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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Lord of the Rings Online  |  Topic: The slippery slope is behind us now (LOTRO Store) 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: The slippery slope is behind us now (LOTRO Store)  (Read 6332 times)
Hutch
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Posts: 1881


on: January 13, 2012, 01:46:25 PM

We're now in Pay to Win territory.

The LOTRO store is going to sell items that are functional, rather than merely cosmetic.

Coming on Jan 17th

Included is a run speed buff on the shoes.

I weep for the future.

Plant yourself like a tree
Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning.
I don't really mind how much you love me
Mrbloodworth
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Reply #1 on: January 13, 2012, 01:48:57 PM

Looks good for new users. But hardly game breaking.


Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
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Ingmar
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Reply #2 on: January 13, 2012, 01:49:03 PM

That 8% runspeed buff is already on a bunch of things from preorder bonuses etc. Given that the gear appears to be pretty terrible otherwise I'm not sure this is a big deal. They were already far more in Pay To Win territory with the stat gain tomes than with this.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #3 on: January 13, 2012, 04:49:25 PM

personally, I don't have a problem with this.  I wish they would go farther.
Cheddar
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Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 06:31:16 PM

Not seeing what the issue is.  Gear is decent without being better then top end crafted or raid gear that can be earned for that level?

No Nerf, but I put a link to this very thread and I said that you all can guarantee for my purity. I even mentioned your case, and see if they can take a look at your lawn from a Michigan perspective.
Zetor
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WWW
Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 10:26:42 PM

I don't really mind this... my biggest issue with the f2p/freemium system is that it inclines developers to 'solve' tedious grinds by putting things that bypass them on the market instead of making the grinds themselves more bearable / removing them from the game. See also: traits/virtues.

There was a rant from the Massively senior editor that I mostly agree with. (and yes, a lot of that can apply to other f2p titles as well)

Hutch
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Posts: 1881


Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 08:31:57 AM

You guys are right. This isn't a big deal, I don't know what I was thinking.

The cash shop isn't an awesome source of revenue. Turbine will never put top-tier gear in there. They won't be able to come up with a rationalization for making more money. This business with the mediocre gear isn't a step along that path.

I don't know what I was worrying about. Never mind!

Plant yourself like a tree
Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning.
I don't really mind how much you love me
Numtini
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Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 08:37:48 AM

I don't like it, but it looks to me to be more along the lines of the heritage twink armor in WoW rather than a real pay to win sort of thing. I can't imagine they will sell very much of it as armor seems rather easy to come across and the game is pretty easy to grind through without high end armor (or maybe my minstrel is just OP).

I don't find the LOTRO cash shop that intrusive, though I changed my UI to something that doesn't have the button. At least with Turbine, you can play the game via the F2P model where the others have stuck in some poison pill to force you to fork over by the month.

I do agree with the article in general though. US companies don't get the f2p model and seem to be more worried about that one free rider could slip through the cracks than they are about the bottom line.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Modern Angel
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Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 09:01:20 AM

You guys are right. This isn't a big deal, I don't know what I was thinking.

The cash shop isn't an awesome source of revenue. Turbine will never put top-tier gear in there. They won't be able to come up with a rationalization for making more money. This business with the mediocre gear isn't a step along that path.

I don't know what I was worrying about. Never mind!


Stop being passive-aggressive, Jesus.
Ingmar
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Reply #9 on: January 14, 2012, 02:52:17 PM

There was already way more egregious stuff in there. Seriously, there is nothing to see here.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Soln
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Posts: 4402

the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #10 on: January 14, 2012, 03:56:49 PM

I'm not unsympathetic, but LotRO is soooo far down the design path of being a barter-everything-economy game that putting more stuff in the shop doesn't phase me.  I mean, we have an entire rewards systems based on tokens.  Not random drops or some kind of unlock -- it's all about grind+exchange fer convenience+balance (I guess).   More stuff on the actual store seems par for the course.
Rokal
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Reply #11 on: January 15, 2012, 05:39:39 AM

I have a bigger problem with the lootboxes that they sell keys for in the store, honestly. It feels a bit too close to gambling for me. Pay real money for the chance to get something nice. The way they were implemented was also particularly bad, as you still can get lootboxes while playing normally. They'll just sit in your inventory taunting you until you find the (rarer) key as a random drop, or you fork over money. It feels like you are losing an opportunity you should have (since you found a lootbox) rather than gaining one. Even if I don't buy the stat tomes, the low-level armor, or the loot box keys their existence still makes me feel worse about continuing to play the game.

