Predictions: 1m+ players 3 days out; how about in January 2013?

[Surlyboi]

Same. The highest character I've got is 45 now, with a 40 and a 35 somewhere else. I've yet to run out of content and I've enjoyed the ride.

Granted, I'm going to take a break next week for ME3, but once i've done that, I'll be right back at TOR.

[Nebu]

Looks like the marketing blitz has started.  SWTOR is the Amazon.com gold box deal of the day at $39.99.  Not sure if that means anything, but I hope that improves the population on my server.  Even the primetime pvp queues have gotten almost too long to tolerate. 

[01101010]

Same. The highest character I've got is 45 now, with a 40 and a 35 somewhere else. I've yet to run out of content and I've enjoyed the ride.

Granted, I'm going to take a break next week for ME3, but once i've done that, I'll be right back at TOR.

I have a 50 and a couple of 40s spread out on different servers. The legacy system is a pisser in that it hasn't hit yet. Now that BW mentioned some of the sparkly on it, I can't justify another ALT and feel like I am spinning my wheels waiting for it (and will probably [definitely] not be even close to what I want out of it). I'll be surprised if I renew after my 3 month is up.

[Wolf]

Looks like the marketing blitz has started.  SWTOR is the Amazon.com gold box deal of the day at $39.99.  Not sure if that means anything, but I hope that improves the population on my server.  Even the primetime pvp queues have gotten almost too long to tolerate. 

I think that's more of a "We really overdid our restock, based on good initial sales and now this is moving way too slow" kind of a deal. I know I did

[Mattemeo]

I worry about the Legacy thing. I ended up choosing the absolute worst class as a soloing main character (Jedi Knight Sentinel) and it took me so long to finally reach the end of Chapter One that by that time I had rolled and played several alts to L20+... all that potential Legacy exp wasted. Considering I got into the early start and have only taken a week's break from the game over the Christmas period, I've yet to pass Legacy Level 5.
Their complete lack of transparency about what Legacy means and will do is incredibly frustrating to me. It's like holding a cake over my head that I'm not tall enough to reach and goading me with how delicious it might taste.

[Evildrider]

They've stated that Legacy will give you different race choices, unlock new animations, unlock other cosmetic junk, and possibly allow your character access to some new skills.

It's not all written out in one place somewhere but that's what they've said.

I'm like legacy 28 with 2 50's and both are battlemasters, well my 2nd will make it today at least.

[Nebu]

I'm like legacy 28 with 2 50's and both are battlemasters, well my 2nd will make it today at least.

I'm 27 Legacy with 2 50's, a 40, a 36, and several 20's.  I have ZERO desire to level another toon just to have a different race.  If that's what legacy primarily gets me, I'm going to be pissed.

[Bunk]

Do you people, like just sit in your office playing video games all day? Stop it! Your extreme devotion and apparently unlimited free time is ruining my casual hobby!

[Sjofn]

I have two 50's and three others in the low 40's. I am crazy and not normal. I've been assuming normies have one 50 or less (Ingmar only has two because of meeeeee).

Think I hit legacy level 28 yesterday, and I, too, will be sad if Legacy shit is mostly for new characters, although I have steeled myself to accept it if this is the case.

[Medic975]

I have 2 50's a couple of mid 30's a high 20's and some others. I might delete any of the below 20'a but it would hurt due to I craft on them. I wish I had known about the legacy system and I would have left more than one slot open.

[Miasma]

When I left I had my main at 47 or so and seven alts of each class at 10-12, just off the starter planets.  If this legacy system only applies to characters made after they implement it I will never resubscribe.

[Sky]

I think I'm legacy level 8 or 9. Maybe 6. And I was in the first day of pre-release.

I've already axed one level 11 character that I just played for grins when my buddy came over; my trooper is probably next; just holding the name on him.

[Bandit]

I have played pretty consistently since launch (roughly 2 hrs day) -> my highest is 41 and 3 other alts on Shien ranging from 12-23.  I have a legacy level of 1  , as I never rushed through anything. It took quite a while before I caught up with the story on my main to actually complete chapter 1.  I was doing content that I was completely overleveled for, but I just couldn't bring myself to abandon quests to push the story forward.

