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Author Topic: Heeeeeeere's Spidey.  (Read 12507 times)
Azazel
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Reply #35 on: August 09, 2011, 09:33:16 PM

All they did was change his race. Spazz out much?

As a former Marvel comics reader, I think the main fuckup here is that they really need to preserve either the regular or the Ultimate universe in a somewhat "classic" state. Since the "regular" Marvel universe is already a mess with all of the spider-crap you've just mentioned, Frankenpunisher, Civil War, et al, (isn't Tony Stark's Iron Man suit now essentially a biotech nanotech symbiote now?) then they should make the gay biracial spiderman the "regular" one since that's the one that has already been fucked with for the past decade+ in the universe that jumps the shark in new ways every other month.

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RhyssaFireheart
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Reply #36 on: August 10, 2011, 08:20:26 AM

You know, I can't find the report post button/link, if there even is one.  And I so wanted to let others know about the New York tours. :(

Lantyssa
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Reply #37 on: August 10, 2011, 10:37:44 AM

The report post button was removed long ago due to Signe annoying the mods.

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Azazel
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Reply #38 on: August 12, 2011, 05:16:28 AM

Hm. Any chance of putting it back now as she and Righ left long ago?

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Lantyssa
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Reply #39 on: August 12, 2011, 08:58:52 AM

It would only serve to summon her back...

...

I vote we return it!

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Azazel
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Reply #40 on: August 14, 2011, 06:29:38 PM

Not many people complained when they turned Psylocke into a hot asian whore!

Wait, what? Isn't she Captain Britain's sister or cousin or something? And, you know, very much anglo-saxon?


It's just to me there is no Spiderman without Peter Parker, no Batman without Bruce Wayne, no Superman without Kal-el/Clark Kent and no Wonder Woman without Diana Prince. It's not about the powers and costume so much as the person in the costume that I want to read about it. Oddly enough I'd probably have less trouble with it if this was something where Peter Parker's mind somehow got put into this Miles Morales's body. I'd think it was kind of a silly storyline potentially but at least it would still be Peter Parker.

This also makes sense to me, I have to say. The character isn't the costume. It's the person inside it. We're not talking about Joel Schumaker Batman films here...

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Velorath
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Reply #41 on: August 14, 2011, 06:56:26 PM


It's just to me there is no Spiderman without Peter Parker, no Batman without Bruce Wayne, no Superman without Kal-el/Clark Kent and no Wonder Woman without Diana Prince. It's not about the powers and costume so much as the person in the costume that I want to read about it. Oddly enough I'd probably have less trouble with it if this was something where Peter Parker's mind somehow got put into this Miles Morales's body. I'd think it was kind of a silly storyline potentially but at least it would still be Peter Parker.

This also makes sense to me, I have to say. The character isn't the costume. It's the person inside it. We're not talking about Joel Schumaker Batman films here...


In the long term I think maybe that's true, but in the short term I think there are a lot of good stories to be told by replacing the main character.  Thor, Captain America, Iron Man, Green Lantern, Flash, etc..., all have had some pretty good runs focused around this concept.  There are things you can examine about Bruce Wayne or Peter Parker by the effect their absence has, and sometimes it's just fun to see a guy like Eric Masterson step into the role of Thor for a bit.
Khaldun
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Reply #42 on: August 14, 2011, 06:58:56 PM

Lantyssa
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Reply #43 on: August 14, 2011, 10:08:06 PM

Not many people complained when they turned Psylocke into a hot asian whore!
Wait, what? Isn't she Captain Britain's sister or cousin or something? And, you know, very much anglo-saxon?
Yeah.  It's pretty stupid.

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Fordel
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Reply #44 on: August 14, 2011, 10:16:12 PM

I guess my question is, if all the classic heroes have their defaults already, and those defaults were made where White Male was the only accepted norm... how do we go about making 'new classics' that fit a broader spectrum.


Has there been a 'new' superhero in the past 20 years? One that wasn't a 2 issue wonder that everyone instantly forgot about?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Mazakiel
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Reply #45 on: August 14, 2011, 10:26:14 PM

Spawn was big for a time.
Velorath
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Reply #46 on: August 14, 2011, 10:58:11 PM

Has there been a 'new' superhero in the past 20 years? One that wasn't a 2 issue wonder that everyone instantly forgot about?


