DOTA2

[Hoax]

Public Service Announcement: Playing Lycanthrope and jungling for the first 25 minutes without giving any help to any lanes, and then bitching when you team is behind because they'v ebeen playing 4 on 5 is a dick move.

You still get to win though because you're Lycan and you've been farming for 25 minutes. 

If Lycan took two Roshans and 3 towers while ignoring his team then he does get to bitch. If he hasn't been counter pushing all day and hasn't been getting aegis and bonus gold for everyone then he's a baddie and fuck him.

This isn't LoL, there are a ton of heros that need to farm for 15-25min before they can do what they do to win games to a way greater extent then you have in League. Its like when you have AM or Void and the team is bitching at him while they take 4v5 fights at enemy towers all mid game and let the other team get too far ahead to carry.

If both teams don't have a true farmrape hard carry then both teams need to make adjustments. Playing hard carry in the newb bracket is awful because your team wont:
-ward for you
-avoid starting big team fights while you have nothing but defensive/farming items
-carry tp to counter gank a gank on you
-clear space for you to farm
etc. etc.

You as much better off carrying newb games out of jungle as discussed earlier or by claiming solo mid with a ability rape hero like QOP or Tiny.

[Malakili]

Public Service Announcement: Playing Lycanthrope and jungling for the first 25 minutes without giving any help to any lanes, and then bitching when you team is behind because they'v ebeen playing 4 on 5 is a dick move.

You still get to win though because you're Lycan and you've been farming for 25 minutes. 

If Lycan took two Roshans and 3 towers while ignoring his team then he does get to bitch. If he hasn't been counter pushing all day and hasn't been getting aegis and bonus gold for everyone then he's a baddie and fuck him.

He took 0 towers, and 0 Roshans, and was behind on levels compared to most of us until it was too late for it to matter.

[cmlancas]

I'm going to feed so hard when I finally decide to play against other humans.  This won't be like LoL, where my first three games were something like 50/8/x on Annie.

This game is just really, really complex compared to what I'm used to.

The key is to find a group of folks who'll coach you through the subtle nuances of playing this game compared to HoN or LoL.

I find mastering one intelligence, agility, and strength hero goes a long way to learning the rest of the heroes.  Personally, I started with Kel'Thuzad (Lich), Traxex (Drow Ranger), and Slardar (Slitheren Guard).  It's not difficult to port how you play Lich to how you play Lina, Crystal Maiden, Lion, Zeus, or Shadow Shaman.  Same with Drow Ranger and Sniper, Venomancer, or Windrunner.

F13 is a great community to up your skills on this game -- nobody's going to wtf when you feed the first few times. (Right Haem?  Love you!  )  Here's the thing.  Everyone started out feeding.  But, one of the best feelings in DotA is the first time you orchestrate a gank that's based on your hero's power.  Mmmm

[Ingmar]

I'm up to 4-5 heroes I feel vaguely comfortable with so I should probably stop being a wuss and play real players. Lich, Crystal Maiden, Kunkka, Ursa, maybe Tidehunter.

[Malakili]

I'm up to 4-5 heroes I feel vaguely comfortable with so I should probably stop being a wuss and play real players. Lich, Crystal Maiden, Kunkka, Ursa, maybe Tidehunter.

Honestly, I found real players to be just as easy at the bots when I first switched over to "real" games.  I've only ever played random in games vs. real people and even now when I get someone I haven't used before I usually manage to fumble my way through it without being terrible.  The level of play doesn't strike me as especially high.

[Ingmar]

Yeah, that is what everyone keeps telling me. I just have a bit of a thing about going into competitive situations where I don't feel 'ready'. About the only time I've really been able to put it aside was doing 2v2 Arena with Fordel, and that was because we gave ourselves an excuse to not dominate with our crappy spec combination.  

EDIT: Plus, there's still a shitload of stuff I don't think I'm doing right. Like warding, I haven't really tried to figure out where/when/who is supposed to do that, etc.

[Hoax]

The medium bots are way better than the starting tier humans will be. Like way way better.

[Malakili]

It seems like I have teams sometimes which don't really have a hard carry and are up against a team with a hard carry or even two, but refuse to push early advantages even though thats the only way we can win with that composition.  I don't know if it is just that LoL has trained people so well to just ALWAYS farm or what, but its a bit frustrating to see the inevitable comeback coming, see the momentum start to swing, and your team never strikes while they have the chance.  Not really sure what to do about this problem, it seems like this was less of a problem in LoL because the meta game tended to be a lot more clear cut, which meant team make-ups rarely different as much as they frequently seem to in DOTA.

