Another One Bites the Dust: SWG Edition!

[Sky]

To reiterate: The "you just weren't playing right" comments from raider-haters have been the best part of this thread.

But to provide an answer: the catass achievers in SWG actually helped the community because it was based on people buying up their stuff. Without the folks who tirelessly surveyed the planets to find the very best raw ingredients, who developed the schematics and created the amazing rifle of pwnage, my casual self wouldn't have been able to dislike the combat half as well.

edit: Oh, man. Now I'm agreeing with Dark_MadMax. Time to lock this thread! 

[Nija]

Really?

All the other stuff the game had going on and that's what you're stuck on? Shit, I was barely on the settled planets enough to care.

They got a box sale and a free month out of me. I didn't see anything beyond the land-rush and one shot rifle kills.

[WindupAtheist]

I made this back when laughing at twitch was still new. May as well use it one last time.

[DraconianOne]

Isn't it time for some Vader pics now?

Or, how about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFKnMCRwNOI

[eldaec]

I'm a UO guy and a non-raider and every single time people talk about this game it sounds fucking terrible

Why do you hate Star Wars WUA?

[Ingmar]

That's important to understand, Sjofn.  Social dynamics were very different, so behaviors were, too.  You can't apply a lot of the behaviors you've seen in other MMOs to SWG because the environments were not interchangable.  It's why the game spawn multiple 200 page threads.

This. A million times, this. If you didn't play it. And I mean, really play it; if you didn't go out there and grind a few professions and hang with a some people and just really become part of the whole ecosystem, you won't understand. There is no comparison to raids and raiders that will ever accurately fit what happened in SWG.

You sound exactly like the raiders in vanilla WoW trying to 'explain' to casuals that they could never understand what was involved in raiding without actually doing it. I mean literally you're using the exact same words they did, with what at least comes across as the same attitude.

EDIT: And also exactly like the 8v8 purist PVPers from DAOC, now that I think about it.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, it's the exact same "You just aren't doing it right, duh" vibe. And that's fine, it just means the game wasn't for me, because the way of doing it right (much like vanillla raiding in WoW) makes my eye twitch just thinking about it. I wouldn't have wished NGE on it, that's for sure. But it doesn't mean the game was some sort of nirvana that if only people would try harder, they too could love the catassery.

[WindupAtheist]

Why do you hate Star Wars WUA?

Are you kidding? I love Star Wars! All those long drawn-out scenes of Luke and Han accompanying crafters into the forest while they mine ore to make blasters, oh and all the heroic animal tamers and pikemen fighting against the evil Empire! Who can forget the exciting sequence of Luke getting a doctor to buff him so his Stormtrooper armor didn't fall off?

Fuck this game, it should have been murdered in the cradle.

[Crumbs]

Well hey, we get a NGE do-over around September, so all is not lost.   

[DraconianOne]

Fuck this game, it should have been murdered in the cradle.

So should you but these boards would have been that much less without your ubiquitous charm.

[eldaec]

Why do you hate Star Wars WUA?

Are you kidding? I love Star Wars! All those long drawn-out scenes of Luke and Han accompanying crafters into the forest while they mine ore to make blasters, oh and all the heroic animal tamers and pikemen fighting against the evil Empire! Who can forget the exciting sequence of Luke getting a doctor to buff him so his Stormtropper armor didn't fall off?

Fuck this game, it should have been murdered in the cradle.

You're just pissed that they removed outcasting.

[UnSub]

Wakes are rarely ever any fun, and this thread stands testament to that fact.

[Hoax]

That's important to understand, Sjofn.  Social dynamics were very different, so behaviors were, too.  You can't apply a lot of the behaviors you've seen in other MMOs to SWG because the environments were not interchangable.  It's why the game spawn multiple 200 page threads.

This. A million times, this. If you didn't play it. And I mean, really play it; if you didn't go out there and grind a few professions and hang with a some people and just really become part of the whole ecosystem, you won't understand. There is no comparison to raids and raiders that will ever accurately fit what happened in SWG.

You sound exactly like the raiders in vanilla WoW trying to 'explain' to casuals that they could never understand what was involved in raiding without actually doing it. I mean literally you're using the exact same words they did, with what at least comes across as the same attitude.

