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Merusk
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Reply #35 on: July 26, 2011, 10:47:35 AM

Finished ADWD last night.

Same here, I'm not sure I can take any more books that hop all over the world to follow yet another character every single chapter.  I'm beginning to think that this is done as a series of cliffhangers gimmick to hide how bad the story really is.  At least he isn't as bad as Jordon and introducing a new plot element (that will never get resolved) in every chapter as well.


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Reply #36 on: July 26, 2011, 11:19:13 AM

Re- ADWD


Downloaded Ghost Story to my Kindle this morning  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? Still need to finish Side Jobs (about halfway through, so I should be able to knock it out today unless work interrupts), and then I get to find out WTF is up with Harry! This has been a good month for nerdy book releases.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

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DLRiley
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Reply #37 on: July 26, 2011, 12:00:47 PM

Finished a ADWD and....

It was worth the preorder but

- John Snow first and foremost is my favorite character and glad what they did with him till the end which depending on spoilers will determine whether i purchase or read book 6.
- The fact that he sends as many people to their deaths as he saves is a fun fact.
- What happened to John when he was about to do some KING OF THE NORTH type shit is.....

-Dany, i hate her yet want to pat her head. no bitch in fiction reminds me of my braty friend from college
-Her point of view is hit and miss, you hate everyone surrounding her now that mormount is gone and you half expecting her to trip, fall, and die because of her stupid.

-tryion, used to be a tryion chapter was what stole the show but now..... ever since his fall from grace the giant of lannister is now a sniveling smart mouth, with very little of his chapters devoted to actual plot...... but it is tryion though the view of him becomes much less than it was back when he was in westerios

--davos onion knight + plot = win

-mess couldn't have fucked john snow

-arya stark kinda pointless

the book as a whole, was a fun read, i'm just afraid that book six the people i hate will still be there, and the people i like will drop like flies.
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Reply #38 on: July 26, 2011, 12:34:07 PM

On ADWD:

First half of book was ho-hum, lots of pieces moved about, with little consequence (other than discovery of "what happened" to characters in lieu of previous "cliffhangers"), but in 2nd half, some sparks of plot raveling, engrossing and compelling enough, and I found myself gripped with desiring to finish quickly, to find out what happens -- and whilst there are a few big events that unfurl late in the book, it seemed more like GRRM was setting the stage for book #6.

Which I hope I don't have to wait ~6 years for The Winds of Winter (book #6), like it did for book #5…

"We offered players a Camelot. We immediately discovered players wanted to smear shit all over the walls, create giant penises out of whatever was available, rape, rob and kill their fellow players and anything else not given invulnerability while making the teabag emote over their corpses and generally be utter and complete cunts. So we dialed it back a little." ~HaemishM
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Reply #39 on: July 26, 2011, 04:38:25 PM

ADWD:


"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Ingmar
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Reply #40 on: July 26, 2011, 04:39:23 PM

The setup has always struck me as more of 'hot vs. cold' with good and evil on both sides, yeah.

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lamaros
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Reply #41 on: July 26, 2011, 09:24:23 PM


Expect poison from the standing water.
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Reply #42 on: July 28, 2011, 06:27:45 PM

My copy of ADWD is waiting for me at the library. Guess I know how I am spending my saturday!

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Reply #43 on: July 28, 2011, 09:15:28 PM


Uhm, what the hell was that about?  That was the weirdest review of anything I've read in a long time.
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Reply #44 on: July 29, 2011, 06:00:12 AM

But hilarious.
Rasix
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Reply #45 on: July 29, 2011, 01:33:14 PM

ADWD:



That image sums up my thoughts.  It's been 3 days since I've finished with the book, but I'm still not sure what to think. 

It was a fun ride.  It moves along at a good pace and stuff happens.  It's not Jordanesque padding that goes nowhere, but he did have a few chapters that felt pointless.  But man, there was a lot of kicking the can down the road to avoid doing anything monumental.  Even the biggest things that happened, didn't really change much. 


I enjoyed it, but gah.  I'm done pining for this series.  When the next book comes out, I'll be happy and read it.  Until then, I don't care anymore.

-Rasix
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Reply #46 on: July 29, 2011, 01:37:13 PM

Should we have a separate thread for ADWD spoilers?  why so serious?


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DLRiley
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Reply #47 on: July 29, 2011, 02:51:12 PM

Probably.
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Reply #48 on: July 29, 2011, 03:40:31 PM

All right, new thread, and I'm declaring it free game for spoilers since you can't very well talk about the books without spoiling the fuck out of them.