[Thrawn]

It seems like I have teams sometimes which don't really have a hard carry and are up against a team with a hard carry or even two, but refuse to push early advantages even though thats the only way we can win with that composition.  I don't know if it is just that LoL has trained people so well to just ALWAYS farm or what, but its a bit frustrating to see the inevitable comeback coming, see the momentum start to swing, and your team never strikes while they have the chance.  Not really sure what to do about this problem, it seems like this was less of a problem in LoL because the meta game tended to be a lot more clear cut, which meant team make-ups rarely different as much as they frequently seem to in DOTA.

I see this a lot too, you're not alone.  I played one over the weekend where our team wanted to try some push strat someone had read about.  We took Leshrac, Enigma and Prophet all mid and just pushed hard, sent Brood to bot to keep pressure and we had a WR top who was supposed to pick a hard carry to farm with but just chose not to.  We were at the tier 3 mid tower before probably 5 minutes.  We then went and pushed to tier 3 towers in top and bottom lane and took out all 3 rax towers but didn't get the barracks themselves yet.  Our team then proceeded to mostly just kind of wander around and farm and jungle and not group up to win feeling like we had already won despite Brood and I trying to explain over and over why we need to push and win right now.  About 40 minutes later their Drow Ranger was so farmed from defending that we just got destroyed.

One of the more upsetting games I played recently since it started off working so well.  Our Prophet was also terrible though, he took sprout first defeating the entire purpose of bringing him along to push with trees and then multiple times when bot lane was pushed to rax (with tower down) and the other team pushing us he refused to port in and kill it.

[cmlancas]

Goddamn frustrating games.

Just played one the other day against two hard carries w/ Lich.  Was L13 w/ mek, rest of their team was L9.  I said lets push...most everyone else wasn't buying it.

Thirty minutes later our faces were melted.

[Thrawn]

If anyone has an extra key laying around I'm looking for one for a friend, I'll gladly trade some TF2/DotA items for it as well.  (Was going to try to trade up for one in game but chat channels appear to be broken.)

[Fordel]

Yeah, that is what everyone keeps telling me. I just have a bit of a thing about going into competitive situations where I don't feel 'ready'. About the only time I've really been able to put it aside was doing 2v2 Arena with Fordel, and that was because we gave ourselves an excuse to not dominate with our crappy spec combination.  

EDIT: Plus, there's still a shitload of stuff I don't think I'm doing right. Like warding, I haven't really tried to figure out where/when/who is supposed to do that, etc.

Moonkin+Prot-Warrior was the new Meta man.  (I think my favorite part was how every season we would farm all the double DPS teams effortlessly, then finally hit the tier of "yes, yes we did actually bring a real a healer" and never get past it.)



Warding at our tier is pretty much just like the bots do it by default. Cover the rune spots and the main paths on the river into the jungle/side lanes. That's like, nine times out of ten, going to be ahead of the game and more then sufficient.

[Rasix]

In my first game against actual people, our duo top lane goes 5/30 combined    Some of these folks just kind of stand there and let you beat on them.

They fed the enchantress and sniper super hard.  I was planning on playing support but ended up with 30 more cs than anyone on my team as Shadow Shaman. Got a 1v2 lane and really didn't do bad in the laning phase.  I probably should have gibbed the dumb omniknight more, but if I chased, I was pretty sure the full HP Jugger would own me.  

[Fordel]

He'd give you the SPIN.

[Thrawn]

Yeah, that is what everyone keeps telling me. I just have a bit of a thing about going into competitive situations where I don't feel 'ready'. About the only time I've really been able to put it aside was doing 2v2 Arena with Fordel, and that was because we gave ourselves an excuse to not dominate with our crappy spec combination.  

EDIT: Plus, there's still a shitload of stuff I don't think I'm doing right. Like warding, I haven't really tried to figure out where/when/who is supposed to do that, etc.

An easy way to be the best player at the entry level bracket and something you should do anyways - carry a TP scroll always.  Unless it's the first buy and first few minutes of the game you should almost always have at least 1 TP scroll on you.  Once you get a better idea of what different heroes can do you can just laugh as they surround you for a gank and you safely teleport away while they hit you because they used all the stuns already.  Or when they dive another lane you just TP in behind them at the tower and clean up for a free double kill.