As for the 'slippery slope' argument, I don't think you have to worry about them selling end-game gear in LOTRO really. DDO has been selling low-level weapons and armor in the store since the store was introduced ~2 years ago. It never progressed beyond that, and the gear you could obtain through normal gameplay was always way better.
Azazel
Contributor
Posts: 7691


Reply #12 on: January 15, 2012, 08:53:06 AM

We're now in Pay to Win territory.
The LOTRO store is going to sell items that are functional, rather than merely cosmetic.
Coming on Jan 17th
Included is a run speed buff on the shoes.

I weep for the future.

They've been doing that for.. well, since the store opened?

68% speed mounts with 250hp
Stat tomes - lots of them
Bank space - beyond what's purchasable with gold
additional bind points
faster cooldown on Map Home
additional legendary slots


I don't really mind this... my biggest issue with the f2p/freemium system is that it inclines developers to 'solve' tedious grinds by putting things that bypass them on the market instead of making the grinds themselves more bearable / removing them from the game. See also: traits/virtues.

There was a rant from the Massively senior editor that I mostly agree with. (and yes, a lot of that can apply to other f2p titles as well)

When I mentioned this point shortly after F2P went live, I got shouted down by people in love with LotRO and basically got called a hater/cunt.   Ohhhhh, I see.
My favourite was the email ad they sent me talking about either tradeskill or deed tomes that literally said "cut down the grind - buy these tomes!!"  awesome, for real

Oh, Hutch. I'm not saying that you've got nothing to worry about. I'm saying we've been slowly sliding down this slope pretty much since day one. Interestingly, I don't give much of a fuck anymore. I play every few weeks with my friends who still enjoy it, more as a social activity with/for them than anything else. I find LOTRO slow and tedious when playing solo or duoing with my wife, but it's still fun to play with friends in moderation. I play other games for pure enjoyment in solo/duo form. At least the game isn't pure crippleware like EQ2.


http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Modern Angel
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Posts: 3553


Reply #13 on: January 15, 2012, 09:01:26 AM


When I mentioned this point shortly after F2P went live, I got shouted down by people in love with LotRO and basically got called a hater/cunt.   Ohhhhh, I see.

Just by way of clarification, it wasn't until you were whining about it for almost a full solid year that people got tired of it and asked you to tone it down.
Numtini
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Posts: 7675


Reply #14 on: January 15, 2012, 09:31:03 AM

While I agree with the sentiment, I suspect that Turbine wouldn't change the grind on deeds one bit even if they weren't profiting off of speed ups and virtue sales.

I've been playing it for a little over a month, entirely through the cash shop. I think it's a very good implementation.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Modern Angel
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Posts: 3553


Reply #15 on: January 15, 2012, 10:21:10 AM

While I agree with the sentiment, I suspect that Turbine wouldn't change the grind on deeds one bit even if they weren't profiting off of speed ups and virtue sales.

I've been playing it for a little over a month, entirely through the cash shop. I think it's a very good implementation.

That's 100% my take. I get the complaint but this is also a vastly better implementation than just about anything out there. There aren't a lot of hard gear checks in the game. Maybe the few raids which are there but those days are behind me.
Stormwaltz
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Posts: 2918


Reply #16 on: January 15, 2012, 01:24:48 PM

The response to a poll at influential casual player site Casual Stroll to Mordor has thus far been overwhelmingly negative.

Quote
What are your overall feelings of low-level armour in the LOTRO Store?

