/heavy infantry, light cavalry/heavy cavalry retinue units to round it out.

Not being able to raid is annoying, though.. can't afford to take the men away from the defensive whack-a-mole war unless I resort to mercs and the cost of mercs versus looting profits just isn't there in my game (the only real good looting target that isn't defended heavily is Venice and they still haven't recovered from the last time I looted and sieged down their cities).

Really liking the tech changes.. being able to choose where I invest is much better. Let's me focus on the techs that matter instead of the near worthless ones.

[rk47]

The retinues also contribute to liege army strength when doing the faction army comparison. Keeping on the low garrison levels in 800 AD, I didn't even waste manpower on expensive ones, I went for cheap skirmish and got what I wanted, a powerful siege army and stack big enough to scare the enemy levy from taking me head on when keeping the mercs on permanent hire.

Bulgaria couldn't stop my army.



Just gonna taxi to victory. Westwards.

[Maledict]

Have decided I want to play some really complex strategy game and am torn between this and EU3. Any suggestions?

[Reg]

IMO, this is way more fun than EU3.

[satael]

Have decided I want to play some really complex strategy game and am torn between this and EU3. Any suggestions?

EU3 doesn't really have "personalities" like CK2 does so it's more of a cut and dried simulation.

[Ingmar]

Have decided I want to play some really complex strategy game and am torn between this and EU3. Any suggestions?

Even if you were inclined to play an EU instead of CK2, I would play EU2/For the Glory over EU3, personally.

[Ruvaldt]

CK2 is by far the better game, but like Ingmar said, I think EU3 was a step back from EU2.  EU3 just never felt like it had any personality at all.

[satael]

EU4 is coming Q3/2013 so I'd wait until that if you really want to play EU 

[Maledict]

I got CK2, played twice as Ireland and still don't really understand what's going on. I have read through a lets play on the lets play archives but its obviously from some time ago and doesn't explain in enough detail what's going on.

[Lucas]

So, I'm finally trying to get seriously into this game; not easy, I've always found Paradox games (and the strategy genre in general) quite hard, but it shouldn't come as a surprise.

I would like to ask a couple questions because I think I'm approaching the passage of time in this game incorrectly.

I'm starting with a simple Count because I want to start small: naturally, you have to plan ahead, and the "ladder", so to speak, must be climbed slowly.
---

- so, for certain councillors tasks, like "Sow dissent", you should keep the chancellor well past the potential "recall" time in order to see results?
- If I accelerate the passage of time, I get this sense that I let it skip it ahead too much, while instead I should micromanage more; what's an ideal equilibrium? I imagine that the most important thing is to setting up goals for myself and let the time pass according to that. I say this because, for now, the highlights for me is having a wild hunt in october and a summer festival in june :P

[satael]

So, I'm finally trying to get seriously into this game; not easy, I've always found Paradox games (and the strategy genre in general) quite hard, but it shouldn't come as a surprise.

I would like to ask a couple questions because I think I'm approaching the passage of time in this game incorrectly.

I'm starting with a simple Count because I want to start small: naturally, you have to plan ahead, and the "ladder", so to speak, must be climbed slowly.
---

- so, for certain councillors tasks, like "Sow dissent", you should keep the chancellor well past the potential "recall" time in order to see results?
- If I accelerate the passage of time, I get this sense that I let it skip it ahead too much, while instead I should micromanage more; what's an ideal equilibrium? I imagine that the most important thing is to setting up goals for myself and let the time pass according to that. I say this because, for now, the highlights for me is having a wild hunt in october and a summer festival in june :P

For stuff like sow dissent or research just leave it there until you need it elsewehere. Other stuff like speed up building or fabricate claim you should keep it there until the building is done or the claim has been fabricated. The recall time is really just the earliest you can switch the councillor's task/location.
As for speeding up the time it gets easier to judge it once you get experience with the game. Most of the time it's enough (unless you are actually using troops) to keep up to date with the important messages (in the top right corner) as long as you also make sure every now and then that your vassals aren't getting too unhappy or that there aren't any dangerous plots or factions in the making.

