Noob questions

[Nebu]

WZ's are most fun between level 30 and 49.  I strongly encourage trying them.

[Zetor]

I agree with that (on my healer sage I pvp'd pretty extensively in that range) and the lack of a gear grind is a definite plus. I suspect it is in no small part due to a lot of people playing at that point who aren't that serious/hardcore/good at pvp (and are just doing it as a leveling diversion or whatever), though.

[Fordel]

The class dynamics are completely different at the sub 50 range, due to the flat gear and the mixture of class abilities/scaling.

[Tannhauser]

More questions...

1.  If a companion has +15 efficiency in Cybertech what does that mean exactly?  I think the other bonus is a crit bonus, forget its name now.
2.  Are there companion missions at certain loyalty levels?  I maxxed out Blizz and he just basically said 'thanks'.  Gault tried to involve me in a scam which I refused.  He then brought up some female but I didn't get a quest that he really seemed to feed me.  I feel like I'm in a blind spot here.  I did Mako's quest line did I outlevel the others?
3.  Can a fully specced Scoundrel heal good in a flashpoint?  Where does he rank in Republic healers?
4.  Is there another way to get Rank 7 and 8 crafting schematics besides Fleet Commendations?  They are random and that worries me.

My googlefu has been weak on these issues.

[Sjofn]

1) Efficiency means they'll complete the task faster.

2) Only the first companion has real quests. Some companions are much more obvious than others that they were supposed to have quests that got cut for time.

3) All the healers, if specced for it, make fine healers. I like the trooper best for PvE, and the sage is the most idiot-proof, but a good scoundrel is a good healer.

4) I don't know, as I haven't bothered!

[koro]

As far as general use and flashpoints and such things go, all healers are pretty equally capable. However, if you get into raiding/operations, things get a bit different. In some fights, some healers have a very noticeably easier time of things than others, and some combinations of healers make certain fights go much smoother.

My raid team typically runs with a Sorcerer (Sage) and an Operative (Scoundrel) healer. The Operative is fantastic at keeping the tanks up and quickly topping off individuals in the raid, and the Sorcerer does a bang-up job of keeping multiple people going through bubbles and AoE heals. However, if our Sorc can't make it and we bring in one of our Mercenary (Commando) healers, then certain raid bosses with lots of raid-wide damage going around (Zorn & Toth in Explosive Conflict, the Dread Champions in Terror From Beyond, etc.) become an absolute nightmare for our Mercs to keep up with; they just don't have the toolset to account for that. Likewise, in fights with a lot of movement, our Sorcs are kind of neutered.

It's nothing insurmountable, of course, but at that level of play the "separate but equal" class design breaks down a bit when it runs into raid encounter design.


Similar problems crop up with the three tanks as well, by the way. In many ways they're even less equally capable between themselves than the three healers are.

[Zetor]

I agree with that (on my healer sage I pvp'd pretty extensively in that range) and the lack of a gear grind is a definite plus. I suspect it is in no small part due to a lot of people playing at that point who aren't that serious/hardcore/good at pvp (and are just doing it as a leveling diversion or whatever), though.

To follow up on this, apparently there are some people (on EH, even) that keep their characters at level 49 (quitting right before a WZ completes so they don't get xp) and trick them out in the best available gear + augments from flashpoints etc. THIS could be pretty detrimental to the game depending on how big the warzone population is, and reminds me of WOW vanilla/BC twinking until Blizzard implemented the "if you're turning xp off, you're getting put in your own queue" thing.

e: and yeah, I'm fully aware that this problem is probably overstated and/or dramatized because lol official forums. Still, I don't like the fact that it's possible to do in the first place...

[koro]

I've run into that a bit on Shadowlands, and it's quite annoying having multiple people suddenly drop out of your warzone group at the 11th hour to avoid leveling.