A few here and there, but even some of the more successful ones have a hard time lasting because there's such a strong connection between these characters and their creators.  Runways as an example, is a book that consisted of entirely new/diverse characters, and eventually built a solid fanbase, but once Brian K Vaughan left the book, it was a jumping off point for a lot of fans (I stuck around for Whedon's arc, but I had little desire to read Terry Moore's, or Kathryn Immonen's take on the characters).  I think writers are reluctant to touch newer characters as well.  Older characters are sort of like community property at this point,  but if a writer wants to mess around with a newer character, they probably feel obligated to be in contact with the creators of the character to make sure they're stating true to the character.  Just look at Young Avengers.  Things got off to a good start when the book launched, then completely stalled out because Allan Heinberg doesn't have a lot of time to write comics, and aside from a few throw-away minis by other writiers, Marvel seems reluctant do another ongoing book without Heinberg.
DLRiley
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Reply #47 on: August 15, 2011, 02:12:54 AM

I guess my question is, if all the classic heroes have their defaults already, and those defaults were made where White Male was the only accepted norm... how do we go about making 'new classics' that fit a broader spectrum.


Has there been a 'new' superhero in the past 20 years? One that wasn't a 2 issue wonder that everyone instantly forgot about?

DC
Static Shock. The tv show is a billion times better than the comics. So they mothballed the book and told his stories as part of the new teen titans. Apparently making most of the villains white surpremist/nazis or gangsters is in fact lazy story writing.

I forgot spawn.


Marvel
Marvel wrote a book called the runaways (or something like that) that had a black version of batman when he was a teenager (kinda like a badass robin without the cape) type character who leads a group of kids who ran away from there parents when they discovered that their parents are Cthulhu cultist. He was the best part of the book, than the plot twist was that he was evil and working with his parents the entire time, than they killed in 2 pages later. The book became unreadable a 2 books later...fuck you marvel.

The problem with the runaways is that the other characters weren't notable enough, except for the tiny mutant/alien girl (no i'm serious she is a 10 year old mutant alien) who is fucking awesome, everyone else was a throw away teenager.
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Reply #48 on: August 15, 2011, 04:45:09 AM

Has there been a 'new' superhero in the past 20 years? One that wasn't a 2 issue wonder that everyone instantly forgot about?

Not from either DC or Marvel. You need to look at either the indies or the imprints. But even those don't go 'mainstream' so much as build a vocal fan base within the dwindling number of comic readers.

But it isn't about the comics these days; it is about the movie deal.

palmer_eldritch
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Reply #49 on: August 15, 2011, 08:44:31 AM

Not many people complained when they turned Psylocke into a hot asian whore!
Wait, what? Isn't she Captain Britain's sister or cousin or something? And, you know, very much anglo-saxon?
Yeah.  It's pretty stupid.

She's in the Alan Moore Captain Britain stories, which are well worth reading if you haven't already. There's a trade paperback. This is before she was known as Psylocke. She was a blonde (although she dyed her hair purple), English fashion model with fairly weak psychic powers.

When she first appeared in the X-Men, as written by Chris Claremont, she was kind of bland and boring. I'm guessing they turned her into a hot Asian ninja babe because they couldn't think of a better way to make her interesting.

HaemishM
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Reply #50 on: August 15, 2011, 10:55:18 AM

She's in the Alan Moore Captain Britain stories, which are well worth reading if you haven't already. There's a trade paperback. This is before she was known as Psylocke. She was a blonde (although she dyed her hair purple), English fashion model with fairly weak psychic powers.

When she first appeared in the X-Men, as written by Chris Claremont, she was kind of bland and boring. I'm guessing they turned her into a hot Asian ninja babe because they couldn't think of a better way to make her interesting because Jim Lee likes hot Asian ninja chicks wearing skintight uniforms.

Fixed that for you. I firmly blame Psylocke on Jim Lee, though yeah, she was never that interesting a character.

Simond
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Reply #51 on: August 15, 2011, 02:18:09 PM

All they did was change his race. Spazz out much?