[Teleku]

EU4 is coming Q3/2013 so I'd wait until that if you really want to play EU 

Oh, nice!  Yeah, I hated EU3, but 2 was awesome.  If they take all the good things they've learned from CK2 and Vic2 the game could be epic.

[Pennilenko]

Normally in a game like this, I would be completely pissed off by how confused I normally am. However, I am so gloriously bad at this that by the time I lose, there has been so much hilarious shit that happens to my play through that I don't care so much that I barely understand the game.

[Sjofn]

That's pretty much how I feel about it.

[rk47]

Yeah I had a FUUUUUCK moment last night when the game throw a 70k stack at me.
I saw my levy cap has 80k. I have JUST enough to beat him.
BUT ONLY and ONLY if I'm willing to micro all that shit across my empire, gather them for one final battle.

AI was like: Problem, rk?

...It's 1 AM, I have to go work tomorrow...but fuck off, I'm gonna win, asshole. YOU CANNOT DEFEAT THE ZOROASTRIAN BASILEUS!

[satael]

Alot of the troop micromanagement can luckily be avoided by transferring vassalages and titles to people (as long as you have a title that is above all others under your rule and you have a frim grip on it) so for example instead of having to raise levy in about every single county in England you just get a single 75k stack from the King of England when you call upon the levy there.

[rk47]

That 75k is his when he revolts too.
So yes, I like to keep them sub 10k.
And some vassals de jure is different. I like to wait they're properly assembled, and grant a King title to a new guy who'd love me to death.
Having a child take over when he's barely 15 is gold.
The long reign bonus is awesome - 10 years passed - and not a single faction formed even if my empire stretch from North Africa all the way to Khiva.

[Teleku]

I keep all the king titles for my ruler.  Generates a lot of daily prestige that way.  Whats the advantage of giving them away?  Seems like everytime one of those king titles ends up belonging to somebody else, they always end up revolting.  Also, I'm god emperor of this place damnit, all the kingdoms are mine!!!

[Khaldun]

In my current Poland game, my successful old king died in the middle of a rebellion. His 20-year old son was assassinated by a plot while leading troops to crush the rebellion but got his wife pregnant with a son about two months before getting killed. Rebel aristocrat is proclaimed king, but doesn't have the stones to execute the baby heir. So I'm still in it. Baby heir is now just a duke, but his uncle the bishop is still around. When a plot forms around the bishop uncle to replace the unpopular usurper, I instruct the regents to join the plot. Eight years of civil war later, my uncle is king and I'm almost of age. My uncle lets me out of jail. I become of age and marry a princess of Hungary. I start a plot to against my uncle, fire it off, and eight years of civil war later, I'm king again. I execute my uncle immediately.

That is awesome stuff. Really not possible in a standard 4X.

[rk47]

I keep all the king titles for my ruler.  Generates a lot of daily prestige that way.  Whats the advantage of giving them away?  Seems like everytime one of those king titles ends up belonging to somebody else, they always end up revolting.  Also, I'm god emperor of this place damnit, all the kingdoms are mine!!!

Advantages:
1. Army Management
Before you give them away,
Raise levy from Kingdom A
Collect 500 levy from duchy 1 , 2 , 3 and 4

After you give them away:
Rise levy from Kingdom A
Collect 2,000 levy from the Kingdom capital.

2. Faction management
Before you give them away:
Please four dukes. Worry about their heir being a retard ambitious.

After you give them away:
Please one King. Give them a Kingdom and it's a +300 relations for a long time.
Worry about his heir? Educate him yourself.

[rk47]

That is awesome stuff. Really not possible in a standard 4X.

[cironian]

Please one King. Give them a Kingdom and it's a +300 relations for a long time.
Worry about his heir? Educate him yourself.

For the HRE I see the value in having king vassals. For the Byzantines however the free duchy revocation they get is far too useful to miss out on.

Duke doesn't like you? Just take his title and give it to someone else without anyone minding. Except for the old Duke, but he's no longer your direct vassal now so who cares.

Elsewhere, I'd rather be a Mega-King than an Emperor for the quicker De-Jure-Assimilation.