NFL 2011

[01101010]

Being a winner can put you into "great".  Roethlisberger is a winner.

Explain to me again how Dilfer has SB ring again? 

You can hate Big Ben for his off the field shenanigans and even let it bias you. I hate the Stillers and Big Ben right along with them, but I have seen the man play more times than I care to since the games here are more celebrated than church on Sundays and ALWAYS on a local TV channel... and he finds time behind that shower curtain of an O-Line. Whether that being a scramble or just being too big to bring down before he gets a pass off, he has instinct and plays from that. Manning and Brady orchestrate the field while Big Ben manages the deli counter at lunch time.

[Paelos]

I notice how almost every detractor of Big Ben doesn't bother to evaluate his performences, but actually finds a way to BLAME his success on some other factor.

Oh and that they hate him personally.

[ghost]

The Ravens could have had a corpse playing QB that year with that defense. 

[Nebu]

The Ravens could have had a corpse playing QB that year with that defense.  

See also: the 1985 Chicago Bears

I think that Worthlessberger is similar to Bradshaw.  He's a decent QB that greatly benefits from having a strong defense to bail him out from time to time.

[ghost]

It's very difficult to ascertain how good a quality quarterback really is if they are on a good team unless something like the Manning issue occurs.  I would take Roethlisberger on my team over any number of guys in the league right now, even Manning due to age. 

[HaemishM]

If you look at my list, I'd take the Rapistberger over 33 other QB's in the league.

[ghost]

It's asking a lot to look back at a previous page, but yeah, that's a good list.  I agree with all of it.  I'd take Rapey McRaperson over the other two guys you've got him grouped with though, and probably over Rivers.

[HaemishM]

I hesitated with Hasselback, because you know he's going to get injured this year. When he's ON, he can almost carry a team, but he's getting to the end of a good career and he can't run for shit (something Big Ben can do). Yet he still got that shitty Seattle team to the playoffs last year and was instrumental in getting them a playoff win. If Schaub had a complete team with him, he'd possibly be elite status, IMO. He's put up great numbers with bad teams, and really only 1 weapon (Andre Johnson) in the passing game, though Foster is starting to be a beast receiver as well.

[Sjofn]

Explain to me again how Dilfer has SB ring again? 

 

[Draegan]

Regarding Tim Tebow: http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2011/10/the-inner-torment-of-john-fox.html

[Sjofn]

Go back to Gainesville and manufacture human misery that we can laugh at from afar. That’s what Florida is for, why we even keep it around.

 

I knew there had to be SOME reason!

[HaemishM]

That was goddamn brilliant.

[Cyrrex]

Oh man that was hilarious.

Look, nobody is saying Rapistburgers is anything less than a very good QB.  Maybe great.  He'll probably even make it into the Hall of Fame, where a couple of those on the elite list may not.  But for my money, I will take each of those guys Haemish put ahead of him.  That's what it boils down to, and it has nothing to do with the fact that I hate him with the scorching fury of 10 suns.

[JWIV]

The goddamn comments section is even gold. 

[HaemishM]

That's some Haemish-grade level of hate there.

See, I don't hate Tim Tebow. I hate the media's fascination with him, as well as people in my general area who are SEC fans who thought he could do no wrong. There is nothing in his previous work that makes me think he can be an NFL QB. That doesn't make him a bad person, it just means that the Broncos organization is going to waste a lot of money for nothing, and their fans are going to be pinning their hopes on another Vince Young. Good luck with that.

[ghost]

I actually kind of like Tebow.  He's going to be a shitty NFL quarterback, but it's not like he's an asshole like some of the other guys you see.  He's just a little bit of a religious nutcase, which I guess is okay.  Plus it will be great to watch the fail happen, if it does and if he turns out okay then so be it. 

[Nebu]

I think the hate comes out of envy/jealousy.  It all reminds me of Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite.  The haters are the guys that wish they could go back in time and be the stars of their high school team.  They'd show everyone that they're better than Tebow. 

I also wanted to say something about Tony Mandarich from the previous page.  The guy may have been a bust, but I don't think he was as bad a draft pick as people think.  I played against the guy in college and he was a monster.  He was the only lineman that ever struck fear into a defense.  The guy was 305 lbs and could outrun most linebackers (like a 4.6s 40y).  As a pulling guard, that's some scary stuff.  I understand why GB took him ahead of Barry as well.  Barry was undersized for the NFL at the time (remember Earl Campbell and Christian Akoye?) and was a huge risk to be successful at that level. 

[Paelos]

I think the hate comes out of envy/jealousy.

Maybe for some. For Georgia fans, the hate is simple.

[MuffinMan]

I played against the guy in college and he was a monster.

I think I found your team picture.

[HaemishM]

I think the hate comes out of envy/jealousy.  

You are wrong.

EDIT: To clarify, I think the hate comes because he got SO MUCH ATTENTION, ignoring the fact that he was on a good team built around him. He's ballsy, he's fearless when he plays, but as a QB, he's not particularly skilled. There were tons of better players than him that got drafted behind him.