As a former Marvel comics reader, I think the main fuckup here is that they really need to preserve either the regular or the Ultimate universe in a somewhat "classic" state. Since the "regular" Marvel universe is already a mess with all of the spider-crap you've just mentioned, Frankenpunisher, Civil War, et al, (isn't Tony Stark's Iron Man suit now essentially a biotech nanotech symbiote now?) then they should make the gay biracial spiderman the "regular" one since that's the one that has already been fucked with for the past decade+ in the universe that jumps the shark in new ways every other month.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Adventures
Aimed at kids, but all that means is it avoids the tedious teenaged angst and cod-philosophy of the 'mainstream' and Ultimate Marvel universes and concentrates on, you know, fun stories.

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Fordel
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Reply #52 on: August 15, 2011, 04:55:36 PM

I guess my question is, if all the classic heroes have their defaults already, and those defaults were made where White Male was the only accepted norm... how do we go about making 'new classics' that fit a broader spectrum.


Has there been a 'new' superhero in the past 20 years? One that wasn't a 2 issue wonder that everyone instantly forgot about?

DC
Static Shock. The tv show is a billion times better than the comics. So they mothballed the book and told his stories as part of the new teen titans. Apparently making most of the villains white surpremist/nazis or gangsters is in fact lazy story writing.


Static Shock yea, they had the show and it worked it into the DCAU. I guess that's a decent example, still he's no superman/batman but it's certainly something to build off of.



I forgot about Spawn too, which is kinda the point  why so serious?

No one gives a shit about Spawn anymore.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
DLRiley
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Reply #53 on: August 15, 2011, 05:47:04 PM

Spawn had the first relatively decent comic book movie next to Blade.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #54 on: August 15, 2011, 07:34:47 PM

Quote
because everyone likes hot Asian ninja chicks wearing skintight uniforms.

There we go.

RE:spawn

At first I liked it until they ran the merch into the ground.  The story/origin was actually fairly solid and there's probably a lot they could have done with it if they hadn't gone full retard with all the grimdark and elseworlds bs that seemed to go on.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 07:36:38 PM by Lakov_Sanite »

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MuffinMan
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Reply #55 on: August 15, 2011, 09:59:48 PM

The only thing I have to say about Spawn is that the HBO series was, and still is, the tits.

Spawn had the first relatively decent comic book movie next to Blade.
That's a sad fucking statement.

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Velorath
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Reply #56 on: August 15, 2011, 10:06:37 PM

Spawn had the first relatively decent comic book movie next to Blade.

Sure, if you ignore the Tim Burton Batman movies.  And the first couple Superman movies.  And The Crow.  And the fact that the Spawn movie was crap.
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Reply #57 on: August 16, 2011, 06:27:34 AM

At first I liked it until they ran the merch into the ground.  

This is exactly why Spawn is dead as a franchise.  McFarlane cared much more about the merch money than the actual franchise. So much so that you now see McFarlane toys everywhere when I think Spawn really could have grown as iconic as the top-tier DC and Marvel heroes. That softball to the head must've knocked something loose.

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Sir T
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Reply #58 on: August 16, 2011, 08:21:15 AM

Hellboy is fairly recent too, and got a couple of fairly decent movies out of it. Haven't read it in ages though.

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DLRiley
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Reply #59 on: August 16, 2011, 10:29:25 AM

Spawn had the first relatively decent comic book movie next to Blade.

Sure, if you ignore the Tim Burton Batman movies.  And the first couple Superman movies.  And The Crow.  And the fact that the Spawn movie was crap.
We will always have superman and batman movies, they will probably never be in the same vein as ironman, spiderman, xmen or captain america. No executive will say "oh that guy in a bat suit will never work no one will pay to see him in action. I mean who the fuck drives a batmobile?" Up until 4 months ago people were thinking a movie about a thunder god wouldnt work. And dont even get me started on the debate around captain america being to cheesy for film going audiences.

I didnt know the crow was a comic book first.
HaemishM
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Reply #60 on: August 16, 2011, 10:48:51 AM

At first I liked it until they ran the merch into the ground.  

This is exactly why Spawn is dead as a franchise.  McFarlane cared much more about the merch money than the actual franchise. So much so that you now see McFarlane toys everywhere when I think Spawn really could have grown as iconic as the top-tier DC and Marvel heroes. That softball to the head must've knocked something loose.

I think that's being a bit optimistic about Spawn's chances. The story really wasn't all that well written. Granted, it was better than all the other shit that Image put out in their first block of titles, but it's very telling that less than a year into its run, McFarlane was already hiring in guest writers for the flagship title.

