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Author Topic: Noob questions  (Read 38875 times)
Ironwood
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Reply #735 on: February 14, 2013, 02:24:35 AM

Not really.

They are less interesting than ranged guys because the animations are a bit crap and a bit slow. Also abilities are kind of dumbed down so you never get any synergies going on.

Also all the classes would be more fun if you were fighting bigger groups of weaker mobs.

Yes, this, a lot.

The Sith Juggernaut is an absolute cunt compared to the BH.  Tanking is a world of difference, it's like the Old Vanilla Warrior Versus the New Paladin.  The bounty hunter has cool damage doing AoE coming out his fucking arsehole with more utility than you can shake a stick at and the Sith can barely shout.  The low level instance I ran with the wife last night was utterly fucking painful because of it.

Also, NO synergies at all yet apart from the ever amusing 'choke, hilt bash'   The fact that mobs have shittons of hitpoints isn't so immersion breaking on ranged chaps because, well, shields, but it's just fucking stupid to be banging away at someone with the glowing lolly for 10 minutes.  It takes it from exciting to mundane.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
koro
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Reply #736 on: February 14, 2013, 08:22:39 AM

Also I guess Bioware got sick of people complaining about having no use for Legacy beyond Legacy 25, so they made the third rank of the cooldown reduction to the new Priority Transport: Personal Starship thing require Legacy 50. I'm legacy 48.  Ohhhhh, I see.
Fordel
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Reply #737 on: February 14, 2013, 11:18:11 AM

42 here! Maybe 43? I don't know anymore.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
koro
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Reply #738 on: February 14, 2013, 02:10:13 PM

Even better, the Starship Priority Transport cooldown legacy is broken. Whenever you log out, any purchased ranks disappear. Bioware's acknowledged it's a problem and it'll get fixed, but uh... don't spend any cartel coins on it like some of my guildmates did.
Sjofn
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Reply #739 on: February 15, 2013, 04:33:39 AM

I'm also legacy 48, I hit it just the other night! And I don't plan on getting the legacy 50 thing, because meh. MEH.

God Save the Horn Players
koro
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Reply #740 on: February 16, 2013, 07:24:42 AM

So instead of fixing the Legacy cooldown reduction for the new starship priority transport, they just... kind of... removed the option outright.

I know I shouldn't be surprised, and yet...
Raguel
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Reply #741 on: February 17, 2013, 02:22:47 PM

Day one of 50 pvp was pretty much like sub50 pvp: 2 wins 1 loss, with 2 of the matches being facerolls (I was actually on the winning team in huttball!!). So I think I'm going to keep doing this for awhile. I really enjoy my shadow tank. So much so I've hardly played my other chars except to craft and pvp a bit.
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #742 on: February 18, 2013, 10:03:35 AM

Day one of 50 pvp was pretty much like sub50 pvp: 2 wins 1 loss, with 2 of the matches being facerolls (I was actually on the winning team in huttball!!). So I think I'm going to keep doing this for awhile. I really enjoy my shadow tank. So much so I've hardly played my other chars except to craft and pvp a bit.


Your 50 PvP experience will get worse.  Much worse, unless the Rep/Sith numbers are balanced (not likely).  Just wait until you look at the HP of a DPS caster or healer in the neighborhood of 23K while your fresh 50 wearing the newbie PvP gear is around 15K.  It's awesome getting smoked by a kitted out Marauder in about 3 seconds and not doing a single bit of damage against them.
Raguel
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Reply #743 on: February 18, 2013, 01:38:32 PM


One thing you need to know about me re: pvp is the fact that I used to go to Emain solo on a 35 luirkeen pierc/shield champion, so my idea of fun is a bit different than others.  why so serious?

