Let's have an old RPG nostalgia thread

[Flinky]

Flinky forgot to mention one of my favourite Roguelike's  Ragnarok...I'll let Flinky detail it more

I have just one thing to say about Ragnarok;

HIGH SCORES:
Gromir the Level 1 Warrior - Killed by a bear in the Village on Turn 1

[WindupAtheist]

I really tried to give the 'real' version of Pool of Radiance a go, but I'm just not having it. After playing the NES version where the targeting cursor automatically changes when it's out of range or blocked by line of sight, having to target something, notice the lack of an attack option, select NO off a menu with only one entry, then target something closer and repeat until I figure out how far I can throw a dart or whatever just isn't acceptable at all.

[WindupAtheist]

I seriously have a D&D game itch for some reason, but PoR isn't holding up and I'm beyond played out on Baldur's Gate. I think it's time to give the Icewind Dale series a shot. I've never played them before. I know they're the more hack-and-slash and less story-driven cousins of the BG series, but that's about it.

What else is there? What's the scoop on Temple of Elemental Evil? I know Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor is supposed to be a total shitheap that makes your computer explode.

[Ingmar]

Ruins of Myth Drannor is awful for more reasons than just the format-your-hard-drive-if-you-uninstall it thing, it also doesn't let you control your level up choices.  

TOEE is a pretty good simulation of 3e rules but a pretty bad game from a 'fun' standpoint, and it has some really stupid interface issues as well.

IWD is more up your alley, I would say. IWD2 has more story in it than IWD1, but neither are anywhere near BG levels of that stuff. (Note also that IWD is 3e instead of 2e as the basic underlying rules but it still more or less plays like the other Infinity Engine games.)

I had trouble running IWD1/2 in widescreen mod mode without crippling lag, so if you can solve that let me know how you did it.

EDIT: Should note that they have some of the best RPG soundtrack music ever, too.

[Rasix]

The first IWD is great for pure combat driven AD&D game.  IWD2 is a bit of a mess and it just ends.  Seriously, the last boss happens and left thinking "that's it?"  Still, it's more of the same but at higher character levels.

[Strazos]

In IWD, dual-classing a lvl 1 fighter into wizard makes for some broken uses of Tenser's Transformation, just FYI. 

I remember it being good for other reasons, but that's the one that jumps out at me.

[Tannhauser]

TOEE is very faithful to the module so if you like old school with 3e then you'll look past the sluggishness.  Also fun to tweak the characters though archery seems weak.

[WindupAtheist]

Starting with IWD2 since the stories are unconnected and 2 goes up to higher levels. Installing now. I already miss BG2 class kits. I liked having an assassin instead of a thief, a blackguard (from a mod) instead of a fighter, etcetera. The IWD series doesn't have anywhere near the mods the BG series does.

On the bright side, looking at gear lists online shows me that this game doesn't suffer from the old "There are 400 types of weapons but you'll only ever use long swords!" problem that has plagued almost every other D&D game I've ever played. Especially fucking Pool of Radiance, where there were all these crazy obscure French polearms and shit, but the best long sword was +5 and nothing else went above +1.

[Ingmar]

IIRC, IWD1/2 loot is also randomized, so you won't be able to count on finding X weapon in a given playthrough.

[WindupAtheist]

Portrait art in IWD2 is better than the BG series. I mean, like, lots better. Wow. I won't even have to download any custom art I don't think.

[Merusk]

Portrait art in IWD2 is better than the BG series. I mean, like, lots better. Wow. I won't even have to download any custom art I don't think.

I recall that being the case and seeing someone use one for years as an avatar but I can't remember them now.   I do remember a few of the better ones being used in NWN, though.

Fake Ed: Found some/ all of them. The IWD2 pics are here: http://nwvault.ign.com/fms/Image.php?id=109718

Though I preferred some of the original IWD ones, you can see here.
http://nwvault.ign.com/fms/Image.php?id=109717

(Numbers going Top to bottom left to right) Row,Picture
R1,P4; R1,P8; R2,P3; R2,P8; R5,P1; R6,P8 was my party, if I remember right.