I am amazed by people with multiple 50's and people bored already with end game content.  I am still quite enjoying the game and getting my money's worth, like most things it probably works best in moderation.

[Rasix]

I just hit level 30!    This won't get any better with ME3 coming.

[Ingmar]

I worry about the Legacy thing. I ended up choosing the absolute worst class as a soloing main character (Jedi Knight Sentinel) and it took me so long to finally reach the end of Chapter One that by that time I had rolled and played several alts to L20+... all that potential Legacy exp wasted. Considering I got into the early start and have only taken a week's break from the game over the Christmas period, I've yet to pass Legacy Level 5.
Their complete lack of transparency about what Legacy means and will do is incredibly frustrating to me. It's like holding a cake over my head that I'm not tall enough to reach and goading me with how delicious it might taste.

XP you get after you hit cap still counts towards your legacy level so don't worry too much about wasting it.

[Lantyssa]

But given that Rift seems to be a modest success at best, and if SWTOR goes the same way we may have to revise that line of thought.  If good launches and good leveling experiences aren't enough - then where do we turn?  End game? PvP? 

Investment costs make a huge difference.  For all we know, Rift is profitable and SWTOR is not, and I imagine Trion was a lot smarter about development costs.

[eldaec]

Unless you've been dreaming of a blue republic dude, or a green imperial lady, you are all way overestimating the impact legacy is going to have on this game.

[Rokal]

After finishing Act 1, our duo is unsubbing for a month or two. Initial Act 2 storyline for BH/Inquis wasn't super promising, and Mass Effect 3 is next week. Only enough room in my life for one Bioware space RPG at a time 

[Sky]

Investment costs make a huge difference.  For all we know, Rift is profitable and SWTOR is not, and I imagine Trion was a lot smarter about development costs.

I'd be surprised if they haven't made a nice bundle on Rift. The quoted numbers I remember for Trion were for three games, I don't remember them releasing costs for Rift alone.

Unless you've been dreaming of a blue republic dude, or a green imperial lady, you are all way overestimating the impact legacy is going to have on this game.

This. I'm hoping eventually they expand it, but expect full force BWA weirdness in effect. Like the announced unlock of being able to dance with your companion. I'd prefer unlocking a dance mocapped with someone who can actually dance, not Elaine Benes.

[Sjofn]

I am amazed by people with multiple 50's and people bored already with end game content.  I am still quite enjoying the game and getting my money's worth, like most things it probably works best in moderation.

For what it's worth, I'M not bored with end game content. I've only done a couple of level 50 normal flashpoints. But as the healer, with a tank who was totally overgeared for them, it was boring as fuck and I'm being a pain in the ass about doing any more.    I should really do some heroics, I think we're probably geared for them. Slap has enough 50's to raid but not enough healers lying around.

[Fordel]

I've also read that you only need 1 tank for 8 man raids.

[Sjofn]

And we, of course, have like ... 70 of them.

[Evildrider]

I've also read that you only need 1 tank for 8 man raids.

Negative.  There aren't many, but there are a couple fights where 2 tanks are necessary.  The Puzzle boss/robot in Karaggas is a big one.  Also if on Hard or Nightmare Jarg and Sorno.

[UnSub]

But given that Rift seems to be a modest success at best, and if SWTOR goes the same way we may have to revise that line of thought.  If good launches and good leveling experiences aren't enough - then where do we turn?  End game? PvP? 

Investment costs make a huge difference.  For all we know, Rift is profitable and SWTOR is not, and I imagine Trion was a lot smarter about development costs.

Based on internet links, RIFT cost over US$50m to develop.

It was announced that Trion generated US$100m in revenue in the 10 months since RIFT launched. I'm not sure how they treated the venture capital they received in that figure - if they slipped that into the revenue column, then it's easy to see how they reached that figure, given they got US$85m in investment. If they don't include that VC amount, then it was a very good performance (although as always revenue != profit).

Plus I think they self published? That would have helped quite a bit. SWOR is battling having EA, BioWare and LucasArts all wanting a slice of the revenue.

[Wolf]

Bioware is EA. Rift was published by Ubisoft - straight distribution deal for a cut of box prices/time card sales.

