Patch 4.3 - On a Deathwing and a prayer

[Sjofn]

You may wipe (heroic LK is still a fucking bitch at 85, so many stupid insta-wipe moving parts arghghghgh), but wiping once or twice has never broken up a PUG raid I've been in. Wiping five times on a fight will, but once or twice, especially if the wipes were "good" wipes? Never.

[Phunked]

I think when they say mechanics will be changing it will be much like the Normal-> heroic change.  You don't lose/ gain too many things to think about but the damage done is pretty different.

Using the last Heroic fight I dealt with - Sindragosa - as an example, you've got to worry about one additional ice tomb during air phase and unchained magic does AOE damage instead of just single target damage.   No significant changes but an increased amount of coordination.

For a "raid finder" version, you'd probably only get two air phase tombs and possibly a longer time on the AOE blast after her pull-in.  You've still got the major coordination problems.

If you've ever done old content in PUG raids once it was irrelevant (i.e. doing AQ in early WOTLK) you learned the hard way that even outgearing and out leveling coordination fights still causes wipes.  Twin Emps and C'<whateveR> killed my little AQ Pug a number of times before we got it right and we were all 80 - 20 levels and ridiculous item-levels beyond what it was designed for.

That's...not really how most heroic fights are. I mean, yes okay you are still fighting the same dragon. But simply saying that damage goes up is misleading. Making the explosion from unchained AoE is a completely different beast; one person can trivially wipe the raid on heroic, whereas before that was basically impossible. Also, Sindragosa is a pretty bad example of a seriously different heroic boss; for example Freya heroic, Mimiron heroic and Lich King heroic were not even remotely the same fights. The only instance where heroic was 'like normal but harder' was ToGC, which was, by all accounts, a colossal failure.

The Cata heroic raids are really different from their normal mode versions, so I think it's fairly safe to expect that the easy-mode fights will be, well, easy. They've also gotten very good at overnerfing numbers; our first H-Rag kill was a good 3 minutes longer than our last one, and it was almost certainly better executed on our part. The trivialize bat can crush even the most staid of boss dargons.

And @Hawkbit: I sympathize that for people who don't want to raid/group being required to play in real time is kind of annoying, but I think that's one of the trade-offs you make with a multiplayer game in this genre. I realize that it is still occasionally touted as a 'great single player experience, PLUS all this other social stuff' but I'm pretty sure that's a load of crap. As a single player game, WoW is probably very frustrating, not particularly well done and difficult to fit into your schedule. So you know, not fun.

[Hawkbit]

That's basically it, in a nutshell.

I played 40hrs/wk at launch and had a blast.  Raided, did all that stuff.  I had a lot of fun in the game, but watched stuff in my life tank.

Each expansion I've basically seen a 25% reduction in playtime for myself, but it all builds.  Once I went to casual raiding in BC, I had more time for stuff in life, but wasn't really able to keep up in game. 

Maybe when my kid becomes a teenager and no longer wants anything to do with me, then I'll get back into MMOs. 

[caladein]

That's...not really how most heroic fights are. I mean, yes okay you are still fighting the same dragon. But simply saying that damage goes up is misleading. Making the explosion from unchained AoE is a completely different beast; one person can trivially wipe the raid on heroic, whereas before that was basically impossible. Also, Sindragosa is a pretty bad example of a seriously different heroic boss; for example Freya heroic, Mimiron heroic and Lich King heroic were not even remotely the same fights. The only instance where heroic was 'like normal but harder' was ToGC, which was, by all accounts, a colossal failure.

The Cata heroic raids are really different from their normal mode versions, so I think it's fairly safe to expect that the easy-mode fights will be, well, easy. They've also gotten very good at overnerfing numbers; our first H-Rag kill was a good 3 minutes longer than our last one, and it was almost certainly better executed on our part. The trivialize bat can crush even the most staid of boss dargons.

I think you're conflating the mechanical changes with their impact on the strategy.  Or your bar's set differently as you mentioned Mimiron being really different, which I don't think it was even though I enjoyed it a lot.

Of the first six Firelands Heroics, none of them undergo what I believe are dramatic changes.  A low scorpion Normal Majordomo is basically the same as Heroic, just with less "God damnit, I was out of that thing."  Beth'tilac sort of gets there just because the tuning makes everything a massive pain in the ass, but that's it.

[Rokal]

That's basically it, in a nutshell.

I played 40hrs/wk at launch and had a blast.  Raided, did all that stuff.  I had a lot of fun in the game, but watched stuff in my life tank.

Each expansion I've basically seen a 25% reduction in playtime for myself, but it all builds.  Once I went to casual raiding in BC, I had more time for stuff in life, but wasn't really able to keep up in game.  

Maybe when my kid becomes a teenager and no longer wants anything to do with me, then I'll get back into MMOs.  

I get that you can't, at this point, raid regularly with your lifestyle. It doesn't seem like a stretch to suggest that you might be able to find an hour or two spare to run the LFR raids once. If something comes up, you could always bail and let LFR find a replacement anyway.

If you really want to check out the Deathwing fight, it should be pretty easy to do in 4.3 even as someone that doesn't group often. Even easier if you wait a month or two for everyone to over-gear it and learn the fights.

[Shatter]

That's basically it, in a nutshell.

I played 40hrs/wk at launch and had a blast.  Raided, did all that stuff.  I had a lot of fun in the game, but watched stuff in my life tank.

Each expansion I've basically seen a 25% reduction in playtime for myself, but it all builds.  Once I went to casual raiding in BC, I had more time for stuff in life, but wasn't really able to keep up in game. 