[Strazos]

If we're playing that game, my IWD party was:

R1, P4 & 7
R3, P3
R5, P5, 6, 7

Yes, I use full parties. I also had playthroughs with other members, but that was my first.

[rk47]

DARK SUN is still one of my fav. It didn't age well with awkward control scheme, but the story felt epic with multiple variable to make final battles easier.

It's abandonware too, so there's no excuse not to get it if you like it.

I wish any RPG dev take note of this less used setting and make a game out of this sometime.

[Strazos]

OH SNAP, Dark Sun....I still have a disk of that thing! We're talking Shattered Lands, right? I managed to beat it...once, with only my dwarf rogue still standing at the end, and I think that was a bug.

Game was pretty epic. It would be interesting to go back to it, as I'm much better at min-maxing than I was 15 years ago. 

[WindupAtheist]

All I did in the time I had for this game today is mess around making parties and learning this new-fangled Third Edition shit. (Hey I'm only ever exposed to this stuff in computer games.) I dunno whether to remake my old BG party or do something different. Is there a lot of loot to steal in towns in this? Is it worthwhile to have my standard two rogues, one specced to ninja-stab people, and the other specced to pickpocket and burglarize shit?

I'm inclined to give my cleric a level of fighter so that he's not derping around on the front lines with a mace for the entire game. I can start him as a cleric, add a fighter level, and get all those weapon proficiencies, right? (Cleric with a sword, WTFFFFF!) I always avoided dual-classing in the old games where XP was divided between the two forever, because spell progression > all for casters and HP > all for fighters.

[Ingmar]

You'll still be hurting your spell progression by multiclassing, but eh. On the rogue, you probably just need the one this time, a high enough int and you'll have tons of skill points anyway.

[rk47]

when i was a 13, i just ran around with 4 half-giant gladiators in Darksun.

Seems uncomplicated, but I still didn't finish the game due to buggy stuff in the game.. but it was fun.

[Job601]

All I did in the time I had for this game today is mess around making parties and learning this new-fangled Third Edition shit. (Hey I'm only ever exposed to this stuff in computer games.) I dunno whether to remake my old BG party or do something different. Is there a lot of loot to steal in towns in this? Is it worthwhile to have my standard two rogues, one specced to ninja-stab people, and the other specced to pickpocket and burglarize shit?

Although I like the IWD games, making your party is definitely more fun than anything else you get to do.  There is very little in the way of civilization, so I wouldn't worry too much about having a rogue except for traps (you also don't need a guy with charisma.) 

[Dren]

I started gaming, like a lot of you here, back in days of the VC20.  That was my first computer and I had to basically program my own RPG's.  8k memory with a cassette tape drive.  Good times.  Taught myself Basic and spent hours and hours making games.  The best one I did was based on the Raiders of the Lost Ark movie, which was new!

After that, it was tough due to my educator father giving me Apple computers instead of PC's.  Back then, it was hell finding anything decent to play for that platform.  Once I was out of college and my own man, I started buying PC's.

I can remember pretty much everything mentioned already.  The only one I didn't see and still sticks out in my mind are the Krondor series games.  It is funny because I wasn't reading the books at the time, but thought it was great.  I only recently (maybe 2 years ago,) read the whole series well past the books used for the game and it was a great nostalgic ride.

[WindupAtheist]

You'll still be hurting your spell progression by multiclassing, but eh.

Yeah but only by one level, right? So I'm no worse off than a caster that picked one of those fancy races with a 1 level penalty, and still better off than a drow caster with a 2 level penalty.

On the rogue, you probably just need the one this time, a high enough int and you'll have tons of skill points anyway.

So two fighters, a cleric, a thief, a mage, and then either a third fighter or a second cleric. Two thieves wasn't really orthodox in BG either (there were barely any single-class thieves in the game) but there was so much shit to steal that with my custom party I ended up loving it. By the beginning of BG2 my stealy-specced thief could basically just walk up to shops full of sweet magic items and go "Give me everything!"