I still think my biggest problem in WZs is fighting people who hop around. I'm just not fast enough to keep up with them, even using my mouse.
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #744 on: February 19, 2013, 09:52:35 AM

The hopping does nothing but slow them down.  It doesn't affect your hit or miss.  PvP, from 10-49, is fun - probably peaking from about L34 to L49.  Once you get 50?  Not so much.  If you pug it at 50, there's going to be a special place in Heaven / location where you think you go when you die reserved just for you.
Jherad
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Reply #745 on: February 19, 2013, 09:59:01 AM

The level of pain felt whilst pugging is heavily class dependent though. I'd say his choice of Shadow tank is probably going to be infinitely better for that than say DPS commando or sage.

Koro - are you still on Shadowlands? Do I know you there?  awesome, for real
koro
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Reply #746 on: February 19, 2013, 10:02:27 AM

Yes I'm on Shadowlands.

And I don't know, who are you there?
Jherad
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I find Rachel Maddow seriously hot.


Reply #747 on: February 19, 2013, 10:05:45 AM

Republic commando named Zachariah. I used to PvP a lot but I haven't logged on in a little while (1.7 depressed me heh).
koro
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Reply #748 on: February 19, 2013, 10:31:13 AM

Ah. I almost certainly don't know you then. I play Empire 80% of my time, and I PvE 95% of that  time. I only ever really do 50s PvP when a PvP-heavy guildmate manages to needle me enough that I do it just to shut him up for a while, or sometimes when I'm leveling a new alt.
Raguel
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Reply #749 on: February 19, 2013, 01:50:13 PM

The hopping does nothing but slow them down.  It doesn't affect your hit or miss.  PvP, from 10-49, is fun - probably peaking from about L34 to L49.  Once you get 50?  Not so much.  If you pug it at 50, there's going to be a special place in Heaven / location where you think you go when you die reserved just for you.

Are you sure there's no LOS issues? I know I lost one fight pretty badly (sub50). I just assumed it was because I thought I was hitting him and wasn't.

Quote
The level of pain felt whilst pugging is heavily class dependent though. I'd say his choice of Shadow tank is probably going to be infinitely better for that than say DPS commando or sage.

Well, I certainly have more fun on the shadow than I do on my heals scoundrel or commando. I'm sure I'm doing it wrong, but I don't know what.  Ohhhhh, I see.

One thing that annoys/amuses me is that I can't go 2 WZs on my shadow w/o someone trying to guard her and I think I've gotten guard exactly once total on  my scoundrel and commando.
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #750 on: February 19, 2013, 06:19:43 PM

Try it out with a friend.  Duel them and one of you just spaz completely out on the space bar.  Then duel again and just stand there.  Measure the TTK.  It will be the same.  No aiming = no need for bunny hopping.
Ingmar
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Reply #751 on: February 19, 2013, 06:27:34 PM

The hopping does nothing but slow them down.  It doesn't affect your hit or miss.  PvP, from 10-49, is fun - probably peaking from about L34 to L49.  Once you get 50?  Not so much.  If you pug it at 50, there's going to be a special place in Heaven / location where you think you go when you die reserved just for you.

Are you sure there's no LOS issues? I know I lost one fight pretty badly (sub50). I just assumed it was because I thought I was hitting him and wasn't.

LOS does come into play but that would be when they're moving past you, not moving up and down.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Jherad
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I find Rachel Maddow seriously hot.


Reply #752 on: February 20, 2013, 11:54:29 AM

Yeah, the only time jumping helps is if you're ranged and want to fire off a quick instant shot from a spot below LOS (eg. in a dip in Novare, or from behind a wall shooting down in Civil War midfield).

Aside from any psychological factor (and jumping over obstacles), melee jumping only helps their target. Heck, with the auto-facing whilst casting mechanic, even running through you is only of limited value except to try and score positional attacks.

Fordel
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Reply #753 on: February 20, 2013, 01:16:11 PM

Not really.

They are less interesting than ranged guys because the animations are a bit crap and a bit slow. Also abilities are kind of dumbed down so you never get any synergies going on.

Also all the classes would be more fun if you were fighting bigger groups of weaker mobs.

