Let's have an old RPG nostalgia thread

[Malakili]

So, I happen to get a e-mail from gog over the weekend saying they were having a sale or something, so I clicked on the link and Fallout 2 was $3.00.  I couldn't pass it up, so I bought it (its still 3 bucks, comes with soundtrack, manual, survival guide etc).

So I started playing through it again and my goodness I remember why I used to love the RPG genre so much.  I've sort of been a bit outspoken about how I haven't liked story in games recently and how at some point I stopped liking RPGs as much as I used to.  And Fallout 2 has really helped to sort of crystalize that feeling for me.  Its just so damned good.  This isn't really news to anyone here, but here is just an example from the first, hell, 15 minutes, that really made me happy:

 
So, right in the beginning I found C4, and I found a door that I was informed by the game text was locked and couldn't be opened at all.  I honestly didn't remember if it was supposed to or not, but I reasoned that I could probably blow the door with c4.  I set the charge next to the door, put the timer for 30 seconds, and ran!   The thing went off in about 20 seconds and I got the message because of my poor explosives skills, it detonated early.  I did get the door open though!

I was talking with my friend about this, and we thought, in today's RPGs, and NPC would hand you the c4 at the beginning of the missions, saying you'd need it to open a door.  Then you'd get to the door, hit the "plant c4" button, and then a cut scene would play with you jumping behind some crates as the door blew.  This would be judged as a "cinematic experience." Instead, there was no info telling me what to do, I got stuck, and I just had to ACTUALLY search the place for a solution. 

So, what old RPGs have you played lately, and why do you love them?

[sinij]

fallout 1&2, planescape tournament, baldur gate 1&2 these are "golden age" RPGs. Fallout Last Vegas and Dragon Age came close to "good old days" but not quite - too many concessions to consoles.

[Ivanneth]

Baldur's Gate Tutu - Link for those who may be unfamiliar - has a permanent place on my computer. It gets fired up every time I get the itch to play, which is usually every month or two. I always start a new character with the intention of playing through BG1, BG2 + expansions, but I rarely make it past BG1 + expansion before either losing interest or being struck with another idea for a character that I just have to try. This is in spite of the fact that Jon Irenicus (BG2) is my favorite villain from any game. BG2 was great, but it just doesn't quite match the open-ness of BG1.

I've been enjoying Galactic Civilizations 2 lately as well, though it isn't really that old. I just like the 'old' turn-based 4X style strategy game.

[Kail]

I've been on a bit of a retro kick lately, thanks to GoG.  I keep looking for an old game I can do a radicalthon on, and keep drawing blanks.  Thought I'd give Ultima Underworld a try, but I know nothing about the game or Ultima in general, and the controls gave me a headache.  Thought maybe I'd try Baldur's Gate, before I remembered it's already been done.  Thought I might give the old Vampire the Masquerade game (Redemption) a try, but holy hell, the combat in that game is MADDENING.  Then I thought maybe I'd try Arcanum, before I remembered that's already been done, too (and I always want to play a tech character, and they're completely broken).  Gave Fallout a try, but I have no idea what I'm doing, and I think I might have gotten stuck in an unrecoverable spot.

I have Septerra Core sitting next to my PC, I keep meaning to play it, maybe I'll get around to it one of these days.

Probably my favorite old RPG series is Quest for Glory, because it's fucking awesome.  It's half RPG, half adventure game, so there's lots of ways to solve problems that don't involve murdering things, which is a problem that annoys me with a lot of RPGs.  Plus, since you can play through as different classes, there are multiple ways to solve most of the puzzles.  It lets you import characters from previous games into the sequels, which was pretty impressive to me (especially considering the time scale involved; grab a character file from 1989's QfG1 and you can import him into 1998's QfG5 with no problems).

[Selby]

I miss the Might and Magic series.  Even up through 8 (2000) it was still a pretty decent series and was good for great entertaininment value & replay.  Some stumbles along the way (6 was notoriously combat heavy in an annoying way) but I played through all of them (except 1, too vintage) and enjoyed myself immensely.  Lots of time in high school was spent playing 2 & 3.