I'm intrigued by the notion that Jon might take over the body of one of his killers, maybe unbeknownst to us until he pops up in book 7 saying "SURPRISE, BITCHES," but I got the impression that it was really hard to do that trick.  Seems more likely that he just ends up inside Ghost, which is kinda nice but doesn't leave him in a great position to contribute to the story.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
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Reply #49 on: July 29, 2011, 04:18:12 PM

I said it before, I'll say it again:

I am sick of Jon. I almost hope he died and stays dead (but he has potential to become interesting again away from the Wall, so I don't completely hope it :P). The Wall and the Others? I don't give a shit. Straight up. Most boring fucking zombie apocalypse ever.

Davos is <3 though. And Manderly is double <3.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 05:32:07 PM by Sjofn »

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Reply #50 on: July 29, 2011, 04:19:48 PM

Is Jon dead? Does Melisandre cast some magic to rescue him…?

Puzzled about the closing scene with Daenerys and Khal Jhaqo…

I liked the latter chapters with Barristan the Bold (I like Strong Belwas too) when Daenerys departed on her dragon…

Has Stannis & army really been destroyed?

The chapter(s) with Jaime seemed out of place.

GRRM succeeded in making the Boltons more depraved and reprehensible than the Lannisters…

"We offered players a Camelot. We immediately discovered players wanted to smear shit all over the walls, create giant penises out of whatever was available, rape, rob and kill their fellow players and anything else not given invulnerability while making the teabag emote over their corpses and generally be utter and complete cunts. So we dialed it back a little." ~HaemishM
Soln
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Reply #51 on: July 29, 2011, 04:22:58 PM

Just came from an hour long speak and signing event by GRRM.  Lovely man.
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Reply #52 on: July 29, 2011, 04:24:24 PM

I said it before, I'll say it again:

I am sick of Jon. I almost hope he died stays dead (but he has potential to become interesting again away from the Wall, so I don't completely hope it :P). The Wall and the Others? I don't give a shit. Straight up. Most boring fucking zombie apocalypse ever.

Davos is <3 though. And Manderly is double <3.

Surprised that Lord "too fat to sit astride his horse" survived that triple chin-ectomy.  Still, his scenes with Davos and with the Bolton/Frey host were great.  

I liked Jon a lot prior to this, but in this book he was just being man-Stark dumb.  Some times you have to play politics and not always do the right thing by your own conscience, and that's ALL HE DID.  Until the end, but that was interupted with knives.

Ohh yah, the warg stuff.  He'll manage to be less interesting in another body or in a wolf, especially in the wolf.  Outside of his own body, he's not even a Targaryen.

edit: Naum, your avatar is really creepy.

-Rasix
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Reply #53 on: July 29, 2011, 04:35:29 PM

Ser Bruce time.

Is Jon dead? Does Melisandre cast some magic to rescue him…?

Now that others mentioned the warg bit, I'd bet on that first.  I'd prefer the R'hllor option.  Jon as not-Jon would be retarded.

Quote
Puzzled about the closing scene with Daenerys and Khal Jhaqo…

I assume they're going to have her win back the Dothraki? I don't know.  Her angle went in directions different that I would have chosen, but I'm guessing he has a plan.  Maybe this is her "to go forward, you must go back" moment.

Quote
I liked the latter chapters with Barristan the Bold (I like Strong Belwas too) when Daenerys departed on her dragon…

I would love to see a Stong Belwas POV chapter.

Quote
Has Stannis & army really been destroyed?

I'm guessing ruse.  But perhaps this gets Melisandre to realize that Stannis isn't Azor Ahai and point her toward Dany.

Quote
GRRM succeeded in making the Boltons more depraved and reprehensible than the Lannisters…

They're perhaps the true mustache twirlers in the series now that Gregor is a zombie.  Well, Euron, I guess too doesn't seem to have any good side to him at all.

-Rasix
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Reply #54 on: July 29, 2011, 04:46:12 PM

WHAT THE SHIT?

I have not read the book yet, why am I the spoiler thread author?

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Reply #55 on: July 29, 2011, 04:48:38 PM

Surprised that Lord "too fat to sit astride his horse" survived that triple chin-ectomy.  Still, his scenes with Davos and with the Bolton/Frey host were great.  

