Pissed about an X-Com FPS? Firaxis hears ya...

[Samprimary]

my statement about assaults remains unchanged, though. I won through tenuous long-distance AIM attrition. Assaults have cool abilities but they're just not at at all as useful as what the other three bring to the table when you're doing that. I would bring them around for when you had stubborn shit noodling around in cramped UFO's, but they would die often.

[eldaec]

I'd generally agree, assaults roll too many dice and on harder difficulties you survive too few bad rolls; that said, I do like them early-mid game for lightning reflexes more than anything.

But once you start to reach upper levels of development, shotgun, run & gun and a few extra HP, doesn't really beat triple med packs, +3 move, double overwatch, double inventory, and smoke. Nor does it beat simply having more rockets. Or a second sniper.

If run & gun let you do psi shit and use items after a dash, they'd definitely be more interesting.

[lamaros]

I love assaults purely because they get lightning reflexes and shotguns (extra aim bonus inside 10 tiles iirc, and crit bonus too). They are sure things from close range. They get all my kills along with heavies early. Then snipers take over and assaults become somewhat useless.

I've stopped playing this due to Firaxis not supporting the game and fixing the multiplayer issues, but with over 150 hours it's a clear game of the year for me.

[Shannow]

Game is great but the more I play the more I realize that it's a dumbed down version for the console crowd. I wish for a mod where we can have multiple bases, bigger maps, already spawned in aliens...base defence missions...Basically the freedom/sandbox of the original game. Otherwise the replayability of this game feels low.

[Goumindong]

I think that is nostalgia getting in the way. Multiple bases/base invasions/already spawned in aliens* are things that don't really benefit the core gameplay, and are more often than not, problematic for the overall game. Base invasions/Multiple bases in particular were problematic because they were so incredibly binary, the same issue that people have on impossible difficulty with losing a mission (I.E. losing a base was game over in x-com 1 just as losing an early mission can be game over in this)

Maps are plenty big once you get to the ending of the game and plenty small for skirmishes before that, so you aren't doing massive slogs during the entire game.

The only legitimate issue with map size is that a few of the maps are "Monster Zoos", especially terror maps. You move one inch and instantly aggro the entire thing. This means you don't get to see the rest of the map.

Go back and play the original again and tell me that these mechanics aren't for the better

*Aliens are already spawned in, the detection mechanic saves the game from having to make moves for 20 aliens every round as well as fixing a lot of issues with pathing.

[Yoru]

You know what I find myself wishing for? Some kind of skirmish mode. Set up a squad, set up an enemy squad, duke it out. Or set up a squad, generate a "random" mission of appropriate difficulty for that squad, duke it out.

I find the awful strategic layer keeps pushing me away each time I decide to start a new game, at the moment.

[Samprimary]

I'd generally agree, assaults roll too many dice and on harder difficulties you survive too few bad rolls; that said, I do like them early-mid game for lightning reflexes more than anything.

But once you start to reach upper levels of development, shotgun, run & gun and a few extra HP, doesn't really beat triple med packs, +3 move, double overwatch, double inventory, and smoke. Nor does it beat simply having more rockets. Or a second sniper.

If run & gun let you do psi shit and use items after a dash, they'd definitely be more interesting.

The biggest issue is that you CANNOT approach the enemy by more than careful degrees. If you are fighting a group of enemies in impossible, you DARE NOT try to move up close to them or across their side or flank them. Because of the way the packs work, you'll probably trigger an extra pack or two and everyone will die and that's that. So an 'up close' class is strictly prohibited from utilizing their strengths in 90% of conditions because you don't want to trigger a new muton pack and watch everyone die.

[Tebonas]

I've used Assaults to close up doorways quite effectively. When a runner comes through the door he gets double shotgun to the face and that about kills everything. Which the "Auto Attack on everybody coming within 4 tiles" thats a "You shall not pass" setup.

Granted, thats limited usage, but an awesome one.

[Margalis]

The biggest issue is that you CANNOT approach the enemy by more than careful degrees. If you are fighting a group of enemies in impossible, you DARE NOT try to move up close to them or across their side or flank them. Because of the way the packs work, you'll probably trigger an extra pack or two and everyone will die and that's that. So an 'up close' class is strictly prohibited from utilizing their strengths in 90% of conditions because you don't want to trigger a new muton pack and watch everyone die.

The reason I've avoided playing this is from what I've read it sounds like the optimal way to play is the most dull.

A lot of turn based games have this problem, but some of the design decisions here make it particularly bad. I generally prefer turn based games where the order of turns is mixed between player and CPU rather than being one side then the other, because the latter system encourages you to play the game as a discrete set of optimized group movements.

When you combine that with ranged combat, overwatch, etc, it seems like the best way to play is to turn the game into a duck hunt: set everyone up, flush out an enemy and blow them all away before they have a chance to really do anything.

[Tannhauser]

Yeah, but burning down an enemy from overwatch is sooooo satisfying!  I'm always going to have at least one Assault in my squad; he's good for retrieving situations that have suddenly gone pear-shaped.

[Samprimary]

The reason I've avoided playing this is from what I've read it sounds like the optimal way to play is the most dull.

absofuckinglutely.

I want the game to be retooled to get rid of the pack 'pop' mechanic, in particular, so that you don't have to be utterly fucking terrified out of ever advancing in minute increments. One mission was nearly completely wiped because a single soldier moved to cover and passed a window which could see through windows on the other side of the building and this popped two extra packs lurking on the other side of the building.