[Xilren's Twin]

I've been on a bit of a retro kick lately, thanks to GoG.  I keep looking for an old game I can do a radicalthon on, and keep drawing blanks.  Thought I'd give Ultima Underworld a try, but I know nothing about the game or Ultima in general, and the controls gave me a headache.  Thought maybe I'd try Baldur's Gate, before I remembered it's already been done.  Thought I might give the old Vampire the Masquerade game (Redemption) a try, but holy hell, the combat in that game is MADDENING.  Then I thought maybe I'd try Arcanum, before I remembered that's already been done, too (and I always want to play a tech character, and they're completely broken).  Gave Fallout a try, but I have no idea what I'm doing, and I think I might have gotten stuck in an unrecoverable spot.

I game i fondly remember was one of the Ultima series spinoffs: Worlds of Ultima the Savage Empire.  A homage to the Lost World kind of setting complete with dinosaurs, inca inspired indian tribes and hidden secrets, even a sleestack substitute...  I distinctly remembered how cool it was when i figured out i could construct primitive firearms.  As linked to, available on abandonware sites...

[Sjofn]

Probably my favorite old RPG series is Quest for Glory, because it's fucking awesome.  It's half RPG, half adventure game, so there's lots of ways to solve problems that don't involve murdering things, which is a problem that annoys me with a lot of RPGs.  Plus, since you can play through as different classes, there are multiple ways to solve most of the puzzles.  It lets you import characters from previous games into the sequels, which was pretty impressive to me (especially considering the time scale involved; grab a character file from 1989's QfG1 and you can import him into 1998's QfG5 with no problems).

I fucking loved that series. So fucking much. I played the shit out of those, and I would totally play the shit out of them again if they magically appeared on my computer. The only other series that came close back then on the "played the shit out of" scale was the Space Quest series (well, and the original Sims, I guess, but that doesn't count).

I am pretty sure anyone who has eyed my steam stats knows what series is the current "plays the shit out of" winner, though.  

[Rasix]

I have Septerra Core sitting next to my PC, I keep meaning to play it, maybe I'll get around to it one of these days.

Don't.  It's fucking terrible.  I bought it launch.  I still remember why I quit: it was goddamn tedious to play. Monster spawn points were static and reset every time you changed areas, which was often.  Plus the battles took forever. That quickly nullified any of the charm it had.

[Flinky]

The Exile series. Specifically Exile III: Ruined World.

Still have a copy on my computer. Loved the ability to wander around and find all sorts of hidden nooks and crannies and how often finding those places got you into horrible unexpected death filled situations. Also loved the way the story progressed and how the longer you stall the worse the world gets. I used to play through over and over again just to see how few party members I could finish the game with (my best was 3 Slith).

To this day the mention of the Golem Tower causes me to swear uncontrollably.

[rk47]

Arcanum - Troika really wasted a lot of potential with the setting. Magic + Steampunk is not even common these days, the most recent example being Fable 3 and Dungeon Siege 3. The SPECIAL system they copied over from Fallout Series was peppered with more stats and variety of skills. It did not mesh.

Pros: Interesting setting and somewhat cool choices that affect endings you'll get.
Cons: Bad combat balancing and buggy at release.
Available at www.gog.com - worth the price, especially with High Resolution mod for 16:9 monitors and above.

Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader - Another failed potential from Black Isle. They pulled off Icewind Dale 1 & 2 as well as Fallout 2. But Lionheart is beyond saving. Set in 15th Century Europ where magic and demon mingle with the Crusades, the player must choose between factions of Inquisition, Knight Templars and the prosecuted Wielders of Magic. And that's where the interesting part ends. The SPECIAL stats adopted from Fallout promised so much yet dies a horrible death when real-time combat was unveiled with punishing combat-oriented world and horrible level-scaling. Gamers were forced to abandon their games due to their 'non-optimized builds' failing to make the cut in mid point of the game. Mobs literally destroy them in one hit. Not for the faint-hearted.

Pros: Intriguing game world with historical figures making appearance.
Cons: Horrid action rpg interface and level scaling making this game unplayable. I literally abandoned 3-4 playthroughs and was crying for difficulty slider before beating it with lots and lots of perseverance.

[Ingmar]

You left out on the 'Con' list for Arcanum that 90% of the game is spent slogging through fairly identical sewers and mines, populated by monsters where no apparent thought was put into the mix of difficulties. A room full of level 3 rats! A level 25 gore guard! Back to level 3 kites! The way shit actually works with your stats and skills and such is also horribly documented and in some cases actually lies to you.

On Lionheart, it should be noted that Black Isle was not the studio that developed it, that would be Reflexive.