    I loathe it. (36%, 299 Votes)
    Not a fan of the idea (30%, 247 Votes)
    I don't care if it's there or not (24%, 198 Votes)
    Waiting for more info on how it works. (6%, 47 Votes)
    It seems a good idea (3%, 23 Votes)
    I love it! (1%, 14 Votes)

Total Voters: 828

Nothing in this post represents the views of my current or previous employers.

"Isn't that just like an elf? Brings a spell to a gun fight."

"Sci-Fi writers don't invent the future, they market it."
- Henry Cobb
Azazel
Contributor
Posts: 7691


Reply #17 on: January 15, 2012, 05:39:40 PM


When I mentioned this point shortly after F2P went live, I got shouted down by people in love with LotRO and basically got called a hater/cunt.   Ohhhhh, I see.

Just by way of clarification, it wasn't until you were whining about it for almost a full solid year that people got tired of it and asked you to tone it down.

Just by way of clarification, we've been over this before. I was unhappy for about 3 months when it turned out that they were going to do things like renege on "you own the content" for people who bought the boxed set and make no effort to tone down the grindy aspects. I took a break and posted a bit more another 3-odd months later.

Just by way of clarification, it was about 6, perhaps 7 months after F2P came out, that you started crying like a cunt that I'd been bitching nonstop for "over a year". Which would be hard to do when F2P had been out for about 7 months and included a 3-month break from posting in the lotro forum. I even quoted the dates back at you. Now fuck off with your bullshit lies, cunt. Thanks.

Just by way of clarification, I don't much care about the changes to LOTRO anymore, or their over-eager monetisation of everything they can, or the endless grind aspects. I do care about you outright lying about what I said/did, though. So DIACF, cunt. Or just stop doing it. Either works. why so serious?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 05:45:52 PM by Azazel »

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Modern Angel
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Posts: 3553


Reply #18 on: January 15, 2012, 05:53:29 PM

Yeah, bro. You sure do not care about LOTRO changes or what people say. I'm not going to go searching for the interminable bitching about everything LOTRO on your part *again*. Plus, you're the one who brought it up this time; you can't even shut up about LOTRO NOW, while complaining whenever anyone wonders why you can't shut up about it.

Plus, Jesus, you make swearing boring. I say this as an affirmed, pathological swearer. Vary it up some, for fuck's sake. You're not being edgy by repeating the verboten C WORD over and over; you're being tedious.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 06:07:19 PM by Modern Angel »
Cheddar
I like pink
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Noob Sauce


Reply #19 on: January 15, 2012, 07:18:26 PM

Just by way of clarification, we've been over this before. I was unhappy for about 3 months when it turned out that they were going to do things like renege on "you own the content" for people who bought the boxed set and make no effort to tone down the grindy aspects. I took a break and posted a bit more another 3-odd months later.

Just by way of clarification, it was about 6, perhaps 7 months after F2P came out, that you started crying like a cunt that I'd been bitching nonstop for "over a year". Which would be hard to do when F2P had been out for about 7 months and included a 3-month break from posting in the lotro forum. I even quoted the dates back at you. Now fuck off with your bullshit lies, cunt. Thanks.

Just by way of clarification, I don't much care about the changes to LOTRO anymore, or their over-eager monetisation of everything they can, or the endless grind aspects. I do care about you outright lying about what I said/did, though. So DIACF, cunt. Or just stop doing it. Either works. why so serious?

Fail. 

No Nerf, but I put a link to this very thread and I said that you all can guarantee for my purity. I even mentioned your case, and see if they can take a look at your lawn from a Michigan perspective.
rattran
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Unreasonable


Reply #20 on: January 16, 2012, 01:04:06 AM

Stop being douchecanoes.
Yegolev
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2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


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Reply #21 on: January 17, 2012, 07:46:55 AM

Who is still playing LotRO to win?  I'm playing for the scenery, the story, and to collect outfits.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Stormwaltz
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Reply #22 on: January 20, 2012, 08:19:52 AM

Casual Stroll to Mordor runs the numbers and concludes that the store armor is NOT a mere convenience for players too lazy to quest, craft, or use the Auction House -- they're the best armor in the game at that level. In other words, they're pure Pay 2 Win.

