Patch Notes

[cironian]

I just browsed a bit on the current info on threat mechanics, since I wasn't really sure myself. It looks like it's really screwed up... You need to be super-close, clipping way into the body of the mob for most bosses for the melee effect to trigger. Which is not really a threat bonus but a switch in AI behaviour to make it easier to grab aggro. Taunts on the other hand give more of a threat bonus when you trigger them from outside that reduced melee range.

So your perfect tank would stand within the enemy most of the time, then move away to taunt then move into the enemy again.
edit: or just spam taunt at max range at all times. should finish reading before posting.

Found it here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=341126

[caladein]

Yeah, I'm not sure who was the bright spark that thought Taunt doing anything when you already have the most threat was a good idea, but I'd like to smack them with a newspaper.

E: Missing word was missing.

[Minvaren]

Seems they finally fixed the spaaaace combat sync issue.

...by dropping you into the spaaace battle 10-15 seconds before the mission officially starts.   

[Ingmar]

I've heard that's not really a problem anymore but I haven't tested it recently myself.

EDIT: Oops, missed a page. Was replying to Lanty.

[Paelos]

Yeah, I'm not sure who was the bright spark that thought Taunt doing anything when you already have the most threat was a good idea, but I'd like to smack them with a newspaper.

E: Missing word was missing.

To be fair, tanking has been fucked up since release. They are just trying to put some duck tape on it.

[Ingmar]

I don't think the taunt thing is duct tape, it has been like that since release. It just took players a long time to figure it out since we all just assumed it would work the same as WoW.

[Paelos]

I don't think the taunt thing is duct tape, it has been like that since release. It just took players a long time to figure it out since we all just assumed it would work the same as WoW.

Do you believe it's a good mechanic that should exist?

[Sjofn]

When you say it's duct tape, you make it sound like they added this in to fix a problem. Stupid mechanic or not, it's not something they randomly threw in to fix a problem.

[Paelos]

When you say it's duct tape, you make it sound like they added this in to fix a problem. Stupid mechanic or not, it's not something they randomly threw in to fix a problem.

That's a really dumb thing to argue over. It's a stupid mechanic. Call it whatever you like.

[Lantyssa]

Electrical tape.

[Ingmar]

I don't know if it is stupid or not, really - games have done it both ways and I'm not sure if I have a preference. It isn't the way WoW does it, so yeah, if you think WoW's version of taunting is the best way to do it, then this probably looks stupid. I do find it kind of hard to get used to thinking about it this way, but that's tons of years of WoW warrior affecting me.

In any case my original point was this is not some change they made flailing around trying to fix the taunt system, this is their actual design. Better tooltips and a working combat log would have made us figure out how it works a lot faster, that's the part I would criticize myself.

[Fordel]

The only thing truly stupid about it, is them not telling us how taunting worked right off the bat. That would of saved a lot of Guardians a lot of Grief.

It's not that different then just increasing the threat mod by 5000% or whatever happens in WoW now.

[Paelos]

The only thing truly stupid about it, is them not telling us how taunting worked right off the bat. That would of saved a lot of Guardians a lot of Grief.

It's not that different then just increasing the threat mod by 5000% or whatever happens in WoW now.

Spamming a look at me button, to me, seems a lot different than increasing a threat mod.

I agree the tanking tooltips were horrific. If memory serves, only one or two actually referenced threat at all.

[Sjofn]

would of

Would HAVE, you sonofabitch.


That said, I don't have a huge amount of trouble holding aggro on something I intend to hold aggro on, and this is without spamming taunt. The only time there's a problem is when Ingmar or his companion (not so much mine, as I usually have the healer pet out) decide to focus on something that isn't my main target, which is ... pretty much the same it's always been, really. HOWEVER, I haven't actually tanked a flashpoint since level 30-ish (maybe even earlier) because Slap has pretty much no healers.

[Nevermore]

Transfer your Paladin over. 

[Sjofn]

I already have TWO level 50 healers on the Republic side (and one on the Imperial side, now!). My point is if Slap does a flashpoint, I have to be the one healing it.

[Surlyboi]

I'll just die and be done with it.

[Nevermore]

I already have TWO level 50 healers on the Republic side (and one on the Imperial side, now!). My point is if Slap does a flashpoint, I have to be the one healing it.

My point is you enjoyed Paladin healing waaaaaaaay too much.   

[Sjofn]

The trooper is close enough. 

[Fordel]

The only thing truly stupid about it, is them not telling us how taunting worked right off the bat. That would of saved a lot of Guardians a lot of Grief.

It's not that different then just increasing the threat mod by 5000% or whatever happens in WoW now.

Spamming a look at me button, to me, seems a lot different than increasing a threat mod.

I agree the tanking tooltips were horrific. If memory serves, only one or two actually referenced threat at all.

Not when they increase the threat mod so much that EVERY button a tank pushes is a "look at me" button. 

It's once every 15 seconds off the GCD for single target, if you hit it as much as possible. It's a non-issue.

[FieryBalrog]

It's a bit weird to have the look at me button be the same as the get back on me button.

[Paelos]

It's stupid. The idea of a taunt is to get something to notice you when it's not currently focused on you. Your other abilities are supposed to keep it on you.

I will give Blizzard credit for reworking shield block and heroic strike because it was getting spammed on every available cooldown by tanks. That's not what I would consider to be the purpose of tanking. They removed things which were no longer optional for tanks, and made them more situational. The taunt should be that, a situational ability, not a spamhole.

[Sjofn]

It isn't, though, not really. It CAN be, but I'm pretty sure most tanks aren't doing that, and doing fine.

I like that if you use it on something already on you, it does something instead of nothing more than making me go "shit, whoops" and it being on cooldown.

[Sky]

That's not what I would consider to be the purpose of tanking.

You should turn your ideas into gold!

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22056.0

[caladein]

I don't really care one way or another about the concept of "Taunt", what I do care about is that is by far and away the best threat button one can push as a tank.  And almost as importantly, that the game doesn't do one thing to explain that, either through tooltips or exposing threat data through the UI.

As a napkin math exercise, here's a graph!  Y is threat, X is time in seconds.



The red line is sort of the worst case scenario from switching a non-taunting to a taunting rotation: only 500 TPS, no increase in APM, and the taunts are replacing "average" threat generating abilities.  Realistically, taunts aren't on the GCD, it's only four or five extra APM, and I'm pretty sure raid tank TPS goes a good deal higher, but I'm not in a position to look at others' logs right now.


E: Added link to sheet.
E2: Grammar...

[UnSub]

Electrical tape.

Duck tape.

[Ingmar]

Electrical tape.

Duck tape.

Rabbit season!

[Sky]

Electrical tape.

Duck tape.

Rabbit season!

[Ingmar]

They fixed the companion implant stat bug last night! 

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/1.2.2/512012

[Sjofn]

Target Markers can now be bound to keys in the preferences menu.

That should please some of the people of Slap.

[DraconianOne]

Target Markers can now be bound to keys in the preferences menu.

That should please some of the people of Slap.

I missed that in the notes. Brilliant! Will make targeting healers in warzones so much easier! 

[Minvaren]

FWIW, it looks like there's a notable mission item bug that they're patching tomorrow AM after last night's patch.

[Fordel]

Disappearing trinkets, nice. 

[Lantyssa]

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