Mass Effect 3

[tmp]

Didn't the goddamn Protehans build the Citadel? Aren't they the makers of the warp gates?

No, those were all built by the Reapers, supposedly, as honey trap to direct development of organic species in ways that suit the Reapers.

Protheans are just the guys who got wiped out in the previous reaping cycle. They managed to throw a wrench in cogs of Citadel machine but that's it.

(some of them got turned into Collectors by the Reapers and made appearance in ME2 in such form)

[Mosesandstick]

The leaked script seemed to indicate the character isn't trivial. It's not as if Bioware can't write around him but it seems odd that a character involved in the plot was not being developed with the rest of the game at the same time.

[luckton]

Regarding the "preorder ME3 and get BF3 free" thing, yeah, no.

[Merusk]

Regarding the "preorder ME3 and get BF3 free" thing, yeah, no.

Protheans are just the guys who got wiped out in the previous reaping cycle. They managed to throw a wrench in cogs of Citadel machine but that's it.

Didn't the Prothean machine in ME1 also state that the Protheans discovered they were at least the 6th or 7th cycle the Reapers had done as well?

[tmp]

I don't remember the script that well but yeah, my understanding is the Reapers been doing the reaping for a long while now.

and lol at the BF3 thing.

[kildorn]

[Mosesandstick]

My impression was that the Protheans were a lot more advanced than the current civilisations, breaking the cycle might not be the only thing they did.

[kildorn]

My impression was that the Protheans were a lot more advanced than the current civilisations, breaking the cycle might not be the only thing they did.

[Mosesandstick]

To me it just seems more likely that the Prothean represents content they carved from the game and made as DLC as opposed to something they included at the end during the time between certification, etc.

[kildorn]

From a comment by someone from Bioware, it was content that was intended to just be fully cut.

[ajax34i]

[Kitsune]

The Protheans were pretty swank before they got smooshed; they'd learned enough theory to build their own mass relays, so they were approaching the level of technology left by the Reapers despite not having made the Citadel or the big relays.  Had they not been ambushed by the Reapers with the Citadel trap, they probably could have put up a pretty good fight.  The Reapers, of course, were not very interested in a fair fight, so Shepard's Reaper cycle is probably the first one where they're invading a galaxy that is aware of their existence.

...which would make much more of a difference were the council not being deliberately retarded instead of preparing to repel them.   

But anyways, the Collectors are the result of lots of Reaper-modifying and may not resemble Prothians very much.  We'll see.

[Stormwaltz]

The DLC dude was part of the script from the beginning and was mentioned way back when the whole thing first leaked.

The leaked script that BW said did not reflect the current plot of the game?

Okay, I have an anecdote. Maybe it will help.

In Mass 1, Therum was supposed to be much longer. What you saw - the vehicle level and Prothean ruin - was just the last third of the world. What you didn't see was the mining station hub and its massive, intricate plot about a human mafia, a salarian drug cartel, the corrupt "mayor," and the drunken "sheriff." You didn't see it because it all got cut - there wasn't enough time to finish it for ship. Despite the fact that most of the 50,000 words of VO had been recorded and the level design had begun, there wasn't enough time to complete the art, animate the conversations, or test it thoroughly. So a hard decision was made.

Except the partly-completed hub art was finished off and used for the final fight location in the DLC "Bring Down the Sky." So does that mean it counts as content "withheld" from the release?

But wait, there's more.

In ME1, there was to be a side mission in which human machine cultists hijack an asteroid and crash it into a colony. If that sounds familiar, it's because the name of the mission was "Bring Down the Sky." In order to get it in the game for ship, a lot of things would have to be half-assed - no cutscenes, no special level art, very little dialogue, no unique mechanics - just a straight run & gun. But a lot of people liked the idea and wanted to see it done right. So the idea was set aside until the resources existed to do it properly.

And finally, a question:

If Legion had not been on the derelict Reaper, would you have noticed if it wasn't? You'd have lost out on some insight into a mysterious race, but in terms of gameplay, its skills overlap with those of other characters. And the geth station mission could have been kept too - it just wouldn't have had the context Legion provided.

For those who argue that the shooting and not the conversation is the core of the Mass Effect experience, losing that unique party member would have been no loss at all.

[HaemishM]

Legion is just a WEE bit different than the member of a long-extinct race being not so extinct.

[jakonovski]

If Legion's absence had been accompanied by a Legion shaped hole and a $10 price tag, it would've been rather noticeable (plot implications notwithstanding). It remains to be seen how jarring the Jamaican dude's absence is, but whatever the case, it can only serve to weaken the regular edition player's experience.

[Ingmar]

Legion is just a WEE bit different than the member of a long-extinct race being not so extinct.

Yeah, Legion probably has more content than this guy.

[Velorath]

Legion is just a WEE bit different than the member of a long-extinct race being not so extinct.

The Geth figure a lot more prominently into the story, whereas the Protheans are a race whose importance in the lore was largely due to the misconception that they created the Mass Relays and the Citadel.