[Ice Cream Emperor]

Or when they dive another lane you just TP in behind them at the tower and clean up for a free double kill.

+1, this. Also builds crucial map awareness. Just remember to shift-click for your first movement after the tp, or you risk (like me) constantly cancelling your tp at the last moment. Though of course when you realize your allies are both already dead and there's four enemies there at full health, sometimes you might want to cancel your tp.

[Thrawn]

Just remember to shift-click for your first movement after the tp, or you risk (like me) constantly cancelling your tp at the last moment.

I still do this on occasion because I forget to shift-click and try to move as soon as possible.     Thankfully I don't think I've ever had a team mate notice.

[Ingmar]

I'm getting better at remembering to carry TP scrolls. I have to fight with my need to have MOAR STATS of course.

[cmlancas]

I'm getting better at remembering to carry TP scrolls. I have to fight with my need to have MOAR STATS of course.

i find people blindly put stats where they shouldn't sometimes.  Do you really think a little more intellect is important on Lich at level 20?

[Rasix]

Carrying around a TP scroll or two at all times has helped me a lot.  Playing Tide, someone can jump on me and once they blow their stun I just TP out if my ult is down. 

I stink as Leshrac.  I fed like a bitch, mostly due to Axe and his bullshit dot (TP scrolls would have helped) and a getting heavily focused in every encounter. Still got a win, because while they were dry humping my centaur ass, our Clinkz and Phantom Lancer were tearing them up.  That Axe dot is terrible when you're pushing them down and they're just turtling.   At least I did a decent job of knocking down towers.

Last two games have been DC fests with neither counting due to early disconnections.  The most recent client seems a bit unstable.  I'm getting crashes watching games, and certain people seem to be having issues with the client continually crashing.  Last game of the night was a 3v4 and basically impossible due to them have 2 hard carries and us unable to push.

[Malakili]

I'm getting better at remembering to carry TP scrolls. I have to fight with my need to have MOAR STATS of course.

One of the big differences between DOTA and LoL is that in DOTA 2 itemization is a lot more about the items on use abilities and special modifiers than about pure stats.  Unless you are a hard carry which stacks your main stat and damage, you end up getting a lot more bang for your buck from on use things than from an extra bit of stats. 

[Ice Cream Emperor]

Assuming you can remember to use them.   

[Ingmar]

I was thinking in particular of +health, armor, magic res, that sort of thing, not necessarily +int or whatever. Honestly I think where I generally screw up on item builds is accidentally doubling up on auras that other people have. The bots are terrible at telling me they've build a mek. 

[Thrawn]

Got Dark Seer random in all pick last night.  I've played him before and always found him very "meh" even though he's supposed to be so insane.  I got put top solo vs Invoker, the lane was pretty even for the start but eventually I figured out that I could just run up to him and kick his ass any time I wanted.  I started farming their jungle while the lane was pushed and getting kills. I got way ahead, I had multiple levels on them as well as Boots, Vanguard, Hood of Defiance and the start to a Mekansm before probably 20 minutes (not sure exact time) putting me close to 16hp a second if I remember right on top of the resist and armor.  I've possibly never enjoyed a game so much, I was the embodiment of "gives no fucks" as I just dived chased and killed anyone that came within range of me (was vs Invoker, Dazzle, Skel King, Pugna and Lich).  I just tanked all the damage that came in while killing everyone around me and if I did get in trouble I would just sprint out and heal up to go back in.  

Then the game I played the night before, I might post the replay for that one.  I was Rubick and I made it my mission to make their jungling Axe's life hell.  We dropped 4 wards in his jungle, I picked up DD and was harassing him, trying to lift him on top of terrain whenever I could, almost killed him when he made his first stack and starting jungling.  At about 3 minutes he had zero experience and was limping back to base on no health, he went "GG Rubick, you win" and then proceeded to just walk into our mid and feed until the game ended.  

[Rasix]

Another exciting night in newbie hell.

First game was as Tide.  With doom bringer, I have a dual bot against a storm spirit.  DB doesn't buy a single item and just runs up to the creep wave and autoattacks.  SS kills him 5 times before he ragequits.  I left that one once it was safe to do so.