I liked Jon a lot prior to this, but in this book he was just being man-Stark dumb.  Some times you have to play politics and not always do the right thing by your own conscience, and that's ALL HE DID.  Until the end, but that was interupted with knives.

I was totally all "NO DON'T YOU FUCKING KILL MANDERLY YOU FUCKER oh phew I don't have to firebomb your house after all" during that part.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?  And I have to agree with you on Jon being man-Stark dumb. Not quite up to the level of Robb dumb (still, STILL facepalming over that), but damn dude.

I am pretty sure Stannis & company are still alive (well, as alive as they can be in the shitty position they were in), just because the letter demanded the return of Theon and Fake Arya. At the same time, the Mance stuff rang true to me, so ... eh. We'll see. Generally the off screen "deaths" are the most likely to not be dead. Stannis seems like an on-screen death either way. He'll probably get burned to death.  Ohhhhh, I see.

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Reply #56 on: July 29, 2011, 04:50:03 PM

I reckon we'll discover the answers to these questions in 2017…

"We offered players a Camelot. We immediately discovered players wanted to smear shit all over the walls, create giant penises out of whatever was available, rape, rob and kill their fellow players and anything else not given invulnerability while making the teabag emote over their corpses and generally be utter and complete cunts. So we dialed it back a little." ~HaemishM
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Reply #57 on: July 29, 2011, 04:51:35 PM

I'm guessing ruse.  But perhaps this gets Melisandre to realize that Stannis isn't Azor Ahai and point her toward Dany.

Worth noting that in the Melisandre POV chapter, she thinks about trying to see Stannis-as-Azor-Ahai but just keeps getting Jon instead, which could be taken as an indication that Jon is the dude.

On the Stannis army being dead thing, it seems sort of unlikely given the warning about Karstark from the Iron Bank of Braavos dude seems to have arrived in time, and the fact that Ramsay mentions wanting Reek back but Theon was with Stannis's army last we saw them, if I'm remembering correctly.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Rasix
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Reply #58 on: July 29, 2011, 04:56:28 PM

Ahh, yes, him wanting Reek and Jeyne back would indicate bullshit.  But yah, Mance is probably not in a happy place right now.

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Reply #59 on: July 29, 2011, 08:51:11 PM

I reckon we'll discover the answers to these questions in 2017…

he said today either he has "a couple of hundred" or a "a hundred" pages of Book 6 already written and finalized.  They are sections from Book 6 he didn't include.  
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Reply #60 on: July 29, 2011, 09:19:05 PM

Probably of missing POVs - Sansa, Samwell, Brienne? There's also the matter of the last guy who was headed off to find Daenrys, the mage maester guy, we heard about everyone else who was headed east.

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Reply #61 on: July 30, 2011, 07:58:01 AM

The reason I see Jon being Rh'ellor'd is that if he's dead they're not going to just let Ghost wander around live.  Ghost scares the fuck out of people - he's a dead wolf.   Plus, the Warg thing at death takes a conscious effort, you saw it with the wildling guy. It also apparently has a range or requires line of sight since he'd planned on taking over the spearwife because he couldn't see his pack as he was starving.

That's all assuming Jon's dead, though.  Let's face it unless we see a body, GMM has done enough "blacking out" chapter ends that we should know he's not dead by now. Asha and Tyrion alone in this book did the same nonsense.  Theon had a similar "ending" and we thought The Hound was dead, too.

I'm also convinced Coldhands is Benjen Stark, but I'd been convinced of that since we first saw him.

The letter from The Bastard was totally Melisandre. It arrived too soon and pushed Jon in a direction she wanted using secrets only she would know. Plus, as was mentioned, the Iron Banker of Braavos gave them enough warning.

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Reply #62 on: July 30, 2011, 08:18:59 AM

I can see Jon being dead due to multiple knife wounds to the chest.... but err we had people come back from that right? Right? I can see a reason for Jon being dead, if only for a little while. Jon is the only one holding up the juggling act of thousands of armed wildlings, night watchmen, and queens men, all sitting under the same roof under the wall. The wildlings won't trust the night watch after what they did to Jon, the insuring masacre will probably forfill the "the wall is only as good as there is sworn brothers to protect it" requirement that keeps all manner of dead things and night walkers out.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2011, 08:23:37 AM by DLRiley »
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Reply #63 on: August 01, 2011, 03:10:26 AM

At this point I hope he kills everyone except Arya & Tyrion, just so their chapter numbers go up.
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Reply #64 on: August 01, 2011, 04:52:20 AM

I came late the party, ordering the 4 book set whilst the series was playing so I had only finished the fourth to be able to jump right into the fifth.