I wouldn't say no to being able to turn off XP, but be limited to the normal 10-49 bracket. The amount of twinking one can do at that level is so minor that I'd go so far as to say that aspect of it is a non-issue. If the twinking half is really  that big of a game-changer, you can completely kneecap the worst of it by making tier 22 item modifications (armorings/mods/enchancements/augments) have a requirement of level 50 instead of 49.

[Amaron]

I'm not sure, I played both WOW as a new 90 and Rift as a green-geared 50 (this was before the expansion though) and I felt much more effective / had a lot more fun than I did in swtor with my full recruit gear.

That has a lot more to do with who queues up for BG's in WoW.  Mostly it's people doing the humongous honor grind.  You also run into serious pvpers a lot more in SWTOR.   In WoW they'll be doing arenas or whatever.   Here they queue up and crush you for the daily.

Maybe it's slightly worse as a new 50 but you can get competitive gear so insanely fast that it's far better in the end.

[Zetor]

In my experience, the honor grind wasn't 'humongous' in WOW at all (both in cata and mop), certainly faster than the warzone commendation grind in SWTOR 1.0 and you could speed it up even more if you run a few AVs during AV weekend or whatever. Conquest points take much longer, just like ranked warzone comms (can you even get those without running a full premade in ranked WZs?), and the biggest failing of the WOW honor/conquest system is how long it takes to get a pvp weapon (which is huge). How many matches does it take (assume a 50% win rate to be generous) to get a full suit of battlemaster (and after 1.6, war hero)?

And yes, I consider the 'serious pvpers in swtor have nothing to do but stomp pugs' thing a problem, as running into a 4-man premade in a 10-man battleground when you're in a full pug is basically an instant loss (unless the premade is hilariously bad, which I saw a few times). Premades exist in WOW, but the player pool is so much bigger with the unification of all battlegroups that it hasn't been a problem at all since cata in my experience.

[Sjofn]

I felt like I got my SWTOR-version of an honor suit much faster than I got my honor suit in WoW, but it's honestly been so long (it was Cataclysm, after all) I couldn't really tell you for sure. But it didn't feel particular grindy.

I'm entirely willing to believe that I lucked out and rarely played when pre-mades were playing on Ebon Hawk, but ... I dunno. Maybe because I am never thinking "I MUST PVP TONIGHT" and thus willing to go "yeah not fun tonight" after two matches and do something else (which always happened as a result of the groups I landed in sucking as a whole rather than ZOMG I AM GETTING MURDERRRRRRED :P), it never struck me as terrible?


EDIT: I DO agree that not having a 40-man BG to hide in when you're fresh probably feels frustrating, and some larger-pop BGs would be nice (although they'd probably have to do cross server queues then, and they're all DERPY DOO about those for some reason). But again, I was surprised at how not-shitty my level 50 PvP experience was, after all the bitching and moaning I listened to about it before I decided to give it a whirl.

[Zetor]

I honestly think x-server warzones would help a lot - both in reducing queues and making the pvp experience a bit more varied. And yea, like I said, I *may* have just gotten a bad streak and should probably give level 50 pvp another shot after the scars from my last attempt have healed. :p (Probably right after 1.6 to help with the gear gap problem)

e: most of my trepidation was from the huge shift of how powerful I felt with my characters in January (mix of centurion and champ gear) to how utterly worthless I felt on both of them as a returning player in the 'come-back weekend' (July I think?) with the recruit gear (not sure if it was mk1 or mk2)

[Sjofn]

Cross server queues would be nice, but they seem pretty well set against those, so I've basically put them out of my mind at this point. :P

[Amaron]

In my experience, the honor grind wasn't 'humongous' in WOW at all (both in cata and mop), certainly faster than the warzone commendation grind in SWTOR 1.0 and you could speed it up even more if you run a few AVs during AV weekend or whatever. Conquest points take much longer, just like ranked warzone comms (can you even get those without running a full premade in ranked WZs?), and the biggest failing of the WOW honor/conquest system is how long it takes to get a pvp weapon (which is huge). How many matches does it take (assume a 50% win rate to be generous) to get a full suit of battlemaster (and after 1.6, war hero)?

