DOTA2

[Falconeer]

What happened in game 2? Did ViCi actually sprouted its own player to bait the enemies in and AOE the hell out of them, or was that a n00b mistake that accidentlly turned into a big win?

[Falconeer]

Question #2: why so many Chinese players have very long fingernails? Isn't that supposed to make it harder to use a keyboard?

[Rasix]

Woops.  There go the streams.

EG v DK game 1 was pretty entertaining.  Stop shouting, Toby.

[Fordel]

Woops.  There go the streams.

EG v DK game 1 was pretty entertaining.  Stop shouting, Toby.

That's just his natural volume.

[Rasix]

I should have listened to Purge. But I was working and lazy.

EG are fun to watch.

[Hoax]

USA USA USA USA

Seriously though, fucking awesome. Guaranteed top NA finish.

[Falconeer]

Game 1. Just wow.

EDIT: And the fucking live casters: "Geeee with this lineup Newbee has no chances in this game.."

[Thrawn]

Watched the all star match, I wish they did more silly stuff like that.

That last pick though...welp, was fun DotA, time to find a new game. 

[Fordel]

It isn't the Dota we need, it's the Dota we deserve. 

[Rasix]

If there's any gripe I have about this event, it's that they played one game in a series and then shelved them until tomorrow.  That seems a little silly. 

Missed the all star game.  I guess I'll watch a replay.

[Fordel]

I'm going to end up re-watching all the games with the Shane/Blitz/Pyrion commentary, because they are gold 

[Johny Cee]

I'm going to end up re-watching all the games with the Shane/Blitz/Pyrion commentary, because they are gold 

Been meaning to post this for a while...  Quick overview of the noob/newcomer stream personalities:

PyrionFlax: https://www.youtube.com/user/tedhimself
English youtube personality.  He has a youtube channel with semi-regular updates, lot of Dota stuff.  He focuses more on time intensive videos....  like songs/raps, funny guides to heroes accompanied by bad drawings.  He does post videos of games he plays with friends and funny pub casts, as well as videos of other games.  His "Papers please" videos are pretty amusing, for instance.  Pflax is a mediocre players (like low 3000s MMR) but is generally pretty entertaining.  He plays with guys like Blitz and Purge sometimes, plays often with Shane.

The Dota gameplay videos are usually pretty entertaining if you like the idea of a bunch of cheeky British Isles players having a good time.

Has an official Valve announcer pack which is pretty good.

Shane: http://www.twitch.tv/shaneomad

Irish, buddy of Pflax, and Dota streamer.  Generally seems like he's having a great time whatever he is doing.  Better player than Pflax.

Blitz: http://www.twitch.tv/blitzdota/

Blitz is a streamer/pub star type, went to Korea to give Pro Dota a shot and after a series of unfortunate events with the team he joined ended up forming Team Zephyr with Purge et al that stomped the Korean scene this winter/spring.  Generally he's around a 5000 MMR player, so he's legitimately a good player though definitely not a great player.

Used to stream alot.  He's a laid-back guy, lot of pro player friends, his streams were pretty good to watch. 

Purge: Youtube channel with a million videos geared towards how to play; has a twitch stream now.

Purge is Purge, you've seen his work if you have ever watched "Welcome to Dota, you suck" which is THE noob player video.  Purge is laid-back, explains concepts well, and really mature for a mid-20 something.  He's a monster at regularly generating watchable content.

Sunsfan:

I guess he's one of the guys behind Dotacinema and a caster.  Not very familiar with him, beyond seeing him play in some others games. 


Generally, if you want to see more Dota or learn more about the game, Purge's library of videos is great.  Pflax generally has entertaining content while also seeing the game.  Most of his videos of games are Pflax, Shane and company being funny while playing, so if you like their amusing casting style check some of those out.


Of the rest of the announcers, I'm also going to mention Merlini.  Merlini is a retired pro and is often considered one of the superstars of early Dota.  He does have a youtube channel and twitch stream.  He is mellow and very informative, while also showcasing great play.

[Johny Cee]

Just watched DK vs LGD game 1.  God, I don't like the ultra-passive style DK plays.  At a certain point, they always take zero risks.  None.  In this case, the LGD lineup had much more carry potential (support Alc turns into carry Alc) and heroes that don't fall off as hard late (Bat, even WD...  cask is great again after BKBs get low plus Agh's ult, Centaur stun is always good).

If DK had just done a few suicide pushes bot with aegis/buybacks, they could have taken that tower down with minimal risks.

Also, can't figure out why Prophet kept taking farm priority.  That gold would have been better spread around.

[Rasix]

EG and C9 had really baffling game 3s.  Awesome turn-around game 2s, and then complete pooch screws in the third.

Finals should be entertaining at least.

[Falconeer]

I hear so much about boring, farming, passive Chinese Dota. But that game 1 and 3 vs. EG were something else.

[Fordel]

It was just punishing greedy line ups and play.

The stupid bit is it kept working, with the losing teams just not adapting in the following games. Failures in drafts, builds and play.

