f13.net

We're now in Pay to Win territory.

The LOTRO store is going to sell items that are functional, rather than merely cosmetic.

Coming on Jan 17th (http://www.lotro.com/lotrostorenew)

Included is a run speed buff on the shoes.

I weep for the future.

Looks good for new users. But hardly game breaking.

That 8% runspeed buff is already on a bunch of things from preorder bonuses etc. Given that the gear appears to be pretty terrible otherwise I'm not sure this is a big deal. They were already far more in Pay To Win territory with the stat gain tomes than with this.

personally, I don't have a problem with this.  I wish they would go farther.

Not seeing what the issue is.  Gear is decent without being better then top end crafted or raid gear that can be earned for that level?

I don't really mind this... my biggest issue with the f2p/freemium system is that it inclines developers to 'solve' tedious grinds by putting things that bypass them on the market instead of making the grinds themselves more bearable / removing them from the game. See also: traits/virtues.

There was a rant (http://skycandy.org/2011/09/the-monetization-of-middle-earth/) from the Massively senior editor that I mostly agree with. (and yes, a lot of that can apply to other f2p titles as well)

You guys are right. This isn't a big deal, I don't know what I was thinking.

The cash shop isn't an awesome source of revenue. Turbine will never put top-tier gear in there. They won't be able to come up with a rationalization for making more money. This business with the mediocre gear isn't a step along that path.

I don't know what I was worrying about. Never mind!

I don't like it, but it looks to me to be more along the lines of the heritage twink armor in WoW rather than a real pay to win sort of thing. I can't imagine they will sell very much of it as armor seems rather easy to come across and the game is pretty easy to grind through without high end armor (or maybe my minstrel is just OP).

I don't find the LOTRO cash shop that intrusive, though I changed my UI to something that doesn't have the button. At least with Turbine, you can play the game via the F2P model where the others have stuck in some poison pill to force you to fork over by the month.

I do agree with the article in general though. US companies don't get the f2p model and seem to be more worried about that one free rider could slip through the cracks than they are about the bottom line.

Stop being passive-aggressive, Jesus.

There was already way more egregious stuff in there. Seriously, there is nothing to see here.

I'm not unsympathetic, but LotRO is soooo far down the design path of being a barter-everything-economy game that putting more stuff in the shop doesn't phase me.  I mean, we have an entire rewards systems based on tokens.  Not random drops or some kind of unlock -- it's all about grind+exchange fer convenience+balance (I guess).   More stuff on the actual store seems par for the course.

I have a bigger problem with the lootboxes that they sell keys for in the store, honestly. It feels a bit too close to gambling for me. Pay real money for the chance to get something nice. The way they were implemented was also particularly bad, as you still can get lootboxes while playing normally. They'll just sit in your inventory taunting you until you find the (rarer) key as a random drop, or you fork over money. It feels like you are losing an opportunity you should have (since you found a lootbox) rather than gaining one. Even if I don't buy the stat tomes, the low-level armor, or the loot box keys their existence still makes me feel worse about continuing to play the game.

As for the 'slippery slope' argument, I don't think you have to worry about them selling end-game gear in LOTRO really. DDO has been selling low-level weapons and armor in the store since the store was introduced ~2 years ago. It never progressed beyond that, and the gear you could obtain through normal gameplay was always way better.

They've been doing that for.. well, since the store opened?

68% speed mounts with 250hp
Stat tomes - lots of them
Bank space - beyond what's purchasable with gold
additional bind points
faster cooldown on Map Home
additional legendary slots



When I mentioned this point shortly after F2P went live, I got shouted down by people in love with LotRO and basically got called a hater/cunt.   :oh_i_see:
My favourite was the email ad they sent me talking about either tradeskill or deed tomes that literally said "cut down the grind - buy these tomes!!"  :awesome_for_real:

Oh, Hutch. I'm not saying that you've got nothing to worry about. I'm saying we've been slowly sliding down this slope pretty much since day one. Interestingly, I don't give much of a fuck anymore. I play every few weeks with my friends who still enjoy it, more as a social activity with/for them than anything else. I find LOTRO slow and tedious when playing solo or duoing with my wife, but it's still fun to play with friends in moderation. I play other games for pure enjoyment in solo/duo form. At least the game isn't pure crippleware like EQ2.

Just by way of clarification, it wasn't until you were whining about it for almost a full solid year that people got tired of it and asked you to tone it down.

While I agree with the sentiment, I suspect that Turbine wouldn't change the grind on deeds one bit even if they weren't profiting off of speed ups and virtue sales.

I've been playing it for a little over a month, entirely through the cash shop. I think it's a very good implementation.

That's 100% my take. I get the complaint but this is also a vastly better implementation than just about anything out there. There aren't a lot of hard gear checks in the game. Maybe the few raids which are there but those days are behind me.