I think I was getting a little fatigued by the time I was reading this but some things annoyed me in ADWD

I hated Dany not moving anywhere.  I want her to get to Westeros and sitting in Meereen pretty much the whole book was frustrating.  Her meeting Khal Jhoqo whilst the dragon eats the horse bodes well for her getting new allies and revitilising herself (I hope).

As much fun as Tyrion is I don't like him as much when he is stumbling from one captor to another.  He is much better when he has some power.

Jon was pretty cool imho though.  As telegraphed as it was in hindsight it still came as a shock to me at the end.  I too think he will get his kiss of fire.

Theon still being alive wasn't a surprise to me, his ending at Winterfell felt very deliberately ambiguous to me.  I was almost starting to feel sypathetic to him, as much as I hated him in Book 3.

I also agree Manderly is awesome, I also like Tormund, and the Kindly Man.
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Reply #65 on: August 03, 2011, 06:09:09 PM

Somewhere around 55% the book gets a lot easier to read. It's curious how much the "eastern continent" has become more important than Westeros. I hope that by about 30% of the next one, no one of any importance is left in the eastern continent. (I'm guessing that most of Dany's loyalists are heading for a bad end).

Tyrion is a classic picaresque character. As such he should be having more fun than he has been--that kind of character can fall into a dire situation for a bit, but they should bear it lightly.

I do wonder about Stannis.

I'm sick of Zen killer bullshit (re: Many Faces assholes). I'm cool if assassins want to say, "Look, detachment makes you a better killer", I'm bored by assassins who say, "Don't want to kill anyone until our god/fate/whateverthefuck says so." It's a boring trope.
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Reply #66 on: August 03, 2011, 06:14:50 PM

It's not that the eastern continent has become more important, only that it was omitted from the last book.  Remember 4 & 5 have the same timeline until about the time you see Jaime. 

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Reply #67 on: August 03, 2011, 06:27:55 PM

No, I don't think it's just that. Let's imagine 4 & 5 as one mega-book: in that book, the story emphasis has still switched markedly to places other than Westeros (including Braavosi). With tons of details about those places. Some of those details tell us a lot more about what happened to Westeros characters after Robert's rebellion, or about how the two continents are more entangled than either lets on.

But I'm still REALLY struck at how NO ONE on the eastern continent is even slightly worried about the coming of winter even though they share some of the same latitude. (E.g., this is not equatorial Africa vs. Scandinavia). The Dothraki, for example, should be talking about winter a lot, if they're pastoralists who wander over the interior of Asia Essos.

But it's only the Westerosi who worry about it. This is weird. Seriously, I don't quite understand why people haven't just abandoned the place to its fate. In fact, this is a BIG fucking problem with Martin's whole world-building. He wants to say, "Look, this is medieval times, so I'm justified in the raping and violence because that's realistic." Ok, so it is. But then this should be a world that's much more uninhabited than his world seems to be. Even in human societies that have really big fertile-period population booms (like the Sahel in Africa) you don't have this kind of relative population density in flush times. He doesn't seem to me to have really thought through, "What would a world where there's VERY long seasons plus magical bullshit wintermonsters really look like in terms of where people live and and so on." If there are really parts of his world that winter is no big fucking deal for, head for them. Like humanity did on our actual world--living in Western Europe during the Ice Age was for tough motherfucker bastards and there were VERY few Neanderthals because of it. (Part of the newest theory about why they got swept aside, in fact.)
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Reply #68 on: August 03, 2011, 06:43:09 PM

I've always figured he just didn't plan that out very well.  As you say, it's a weakness in the world.  It's a giant fucking plot hole, actually, and the only real explanation would seem to be "A wizard did it!"

Hell, even Jordan had trollocs & stuff in Seanchan. They were just wiped out (until recently...)

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Reply #69 on: August 03, 2011, 07:32:34 PM

He's not a very good writer in many senses, one of which is his 'world building', and it has become more and more noticeable as the series has grown and expanded outside his original loose plans.

He is more of a character and 'event' (I won't call it 'plot', as he seems to focus on things one at a time rather than as a cohesive and comprehensible whole) writer than anything else. Supposedly he got a writing 'epiphany' after being a D&D master (related this in one of the Wild Card's book intros), he worked in TV, etc.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 07:34:38 PM by lamaros »

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