There was a project to port BG/BG2 into the IWD2 3E engine, but I guess it never went anywhere. Too bad.

[Tebonas]

I remember the Bard being a good choice for the last slot. Bard Songs were nice buffs (one gave HP regeneration along with AC bonus and damage resistance if I remember correctly), plus both Healing and Damage Spells without having to decide beforehand (they work like Sorcerers).

[Sky]

What else is there?

I recommend Descent to Undermountain.

Fake Ed: Found some/ all of them. The IWD2 pics are here: http://nwvault.ign.com/fms/Image.php?id=109718

Hey, now I know where Kael grabbed most of his leader portraits from! 

[WindupAtheist]

I'd be a lot happier with this party creation if I didn't know that half the stuff that sounds good is just refuse from the pen-and-paper game that doesn't have the decency to let me know it'll never matter here. Three different skills for interacting with NPCs and the first thing I hear from other people is "hack and slash game, fuck charisma lol".

[Rasix]

Well, we weren't joking around when we said it was combat centric.  That's pretty much all you do. 

Sorry, you won't be able to write a book with this one.

[Flinky]

I'd be a lot happier with this party creation if I didn't know that half the stuff that sounds good is just refuse from the pen-and-paper game that doesn't have the decency to let me know it'll never matter here. Three different skills for interacting with NPCs and the first thing I hear from other people is "hack and slash game, fuck charisma lol".

The most important thing to remember when dealing with NPCs in Icewind is; if you want rewards, never initiate dialogue with a Monk or a Paladin. Paladins will refuse rewards on princiiple and Monks refuse to take material wealth of any kind.

You will get the chance to use the speech options, but generally not enough to worry about. If you want everything anyway, I'd recommmend having a Sorc handy. All of the upsides of high Char scores and none of the "Keep your baubles, good citizen!" downsides.

Also, Fireballs. WHENEVER YOU WANT.

[WindupAtheist]

I have a feeling I might not make it past character creation. Does anyone else remember that comic Samprimary did about D&D Online where you're looking at the creation screen and all the options are labeled WRONG, WRONG, FUCK YOU, WRONG?

Okay, example.

Does a dual-wielder need Two-Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity, or only the latter? Ambidexterity says it eliminates the -4 penalty to an off-hand weapon. Two-Weapon Fighting says it reduces the penalty by 2, but then it says "Special: Ambidexterity reduces the penalty by 4" right underneath that. So is that TWF telling me "Don't take me if you can get Ambidexterity!" or do I want TWF and Ambidexterity both? One of the stupid pre-made characters has both, but I don't know if that means you need them, or if that's just more RP flavor bullshit like their barbarian having 4 ranks of Wilderness Lore that will never matter.

[Rasix]

Fighter, fighter, mage, cleric, thief, bard.  I think that's what I beat it with.  I don't remember IWD2 being very hard. 

IWD1 was a lot harder mostly due to the "lol, low levels" D&D phenomenon and a large section with trolls.  Could only kill them with fire after incapacitating them.  Pain in the ass.

[Merusk]

I have a feeling I might not make it past character creation. Does anyone else remember that comic Samprimary did about D&D Online where you're looking at the creation screen and all the options are labeled WRONG, WRONG, FUCK YOU, WRONG?

Okay, example.

Does a dual-wielder need Two-Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity, or only the latter? Ambidexterity says it eliminates the -4 penalty to an off-hand weapon. Two-Weapon Fighting says it reduces the penalty by 2, but then it says "Special: Ambidexterity reduces the penalty by 4" right underneath that. So is that TWF telling me "Don't take me if you can get Ambidexterity!" or do I want TWF and Ambidexterity both? One of the stupid pre-made characters has both, but I don't know if that means you need them, or if that's just more RP flavor bullshit like their barbarian having 4 ranks of Wilderness Lore that will never matter.