EDIT: And also exactly like the 8v8 purist PVPers from DAOC, now that I think about it.

I don't think this is a fair comparison at all.

The early days of MMO were different, the early days when something is barely defined are always a little crazy compared to what it becomes once its a known commodity. Early EQ1 and other games of that era were virtual worlds first and games second. It was much more wild west either in terms of pvp, death penalties, progression, zone size, no instancing whatever. I think it was less about those aspects of the MMO's back then though and more about the gamers themselves. We didn't go into those early attempts with anything but wide eye'd wonder and a willingness to immerse ourselves in the game world. Its just not that way anymore.

I don't think that is really the same as raiders telling casuals that they will never get it.

[Surlyboi]

That's important to understand, Sjofn.  Social dynamics were very different, so behaviors were, too.  You can't apply a lot of the behaviors you've seen in other MMOs to SWG because the environments were not interchangable.  It's why the game spawn multiple 200 page threads.

This. A million times, this. If you didn't play it. And I mean, really play it; if you didn't go out there and grind a few professions and hang with a some people and just really become part of the whole ecosystem, you won't understand. There is no comparison to raids and raiders that will ever accurately fit what happened in SWG.

You sound exactly like the raiders in vanilla WoW trying to 'explain' to casuals that they could never understand what was involved in raiding without actually doing it. I mean literally you're using the exact same words they did, with what at least comes across as the same attitude.

EDIT: And also exactly like the 8v8 purist PVPers from DAOC, now that I think about it.

Except, that I've raided. And the comparison is bullshit. Raiding is nothing like what went on in SWG. So yeah, compare me to those asshats all you want. Still not nearly the same.

[Lantyssa]

Yeah, it's the exact same "You just aren't doing it right, duh" vibe. And that's fine, it just means the game wasn't for me, because the way of doing it right (much like vanillla raiding in WoW) makes my eye twitch just thinking about it. I wouldn't have wished NGE on it, that's for sure. But it doesn't mean the game was some sort of nirvana that if only people would try harder, they too could love the catassery.

It's not about telling you how to play.  Those days are long gone.  I'm simply explaining my perceptions of how it was.  It may never be reproduceable, and I won't claim that it's gaming paradise for everyone.  For some of us though, it's not something which has been replicated.

I'm just saying there wasn't the disparity that you seemed to think existed between crafters and combat players.  My PA was 150+ at its peak, but from when it was just twenty people with an outpost in the middle of nowhere to a teeming city, there was a place for everyone.  I saw it in other guilds, and I saw it running into complete strangers in the middle of nowhere.  Being able to set up temporary camps ten miles from nothing which turns into a camping party is just not something possible in other games.

The social dynamics were different.  There can be debate about if it was the systems, or the people attracted by the systems, or timing in the MMO genre, but the feel of the game was different.  That's all I'm saying.

[taolurker]

So along with closing SWG, Sony has also decided to change their pricing plans.

A copy of the email I just received:

Full pricing plan details are here: http://www.soe.com/gamepass/

[UnSub]

Heh, it's reduced the cost to play DCUO from AU$20 to AU$16. Too late, too late. 

[5150]

Ok I appreciate this reply is some 4 pages late but I managed to miss the beginning of the thread due to working at places with web filters in place :-(

The biggest thing I never understood was why SWG couldn't accomodate all the play type and why the the virtual world players had to be burned at the stake to satisfy the action players?

I disagree they needed to force everyone into a character class to make things 'less confusing'. Resulting in the 'Lando' class being unable to participate in any combat content.

If action types dont want to be dependant on crafters then they should be able to obtain npc/loot items but accept a lower quality than player crafted. Forcing crafters into the 'Lando' role and then maginalizing the crafters role is just a bait and switch (just like trials of obiwan followed by removal of the CH class was).

I dont really have an opinion on the Jedi thing actually. I was never going to be in a position to devote enough skill points to force stuff to be a Jedi so it was never going to be an issue for me. I did the village because it was content to do and opened up some crafting related force stuff and a friend who did make Jedi got killed by BH gank squads at star ports alot (probably tracked down by BH droids sold by me ironically). But seeing all the Jedi's post-NGE was just looked stupid.

