Patch Notes

[Sjofn]

Well for artificing, it would be nice if my top level shit was actually for level 50 instead of level 47 or whatever.

I think of it this way. If I can make stuff EQUAL to the commendation shit, at least people could make the decision "do I want to just spend credits, or do I want to farm commendations?"

[Simond]

From a game design perspective, the "AFK crafting" ability of your pets means that if crafting produced items equivalent to actively running content, then running content would be discouraged ("I have to spend time making a group, then spend time actively controlling my character, then have a chance of getting loot" versus "Send out my minions and go do dailies/huttball/dick around while they gather enough crap for me to get a guaranteed items"). Therefore, from a PvE balance perspective, crafting must always be slightly inferior to equivalent drops (i.e. the L47 vs L50 thing).

[Sjofn]

The commendation shit doesn't require a group.

[Azuredream]

From a game design perspective, the "AFK crafting" ability of your pets means that if crafting produced items equivalent to actively running content, then running content would be discouraged ("I have to spend time making a group, then spend time actively controlling my character, then have a chance of getting loot" versus "Send out my minions and go do dailies/huttball/dick around while they gather enough crap for me to get a guaranteed items"). Therefore, from a PvE balance perspective, crafting must always be slightly inferior to equivalent drops (i.e. the L47 vs L50 thing).

I don't think that really matters. The wall in crafting is the time in acquiring the components, not the actual act of crafting itself.

[tmp]

From a game design perspective, the "AFK crafting" ability of your pets means that if crafting produced items equivalent to actively running content, then running content would be discouraged ("I have to spend time making a group, then spend time actively controlling my character, then have a chance of getting loot" versus "Send out my minions and go do dailies/huttball/dick around while they gather enough crap for me to get a guaranteed items").

So, it must be discouraged because otherwise someone could skip content so they'd meantime dick around with some other content? How's that negative effect that has to be discouraged, exactly?

[eldaec]

Nothing else counts as content to a man trying to fill a group to do a thing.

[tmp]

As Sjofn said though, people can just as well dick around with single player content to get tokens and buy their (better) mods that way. And those yearning for a group are left FOREVER ALONE just the same.

speaking of forever alone, my consular finally got to meet Grand Moff Kilran in person yesterday, and she got totally ignored in favour of some sentinel slut who won all conversation rolls

[Arinon]

To me the only purpose in crafting should be to make some small subsection of items an order of magnitude easier to get.  Weaponsmiths should be able to get themselves a good weapon while leveling up, a group level weapon solo, and a raid level weapon with a group.  Maybe a few consumables on the side. If it can't do that it's pointless.

Crafting in TOR barely meets one of those requirements from what I've seen.

[Azuredream]

To me the only purpose in crafting should be to make some small subsection of items an order of magnitude easier to get.  Weaponsmiths should be able to get themselves a good weapon while leveling up, a group level weapon solo, and a raid level weapon with a group.  Maybe a few consumables on the side. If it can't do that it's pointless.

Crafting in TOR barely meets one of those requirements from what I've seen.

It depends on the craft skill. I'm not sure about the other 5, but Synthweaving is pretty much exactly what you just said, useful armor while leveling, decent group level stuff with the epic UT components and epic raid quality gear with the Crystal Alloys from hard modes.

[Miasma]

You should all go cybertech and then undercut each other on the gtn so I have a plentiful supply of cheap mods.  Strength/endurance and cunning/endurance for my annoying companion please.

[Simond]

The commendation shit doesn't require a group.

Yes, but you're actively doing that, rather than sending off your minions and going and doing something else simultaneously.

[Sjofn]

You pretty much have to actively collect the mundane components unless you really, really don't want to have any money at all.

[tmp]

Yes, but you're actively doing that, rather than sending off your minions and going and doing something else simultaneously.

You are still doing something actively either way.

[Threash]

Isn't making the biochem stuff require biochem just going to make biochem even more mandatory? at least before you could buy an "almost as good" option, now you can't even do that.

[Azuredream]

The change is to fix someone leveling Biochem up to 400 to grab the items and then dropping it in favor of another crew skill. Right now you can theoretically have the crafter-only benefits from two crew skills when you should only be able to benefit from one. I think they should add reusable adrenals that are useable by non-Biochems however. Make them less effective than the biochem-only versions, but at least have them be available. It seems pretty unfeasible to expect people who aren't Biochems to stock up on Adrenals that only last 15 seconds and cost a lot of mats.

[Fordel]

The change is to fix someone leveling Biochem up to 400 to grab the items and then dropping it in favor of another crew skill. Right now you can theoretically have the crafter-only benefits from two crew skills when you should only be able to benefit from one. I think they should add reusable adrenals that are useable by non-Biochems however. Make them less effective than the biochem-only versions, but at least have them be available. It seems pretty unfeasible to expect people who aren't Biochems to stock up on Adrenals that only last 15 seconds and cost a lot of mats.

Yea, the Adrenals are nuts, having a cheap to make green version would go a long way.