Also didn't trion say that Rift was the testbed for their engine, they will be using for all of their future titles? I remember there being some fancy technical word about how the actual rifts work technologically.

[UnSub]

EA and BioWare are linked, of course, but EA would want some of that revenue syphoned off to other projects and how things like customer service are funded. Guess it depends on how they split the bills.

Didn't Ubisoft only publish RIFT in Europe? I thought that Trion self-published in the US.

[Wolf]

yes, you're right about ubi and US

[Margalis]

The interesting thing about that for me (aside from what has already been said here), is how much they focused on launch being great.   Rift had a great launch as well.   I remember there used to be a lot of discussion about bad launches being the cause of lost players.  "People aren't willing to wait around for a game to become good anymore" we said.  I've said it myself.  But given that Rift seems to be a modest success at best, and if SWTOR goes the same way we may have to revise that line of thought.  If good launches and good leveling experiences aren't enough - then where do we turn?  End game? PvP? 

I've probably said this 100 times but for the most part MMOs are in retention mode from day 1. That means if you have bad initial sales you're screwed. But it also means if you sell well then quickly drop off you're also screwed.

The selling point of SWTOR has always been story, which is a complete non-factor in long-term retention.

I suspect this will do ok at best and end the era of big-budget WoW clones. The next big thing is going to be something different that captures the imagination, not an unspectacular knockoff of a 2004 release.

[Nevermore]

EA and BioWare are linked, of course, but EA would want some of that revenue syphoned off to other projects and how things like customer service are funded. Guess it depends on how they split the bills.

What customer service? 

[Fraeg]

Voted with my wallet and cancelled.  Just knowing that I don't have to bother doing my pvp dailys/weeklys has brightened my day   

Many things that bothered me with the pvp, but 2 weeks straight with zero Battlemaster commendations was the straw that broke this camels back.

[Nevermore]

Which, ironically, they're changing in about a week or so.

[eldaec]

EA and BioWare are linked, of course, but EA would want some of that revenue syphoned off to other projects and how things like customer service are funded. Guess it depends on how they split the bills.

EA and Bioware aren't 'linked', Bioware is a department of EA. Saying they are 'linked' is like saying SOE is only 'linked' to Sony, or the XBox division of MS is 'linked' to MS and that Everquest or HALO have to make more money than other games because they have to give a fee to Sony/MS.

[Furiously]

The interesting thing about that for me (aside from what has already been said here), is how much they focused on launch being great.   Rift had a great launch as well.   I remember there used to be a lot of discussion about bad launches being the cause of lost players.  "People aren't willing to wait around for a game to become good anymore" we said.  I've said it myself.  But given that Rift seems to be a modest success at best, and if SWTOR goes the same way we may have to revise that line of thought.  If good launches and good leveling experiences aren't enough - then where do we turn?  End game? PvP? 

I've probably said this 100 times but for the most part MMOs are in retention mode from day 1. That means if you have bad initial sales you're screwed. But it also means if you sell well then quickly drop off you're also screwed.

The selling point of SWTOR has always been story, which is a complete non-factor in long-term retention.

I suspect this will do ok at best and end the era of big-budget WoW clones. The next big thing is going to be something different that captures the imagination, not an unspectacular knockoff of a 2004 release.

I heard that IMVU is growing 600% a year....

[Kageru]

A lot of retention is about faith. There's a huge difference between "The game is half baked, but Bioware are on top of it and we know fixes / good things are coming" and "The game is failing, people are leaving, Bioware has no clue or plan". In terms of their ability to inspire the community they're definitely encouraging the latter view and that will cost them in subs. The fact they only seem to communicate with their community through tweets is appalling.

I expected the star wars name to grant them a lot more subscribers and "stickyness" than a generic IP, but I'm not even sure that's enough any more. And hopefully this establishes that "story as the fourth pillar of an MMO" is understood to mean spending excessive amounts of money on non-interactive and rapidly consumed content.

[Rokal]

The fact they only seem to communicate with their community through tweets is appalling.

You know, aside from the weekly Q&A they do, which is substantially more community interaction than any other MMO dev at this point 

Regardless of whether SWTOR is destined to fall short of expectations, the negativity surrounding the game here and elsewhere online is ridiculous. Just like it is for every MMO.