Yes, this, a lot.

The Sith Juggernaut is an absolute cunt compared to the BH.  Tanking is a world of difference, it's like the Old Vanilla Warrior Versus the New Paladin.  The bounty hunter has cool damage doing AoE coming out his fucking arsehole with more utility than you can shake a stick at and the Sith can barely shout.  The low level instance I ran with the wife last night was utterly fucking painful because of it.

Also, NO synergies at all yet apart from the ever amusing 'choke, hilt bash'   The fact that mobs have shittons of hitpoints isn't so immersion breaking on ranged chaps because, well, shields, but it's just fucking stupid to be banging away at someone with the glowing lolly for 10 minutes.  It takes it from exciting to mundane.



If your just looking to see the SW/JK story, try out Rage (Focus for JKs). It's totally fotm and a one trick pony, but it's a really good trick. I basically one shot entire trash packs every 10 seconds or so, using like half the buttons of the tank spec.

Instead of using a dozen attacks that all do like 500 damage, I use half a dozen that all hit for like 1500+ and Smash/ForceSweep hitting ridiculous numbers in the 5k+ range. It's literally charge, crush, scream, smash, loot on the trash packs and the silver elites are dead soon after.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Ironwood
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Reply #754 on: February 20, 2013, 01:25:50 PM

I'm interested in your views and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.


Mor Post strat plz

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Fordel
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Reply #755 on: February 20, 2013, 02:26:18 PM

Some variation of this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZMMZhMRrdfRrfz.2 more or less.

Two Quick points into Immortal for the free Scream after Charge and Obliterate (mini charge), then you go up the Rage tree, grabbing Obliterate, Dominate, Shockwave and Empowering Rage as soon as possible. This is when the shenanigans start to happen basically.


Dominate makes it so after every charge or obliterate, your next Smash will auto crit.

Shockwave makes it so every tick for Force Choke and Force Crush provide a stacking buff, that reduces the rage cost and increase the damage of Smash by 25% each tick, capping at 4 ticks. Flat out makes Smash free and increases it damage by 100%.

Empowering Rage makes it so Enrage (the instant rage builder cooldown) also gives you 4 instant stacks of the shockwave buff too. Also lowers Enrages cooldown.



Gear wise, you just max out Str, Power and Surge.



Then it's just charge in, use a Shockwave builder to get the 4 stack of the buff, then Smash and collect your loot. Clean up anything still alive with Scream/Slash and whatever the Execute is called. If it's still alive, just repeat the combo with the mini Charge ability, or even half the combo.

The catch with the spec, is you are squish squish mc squish, so learn to love your cooldowns/Biochem/Quinn. Your also a sad panda if you don't get to use your combo properly, but you'll have plenty of ways to re-initiate it, so that's less of an issue.



It solves the big issue I always had with JK tank tree leveling for me, the utter lack of effective AE. I basically can't play a spec that can't AE properly.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Zetor
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Reply #756 on: February 20, 2013, 02:50:27 PM

Jumping/bunnyhopping in diku MMOs does have a few advantages, mostly based on the implementation of movement in the air + jump momentum. Just off the top of my head:
- Jump shots while kiting: you can jump away from someone, do a 180 in the air, fire off an instant ranged nuke that requires you to face the enemy, do another 180, land, and repeat. You are essentially hitting your enemy with attacks that require forward facing, while still moving forward at 100% speed (strafing MAY be slower than moving forward, and backpedalling is definitely much slower).
- Jumping charges: A really obnoxious move. If you keep jumping while running away from a melee enemy with a charge, it is very likely that you'll be mid-jump when he uses his charge move. He'll end up where you were, while the jump momentum will carry you out of melee range (and possibly out of LOS). Roots or stuns that the jump applies will still hit you, but you'll be in a much better position to do something about it.
- Jumping other CC: Same as above, if you see an enemy charging a CC that you can't avoid in time, you can jump behind LOS. You'll get CC'd halfway through the jump, but end up being out of LOS for your enemy, so he has to spend precious seconds to get in LOS (also melee range, which is probably not advantageous for him). As a healer, this has saved my butt plenty of times in wow/rift.