[eldaec]

The change is to fix someone leveling Biochem up to 400 to grab the items and then dropping it in favor of another crew skill.

Remind me again why *this* is the key problem?

I mean, it seems at bit of a kludge; but if this is really worth doing, isn't it really telling you about a different underlying issue.

Simplest biochem nerf would have been to make purples tradable. Bind on use and 20 charges each if you must.

[Fordel]

The change is to fix someone leveling Biochem up to 400 to grab the items and then dropping it in favor of another crew skill.

Remind me again why *this* is the key problem?

I mean, it seems at bit of a kludge; but if this is really worth doing, isn't it really telling you about a different underlying issue.

Simplest biochem nerf would have been to make purples tradable. Bind on use and 20 charges each if you must.

It's not the problem, but it's the start of the fix.

Like say we make Armortech as useful as Biochem, but Biochem still lets you do that skill up and dump shenanigans. That would just ensure everyone has to skill biochem as a prereq before going to their 'real' craft.

[tmp]

It's not the problem, but it's the start of the fix.

On the other hand if the 'fix' is because "right now you can theoretically have the crafter-only benefits from two crew skills when you should only be able to benefit from one" ... then it is quite selective way to look at the problem, since it ignores that it's perfectly possible to have the benefits equal to those who trained artifice, armstech etc without even taking up that skill, let alone training it all way up and then dropping.

[Fordel]

It's not the problem, but it's the start of the fix.

On the other hand if the 'fix' is because "right now you can theoretically have the crafter-only benefits from two crew skills when you should only be able to benefit from one" ... then it is quite selective way to look at the problem, since it ignores that it's perfectly possible to have the benefits equal to those who trained artifice, armstech etc without even taking up that skill, let alone training it all way up and then dropping.

Which goes in hand with them having to make the other crafts more desirable in some fashion to the people who hold them. That's not a quick fix that they can just slap in right away though. The BioChem thing is.

[ajax34i]

They are patching 1.1 tomorrow, 8 hours.

[Paelos]

Awesome, good for them on their content generation so far. Let's hope it's not bugged to shit and back.

[Nevermore]

That was quick.  WoW had me used to seeing major patches announced, then taking 3 months to finally make it to the live servers.

[Nebu]

They are patching 1.1 tomorrow, 8 hours.

I'm going to miss killing level bad 50's with my low level alts.  Still, I'm very excited about this patch... particularly the change to stims/adrenals.

[tmp]

The patch postponed "for a few days"

[Surlyboi]

That was quick.  WoW had me used to seeing major patches announced, then taking 3 months to finally make it to the live servers.

You jinxed it. 

[jakonovski]

Well fuck me, I was really looking forward to it.

[luckton]

Not really surprising, but I wish they would at least rekick the servers if anything.  I seem to get Error 9000 bullshit the longer the servers stay up...after a week or so, it's almost every 5 minutes 

[Der Helm]

Well fuck me, I was really looking forward to it.

Me too.

Now I am wondering if I want to give them more money eventhough they have not figured out the retarded low level PvP situation. ( The lvl50 bracket is supposed to be introduced with this patch, no ? )

[Merusk]

Not really surprising, but I wish they would at least rekick the servers if anything.  I seem to get Error 9000 bullshit the longer the servers stay up...after a week or so, it's almost every 5 minutes 

I've found it's only certain planets and times of day.  I got my first ever last week playing my sith warrior on DK on Thursday.  The zone pop was ~109.  I got 3 on sunday while running around Nar Shadda and the zone pop was ~98.

[Paelos]

Don't be shocked if this was a business move. They are probably going to release the patch right after the 20th, exactly the 30 day free period after release has run out.

[Nebu]

Don't be shocked if this was a business move. They are probably going to release the patch right after the 20th, exactly the 30 day free period after release has run out.

I disagree.  If they did it now, they may retain pvp enthusiasts that are < level 50.  Right now as a sub 50 or a newly made 50, you'll get insta-crushed by premades with stims, adrenals, and battlemaster gear in pvp.  I have full Champ gear and can get killed by the top players in about 6s.

[Threash]

Don't be shocked if this was a business move. They are probably going to release the patch right after the 20th, exactly the 30 day free period after release has run out.

Nah, there really was a shit ton of problems with the patch.

[jakonovski]

Don't be shocked if this was a business move. They are probably going to release the patch right after the 20th, exactly the 30 day free period after release has run out.

Nah, there really was a shit ton of problems with the patch.

Can you elaborate?

[Wolf]

Don't be shocked if this was a business move. They are probably going to release the patch right after the 20th, exactly the 30 day free period after release has run out.

I disagree.  If they did it now, they may retain pvp enthusiasts that are < level 50.  Right now as a sub 50 or a newly made 50, you'll get insta-crushed by premades with stims, adrenals, and battlemaster gear in pvp.  I have full Champ gear and can get killed by the top players in about 6s.

Is it a matter of getting trained, or are you getting dropped 1v1? Is it all classes or just the energy classes with the big alphas (sniper/gunslinger; merc/commando?)? Just curious. Because if it's the latter I so called it a month ago.