Maybe when my kid becomes a teenager and no longer wants anything to do with me, then I'll get back into MMOs. 

Same boat which is why I dont raid anymore, now I play for PvP pretty much or very light PvE(quick instances, etc).  Ive done this now for 4-5 years after being a heavy raider in EQ and WOW for years and I dont see me ever going back to that kind of time commitment, even if I have the time. 

[Simond]

I'm hoping there's still someone at Blizzard with enough common sense to figure out that they still need to put something other than rings and trinkets on the Valour vendor (read: non-set armour of the same or similar ilvl) but my realistic side thinks that won't happen until 4.3.something.

Apparently, the valour point vendor is up on the PTR And...

...it's supposed to have full sets of armour (well, not sets but complete suits, if you know what I mean) as well as rings/trinkets/etc. Looks like someone did think things through. Oh, and DK T13 is on the dull side of mediocre. Hurrah for Judgement recolour + transmog!

[Simond]

DK T13 confirmed (as ugly): http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3840431
Also people bitching about other class sets - look at DK stuff. Blue-grey plate with skulls and horns and a blue glow...quick, which set am I describing? 
And people wonder why I collected the T2 paladin recolour and other stuff.

[Rokal]

The last good DK raid set was warrior T3 :p

[Sjofn]

It's part of why I liked T9 for my (Alliance) DK. It was a nice break from SKULLS SKULLS SKULLS.

[Simond]

Why we need transmogriphication: http://www.orcisharmyknife.com/2011/10/minipost-this-is-why-we-need.html
 

[K9]

If I was playing I might be tempted to transmog my gear just to look like that, just to piss people off 

[Lantyssa]

Just so long as you're not tanking in a dress.  Then we'd have to draw the line.

[Fordel]

Monks will tank in dresses 

[Rendakor]

Judgement, has skirt, best pally set, etc.

[Sjofn]

My poor priest had pants like that in Outland, and it felt like it took FOREVER to get the poor girl a damn robe to hide her shame.

[Merusk]

Monks will tank in dresses 

Nah, most leather gear doesn't have the dress factor unless it's Druid-specific.

[Simond]

Bet you at least half monk gear will be dresses. (The other half will be bondage gear).
WoW was created by EQ fans, remember? 

[Sjofn]

Yeah monk stuff is almost certainly going to be dress-oriented.

[SurfD]

Yeah monk stuff is almost certainly going to be dress-oriented.

Or "kung fu pants" kind of stuff, a-la every fighting character in Dragon Ball Z.

[Merusk]

Pretty much what I'm expecting, yeah. Even the Shaolin don't do kung-fu in dresses.

[Sjofn]

Kung-fu puffy pants are going to just look like dresses in WoW, though.

[Simond]

Guess what a new vendor in Acherus is selling on the PTR?

http://ptr.wowhead.com/search?q=acherus+knight#.
Also: Blue set, first runeblade (the Rivendare-lookalike), both quest reward weapons (sword and axe).

[Lantyssa]

So much for being a unique snowflake.  Still, I'm sure that'll make a lot of people happy.  And a DK not wearing the set rare...

[Ironwood]

I fail to see why any DK would wear anything else.

[Merusk]

I know a few that plan on wearing purple T10.  I imagine there's some who like the other tiers as well.

Then there's the DKs who'll farm a full Lofty or Bloodscale set.

[Rendakor]

I'm probably going to wear the Tier 7.5 stuff on my dk, although I'm also farming up the white recolor of the pally crystal set so I can look like a light warrior!  I'm pretty pissed that they aren't allowing weapon type transmogs and I'm stuck with a stupid axe; I've got a ton of cool swords and don't really feel like running AQ40 for the one axe model I actually like. Did they post the ilvl of the gear from the new raids yet, so i can see how likely it is I can get a non-axe upgrade in the first couple weeks?

[Ironwood]

Wait, we're not allowed to trans with our weapons

Baws.

[Merusk]

No, you can trans weapons you just can't trans-type weapons.

i.e. an Axe can't use a sword model and a 1h weapon can't use a 2h model.  (Except Hunters, who can do it with their ranged weapons.)

I'm ok with the starter armor being available, but I'm slightly miffed that the starter runeblades are.  I've kept those for a long, long time just because they were really cool models.  It's not like bank space was particularly sparse unless you are a pack-rat like myself.

I wonder if this means they'll make the Malefactor's Eyepatch (only mail eyepatch model) available as a vanity skin.

[Ironwood]

Ah, that's ok then.

I wouldn't imagine them doing anything else, to be honest.

[Ingmar]

I still haven't found a 1h axe to have in reserve for my outfit, for those patch cycles when the tanking weapon is an axe. Otherwise I think I'm all set.

[Simond]

I wonder if this means they'll make the Malefactor's Eyepatch (only mail eyepatch model) available as a vanity skin.

How about a monocle instead: http://www.wowhead.com/item=31218

I still haven't found a 1h axe to have in reserve for my outfit, for those patch cycles when the tanking weapon is an axe. Otherwise I think I'm all set.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=31268/abomination-cleaver

[Ingmar]

That doesn't match at all!

Possibly I would go with: http://www.wowhead.com/item=47148

[Setanta]

Guess what a new vendor in Acherus is selling on the PTR?

http://ptr.wowhead.com/search?q=acherus+knight#.
Also: Blue set, first runeblade (the Rivendare-lookalike), both quest reward weapons (sword and axe).

Awesome - I'd kept both both the starter and the questing set but somehow had deleted the boots from the questline. Now I can get them back as both sets are awesome.

[Evildrider]

Soo there are like 30 guardian cubs on the AH on my server.  lol.

WoW and their money hats.