[koro]

If you can track down a copy (it's not on GoG, and I don't think anyone knows who the hell owns the license for it; I'd venture to guess Atari, but who knows), I'd say play some Darklands. One of my favorite RPGs ever, and since it's by Microprose, there's a nice and tasty 200 page manual to read through. Open-world sandboxy stuff set in medieval Germany with a proto-Baldur's Gate combat system and some fairly in-depth character creation. No magic (though some supernatural elements exist), instead you use alchemy to make potions with a variety of effects (which I believe was a novelty roughly 20 years ago when the game came out) or pray to Catholic saints for aid, depending on your acquired knowledge of the saint and the situation at hand.

It's got a few problems though, namely the fact that it's a complete and utter pain in the ass to learn new alchemy formulae and the various saints, and gathering enough ingredients in order to make enough potions to even bother with takes upwards of an in-game year to accomplish. The few quests you can accept are also quite difficult to accomplish, and the main plotline is buried so deep and so dependent on other random stuff happening to discover that I didn't even know the main story even existed until more than ten years after I got the game.

Even still, it's a really good game that's surprisingly stable on modern hardware, especially given how much of a pain it was to get running back in the day. I haven't tried it on Win7 yet, but even as late as WinXP I could run it just straight from the .exe and it'd boot up and run perfectly without needing to use DOSBox. Just hunt down a .jpg of the copy protection alchemical symbols, though; whoever boxed my old original copy neglected to include the copy protection leaflet, so I had to hit up the county library and find old books with alchemical symbols in them and write them down to use.

[Tebonas]

Oh yes, Darklands. I think I found it on some Abandonware site some time ago (my original disks are 5 1/4"). Loved that game, especially the character creation.

The Alchemy symbols were in the margins of the original handbook, not a leaflet. At least in my version. But yes, they were the historical symbols, so every source works.

What I played recently: Arcanum and Avernum (the updated version of Exile). Wanted to work my way up to part 6, but those games are huge!

[rk47]

Realms of Arkania - Sir Tech
Oh, look, I got cut...need treatment...
Witch, treat wounds.
FAIL. You've caught tetanus!

Jagged Alliance - Sir Tech
Mercs, guns for hire. X-Com with real personalities.

[Tebonas]

Realms of Arkania is from Attic Entertainment, Sir Tech was only the US publisher (which is important if you want to find the GoG version, which has it listed under Attic)  

Edit: And Dark Heart of Uukrul, how could I forget about that. Talk about a Hard game. Both hard puzzles and character Permadeath with fixed Safepoints.

[Sheepherder]

Ultima, specifically VI and VII.

Ultima VII and Serpent Isle are goddamn masterpieces of engine design.  Pretty much took a decade for the rest of the chucklefucks in game design to catch up.

Ultima VI is just a plain fucking badass story about why exactly Lawful Good alignment just doesn't fucking work.

[rk47]

U7 wasn't much of a game to me. I was just more interested in walking around, hoarding gold in my ship..then found a carpet. Stuffed 2-3 barrels full of meat in there..then another chest containing dozens of weapons and phat loot we had.

It was the best medieval sim ever....i felt so sad when it was all over...

u6 had interface problems and really needs a remake to make ppl understands what's a great story n setting is about in rpgs.

[Lucas]

Beside the usual "rose-tinted glasses" argument, Ultima VII was unique for another reason too.

- Think about the latest Bioware RPGs or others: you have the distinct feeling that the game is structured in various stand-alone "hubs", in other words a "modular" approach, and in each of them you have various plots and so called "quest-givers". Yes, they try to simulate a world but, at least for me, the "artificial" feeling is still there, no matter how good the story or the design is (and I really like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, for example).

- Then, think about Ultima VII: it was really an attempt at creating a virtual world and a realistic society (while in the background of course you have an overarching, epic plot to save the world). Every NPC has a specific reason to be there, from Abraham and Elizabeth running around Britannia, to those folks setting up a theatrical display outside Trinsic. It's a realistic medieval society, a rural one, with "real" problems (the poor folks of Paws, the miner problems in Minoc, the on-going integration of another race in Vesper, the toxic waste of Lock Lake): "quest givers" were cleverly concealed. Oh, and of course the much praised (and still to be replicated nowadays) schedules. That's why, at least from a strictly "world simulation" point of view, Ultima VII (both) are still the best CRPGs ever created (then your taste may vary, of course. Planescape Torment, BG and Arcanum were awesome too, each for their own reasons).