[Mortriden]

I think the hate comes out of envy/jealousy.  

You are wrong.

EDIT: To clarify, I think the hate comes because he got SO MUCH ATTENTION, ignoring the fact that he was on a good team built around him. He's ballsy, he's fearless when he plays, but as a QB, he's not particularly skilled. There were tons of better players than him that got drafted behind him.

I will grant you that the media slobs him a disproportionate amount (like, and incredible amount), but you cannot deny his work ethic or his drive.  The man wants to play, he does everything he can to be a leader on the field.  Now, it may not be the type of leader that we want to see or are used to seeing, but it looks like he's having some success in that aspect. 

[Fordel]

I managed to live under a rock and somehow miss all the Tebow hype/drama/hate or whatever.


It'll sort itself out really, does he win games or not? That's ALL that really matters in the end when it comes to football. If he's as bad as people say he is, then he'll be on the curb before the season is over. If he manages to win games through sheer force of will and Jesus power, then he'll stay.


So far he beat the Dolphins, and only barely. That's hardly a barometer of success 

Who do they play next?

[Nebu]

EDIT: To clarify, I think the hate comes because he got SO MUCH ATTENTION, ignoring the fact that he was on a good team built around him. He's ballsy, he's fearless when he plays, but as a QB, he's not particularly skilled. There were tons of better players than him that got drafted behind him.

I see your point, but the guy is in the NFL.  Someone was willing to wager $millions on the fact that he has at least some talent for the position.  Someone that knows a hell of a lot more about the football industrial complex than I do.  Hell, even if he doesn't have the ability, the guy is a good marketing tool.  Love Tebow or hate him, the guy generates press for your team.  

I also like the guy's work ethic.  Perhaps he's on the growth/learning curve and scouts see this as worth a gamble?  I don't know. I also don't know why anyone would hate him.  Hate the media hype, sure.  Hate Tebow?  I don't get it.  He's a hard working and seemingly earnest guy.

As for the pic, I'm the fourth from the right.   

[naum]

It'll sort itself out really, does he win games or not? That's ALL that really matters in the end when it comes to football. If he's as bad as people say he is, then he'll be on the curb before the season is over. If he manages to win games through sheer force of will and Jesus power, then he'll stay.

That is the ultimate barometer of a QB -- does he win games for his team?

Tebow mechanics and hoopla decried, but he won games in college. I don't know if that will translate to professional career success but we will soon find out.

I'd compare Tebow with Vince Young, much lamented, for different reasons and a good bit self inflicted. But Vince Young wins games, even in the pro ranks -- where even though his stats are not impressive (his career TD:INT ratio is 42/43, though if you toss in the 12 rushing TD, it doesn't look as bad), he's 30-18 as a starter.

[HaemishM]

At least with Tebow, you know he won't throw a tantrum like Vince Young did, so if he wins games, great.

As for the idiot that wanted to waste millions on him, I'd blame Josh McDaniels for that. He's currently trying to find a way to end Sam Bradford's career early.

[Paelos]

I see your point, but the guy is in the NFL.  Someone was willing to wager $millions on the fact that he has at least some talent for the position.  Someone that knows a hell of a lot more about the football industrial complex than I do.

That someone was Josh McDaniels. Hired at 33 years old to be the youngest head coach in the NFL and made a big push to make Timmy T their #1 draft pick. He immediately started off his tenure by fucking up relations with Cutler by leaking trade rumors, pissing off the QB, and summarily having to trade him (with the entire league knowing he was desperate) for Orton. As you've seen recently, Orton sucks so hard he had to be replaced by Tebow, while Cutler manages to survive on a team with the worst offensive line in the history of football. The fact that the Bears are 4-3 is almost uncanny.

But it went deeper than that for McDaniels. He didn't get along with Brandon Marshall, the pro-bowler wide receiver. So, instead of playing him with the playoff berth on the line in 2009, he benched Marshall to assert his authority against the Chiefs. Denver of course lost the game without one of their biggest weapons, and missed the playoffs. Marshall ended up getting send to Miami as punishment in a trade for a bag of chips. But did it stop there? Nooooooo, as a member of the Patriots he picked up Belicheats penchant for video-taping the other team illegally, and McDaniels was fined in 2010 $50,000 by the NFL for taping the SF practice before a game.

The 3-9 record he posted in 2010, and his shitty waste of a pick on Tebow, ultimately got him fired when he lost to KC again. Since that time he was picked up by the St. Louis Rams to be their offensive coordinator, and has led that teams offense to the lowest points per game totals of any team in the NFL with 9.3 PPG. Not since the glory days of the 1992 Seahawks has any team in the NFL averaged less than 10 PPG. So, I ask you, did this man know more of the NFL than you or us? I would submit that, no, in fact he has been an epic fucking disaster every single place he has any actual decision making authority.