The over-the-shoulder camera and increased graphics speed was just shit though!

I did always hope they would one day do a 'classic' server (a bit like EQ) but thats obviously not going to happen now.

[WindupAtheist]

Incidentally...

Fact is, if EA or LA decide they want SWGemu dead, it will be dead.  Either via bleeding them out of time and money or judgement in their favor.  The rest is internet herf-blerf.

If they really gave a crap they'd work on the project quietly and distribute it to the far corners of the earth. Even if EA remembered that they own UO and went full Nazi about it tomorrow, they couldn't shut down all the freeshards operating around the world. No more than Blizzard can shut down the scads of emulated servers despite their efforts.

[Xanthippe]

The biggest thing I never understood was why SWG couldn't accomodate all the play type and why the the virtual world players had to be burned at the stake to satisfy the action players?

I have a similar question.  Were those unhappy with the pre-NGE state of the game happy with the post-NGE state of the game?

[Ingmar]

The biggest thing I never understood was why SWG couldn't accomodate all the play type and why the the virtual world players had to be burned at the stake to satisfy the action players?

I have a similar question.  Were those unhappy with the pre-NGE state of the game happy with the post-NGE state of the game?

My understanding was all the players who would have been happy with post-NGE SWG had already left, so they were changing it out from under the people that actually liked the current design. Kind of a "if it had been like this from the beginning it would have been better" kind of thing, but they made the change so late in the game's life that it only pissed off the remaining base.

[Morat20]

My understanding was all the players who would have been happy with post-NGE SWG had already left, so they were changing it out from under the people that actually liked the current design. Kind of a "if it had been like this from the beginning it would have been better" kind of thing, but they made the change so late in the game's life that it only pissed off the remaining base.

I would also add: "Probably not" since that sort of fundamental engine design in a mature product generally doesn't work well. They might have been happier with the NGE (those that had left previously because they didn't like SimBeru) but wouldn't have stayed, because it just didn't work as well as other games that were designed with it from the ground up.

[WindupAtheist]

How can you take this game away from us? You do know you are making a mistake ! TOR isnt the game people are thinking its gona be and after the play it and realize it they wil be begging to play SWG again. People ! IN TOR you cant go all over the planets like you can here in SWG. YOu cant fly ( Basically ) anywhere you want to in TOR. like yiou can here in SWG.  My heart has been broken.  I may as well stop playing swg no. I will never play another lucas arts game or hjave anything to do with SOE in any way shape form or fashion. This should be a crime!

[Reg]

I can see Peaches writing something like that when they finally shut down UO. 

[WindupAtheist]

Probably. I think when it happens I'll most enjoy the people trying to claim that it's all because they nerfed PK 15 years ago or however long the game lasts. But really I think the knowledge that there are a million freeshards and any dipshit with a PC can make their own will mitigate the insanity a bit.

[Der Helm]

How can you take this game away from us? You do know you are making a mistake ! TOR isnt the game people are thinking its gona be and after the play it and realize it they wil be begging to play SWG again. People ! IN TOR you cant go all over the planets like you can here in SWG. YOu cant fly ( Basically ) anywhere you want to in TOR. like yiou can here in SWG.  My heart has been broken.  I may as well stop playing swg no. I will never play another lucas arts game or hjave anything to do with SOE in any way shape form or fashion. This should be a crime!

I look forward to 3 or 4 things everyday Coming home from work , seeing my son and playing SWG.

That thread is awesome. 

[Merusk]

People with shitty lives and so become heavily invested in a virtual life that then goes to shit freak out. Not new.

There's movie potential there, though.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462246/

[UnSub]

This was my favourite:

You should be proud of the pre cu game Raph. There was no game like it and probably never will be since everyone is chasing wow’s sub base with crappy wow clone after clone. When will these companies get it through their head it wasn’t wow the game that made it popular, it was a faithful blizzard following made up of diablo, starcraft and warcraft fans. Couple that with the fact that Blizzard used subliminal audio tracks and hypnotic use of colours to brain wash players into a zombified state, thats how you retain 10 million subscribers.. Theres no other reason for it.. WoW as a game sucked pretty bad, and if you follow the corporate food chain up to the top of who's running blizzard you find someone deeply rooted in Illuminati beliefs and practice. Think I'm joking? Go do your home work..