[WindupAtheist]

I'll just add that for my money, Daggerfall is the best Elder Scrolls game.

[rk47]

I'll just add that for my money, Daggerfall is the best Elder Scrolls game.

Yeah, unforgettable dungeon crawling experience and amazing character customization. If you want example of why streamlining is bad, just play Daggerfall and compare it to Oblivion.

[Mrbloodworth]

I have been playing a great deal of Ultima underworld. I am constantly reminded of how this game was ahead of its time in so many ways. Hopefully i can finish it, and move on to UW:2, a title I never played when it came out, I think by then i was sucked into the wing commander ride.

[Sky]

Daggerfall is the only vintage game I've played in a while.

My fiancee thought it was really cool, she loved the music and atmosphere.

One odd little game I used to like years back was Evil Islands. How about Temple of Apshai?  

I have been playing a great deal of Ultima underworld. I am constantly reminded of how this game was ahead of its time in so many ways.

That was my second era of gamer elitism (first being c64 Ultima4/5 while the plebes were playing super mario). Bunch of my friends were raving about zomg3dworld DOOOM and I'm all, yeah, Ultima Underworld.

[fatboy]

What a great thread!  You guys are really bringing back some good (and some not so good...) memories.

I'll go old school and mention Dungeon Master for my first computer - an Atari ST.  circa 1987 from FTL games.

One of the first, if not the first 3D dungeon crawls.  Puzzles, traps, monsters that moved.  

No maps.  No internet.  No clue books.  You had to feed and water your characters.  You needed torches or spells to light your way.  You had to sleep.  You had to map by hand on graph paper like D&D (and pausing the game was a black screen, so all mapping was real time with real monsters that could attack you as you were mapping).

Excellent, excellent game.

[WindupAtheist]

How about Temple of Apshai?  

I still have this sitting in my closet somewhere on three Commodore 64 cassette tapes. It ran in BASIC, so back in the day when I was a kid, I LISTed it, figured out the variables for the different stats, added a few LET statements, and made myself a god. Good times.

[Draegan]

I want to go back to when I played this game for the first time.

[Xuri]

Since my other old favorites (Darklands, Daggerfall, Ultima Underworld + U7, BG) have already been mentioned by others, I'll instead mention an obscure game I played what seems like an eternity ago, but I still remember the name of because it was such awesome fun:

The Aethra Chronicles - a shareware RPG (possibly the best shareware RPG ever made) that was supposed to come in three parts, but the author only completed the first part, leaving you with a cliff-hanger ending a third of the way through the story :P Clichéd plot, artwork and sound were freeware stuff, but great depth and it apparently uses a percentage-system from Role-Master instead of dice, for those who care about that sort of thing.

From the user-manual:

Short Description: A fantasy role-playing game with High Resolution
   16 Color EGA/VGA graphics

Long Description:  The Aethra Chronicles is a fantasy role playing game
   similar in style to Ultima and Bards Tale.  The player is on a
   quest to discover who has kidnapped the newborn prince and why.
   The game starts with the player creating his character and two
   companions. Additional companions may be hired or found at some
   point in the game. The quest will take the characters to every
   town and village in the land. Many fearsome creatures will have
   to be faced. There are over a hundred different monsters from
   the lowly Giant Rat to the fearsome Red Dragon.

[Selby]

I'll go old school and mention Dungeon Master for my first computer - an Atari ST.  circa 1987 from FTL games.

Having to raise magic levels... having to use runes to make spells in flasks (and how 1-2 of the runes weren't even used...).  I think I got to the 5th level... wherever the giant worms were that I couldn't kill.  It was an exercise in frustration.

[Maledict]

I'll go old school and mention Dungeon Master for my first computer - an Atari ST.  circa 1987 from FTL games.

Having to raise magic levels... having to use runes to make spells in flasks (and how 1-2 of the runes weren't even used...).  I think I got to the 5th level... wherever the giant worms were that I couldn't kill.  It was an exercise in frustration.

At, thats level 4 with the purple wurms and their respawn points. (plus a single solitary ghost who wandered around). It worries me I can, to this day, remember each level of Dungeon Master. Played that game to death, and at the time it was so ground breaking and ahead of the game.

Also echo the above comment about Might and Magic. Only 3 months ago I finally finished M&M3 - I think I first played that game 16 years ago! Numbers 3 through to 7 were all great games - it's always surprised me that they haven't been quickly ported to the iPad or something as they would be ideal for the system if cleaned up a tad.

