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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Sports / Fantasy Sports  |  Topic: MLB 2012 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: MLB 2012  (Read 162744 times)
Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 15024

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Reply #910 on: November 16, 2012, 12:41:51 PM

Dude, stop.  There are arguments to be made here, but you're a puppet and chart away from the Chewbacca defense.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 12:44:25 PM by Rasix »

-Rasix
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #911 on: November 16, 2012, 01:38:58 PM

Look you can be mad that players who supposedly "deserve" the award don't make it. But they aren't getting voted in unless they are in the playoffs. I mean it says it right there in the article that 20/21 MVPs for the AL made the postseason.

At some point don't you have to agree that the people in the know, the players themselves, and the people voting on this stuff are actually making the right call?

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


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Reply #912 on: November 16, 2012, 01:44:56 PM

If the award were given on statistical criteria, there are plenty of arguments to be made for either one.

This award is not given on statistical criteria. It's voted on by a bunch of homer journos. It doesn't fucking matter what the stats are (since the only criteria the journos are given is what THEY think is "most valuable"). It matters what the voters care about and journos care about 2 things: Triple Crown and playoffs. If neither of those is present, then you look at guys with really big numbers. Which is why A-Rod won it in years past on terrible teams in Texas.

Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #913 on: November 16, 2012, 01:47:19 PM

If anything, I have a problem with the name of the award.

Were it called Most Outstanding Player, you wouldn't have as many arguments. It's Trout, game over.

It's the valuable part of it that throws a wrench in the works from my POV.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
WayAbvPar
Moderator
Posts: 19268


Reply #914 on: November 16, 2012, 11:57:33 PM

Dude, stop.  There are arguments to be made here, but you're a puppet and chart away from the Chewbacca defense.

I am taking your advice.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

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ghost
The Dentist
Posts: 10619


Reply #915 on: November 18, 2012, 02:46:34 PM

Is there seriously a an argument about this ( Ohhhhh, I see.)?  The Triple Crown may not mean shit to you stats people, but it's a big deal.  It was a foregone conclusion that Cabrera would win the MVP.  You can debate until you are blue in the face, but the Triple Crown hasn't been done in 45 years and has only been accomplished 17 times in MLB history.  Who cares how much importance you attribute to the stats, you know that the voters will.  It's a done debate. 
cmlancas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2511


Reply #916 on: November 19, 2012, 06:03:26 AM

All wins aren't equal. If you don't make the playoffs you were just as valuable to your team as anybody else sitting home in October. You didn't matter. The result was exactly the same as if you didn't exist.

That is the stupidest fucking thing I have read today.

So you're saying that when the Mariners played a four-game set against Boston late in the season anyone gave a shit?

Paelos might be in left field on some things, but he's right on here:  not all wins are created equal.  Since you've dubbed this the "stupidest fucking thing you've read today," let's take a look at this (purely hypothetical, somewhat hyperbolic) example:

Pitcher A:  C. Young pitches 38 games, goes 35-3 with 180 IP and a 4.43 ERA.  Within 70% of his wins, he pitches with an average lead in the first three innings of four runs.

Pitcher B:  G. Maddux pitches 37 games, and goes 18-9 with 178 IP and a 2.43 ERA.  90% of his victories are in one-run games.

Now, I get that a win is a win, but given these variables, (and I get that I've given a somewhat ridiculous example) are some wins not more valuable than others?

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cmlancas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2511


Reply #917 on: November 19, 2012, 06:06:55 AM

If the award were given on statistical criteria, there are plenty of arguments to be made for either one.

This award is not given on statistical criteria. It's voted on by a bunch of homer journos. It doesn't fucking matter what the stats are (since the only criteria the journos are given is what THEY think is "most valuable"). It matters what the voters care about and journos care about 2 things: Triple Crown and playoffs. If neither of those is present, then you look at guys with really big numbers. Which is why A-Rod won it in years past on terrible teams in Texas.

So Verlander won the Cy Young this year, right?  You know, because he made the playoffs and had really big numbers.
 Ohhhhh, I see.

Edit:  I see that you're talking MVP here, but those same organizations vote for other awards, too.  Call it comparing honeycrisp apples to royal gala apples.

f13 Street Cred of the week:
I can't promise anything other than trauma and tragedy. -- schild
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


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Reply #918 on: November 19, 2012, 09:53:13 AM

Cy Young is a totally different ball of wax. The fact that relievers are almost never considered and the dumbest pitching stat in existence (wins) is held in such high regard for this award, it really is apples to oranges.

cmlancas
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2511


Reply #919 on: November 19, 2012, 10:10:35 AM

Cy Young is a totally different ball of wax. The fact that relievers are almost never considered and the dumbest pitching stat in existence (wins) is held in such high regard for this award, it really is apples to oranges.

I can sortof get behind that, but my point was more that this year's Cy Young winner for the AL contradicts the playoff boner media voters allegedly have.

Rodney was in the talks this year in the AL; finished fifth, I think?  I subscribe to the thought closers are supremely overrated because the idea of a firefighter closer is long gone.  So, until we find someone who either fills that role or pitches 100-ish innings with a 0.50 ERA, we're probably looking at starters winning the award.

f13 Street Cred of the week:
I can't promise anything other than trauma and tragedy. -- schild
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