Second game I notice that my doom bringer is now the other team's earthshaker.  YAY.  Unfortunately it looks like he's mid and I'm bot. But then I see that our Axe is going to jungle and our DB never connects.  So I rotate middle, kill him twice, and he ragequits out.  Didn't buy items this time either.  He mostly just hit me with his Q once and then watched as I auto'd him down.  The Phantom Assassin on the other team gets hella fed, but their Sven quits at 8, so it's a 3v4 and we're able to out push them after PA makes the mistake of trying to solo down our base without a TP scroll as the rest of our team pushes down their ancient.

Third game is as Lion.  I get a dual bot with a doom bringer.  They only send down a Lina, who just likes to throw off her Q and die badly. Our Morph ragequits at lvl 6 after already going 2/3 in that time.   I go mid and get possibly the worst Pudge I've ever seen.  I had to just laugh at him once when he missed a 5' hook.  The times he did hook me, I let him.  Just because it saved me having to use my force staff or lead with Q. Their disruptor ragequits at 7, didn't buy a single item.   Their Riki is getting super fed off our ridiculously dumb sniper and whomever was the other useless moron on our team (it was an Axe).  At one point Sniper says "gg, rikki too fat" and my eyes nearly roll out of my skull.  Eventually, DB gets super big and I buy a gem and the game is essentially over.  Rikki feasts no more and just seems to be baffled at how I frog and combo him down to 15% health out of nowhere.  Of course, everytime I do this Sniper or DB grab the kill (which is fine).  End up 12/1/11 in my most successful game to date.  Lion equipped with a force staff is just a hell of a lot of fun to play.

I haven't had a game without some sort of permanent disconnection in I my last 5.  And I've bought the courier and its upgrade in EVERY SINGLE FUCKING GAME I'VE PLAYED.    

[Ingmar]

Sounds awesome. 

I think I'm ready to take the plunge, I can probably queue up for one or two in between finishing Act 2 on my SI tonight and the GW2 headstart.

[Rasix]

You're about a 100 times better than 90% of the people in these games.  You see a few smurfy types (mostly playing carries) but otherwise, they're actual worse than easy bots.  I thought that was hyperbole before I actually saw it.

But then again, I've seen you try to last hit.     Just have fun buying all the couriers and wards (LOL) and being the only guy that builds based on how the game is actually progressing.

[Ingmar]

I intend to make at least Fordel play with me so we have 2 supports with our 3 misplayed hard carries.

[Fordel]

I dunno, it was pretty fun to watch Rasix despair as he got yet another 4 carrry + lion game. 


Making you squirm for at least one would be a hoot 

[Ingmar]

First game, I LOSE. I see about a million things I could do better, but I was actually holding my own fine in my starting lane at least, against someone who was actually doing denies against me and shit. I was told not to expect that.  

I got more denies than him, though, so yay. I was Kunkka against a Witch Doctor mid, and we had an Ursa who spent half the match AFK and ended up lower level than anyone else in the game. The people we were playing against seemed to have a clue, so that wasn't good.

My final line was an amazing 2/11/13. Some of that was getting farmed at the end, of course. I got a number of ships to land on their whole team, only to have nobody able to finish them off, that was slightly disappointing.

EDIT: 2nd game does not bear description D:

EDIT: 3rd game I feel like I was making progress, but our teammates were bad. Not that I am really adding win chance either but at least this time I didn't feel like I SUBTRACTED it. Mostly. I knew it was a bad sign when there were 2 guys on the other team with a shared tag who both fired off 'extra battle points' things at the start.

[Fordel]

No one was finishing them off because you kept boating like 10-30 seconds too early. 

[luckton]

Soooo....how can an interested individual get in to playing this without having to wait on Steam to 'maybe' invite them from the survey list?

[Kail]

Soooo....how can an interested individual get in to playing this without having to wait on Steam to 'maybe' invite them from the survey list?

I'm not sure, but the info on the store page leads me to believe you can just straight up buy access now, can you not?

[cmlancas]

You can buy access.  I did, and I don't regret it.  Has been 100% worth it.

I'm happy to show folks the ropes, I'm [f13]cmlancas on Steam.

[Fordel]

One of the teams in the international, had some Visa/passport issues or something and can't attend.

So there is a best of 5 playoff between Mousesports and WorldElite right now, for that last spot : http://www.joindota.com/en/live/tobiwan

-edit-
Games are over, the official prelims start tomorrow (sunday) 9 pdt.