Patch 4.3 - On a Deathwing and a prayer

[Sjofn]

The weapons are not crazy to make.

[Rokal]

Maybe the weapons aren't entirely crazy to make right now. Looking at the mats for the 365 weapons, you'd still be using about 5k worth of mats (before the orbs). You could just run ZA/ZG for a 353 weapon and be happy. Or you could run faceroll t11 for a 365 weapon. Or faceroll T12 for a 378 weapon. Still, I could almost see the argument for maybe crafting a 365 weapon right now if you didn't want to raid.

But in 4.3 when this change is actually coming? You'd have to be crazy. New dungeons will probably drop 378 weapons that you can easily obtain. LFR difficulty will also be implemented so you can run easy mode Dragon Soul for weapons, and there is probably a good chance that T12 will be nerfed further.

I expect we'll see some new crafting recipes in 4.3 that use Chaos orbs, so this change won't be entirely useless, but most of the recipes that use chaos orbs stopped being worth making when the ZG/ZA remakes launched.

[Ingmar]

T11 weapons are 359, and we don't actually know what level the new heroics will drop I don't think. Also worth pointing out that depending on your spec, the 359 crafted items can be better itemized than the 353 stuff from ZA/G.

[Rokal]

T11 weapons are 359, and we don't actually know what level the new heroics will drop I don't think. Also worth pointing out that depending on your spec, the 359 crafted items can be better itemized than the 353 stuff from ZA/G.

As of right now, new dungeon drops are 378 on the PTR. Maybe that will change before release though.

I completely boned up my earlier post. I was talking about the mats for a 359 weapon (~5k). 365 weapons require fiery cores from T12, so the cost for those is 10k+.

[Ingmar]

T11 weapons are 359, and we don't actually know what level the new heroics will drop I don't think. Also worth pointing out that depending on your spec, the 359 crafted items can be better itemized than the 353 stuff from ZA/G.

As of right now, new dungeon drops are 378 on the PTR. Maybe that will change before release though.

I completely boned up my earlier post. I was talking about the mats for a 359 weapon (~5k). 365 weapons require fiery cores from T12, so the cost for those is 10k+.

Um, no. There are no crafted 359 weapons AFAIK (shields, breastplates, belts, but no weapons, for blacksmiths at least - there are engineering bows maybe), the 365 weapons are from recipes that you grind the firelands dailies to unlock, and typically take 8 truegold, 5 orbs, and some other random bullshit that varies per weapon.

There are no crafted 378 weapons, but there are crafted pieces of 378 armor, those are the things that take the living embers.

[Rokal]

You're right, my mistake. Still, I don't think any of this stuff with be worth crafting come 4.3

[Miasma]

I don't think I've even seen one of the 378 crafted items (that I could wear) on the ah because of how crazy expensive and hard to get the embers are.  They are rare enough that they are made to order basically.  I wonder if the 4.3 stuff will have some kind of even higher tier of orbs/embers.

[Outlawedprod]

4.3 Valor Changes
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3077118

If you're a lootwhore:
Heroic Rag now or Heroic BRC in 4.3 you make the choice =p

[Merusk]

I dunno.. this paragraph

In the past we have offered some tier pieces on the Valor vendor for players that just couldn’t justify the time or logistics necessary to participate in raids, but we’re hoping that the introduction of the Raid Finder tool helps remove that barrier. We think most players would agree that killing a giant monster and looting its corpse is more exciting than slowly farming a currency to purchase a reward. Currencies have their place, but we want them to be a secondary avenue of progression to boss killing.

implies that they'll be removing tier armor from Valor vendors.  In that event, Valor loses all point for anything other than off items that don't necessarily drop or drop infrequently but are highly desired.  i.e. rings, wrists, boots, capes.

[Ingmar]

We've known for a while that T13 wouldn't be on the vendor. I don't think they're going to remove the ones that were already there.