When you combine that with ranged combat, overwatch, etc, it seems like the best way to play is to turn the game into a duck hunt: set everyone up, flush out an enemy and blow them all away before they have a chance to really do anything.

correct. In specific, you pop a pack, then draw them out to snipers. that's it. And you never advance until you are sure you have cleared any roving packs in the entire visible area.

Which means more than half the turns are rapidly mashing tab-v-tab-v-tab-v (try it! it's awesome)

[Hoax]

Agree entirely, but aren't our best people working on modding good things into the game?

[koro]

Outside of what's essentially glorified .ini tweaking and a few hacky texture swapping mods, Firaxis apparently has XCOM locked down tight  against modification. Would-be modders who are experienced at dealing with locked-down Unreal Engine 3 games aren't even bothering to try anymore.

[Samprimary]

Have to say though, even without any potential future modding, what we got is way awesome, and it's only at the end of using up all its replayability does the nitpicking matter with me.

I'm real happy with what we got. GOTY or whatever. I was also excited for sim city 5 but so far it looks like a pile of absolute garbage so i'm happy at least one thing turned out good!

[HaemishM]

Compared to how bad it COULD HAVE BEEN (see other remakes of old games like Syndicate), what we got is fucking awesome.

[Teleku]

This game is easily GOTY for me.  It's incredibly replay-able, and the small things we are nit picking it for only really start to become obvious after youve played the ever loving hell out of it.  Look forward to expansions.

[eldaec]

What you guys all said.

[Megrim]

Ugh, playing on Impossible highlights so many problems. Just had my last four games wiped on the second mission because of squads teleporting on top of my guys. That, and overwatch stubbornly refuses to work about half the time, for some reason.

[Strazos]

Pretty much lost a Class/IM game early because the burned out car I was hiding behind somehow catch fire and blew up, taking a sniper with it and knocking out a support. No problem, I though - just get the VIP to the extraction zone and I'm good...nope, have to go back to the other side of the map and pointlessly clear 2 sectoids.

Restart.

[Ironwood]

This game is easily GOTY for me.  It's incredibly replay-able, and the small things we are nit picking it for only really start to become obvious after youve played the ever loving hell out of it.  Look forward to expansions.

Yeah.  I just wish I had more time to play the fucker.

Also, Torchlight 2.  That one would be on the list too.

[Shannow]

Possibly a dumb question. I just started a Classic/IM game, why is the situation room greyed out?

[Teleku]

It stays greyed out until after you compete your first (well, technically 2nd) mission.  Then they introduce you to it.

[Shannow]

thx

[Khaldun]

I love the game. I do think the 'popping' mechanic could use some work. Also some maps where chokepoints and close assault were more viable options.

[HaemishM]

I just entered the Gollop Chamber on my classic playthrough last night and I assume am about to embark on the final mission. Still have not seen the blaster launcher. I'm ready to finish the game and play something else for a bit. I've thoroughly loved this game and would call it GOTY easy. While there are certainly flaws and things that could use tweaking (the popping mechanic being the main one), it's still just so well done and a worthy successor to the name X-Com.

[Merusk]

The only way you're going to see the blaster launcher is to take some muton elites alive on a battleship.   It's not worth delaying the game for. Its travel distance is as limited as your standard rockets, which made me very sad to find out.

[koro]

Or you could just buy the Slingshot DLC when it comes out, which lets you research Blaster Launchers from the start of the game! 

[Shannow]

The only way you're going to see the blaster launcher is to take some muton elites alive on a battleship.   It's not worth delaying the game for. Its travel distance is as limited as your standard rockets, which made me very sad to find out.

boo! That's not a blaster launcher. A blaster launcher is for going around as many corners as possible and taking out the enemy HQ room (curse new XCOM for not allowing targeting of terrain) Bonus points are awarded for degree of difficulty.......and when bored launching it past as many of your squaddies as possible in a game of Russian Blaster Launcher Roullette.

[koro]

The Blaster Launcher in the new X-Com still does the corner-curving stuff; you don't need LOS to fire it.

[Merusk]

Yeah, corner curving is in but shots across half the map aren't.  Which means you're still in pretty close-quarters to use it.. sometimes too close while still maintaining cover as its blast radius is pretty big! 

[HaemishM]

The only way you're going to see the blaster launcher is to take some muton elites alive on a battleship.   It's not worth delaying the game for. Its travel distance is as limited as your standard rockets, which made me very sad to find out.

Fuck a bunch of that. I've managed to capture all of TWO aliens this playthrough - the only two that I needed to progress the game. Otherwise, them bitches be dead. Fuck a bunch of putting my ass out in the wind to capture something with the really random hit percentages.

[statisticalfool]

I don't know: I like it, but I hit the wall of "the optimal way to play this is pretty boring" pretty early. The game pretty heavily reinforces that doing anything other than moving one person forward a little bit and then hitting overwatch on everybody is you being impatient: it's just about how patient you can be without going crazy.

[koro]

You don't have to actually capture anything for the Blaster Launcher. You just need to explore a section of a Battleship and get Dr. Shen telling you about a doodad he sees, and then you avoid blowing up that doodad. After the mission you can research the doodad and get Blaster Launchers for your Heavies and Fusion Lance guns for your ships that you obviously don't need since you've already shot down the biggest ship in the game.

[statisticalfool]

By the way, I would totally go for the game being retuned around 90% of the missions being bomb disposal/terror missions: those are by far the most fun.

[Polysorbate80]

bomb disposal

You should go in for an MRI scan, cuz I'm totally trying to give you cancer with my mind now.