Now, I'm not 100% jump momentum works in TOR like it does in WOW and RIFT -- but I have a hunch it does.

Ingmar
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Reply #757 on: February 20, 2013, 02:52:31 PM

Yes and no. You travel slower while jumping than while running so you're not going to be able to use jump-spin-nuke while keeping yourself out of melee range in a SWTOR kiting scenario - the melee guy will catch up with you if you do that.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Ironwood
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Reply #758 on: February 20, 2013, 02:54:26 PM

Hmmm.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Fordel
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Reply #759 on: February 20, 2013, 03:03:50 PM

I want to say CC in swtor will stop you dead in the air and drop you for the most part as well.


It's been awhile since I've hit a WarZone though.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Jherad
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I find Rachel Maddow seriously hot.


Reply #760 on: February 20, 2013, 04:02:42 PM

Yeah, you don't need to do jumpshots in SWTOR. Any instant casts can be shot behind you easily just by strafing at full run speed (one reason why there is no need to backpeddle in PvP). Jumping slows you down.
Lantyssa
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Reply #761 on: February 21, 2013, 07:10:16 AM

Some variation of this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZMMZhMRrdfRrfz.2 more or less.
This is roughly the build I had on my Marauder for a long while, since that's the shared tree.  It was pretty devastating.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Fordel
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Reply #762 on: February 21, 2013, 11:54:21 AM

Yea, works just as well on Marauders pretty much. I think it's getting a little nerf in 2.0 though.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
luckton
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Reply #763 on: February 21, 2013, 01:57:39 PM

It's been over a year since I picked this up, and I've got the itch to try it again.

Did they ever introduce dual-specs?  Or did they ignore the problem long enough that people stopped whining about it?

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Fordel
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Reply #764 on: February 21, 2013, 02:13:37 PM

You can get a thingy that lets you respec in the field, but no true dual-spec system that saves both specs and whatnot.

Subs can respec for free though!

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
luckton
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Reply #765 on: February 21, 2013, 02:25:38 PM

Bah, I'm too cheap to sub for anything anymore.   why so serious?

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Raguel
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Reply #766 on: February 21, 2013, 04:52:49 PM

So I need help playing my  scoundrel and commando (both heals) in pvp.  My survival rate seems pretty low compared to other healers. I guess the first thing I should do is do what they do: cc and run away like crazy.  why so serious?

eta: also I don't remember if I asked this or not but how exactly does defense and shield chance work together? For example if I had 30% in each do I have a 60% chance for defense/shield or is it 51(30 + 70*0.3)%?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 05:13:21 PM by Raguel »
Sjofn
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Reply #767 on: February 21, 2013, 07:00:16 PM

The main thing with my scoundrel is I don't stay still unless I absolutely have to. Does your scoundrel have his free instant heal (and the talent that makes it free if you cast it on someone below 30% (I think?) health)? My entire world changed once I got that.

I didn't like the commando (well, the BH equivilent) in PvP because you have to stand still a lot more, and fuck that!

God Save the Horn Players
Raguel
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Reply #768 on: February 21, 2013, 09:40:32 PM

The main thing with my scoundrel is I don't stay still unless I absolutely have to. Does your scoundrel have his free instant heal (and the talent that makes it free if you cast it on someone below 30% (I think?) health)? My entire world changed once I got that.

I didn't like the commando (well, the BH equivilent) in PvP because you have to stand still a lot more, and fuck that!

Pretty sure I don't have that; the last thing I got was the stackable HoT.
Sjofn
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Reply #769 on: February 21, 2013, 10:36:51 PM

The instant heal is the next "major" thing you get in that tree, I think. It will make your life much easier once you get it. Or at least it did for me!

God Save the Horn Players
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