[jakonovski]

Protheans were also the creators of a tomb planet to escape the Reapers and gave Cletus Shepard the information needed to destroy the Sovereign. So I think they deserve a lot story-wise.

[Margalis]

Bioware's DLC antics sound like Bethesda's "we let the devs see what they could code using the devtoolkit in 3 weeks" and players being angry that all the awesome should have already been in the vanilla Skyrim.

These are nothing alike. I've never heard anyone object to the Bethesda stuff. In fact I would say that Bethesda is probably one of the best companies as far as DLC goes.

If Legion had not been on the derelict Reaper, would you have noticed if it wasn't

If someone went back in time, kidnapped you as a baby, and put you on the moon would you miss the beach? If you grew up in an all-male village would you miss tits?

These types of questions are really irrelevant. The problem with "if it was missing you'd never know" is that in these cases we do know because the developer is telling us and trying to charge extra for it. Sure, things get cut from games, and often times you don't miss them. But when the developer explicitly tells you that a piece is missing then tries to sell it to you the whole "you'd never miss it if you didn't know about it" is purely theoretical.

Also it really bugs me people try to position day 1 DLC as a favor to fans. "We worked really hard to give you even more awesome content!" Day 1 DLC is the most profitable type of DLC. It's day 1 because someone mandated it would be day 1 because they like high revenues. The idea that salaried employees are doing me a favor by going to work is a little silly. If anything the fans are doing you a favor by buying such high-margin content.

[Rokal]

Both sides of the argument should probably just wait for the game to come out before making assumptions about how big of a role the prothean companion actually plays.

[HaemishM]

Legion is just a WEE bit different than the member of a long-extinct race being not so extinct.

The Geth figure a lot more prominently into the story, whereas the Protheans are a race whose importance in the lore was largely due to the misconception that they created the Mass Relays and the Citadel.

Maybe I took it wrong, but through both games, I got the vibe that the Protheans were going to be a HUGE part of how Shepherd was eventually going to defeat the Reapers.

[Paelos]

It doesn't really matter how big of a part the DLC plays. What matters to me is that launch DLC violates the very premise of what DLC is supposed to do. To me, DLC is about continually vitalizing your game post-release. New companions, new quests, new items, new stuff that you didn't have access to in your first playthrough. Maybe six months down the road, they release this DLC and you get a totally new playthrough with a new species/class/weapons/companion/quest. To me that adds value to your product and increases post-release buyers who didn't adopt the game initially.

I believe fully that release DLC continues to drive a wedge between producer and consumer. It's not a good business decision for long-term profit, which I believe left the EA mentality a while ago. They are continually damaging their brand with these moves, and their profits will suffer for it.

[Velorath]

It doesn't really matter how big of a part the DLC plays. What matters to me is that launch DLC violates the very premise of what DLC is supposed to do. To me, DLC is about continually vitalizing your game post-release. New companions, new quests, new items, new stuff that you didn't have access to in your first playthrough. Maybe six months down the road, they release this DLC and you get a totally new playthrough with a new species/class/weapons/companion/quest. To me that adds value to your product and increases post-release buyers who didn't adopt the game initially.

I believe fully that release DLC continues to drive a wedge between producer and consumer. It's not a good business decision for long-term profit, which I believe left the EA mentality a while ago. They are continually damaging their brand with these moves, and their profits will suffer for it.

From what I understand, sales of DLC are a lot higher in the first 2 months of a game's release.  6 months down the line is a long time in the game industry.  For a game released in March like ME3, six months later people are already focused on the big Fall and Holiday releases.

[Ingmar]

Front-loading your DLC also captures more of those "I won't play it til all the DLC is out!" people. Of course, they were created by the existence of DLC in the first place I suppose.

[eldaec]

I'm not sure it will hurt their profits. EA's business model is about building franchise brands, then shovelling as much as possible out the door with the appropriate logo on it.

Given EA are expected to act like douchebags, they may as well take advantage of the low expectations that sets for them.

If Valve or Blizzard started down this road it would cost them, but the difference is that they have goodwill to lose.


Regarding the ongoing prothean debate, you should all remember EA writers and designers are not exactly known for maintaining consistency between games. You have no idea whether protheans are a big deal this week - it depends on the whim of this afternoon's writing tram.

[Rokal]

It doesn't really matter how big of a part the DLC plays. What matters to me is that launch DLC violates the very premise of what DLC is supposed to do. To me, DLC is about continually vitalizing your game post-release. New companions, new quests, new items, new stuff that you didn't have access to in your first playthrough. Maybe six months down the road, they release this DLC and you get a totally new playthrough with a new species/class/weapons/companion/quest. To me that adds value to your product and increases post-release buyers who didn't adopt the game initially.

I believe fully that release DLC continues to drive a wedge between producer and consumer. It's not a good business decision for long-term profit, which I believe left the EA mentality a while ago. They are continually damaging their brand with these moves, and their profits will suffer for it.