[Xuri]

This seems relevant: A lblog where a guy documents his experiences in attempting to play and review (in chronological order) every CRPG released for PC. Or at least those that are mentioned on Wikipedia and Mobygames. I think he's up to 1988 by now.
 
http://crpgaddict.blogspot.com/

[Tebonas]

Its been a long time, but I think all runes have been used in Dungeon Master.

The purple worms were the difficult monsters. but I think at the beginning there were conveniently places doors nearby, that and hit and retreat made them into good sources of food and not much else. Standing in front of monsters and getting hit was a bad idea quite often. "Step left, turn right, melee left, melee right, repeat" is something my motor memory is still able to do in its sleep. Worked in Eye of the Beholder as well  

I always used Resurrection though, it gave you superior characters very soon, just make those MA potions as soon as mana regenerates.

[Rasix]

Fucking back button ate my post.  Ugg, I'll just shorten this up I guess.

I just can't retro-game anymore.  Not enough time.  Especially not enough time for the likes of BG 1/2 or PS:T.  The oldest game I have installed on my home system (if you ignore the SNES emulator) is Deus Ex.  But then again, the earliest I really got into computer gaming was around the release of Warcraft II.  I have no memories of a lot that's being mentioned and some stuff just won't be playable for me due to a combination of hassle to get running, graphics, and especially old, shitty UIs.

Oh, I do have Ultima 7 installed on my work laptop.  I always end up playing the first few hours of it and then just wandering off.  It is very cool, but I just can't stay focused on it when I can barely keep up with recent releases.

Arcanum is one I'd like to play though if I get time.  However, the combat balance is a fucking mess and I'm afraid what I'd want to play would be totally gimp at a certain point in the game. That's what killed it for me last time.

I'd There's also a lot of older PS2 releases I'd like to get through.  However, older, long JRPGs are just as much of a nonstarter due to their insane length.  

The only things I really tended to fire up on a regular basis (at least a year or two ago) and then put down just as quicky are (in no particular order):  Deus Ex, Earthbound, FFVI,  Fallout 2 (even though I'd rate 1 higher, 2 is more fun to play), Ultima 7 (as mentioned)  and VtM: Bloodlines (I know it's not that old, but it feels like a relic).

[sinij]

Arcanum was a shitty game. I own a copy but never had patience to finish it after more than few attempts. "Crafting" system alone is vomit-inducing.

[Ingmar]

I'll just add that for my money, Daggerfall is the best Elder Scrolls game.

Gimme your money!

[Lucas]

Like Maledict, I'm a tad worried that, even nowadays, I can remember almost every level of Dungeon Master. From Lv5 onward, the difficulty really increased: I fondly remember the "master level" with all the locked doors you had to insert the "RA Keys" in, that will eventually lead you to the Firestaff; also, the infamous third level, "Choose your destiny, choose your fate". And what about that incredible fight with the Red dragon, that lasted forever?

Personally, I find the Bard's Tale saga enjoyable, even nowadays: problem is managing to get past the initial bore, when you are REALLY weak and you are trapped in the rinse & repeat cycle "fight monsters inside the houses-buy/sell items/go to the review board". The first dungeons are not that interesting either (wine cellar, the first couple levels of the sewers), but when you finally manage to get into the Catacombs and Harkyn Castle, game becomes great (same thing with the third episode when you finally access the other dimensions and the two unlockable classes).

[Ruvaldt]

The first serious game I played to completion was Wastelands on a C64, and I continue to replay it every three years or so.  I can remember being ecstatic when Fallout was released and it felt like a real spiritual successor to that long lost gaming experience.

There were several other real winners back then that kept me chained to the desk: Legacy of the Ancients, Bard's Tale II...

Oh, and Darklands!  It was my first encounter with non-linear gameplay, and the world seemed spectacularly large and full of mystery. 

Maybe it's just nostalgia or I've become older and more jaded, but those rpgs really seemed to suck me in a lot more than any modern iterations of the genre have been able to.  There was far less hand holding when it came to the actual roleplaying of your character(s), which allowed the player to use some imagination and critical thinking to solve problems.  Hell, I remember keeping graph paper on my desk just so that I could map out dungeons while I played.  I miss that, but I also acknowledge that now that I'm an adult I probably wouldn't have time to do all of that stuff like I did when I was younger.