[Ingmar]

I think the hate comes out of envy/jealousy. 

Yeah, no. My problem with the whole thing is that I hate seeing an organization bow to public pressure when said pressure is based on people wanting him to play not because he's good, but because of his beliefs.

Also if someone on my team at work was constantly doing the Jesus thing at me like that guy does, I would fucking hate working with him. I have to assume that's true for at least a segment of the other players.

[Nebu]

Also if someone on my team at work was constantly doing the Jesus thing at me like that guy does, I would fucking hate working with him. I have to assume that's true for at least a segment of the other players.

Pay me $10 million to do what I love and I'll play for BYU.  Like any business, you put up with what you have to in order to make a paycheck. 

I do see your point though.  Perhaps I was a little narrow minded in my statement about 'teh hate'.

[ghost]

Yeah, no. My problem with the whole thing is that I hate seeing an organization bow to public pressure when said pressure is based on people wanting him to play not because he's good, but because of his beliefs.

Also if someone on my team at work was constantly doing the Jesus thing at me like that guy does, I would fucking hate working with him. I have to assume that's true for at least a segment of the other players.

So that makes you hate Tebow?  Again, I guess I don't get all the hatred.  He plays hard and works hard.  If the team opts to play him that's not his fault.

[01101010]

When you wear your religious beliefs on your chest, well that is one sure fire way to make me dislike you greatly. Those that do, do it with intent to send out a message to everyone they encounter, passively or aggressively. And yes, that biases my attitude toward him as a player and yes that makes me a shitheel but I am ok with that.

[ghost]

Hey man, I hate hyper-religious people as much as the next guy but I don't let it cloud my vision about sports.   

[Chimpy]

He is:
A) not as good of a player as the hype machine has led everyone to believe.

and

B) using his position as a bully-pulpit to push his religious beliefs on other people in a way no other sports figure does.


I can overlook A, there are a lot of players that way. But I refuse to overlook B.

[Ingmar]

Yeah, no. My problem with the whole thing is that I hate seeing an organization bow to public pressure when said pressure is based on people wanting him to play not because he's good, but because of his beliefs.

Also if someone on my team at work was constantly doing the Jesus thing at me like that guy does, I would fucking hate working with him. I have to assume that's true for at least a segment of the other players.

So that makes you hate Tebow?  Again, I guess I don't get all the hatred.  He plays hard and works hard.  If the team opts to play him that's not his fault.

Hate is a strong word, I'd say not really. I don't like the guy and I don't like the way the team caved on playing him. If he was playing for my team I'd probably hate him, at least in the SPORTS HATE sense.

[Draegan]

I don't hate Tebow the man, even though he's a crazy jesus virgin or something.  Each to their own.

However I the story of Tim Tebow the NFL QB, and his mom's commercial.

Fuck all that jesus shit in my face.

While he's a great athlete that has the drive to play, he sucks as a QB.  SUCKS.

It's the media and the story that surrounds him that I loathe.  Why does he get all the excuses and the hand holding when he obviously sucks?

Here's what the Footballguys said about him:

I've said it since last year - I love Tim Tebow. Mostly because I love to see how he makes generally sensible fans and analysts completely lose their minds. We haven't seen this kind of blind, white hot passion with no basis for reason talk since Mike Vick was released from prison.

On one hand, you have the analysts that love to start the segment with, “Let’s be clear, in no way, shape or form do I want to diminish Tim Tebow and the fact that the Broncos won Sunday...” And then the guy goes on for ten minutes doing everything he can to diminish Tim Tebow and the Broncos win...

Dude. Get over yourself - we're not stupid. Just say what you mean. Don't try to sugarcoat it.

And then on the other side are the "Tebow can do no wrong and he's headed straight to Canton if you guys would just recognize his awesomeness" folks who are just as irrational.

The truth is that Tim Tebow Sunday gave the perfect Tebow performance. Denny Green would have loved it as he was who we thought he was. For 55 minutes, he was horribly inaccurate and looked overwhelmed. And when the game was on the line, he appeared to will his team to victory with great play (plus the benefit of a nice onside kick).

Where do I see it? I see a guy that will get better coupled with a guy that has an innate ability to lead his football team. He has the "it" factor that drives some fans and analysts crazy as it doesn't "compute" in their framework for evaluating players. I think he'll succeed at this level. In a best case scenario, he has the upside potential of becoming the QB version of Wes Welker. A guy that takes good but not great physicals and outworks the competition playing to his strengths and realizing where he fits in the system. Will he do that? I don't know. We'll see. All I know for sure is I'll continue to have fun watching most fans and analysts hyperventilate over him.

I agree with this mostly, except I hate the media circus around it and would rather get to other topics of discussion.

I also disagree with that it's all envy etc.

[ghost]

I guess I haven't seen a lot of the bully pulpit behavior, but then again I don't watch a lot of TV so I probably wouldn't see it.  I just watch the games and that's about it.