[K9]

I hope Newbee wins this

[Johny Cee]

I hear so much about boring, farming, passive Chinese Dota. But that game 1 and 3 vs. EG were something else.

Well....  I think it's down to the old Chinese meta versus now.  Chinese play used to be about farm/passive play, and DK is still about that.  Newbee and VG have no problem going aggressive, and probably a big factor in the C9 and EG games (counting both upper and lower brackets) were those teams not accounting for the fact that their opponents had no problem punishing greedy lineups and going aggressive.

There are still plenty of Chinese teams that fall back into passive play/farm.  The two Chinese teams with the most success aren't afraid to push early advantages.

Edit:

Also, the meta has moved away from 4 protect 1 superfarming.

[Rasix]

[Malakili]

Are we doing spoilers?

[Fordel]

That was utterly disappointing in almost every regard.


"Oh, you are going to actually counter our five man death ball push strat... well shit I guess we lose."

[Rasix]

Are we doing spoilers?

Dunno.  It's on a Monday in the middle of the day, so I expect some people couldn't watch. 

The drafting in the 3rd and 4th game are the definition of insanity.  MAYBE IT'LL WORK THIS TIME.

[Rasix]

This does make me want to play again.  At least I know my Tidehunter and Shadow Shaman (and even Lion)  are still good.

[Fordel]

What happened in the finals, should have happened yesterday.

All of the teams that were knocked out yesterday could have EASILY done the exact same thing, but didn't, because fuck if I know why and we get this shit for a finals.

[Fordel]

Double posting to reinforce my disappointment in these finals.

[Samprimary]

that final cured my insomnia

[Thrawn]

Finals should be entertaining at least.

 

Meanwhile Dendi and iceiceice apparently spent hours and hours just signing autographs.  Newbee seems like a bad face for the game from what I've seen/read.

[Margalis]

TI was pretty bad overall.

Exciting games would have covered up some of the problems with the format, but the fact that the games themselves were pretty dull meant the structural problems were also exposed. Having one of the final teams known the first day was really weird, as was splitting up a BO3 over 2 days. Too much group stage and not enough brackets. Also a lot of issues with audio, observer camera, etc.

And of course the finals were incredibly anti-climactic. No adjustments at all, very early GGs.

[Thrawn]

Having one of the final teams known the first day was really weird, as was splitting up a BO3 over 2 days.

I had completely forgotten about this until you brought it up, but 100% agreement.  The tournament structure could have been much better and made things much more interesting.  

Even though they played awful in those rounds and probably deserved to get eliminated, I also thought it felt a little weird that last years winner didn't even get a chance to play on the main stage.  (yes I know they were in the all-star game)

[Margalis]

The LoL LCS / World's has the same problem with long group staged followed by short brackets.

Round-robin group stages are sort of inherently less interesting. Early on you don't know how valuable a loss or win is so the stakes aren't there, and towards the end a lot of games are irrelevant as one team is either eliminated or getting through, so the stakes aren't there either.

In a double-elim bracket format every game has stakes - you know if you win you advance, if you lose you get dropped to a lower bracket, and if you lose from lower bracket you're out. Every match has clear ramifications you can understand, every win helps and every loss hurts.

[Hoax]

I thought the quality of play and the variety of strats and drafts were great. I have no complaints about the actual games beyond fuck China and fuck an all China grand finals because China.

That aside yes the format needs some serious work, they really ought to copy the world cup where the group stage is shorter and more meaningful because of smaller groups. With four groups of four playing round robin . You have increased the number of games were whats at stake is obvious and known and added more nail biting can they make it and hopefully win and in games.

You still get to a top8 and you can take your time and run a proper full double elim bracket where everyone starts in winners with scheduling that sucks a lot less.

[Falconeer]

I really dislike all kinds of nationalism and I don't want to feed the anti-China sentiment, but looks like Newbee are the biggest assholes in the whole tournament. Turns out Banana and Hao have been very vocal against team IG (at the time) for allowing non-Chinese players (Mushi and iceiceice) into their ranks because CHINA IS THE BEST AND SHOULDN'T RELY ON FOREIGNERS, but they went further. According to this video (skip to 0:50, but the taunting goes on and off through the whole game and especially the final part), they have been openly taunting them in a live game and while I cannot testify for what is being said or if there are other reasons unknown to us, I think it's safe to say that I'd be happy if these guys fell into a pool of guano with their mouth open. Instead, they beat everyone and walked home with 5M and their fuckin China Pride bullshit intact.

[apocrypha]

What's that? Huge competitions with millions in prizes and nation-based teams brings out the worst in people? New at 11. 

[Thrawn]

What's that? Huge competitions with millions in prizes and nation-based teams brings out the worst in people? New at 11. 

Apparently Kaci's (the reporter) Twitter and FB were being spammed with a lot of awful DotA stuff as well for a while.  Not that I'm shocked or anything.

[Hoax]

stuff

No, evil definitely triumphed this year, VG and Newbee are the two least likable teams from by far the least likable region. On the flipside it sure was a treat seeing Alliance completely choke on dick. Fuck those guys. Such a better tournament without them.