From what I understand, sales of DLC are a lot higher in the first 2 months of a game's release.  6 months down the line is a long time in the game industry.  For a game released in March like ME3, six months later people are already focused on the big Fall and Holiday releases.

Rockstar mentioned regretting putting out GTA4 DLC so late after the game came out. What they delivered is what Paelos is saying he wants: long-term, post-release content. When Rockstar delivered that, they found that most people had already moved on past GTA4 and weren't interested in more. More recent Rockstar games have seen DLC much closer to the release date, while people are still interested in playing the game.

It's a little different for a game like Mass Effect, where something like an extra companion as DLC isn't going to be very interesting to people who have already beaten the game and don't really have any content left to do with the companion (aside from that companion's specific mission). This is the boat I found myself in with the Kasumi DLC. She may have been a cool companion, but I wasn't willing to spend $10 for her 40-60 minute mission, and I wasn't interested in playing through the game again.

We'll see just how ingrained the prothean companion is once the game actually comes out, but if their story is true about working on this DLC between gold cert and now, I'd rather see the prothean companion DLC within the launch window instead of 3 months later. As for how it colors my opinion about ME3, as always "is it fun" is going to be the biggest factor of how much I enjoy ME3, not DLC shenanigans.

[Velorath]

If Valve or Blizzard started down this road it would cost them, but the difference is that they have goodwill to lose.

I find the RMT AH to be much shakier ground than DLC.

[Sjofn]

For those who argue that the shooting and not the conversation is the core of the Mass Effect experience, losing that unique party member would have been no loss at all.

 

Legion is just a WEE bit different than the member of a long-extinct race being not so extinct.

The Geth figure a lot more prominently into the story, whereas the Protheans are a race whose importance in the lore was largely due to the misconception that they created the Mass Relays and the Citadel.

Maybe I took it wrong, but through both games, I got the vibe that the Protheans were going to be a HUGE part of how Shepherd was eventually going to defeat the Reapers.

I never got that vibe. I got the sense that perhaps they left shit lying around that would help, or even races from before the Protheans would also leave shit lying around that would help, but I never thought Protheans would be TEH KEY. The key to Shepard defeating the Reapers is going to be Shepard being fucking awesome.


Honestly, this sounds like Shale to me. And frankly I'd rather pay for a Shale-level extra character than a Kasumi-level extra character. But I don't have to have either of them for the plot to make sense and be satisfying.

[Velorath]

I never got that vibe. I got the sense that perhaps they left shit lying around that would help, or even races from before the Protheans would also leave shit lying around that would help, but I never thought Protheans would be TEH KEY. The key to Shepard defeating the Reapers is going to be Shepard being fucking awesome.

Yeah, to me the Protheans' storyline was pretty much "well, we're fucked but we're going to give the next set of Reaper-bait the slimmest of chances to fight back and that's about the best we can do".

[kildorn]

Legion is just a WEE bit different than the member of a long-extinct race being not so extinct.

The Geth figure a lot more prominently into the story, whereas the Protheans are a race whose importance in the lore was largely due to the misconception that they created the Mass Relays and the Citadel.

Maybe I took it wrong, but through both games, I got the vibe that the Protheans were going to be a HUGE part of how Shepherd was eventually going to defeat the Reapers.

Given the plot arc of the games? I'm going 99% on the actual end involving allies and a huge helping of The Human Spirit and a giant Humanity: Fuck Yeah! theme throughout the second half of ME3.

fakeedit: and reading to the end of the thread, I think sjofn beat me to the central theme of Mass Effect.

[Fordel]

Yea, that's always how I've seen the entire MassEffect universe really.


Every other alien species: You can't do that, it's just not done/impossible!

Humanity: THE HELL WE CAN'T!



Like, even Humanities first contact, was basically a big cup of "wait, they did WHAT? To the TURIANS?"

[Sjofn]

The whole HUMANITY: FUCK YEAH is even better when you are MANSHEP, because once in a while he sounds extremely Canadian and that somehow just cracks me the fuck up, because Canada is one of the last countries I think FUCK YEAH type people come from, because I am an American who has her little prejudices.


EDIT: I MAEK SENTENCE NEATUR

[Fordel]

It's not really inaccurate though. We are a humble people.

Unless it's about Hockey, then we'll fuck you up.

[Merusk]

Bioware's DLC antics sound like Bethesda's "we let the devs see what they could code using the devtoolkit in 3 weeks" and players being angry that all the awesome should have already been in the vanilla Skyrim.

These are nothing alike. I've never heard anyone object to the Bethesda stuff. In fact I would say that Bethesda is probably one of the best companies as far as DLC goes.

So.. you missed the whole Horse Armor thing then, eh?

[Sjofn]

It's not really inaccurate though. We are a humble people.

Unless it's about Hockey, then we'll fuck you up.

MANSHEP is probably so grumpy because the Leafs still haven't won the Stanley Cup since <whenever the hell they last won it>.