Quote
For me, this puts the armour sets firmly on the side of “Advantage” over “Convenience”. Even at just three pieces of armour, it’s a significant leg up over the pieces that can be crafted. In my opinion, either the crafted armours needs to be buffed to become comparable’ or the Store armours need to be nerfed.

Nothing in this post represents the views of my current or previous employers.

"Isn't that just like an elf? Brings a spell to a gun fight."

"Sci-Fi writers don't invent the future, they market it."
- Henry Cobb
Numtini
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Reply #23 on: January 20, 2012, 08:41:37 AM

Having leveled with full sets of crit-crafted armor and jewelry, I can't even imagine how trivial this would make leveling.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Yegolev
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2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST


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Reply #24 on: January 20, 2012, 08:45:45 AM

Sounds like I need to buy some armor.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Ingmar
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Reply #25 on: January 20, 2012, 11:59:24 AM

I'd like to see them lined up against skirmish armor.

EDIT: Or even better, armor you can wear, say, 5 levels later. It is hardly pay to win if you're spending store points on something you'll replace in a few hours of play.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 12:01:04 PM by Ingmar »

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Modern Angel
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Reply #26 on: January 20, 2012, 01:23:36 PM

In other words, they're pure Pay 2 Win

This term should be outlawed when we're talking about leveling in your teens and twenties. This is really not a big deal. I don't even know if it's ever really going to be a big deal. If there was something like a competitive PvP or raid scene and they sell top flight gear, maybe. But I just can't bring myself to care about this because LOTRO's never been that game.

This is a lot more GW selling skills for money and a lot less WoW letting you get a leg up on their unofficial endgame race.
Yegolev
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Reply #27 on: January 20, 2012, 01:38:13 PM

As someone who isn't in such a race, if it exists in LotRO, I agree.  Also, I'm not that guy who likes doing things the hard way anymore.  That was just butt-ass-stupid.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Pennilenko
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Reply #28 on: January 20, 2012, 02:16:55 PM

I just wish that one of these days I could log into an MMO, go to their store and buy a fully function fun as hell max level character with good gear and all the cool junk like awesome flying mounts and what not. I couldn't give a crap about earning it. Point me in the direction of the store and let me pay to get directly to my version of the fun.

"See?  All of you are unique.  And special.  Like fucking snowflakes."  -- Signe
Reg
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Reply #29 on: January 20, 2012, 02:19:59 PM

I watched a guildmate sell his awesome-as-hell, fully equipped, max level FFXI character to some guy who'd never played the game at max level before.  The real fun came in watching the newb delevel himself 5 or 6 times before he stopped being able to find groups to play with.
Numtini
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Reply #30 on: January 20, 2012, 04:08:38 PM

I just wish that one of these days I could log into an MMO, go to their store and buy a fully function fun as hell max level character with good gear and all the cool junk like awesome flying mounts and what not. I couldn't give a crap about earning it. Point me in the direction of the store and let me pay to get directly to my version of the fun.

I actually quite agree with this. Not raid level gear, just "if you want to avoid the soloquestgrind for 50 levels and the groupwithrandomstrangers for a year tier, just pay us $50 and you can be entry raid ready.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
Stormwaltz
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Reply #31 on: January 21, 2012, 09:12:12 PM


Nothing in this post represents the views of my current or previous employers.

"Isn't that just like an elf? Brings a spell to a gun fight."

"Sci-Fi writers don't invent the future, they market it."
- Henry Cobb
Modern Angel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3553


Reply #32 on: January 22, 2012, 07:49:23 AM

But who cares if someone has an advantage in leveling? It doesn't matter.
Ingmar
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Reply #33 on: January 22, 2012, 08:28:27 PM

Especially this late in the game.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Stormwaltz
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Posts: 2918


Reply #34 on: January 23, 2012, 01:55:17 AM

"First they came for the newbie experience, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a newbie..."

Nothing in this post represents the views of my current or previous employers.

"Isn't that just like an elf? Brings a spell to a gun fight."

"Sci-Fi writers don't invent the future, they market it."
- Henry Cobb
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