If I remember the system right, you had to have Ambi and 2WF to get the -4.  Ambi on its own only reduced the penalty by -2, or simply wasn't available without 2wf. (which would mean the tooltip on ambi is wrong.)  It's been a long time though, so I can't remember it fully.

Wilderness Lore mattered for locating animal encounters, I think.  Maybe detecting 'traps' in the wild... but yeah it was pretty useless.

I'd stick a druid in the party vs another melee or cleric, but I always liked them for their over-all package.  Decent CC spells, backup healing and shapeshifting for when you need more front line fighting.

[Mazakiel]

I have a feeling I might not make it past character creation. Does anyone else remember that comic Samprimary did about D&D Online where you're looking at the creation screen and all the options are labeled WRONG, WRONG, FUCK YOU, WRONG?

Okay, example.

Does a dual-wielder need Two-Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity, or only the latter? Ambidexterity says it eliminates the -4 penalty to an off-hand weapon. Two-Weapon Fighting says it reduces the penalty by 2, but then it says "Special: Ambidexterity reduces the penalty by 4" right underneath that. So is that TWF telling me "Don't take me if you can get Ambidexterity!" or do I want TWF and Ambidexterity both? One of the stupid pre-made characters has both, but I don't know if that means you need them, or if that's just more RP flavor bullshit like their barbarian having 4 ranks of Wilderness Lore that will never matter.

If I remember how 3e worked, dual wielding without either feat gives you two attacks, one at -4 and one at -8.  Adding ambidexterity makes it -4/-4.  Adding two weapon fighting would make it -2 and -6.  So stacking them both gives you a final result of -2/-2.  

[WindupAtheist]

Thanks for the clarification. I'll just take both.

Hmm. I've never messed with druids. I'll have to look into them.

[Ingmar]

You need both. It is something like -4/-8 with neither feat, -4/-4 with ambidexterity, -2/-2 with both TWF and ambidexterity. Rangers don't need to take it though, they get it as a bonus. (Possibly not at first level, I can't remember exactly which rules variation IWD2 uses.)

There's more talking in IWD2 than there was in IWD1 so it doesn't hurt to have a party face character at all. I think a lot of the people making recommendations about skipping all that stuff are thinking more of IWD1.

[WayAbvPar]

Thanks for the clarification. I'll just take both.

Hmm. I've never messed with druids. I'll have to look into them.

Yep, that sounds correct. As for druids and bards and such- they always seem to be much more fun to roleplay in a PnP setting than useful in a cRPG setting. Rangers too to a lesser extent- so many out of combat abilities...you are better off making another cleric and another fighter or paladin.

[Job601]

You need both. It is something like -4/-8 with neither feat, -4/-4 with ambidexterity, -2/-2 with both TWF and ambidexterity. Rangers don't need to take it though, they get it as a bonus. (Possibly not at first level, I can't remember exactly which rules variation IWD2 uses.)

There's more talking in IWD2 than there was in IWD1 so it doesn't hurt to have a party face character at all. I think a lot of the people making recommendations about skipping all that stuff are thinking more of IWD1.

I did play both and I can't say that I remember which is which, except for the 2e vs. 3e ruleset, so I probably was thinking of IWD1.  From a min/max perspective I seem to remember that 2 handed weapons are really much much better than two weapon-fighting in IWD2 -- does that seem right?

[WayAbvPar]

This thread inspired me to fire up ToEE again. Everyone is still 2nd level and I have to figure out a way to kill a Hill Giant and his pet brown bear (which has 3 attacks. something like 1d12 1d12 3d6 or something horrible). If anyone other than my front line fighters gets hit, they are dead. Not down, dead. Had my 24 HP dwarven fighter catch all 3 from the bear in one round and went from full health to DEAD. I wonder if I am here too early? 

[Ingmar]

There's no big hurry to go mess around in Emridy Meadows, the Moathouse should really be where you mess around first.