The system used in SWTOR 1.0 doesn't even exist any longer.  That system didn't even have an honor gear equivalent.  You grinded for top end gear (Battlemaster wasn't even really an upgrade) right from the get go.  Not to mention it was completely random. 

According to this: http://dulfy.net/2012/11/20/swtor-patch-1-6-elite-war-hero-pvp-gear/

It's 10600 total for the whole set (you start with BM relics).  You'll have 2750 saved up by 50 easily. That lets you buy a weapon + some other pieces right away.  First daily/weekly is another 500 right away.   If you try to grind it all out right then I'd say maybe 25 hours for the rest of the set.  I'm not sure how many matches that is but I think 300 wz/hour is very realistic.  It's far less hours overall if you do dailies and weeklies though.   

[eldaec]

In pve has there been some general power buff applied at some point? My guys are chewing through NPCs much quicker than I remember.

[Amaron]

In pve has there been some general power buff applied at some point? My guys are chewing through NPCs much quicker than I remember.

The legacy presence bonuses are pretty crazy at low levels.  Especially if you have a level 50 human.

[eldaec]

That could be it. Against groups of normal mobs Vette is doing more than half the killing now.

[Amaron]

If you have some money you can make things really easy (scavenging can make you plenty just selling laminoid).

1) Buy 11-19 level augments and super cheap Mk-1 augment kits.  Put them in everything.  They're worthwhile all the way to 50.  The Mk-1 kits are cheap so you can even waste them on blues.
2) Keep your tank pimped out.
3) Send in the tank and let him take all the damage.  Unsummon then resummon after the fight = zero downtime.

[Ingmar]

That could be it. Against groups of normal mobs Vette is doing more than half the killing now.

Yeah, it's the legacy stuff. There's no scaling so your companions are extremely powerful at low levels with legacy presence bonuses.

[eldaec]

Can you override low level Aug kits with higher ones?

What I'm thinking is if I put a mk 1 or 2 in my sweet looking orange drop am I going to get irritated when I can't put a mk 5 or 6 in later?

[Lucida]

You can always put in a higher level kit at any time. Just can't put a higher level augment in a low level kit.

[Raguel]

In pve has there been some general power buff applied at some point? My guys are chewing through NPCs much quicker than I remember.

The legacy presence bonuses are pretty crazy at low levels.  Especially if you have a level 50 human.

I had a tank quit on us in Hammer Station. My companion (Corso) had 2k more hp than the tank. 

We were able to finish with 3+ corso, but I had to blow Legacy (Orbital strike, force choke and rocks)

[Ingmar]

My smuggler is in all 51/50/50 enhancements and crafted implants and earpiece - and Risha has more HP than him at level 50. I'm at something like 280 bonus presence right now.

Granted I don't have 'real' gear yet (and not fully augmented), just best-available-through-dailies.

[Zetor]

Dailies. hiss

So I reactivated (mostly because I am weak and the 1.6 changes look promising - also my SWTOR-playing guildie has been badgering me for months now) and so far it's been pretty smooth sailing. One thing that stands out is the Rocket Boost ability from legacy, which is pure  in a box. Faster-than-mount speeds in indoor maps and while in stealth?! Sign me up! I'm actually considering blowing the 2.5mil credits of my level 50s (and/or some of the 500 coin 'allowance') to upgrade the ability even further.

[Ingmar]

I actually don't mind dailies in SWTOR, in a relative sense. The money rewards are *very* good compared to WoW, it seems to me, and the armorings/hilts/barrels are cheap and good. Saving up for the really big ticket items can be a bit tedious, but it doesn't feel as bad as a rep grind.