[Malakili]

This was my favourite:

You should be proud of the pre cu game Raph. There was no game like it and probably never will be since everyone is chasing wow’s sub base with crappy wow clone after clone. When will these companies get it through their head it wasn’t wow the game that made it popular, it was a faithful blizzard following made up of diablo, starcraft and warcraft fans. Couple that with the fact that Blizzard used subliminal audio tracks and hypnotic use of colours to brain wash players into a zombified state, thats how you retain 10 million subscribers.. Theres no other reason for it.. WoW as a game sucked pretty bad, and if you follow the corporate food chain up to the top of who's running blizzard you find someone deeply rooted in Illuminati beliefs and practice. Think I'm joking? Go do your home work..

Thats historic.

[DayDream]

I wanna say that's got a 50/50 chance of being a troll.  That might be too generous though.

[Soln]

well, I liked SWG.  I got sucked into trying to figure out the FS Slot.  It was a great and unintentional mystery.  PvP was "fun"... in a hair pulling way.  But really the crafting, social stuff (so many emotes and animations) and the opportunity to build (businesses, player cities, player faction forts, player homes with sometimes incredible designs) was unsurpassed.

The SWGEmu is going well but needs more coders.  I hope they finish.  SWG should live on in a pre-CU state.  

Edit: I should add for honesty -- I spent too long and too often dealing with a lot of broken stuff in SWG.  

[Paelos]

This was my favourite:

You should be proud of the pre cu game Raph. There was no game like it and probably never will be since everyone is chasing wow’s sub base with crappy wow clone after clone. When will these companies get it through their head it wasn’t wow the game that made it popular, it was a faithful blizzard following made up of diablo, starcraft and warcraft fans. Couple that with the fact that Blizzard used subliminal audio tracks and hypnotic use of colours to brain wash players into a zombified state, thats how you retain 10 million subscribers.. Theres no other reason for it.. WoW as a game sucked pretty bad, and if you follow the corporate food chain up to the top of who's running blizzard you find someone deeply rooted in Illuminati beliefs and practice. Think I'm joking? Go do your home work..

Thats historic.

I'm jealous I didn't think of making that kind of insane rant first. It seems so obvious now.

[Sjofn]

What I liked was the ambush. I was just reading it, thinking to myself "blah blah, typical po- holy shit, it just got awesome!"

[Tale]

The biggest thing I never understood was why SWG couldn't accomodate all the play type and why the the virtual world players had to be burned at the stake to satisfy the action players?

I have a similar question.  Were those unhappy with the pre-NGE state of the game happy with the post-NGE state of the game?

My understanding was all the players who would have been happy with post-NGE SWG had already left, so they were changing it out from under the people that actually liked the current design. Kind of a "if it had been like this from the beginning it would have been better" kind of thing, but they made the change so late in the game's life that it only pissed off the remaining base.

The NGE could not be played. They broke the game. It consisted of a cool Star Warsy tutorial that spat you out into an unfinished total game redesign, implemented on a whim from a test project, that was still missing core systems.

Also, the sequence of events went: design expansion pack, sell pre-orders, then suddenly decide to replace all gameplay mechanisms with broken new stuff, just before the expansion launched, breaking both the existing game and the expansion, while keeping people's money.

The NGE was a do-over of the Combat Upgrade (CU), a revamp of similar scale that had occurred a few months earlier, which had effectively deleted most crafting output and rendered in-game achievements to that point irrelevant. These were again erased en masse (with no warning) for the NGE.

So it was a non-functional revamp of a revamp, with a clear fuck you to anyone who had played to that point. It's hard to see a "better" for anyone in that, action-oriented player or not!

[Mazakiel]

What I liked was the ambush. I was just reading it, thinking to myself "blah blah, typical po- holy shit, it just got awesome!"

All it needs is a chalkboard to show the connections.