[Sjofn]

It pisses me off enough I can't get the fucking hat or shoulders (and thus no 4 piece bonus) without raiding, now they're regressing even further. Maybe the PUG raids will be jim dandy, but I am not going to hold my breath. It DOES make valor points pretty damn pointless though. Although I can at least turn those into conquest points. 

[Simond]

I'm hoping there's still someone at Blizzard with enough common sense to figure out that they still need to put something other than rings and trinkets on the Valour vendor (read: non-set armour of the same or similar ilvl) but my realistic side thinks that won't happen until 4.3.something.

[Ingmar]

Valor vendor doesn't seem to be up yet (at least nothing on a wowhead PTR search shows as purchaseable with valor points?) so who knows what will be on there. I do note that there are no shields showing up in a search of what should be the new 5 man drops, so that's a candidate for a valor purchase.

EDIT: Or not, I think I screwed up my first search, there are some 378 shields in there.

[Rokal]

From the blog that was linked above....

As you acquire Valor you'll want to spend it, and vendors will be offering a wide range of items to equip you to take on the Dragon Soul raid encounters, including cloaks, rings, ranged weapons, necklaces, trinkets, chest pieces, helms, gloves, bracers, boots, and belts, all of which are ilvl 397.

It'll have more than rings/trinkets, but they'll be off-set items (or non-set slots)

[caladein]

They're still keeping two slots (shoulders/legs) off plus primary weapons, but everyone should have expected more stuff on the Valor vendor this time because I don't think there's a raid rep this time around.  That gear had to go somewhere.

[Miasma]

The valor and tier changes do all hinge on the raid finder tool being successful, if it turns out to be a failure for any reason there are going to be a lot of pissed off people who can't get gear.  I am almost certain they will wind up making the looking for raid version too difficult for 25 random people who are only looking out for themselves and will have to nerf it into a cakewalk within a few weeks of its introduction.

[Rokal]

If it doesn't work they'll just change it again for the next expansion. Now's the time to try it, since this expansion is already on its way out.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, the timing for this is about as good as it can be, probably, from a dev cycle standpoint.

However, if it's shitty? And comes out around the same time SWTOR does? Thaaaaat might be unfortunate. Especially if SWTOR is worth a damn.

[Paelos]

Yeah, the timing for this is about as good as it can be, probably, from a dev cycle standpoint.

However, if it's shitty? And comes out around the same time SWTOR does? Thaaaaat might be unfortunate. Especially if SWTOR is worth a damn.

Yes, from a business standpoint, I would agree with that. Fortunately for WoW, I think SWTOR will have fallen into blaaaah for a lot of people by the time their next xpac comes back.

But only if they market it completely different than this mess.

[Miasma]

Yeah, the timing for this is about as good as it can be, probably, from a dev cycle standpoint.

However, if it's shitty? And comes out around the same time SWTOR does? Thaaaaat might be unfortunate. Especially if SWTOR is worth a damn.

Yes, from a business standpoint, I would agree with that. Fortunately for WoW, I think SWTOR will have fallen into blaaaah for a lot of people by the time their next xpac comes back.

But only if they market it completely different than this mess.

A bunch of fucking Pandas just screams casual so they'll be okay.

[Rendakor]

They're still keeping two slots (shoulders/legs) off plus primary weapons, but everyone should have expected more stuff on the Valor vendor this time because I don't think there's a raid rep this time around.  That gear had to go somewhere.

Legs you'll still be able to get from BH.

[luckton]

Hunter armor is up.  As expected, since Dragonstalker was already taken, you'll be collecting 'Wyrmstalker' pieces 

[Simond]

Also:

LOOT_ROLL_ROLLED_NEED_ROLE_BONUS = "Need Roll - %d for %s by %s + Role Bonus";

Looks like if you're tanking you get a bonus on need rolls for tanking gear, and so on.

[Rendakor]

Hopefully the bonus is 100, so it becomes impossible to lose to DPS.

[Merusk]

Very nice addition, although there will be whines from Tanks who like to need on DPS weapons  - particularly of the ranged type.

[Rendakor]

Very nice addition, although there will be whines from Tanks warriors who like to need on DPS weapons  - particularly of the ranged type.