The response to a poll (http://www.casualstrolltomordor.com/2012/01/poll-buying-armour-in-the-store/) at influential casual player site Casual Stroll to Mordor has thus far been overwhelmingly negative.

Just by way of clarification, we've been over this before. I was unhappy for about 3 months when it turned out that they were going to do things like renege on "you own the content" for people who bought the boxed set and make no effort to tone down the grindy aspects. I took a break and posted a bit more another 3-odd months later.

Just by way of clarification, it was about 6, perhaps 7 months after F2P came out, that you started crying like a cunt that I'd been bitching nonstop for "over a year". Which would be hard to do when F2P had been out for about 7 months and included a 3-month break from posting in the lotro forum. I even quoted the dates back at you. Now fuck off with your bullshit lies, cunt. Thanks.

Just by way of clarification, I don't much care about the changes to LOTRO anymore, or their over-eager monetisation of everything they can, or the endless grind aspects. I do care about you outright lying about what I said/did, though. So DIACF, cunt. Or just stop doing it. Either works. :why_so_serious:

Yeah, bro. You sure do not care about LOTRO changes or what people say. I'm not going to go searching for the interminable bitching about everything LOTRO on your part *again*. Plus, you're the one who brought it up this time; you can't even shut up about LOTRO NOW, while complaining whenever anyone wonders why you can't shut up about it.

Plus, Jesus, you make swearing boring. I say this as an affirmed, pathological swearer. Vary it up some, for fuck's sake. You're not being edgy by repeating the verboten C WORD over and over; you're being tedious.

Fail. 

Stop being douchecanoes.

Who is still playing LotRO to win?  I'm playing for the scenery, the story, and to collect outfits.

Casual Stroll to Mordor runs the numbers (http://www.casualstrolltomordor.com/2012/01/byrandt-on-store-bought-armour/) and concludes that the store armor is NOT a mere convenience for players too lazy to quest, craft, or use the Auction House -- they're the best armor in the game at that level. In other words, they're pure Pay 2 Win.

Having leveled with full sets of crit-crafted armor and jewelry, I can't even imagine how trivial this would make leveling.

Sounds like I need to buy some armor.

I'd like to see them lined up against skirmish armor.

EDIT: Or even better, armor you can wear, say, 5 levels later. It is hardly pay to win if you're spending store points on something you'll replace in a few hours of play.

This term should be outlawed when we're talking about leveling in your teens and twenties. This is really not a big deal. I don't even know if it's ever really going to be a big deal. If there was something like a competitive PvP or raid scene and they sell top flight gear, maybe. But I just can't bring myself to care about this because LOTRO's never been that game.

This is a lot more GW selling skills for money and a lot less WoW letting you get a leg up on their unofficial endgame race.

As someone who isn't in such a race, if it exists in LotRO, I agree.  Also, I'm not that guy who likes doing things the hard way anymore.  That was just butt-ass-stupid.

I just wish that one of these days I could log into an MMO, go to their store and buy a fully function fun as hell max level character with good gear and all the cool junk like awesome flying mounts and what not. I couldn't give a crap about earning it. Point me in the direction of the store and let me pay to get directly to my version of the fun.

I watched a guildmate sell his awesome-as-hell, fully equipped, max level FFXI character to some guy who'd never played the game at max level before.  The real fun came in watching the newb delevel himself 5 or 6 times before he stopped being able to find groups to play with.

I actually quite agree with this. Not raid level gear, just "if you want to avoid the soloquestgrind for 50 levels and the groupwithrandomstrangers for a year tier, just pay us $50 and you can be entry raid ready.

Over on Massively, Justin Olivetti takes Turbine to task for flip-flopping like Mitt Romney on their "convenience, not advantage" pledge. (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01/21/the-road-to-mordor-convenience-not-advantage/)

But who cares if someone has an advantage in leveling? It doesn't matter.

Especially this late in the game.

"First they came for the newbie experience, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a newbie..."

Unless it levels up with you, a la Heirloom items in WoW, I can't see it being worth the money. 

I started playing again after cancelling my swtor sub, and rolled a new Minstrel on Saturday.  By Sunday night, I was level 24.  I'm about as far from leveling efficiently as you can get, so I can imagine that someone that focused solely on leveling could have gotten even further.

Leveling isn't the point of this game anymore.  It serves to guide you through the content and stories, and so is pleasantly fast.  Does slow down a bit past 35 or 40 but recent changes may have ameliorated this.  I'd be fine if levels were eliminated, to be honest, so I could do some of those damn quests that I can't duo. :oh_i_see:

Sapience has posted an official response the uproar. (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?442106-A-word-about-the-new-gear-offerings-in-the-LOTRO-Store)

Define "end-game gear".  /clinton

I'm not comforted by that statement. 

Indeed.   Give me the option to buy and I-Win button please, if only for those stupid old deprecated instance like Carn Dum which nobody goes except for the Vol.1 Epic.