Sir T
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Reply #61 on: August 16, 2011, 10:53:06 AM

I didnt know the crow was a comic book first.

Yep, though the film was better IMO.

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Merusk
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Reply #62 on: August 16, 2011, 11:37:29 AM

At first I liked it until they ran the merch into the ground.  

This is exactly why Spawn is dead as a franchise.  McFarlane cared much more about the merch money than the actual franchise. So much so that you now see McFarlane toys everywhere when I think Spawn really could have grown as iconic as the top-tier DC and Marvel heroes. That softball to the head must've knocked something loose.

I think that's being a bit optimistic about Spawn's chances. The story really wasn't all that well written. Granted, it was better than all the other shit that Image put out in their first block of titles, but it's very telling that less than a year into its run, McFarlane was already hiring in guest writers for the flagship title.

IMO, it was a great concept that could have done with more over-arching direction and Vision than it had.  McFarlane had already checked out at the time, though, so whoever was actually in charge didn't have a real vision beyond, "well that seems cool.."

Yes, spawn the knight/ gunslinger/ whateverthefuck seems cool.  However if it's not blended into an actual narrative about either rogue Hellspawn or Al Simmons himself then it's just a spastic collection of fanboy wankage.   

McFarlane Toys started in 1994 after, if I remember right, McFarlane announced he was disappointed nobody was willing to produce the Spawn toys or those who were willing would produce really cheap Walgreens-imitation-toy-level objects.  That means he'd been shopping the idea around prior to that already.  Considering Spawn had only appeared 18months earlier, I think we know where his focus was at.

That said I can't really blame him.  He's a millionaire toy maker for man-children.  No way he was going to make that money as a comic guy alone, and it's a good part of the reason he and the other guys founded Image in the first place.  To be able to exploit their IP for their own gains rather than letting DC/ Marvel do so.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Sir T
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Reply #63 on: August 16, 2011, 12:10:49 PM

Yeah, though his big beef with Marvel was that he thought they ripped off his concept for their short lived character Nightwatch. And to be fair they kinda did, even though Nightwatch had none of the hellspawn nonsense.



Disclaimer, I liked the Nightwatch comic.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 12:12:21 PM by Sir T »

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Reply #64 on: August 16, 2011, 11:22:50 PM

I didnt know the crow was a comic book first.

Yep, though the film was better IMO.

Very true.

Spawn benefitted from having other writers come in, including guys like Alan Moore. And MacFarlane generally recognised this.

Tannhauser
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Reply #65 on: August 19, 2011, 07:46:36 PM

McFarlane's a dick, but I have to admire his push to make money off of HIS creations.  Always loved his artwork, always hated his writing.  I have the first twenty issues of Spawn and his plots and mythos were decent, just hated his rambling.  I thought the idea of angels who inflict lots of pain pretty interesting and saying that the 'good guys' were pretty nasty too.

Image almost pulled it off.  Kudos to those guys but I never bought any of the toys.  Just not my thing.
Minvaren
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Reply #66 on: August 19, 2011, 10:34:21 PM

His artwork is great, when someone else is driving.

For example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV4oYkIeGJc&ob=av2n

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Ironwood
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Reply #67 on: October 10, 2012, 08:28:35 AM

I picked this up (off a shelf, didn't but it) at the store this morning and read it.

It's fucking awful.

I don't really care about making him black, or killing 'real' spidey or even if they make him gay.  What bothered me was that during the two trades that I read cover to cover, in growing horror in the store, Bendis appears to have forgotten how to actually write.  The whole thing was godawful from start to finish.  (I stopped when his Uncle offered to train him.)

Truly, truly retarded.

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HaemishM
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Reply #68 on: October 10, 2012, 09:32:55 AM

Bendis lost the ability to write 2 pages into his Avengers Disassembled storyline. I can't fucking stand him now and I used to love him. His dialogue fits very particular types of stories but he uses it whenever he writes whether it fits the characters or not.

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Reply #69 on: October 10, 2012, 10:43:26 AM

Fair enough;  To be honest, I haven't read his stuff for a very long time and even then I didn't bother with any of the other 'Ultimate' stuff.

It was truly terribad.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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