FIFY.

[luckton]

Maybe they'll also start tagging gear with roles as well, so you'll get the bonus if you're playing the role the item is intended to be received by.

[ezrast]

xXhuntsalotXx: blizz put in role bonus so ima need everything for os
xXhuntsalotXx: u guys will get the bonus for ur spec neway

[Lakov_Sanite]

In response to concerns regarding how loot will be distributed in the Raid Finder system, we are making some changes to how loot rolls will work when using the Need Before Greed system in the Raid Finder. When using Raid Finder for the Dragon Soul raid instance, players whose currently assigned class role (Tank, Healer, or Damage) matches the class role that a piece of armor or a weapon is flagged for will receive +100 to their Need roll. For purposes of this check, your currently assigned role is defined as the class role you have assigned when a boss is defeated. Sound confusing? I hope not, but here's how it'll work:

A boss dies and drops EPIC TANKING ITEM.

    A mage in the group yawns and clicks the "Greed" button, getting a 98.

    A Fury warrior in the group wants to take up tanking, so he rolls "Need" and gets a solid 64.

    Both tanks want the item. Tank 1 rolls a 12, and Tank 2 rolls a 7.


So what happens?

Because the mage rolled greed, she's right out from the start. The Fury warrior's Need roll was higher than the tanks', but he was in the Damage Dealer role when the boss died, and the item is flagged for tanking, so his 64 is still just a 64 out of a possible 100. In contrast, Tank 1 and Tank 2 each get a 100 point bonus to their rolls because they were in the Tanking role when the boss died and they’re rolling on an item that has been flagged for the tanking role. That means that Tank 1 rolled a 112 out of 200, and tank 2 rolled a 107 out of 200. Tank 1 wins the item! If a roll got a bonus, that bonus will be clearly displayed in the chat log.

Please keep in mind that, at least for now, this system will only look at class role, and not player spec. This bonus isn't only for tanking items either – it applies to Tanking, Damage Dealing, and Healing items, and some items are flagged for more than one class role too. Starting out, only Dragon Soul raid items will be flagged for class roles in this way (though all of the items in the raid will be flagged for one or more roles). As you might expect, all the normal Need Before Greed rules are still in place, so that means that these roll bonuses won't overrule normal class and usability restrictions. Item tooltips in the raid won't reflect which class roles will get rolling bonuses, but it should be fairly obvious based on stat allocations and item type.

We are considering expanding this system to apply to the new 4.3 dungeons as well, though it is unlikely that we'll see the system apply to older dungeons or raids for now. Also, please keep in mind that this system is newly minted, and it may see further changes before it's released with the Raid Finder in patch 4.3.

[Ingmar]

I do have to ponder how a weapon like this will be treated by the spec system:

one handed sword, with strength, hit (or expertise), and mastery. (Any 2 of those 3 really).

That's both a tanking weapon for warriors and paladins, and a DPS weapon for SMF and dual-wield frost.

EDIT: I see that they say some things will be flagged for more than one role, good enough.

[Kirth]

rolling stuff.

I understand that they needed to do something... but its just goes more and more away from people needing to communicate with one an other.

[Sjofn]

Trust me, in this case, it's for the best. My paladin lost on the healer trinket during Brewfest every fucking time to some other asshat rolling on it, including mages because omg +int. It was a teensy bit infuriating.


What's sad is that in that post, I was most pleased to see them call the mage a "she."

[Kirth]

Trust me, in this case, it's for the best. My paladin lost on the healer trinket during Brewfest every fucking time to some other asshat rolling on it, including mages because omg +int. It was a teensy bit infuriating.


What's sad is that in that post, I was most pleased to see them call the mage a "she."

Yeh your right, can't patch out stupid or trolls. Blizzard should implement tribunal ala LoL

[Lakov_Sanite]

What about +spirit items where dps druids/shaman/shadowpriests are concernered?

[caladein]

Do you mean besides flagging it as Damage/Healer?