[Zetor]

My main beef with dailies in any game is that they're a repetitive excuse for content and feel like a chore designed to take ~1 hour of my playtime every day. They're particularly bad in WOW:MOP because they gate so much stuff - including the legendary questline (well, you can get that rep by grinding mobs, but that's even worse). So I just choose to ignore them - regardless of what the rewards are. I prefer getting money/drops by doing things that are fun for me (dungeons and pvp... well, the latter only once 1.6 hits).

I actually went to look at this 'section x' thing and found that it was... a daily quest hub. Yeah no. Thankfully, there's enough of the game that doesn't revolve around dailies - will probably check out the storymode operations once the free tionese (or whatever) gearset comes out so I don't have to try and heal/tank stuff in the really-really-bad mark 1 recruit gear.

[Ingmar]

There's no obligation to do them in SWTOR though like there is in WoW, where specific pieces of gear are tied to specific reputations and their whole gear progression is tied into it, though. They're fully optional for the most part in SWTOR, as long as you're willing to concede one BIS relic. It's just a way to make money and optionally gear up for hardmode flashpoints, which you could do through normal modes or crafting or the AH instead (or just by using your free Tionese suit in 1.6).

[Raguel]

The worst thing I have to say about dailies is that if you use group finder you may find yourself grouped with jerks. I just do them mainly to break up the monotony of soloing all day. Now, doing dailies for gear I can see would be upsetting. I may end up doing that for my sniper + Kaliyo.

[eldaec]

I found I could go straight into hard modes without touching any dailies.

Because, basically, fuck dailies.

[Tannhauser]

One thing I really enjoy is soloing Heroic +2 missions.  Thanks to my legacy, Corso is a pretty tough cookie.  A nice challenging change of pace.

Enjoying the Scoundrel.  Stealth AND healing?  Yes please. 

[Sjofn]

I like doing dailies in SWTOR, 'cause I don't have to, and it gives me something easy to do to remember how the shit to play one of my classes that I haven't touched in two months. And it's easy money, mostly.

[Zetor]

Yea, I can see that - though I just prefer doing an easy dungeon (like a normal-mode Red Reaper or sommat) for that.

Also, are there any other global legacy unlocks that have the   potential of Rocket Boost (I mean srsly, 110% speed boost while stealthed in FPs / indoor areas? wut.)? Trying to decide where to spend my creds (and maybe my CC allowance).


e: random aside - I just did a few lowbie WZs on my level 25 heal-spec agent, and while there doesn't seem to be an apparent advantage from gear, there's an absolutely huge advantage from levels. I know this is "duh"-level stuff, but going in below level 31 at the very least to unlock the instant heal (maybe even 41 to unlock the AOE heal) is a massive disadvantage, and games are almost always decided by who has the more level 40+ people. DPS classes that get their best attack skills early (BH/trooper maybe?) could be an exception to this, but eh.

[eldaec]

Hard mode queuing is I guess functionally similar dailies, but somehow I'm OK with that because the group adds variety to the experience. They seem to turn over about 50-70k per hour (which is usually channeled into twink funding) plus chance of item upgrade.

I also don't mind doing the space daily while I queue. Don't know why that counts as acceptable but it seems to.

The area based dailies I ran once but really can't bring myself to do them twice.

[Zetor]

Yeah, I consider heroic quest queuing just like a "mini-dungeon" (some of the hard modes are actually harder than dungeons even - if you don't have a holy trinity setup and/or are using companions to tank/heal), which is OK, especially if the group finder ports you to the appropriate place etc. It's the regular solo dailies (go there, kill x mobs, get y items, do it again tomorrow) that I can't stand.

[Amaron]

I just did a few lowbie WZs on my level 25 heal-spec agent, and while there doesn't seem to be an apparent advantage from gear, there's an absolutely huge advantage from levels.

Thanks to augments you can actually get quite a gear advantage past 43ish.  Sub 50 pvp is really class specific though.  My sent was doing 200~250k dps all the way from 10 to 50.  The big thing for most classes is finishing your tree.