NFL 2011

[Merusk]

Glad to see the old Browns are back! WHOO HOOO!!

It seemed like they were in it till the end.

That would be why they're the old Browns.  Look like they're winning right up until they don't.   I remember the heartache well from the high school days.  There's a reason they were called the cardiac kids.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7118158/oakland-raiders-verge-getting-carson-palmer-cincinnati-bengals-sources-say

Palmer to Oakland... I strangely want to see the Silver and Black with the Lombardi this year now...

There was much laughter around the office over this earlier today.  It's a great trade for Cinci since he wasn't ever going to play here again. There was also still some question about his thumb and accuracy after last season.  However, I expect like Kitna he'll do ok once he's away from Mikey B.

[ghost]

Palmer's ability has been greatly overrated. 

[Nevermore]

I'ts unlikely he's worth the two #1s Cincy is reportedly getting for him.

[Trippy]

Palmer's ability has been greatly overrated.  

It wasn't overrated before he got his injuries. Now the Raiders are praying he's the second coming of Jim Plunkett and can resurrect his career by reuniting him with a coach he worked with during his best years in Cincinnati.

[ghost]

It wasn't overrated before he got his injuries. Now the Raiders are praying he's the second coming of Jim Plunkett and can resurrect his career by reuniting him with a coach he worked with during his best years in Cincinnati.

Overrated before his injuries really doesn't mean much when you are trading 2 first rounders for a guy.  He's been very average for all of his career except for his second year when he was stellar. 

[HaemishM]

Miami is a total dumpster fire. They walk out on every field they play on with a gas can and oily rags.

They need to blow up everything, starting with the dumbass GM who thought this collection of chuckleheads might win in the NFL.

The Dolphins were 7 - 9 last year and had a decent defense. If they didn't suck so much playing at home they might have had a winning record as they were amazing on the road (6 - 1). It wasn't entirely unreasonable to have expected them to improve even if only slightly over last year.

It was when you shitcan your entire offensive system of run first and install some weirdo pass first system, getting rid of two of your best players in the process. Oh and putting it all on a QB with barely one season of starts under his belt, who most folks don't feel is even qualified to start in the NFL on a GOOD team. The GM either had that idea or didn't slap the shit out of the coach who had the idea, and both deserved to be fired for it. Reggie Bush an every down back? Chad Henne a pass-heavy starter? These are things any jackoff who's watched the NFL for the last two years know are stupid, yet these twats got paid big money to do these things. At least the Colts have an excuse for their suckiness. They've been so reliant on a Hall of Fame QB they didn't realize the team around him was middle of the road at best.

EDIT: Two first-rounders is steep, but let's face it, it will instantly improve the Raiders. Even at his worst, Palmer is an upgrade over Jason Campbell. And if your other option is Kyle Boller or Terrelle Pryor, fuck it, Palmer is HOF caliber.

[ghost]

Palmer obviously has a lot of potential.  It's a risky move, but one that could pay off in spades for them.

[WayAbvPar]

He is still young enough to help them for several years. I don't think he is HoF material, but he is a solid starting QB, and a giant upgrade over Campbell and the collection of sewage that was backing Campbell up. Raiders are a running and defense team, so all they really need from Palmer is for him to not actively fuck things up and hit an occasional open receiver. That snapping sound you heard was Norv Turner's sphincter- San Diego can't like this trade AT ALL.

[naum]

I'ts unlikely he's worth the two #1s Cincy is reportedly getting for him.

An insane price, and a coup of a trade for the Bengals.

Carson Palmer has had 2 great seasons in his career, and one of them was at USC.

[Paelos]

I'ts unlikely he's worth the two #1s Cincy is reportedly getting for him.

An insane price, and a coup of a trade for the Bengals.

Carson Palmer has had 2 great seasons in his career, and one of them was at USC.

Oakland already has the best running game in the AFC. Adding Palmer takes them from one-dimensional to a play-action threat with Moore and Heyward-Bey. They need more offense, because they defense is just slightly above comatose.

[Ingmar]

They gave up way too much.

[Paelos]

They gave up way too much.

If they can win the division, that first round pick isn't that great.

[Draegan]

Wasn't the trade a 1st and a 2nd with a condition to be a 1st?  I wonder what the condition is.  (Did not click on link)

[Rasix]

Palmer's performance.

I think this is a dumb trade, but whatever.  Good chance the Raiders would completely blow the pick anyways.  

edit: Trippy's right.

[Trippy]

Wasn't the trade a 1st and a 2nd with a condition to be a 1st?  I wonder what the condition is.  (Did not click on link)

Playoff win.

[Ingmar]

They gave up way too much.

If they can win the division, that first round pick isn't that great.

Raiders are already missing a lot of picks, 2 early picks for a broken down old QB? They are seriously mortgaging the future here for a guy who I suspect won't end up being any better than freely available guys like David Garrard.

[Trippy]

Who is having back surgery.

[ghost]

You guys are forgetting that this is the Bengals.  They could fuck up a wet dream.

Also, I bet that Palmer blows his ACL in the first game.   

[Trippy]

You guys are forgetting that this is the Bengals.  They could fuck up a wet dream.

True though their last two first round picks -- AJ Green and Jermaine Gresham -- are doing fine so far.

[HaemishM]

Cincy gets a goddamn king's ransom for a guy they weren't playing anyway, AND they get rid of a huge salary cap hit and a contract they didn't think they could trade. The Raiders are getting RAPED on the deal, whether they have to give up a 2nd rounder or a 1st for that 2nd pick. BUT... Palmer is a cut above anyone available otherwise. Garrard is having back surgery, so is likely to be on no one's roster this year. Is there anyone else out there available with as many NFL starts and wins as Palmer? Other than him, you'd looking at trying to trade for a backup like Kitna, or some scrub like Josh McCown or Donovan McNabb.  Like I said, he's a serious upgrade to their backups and the guy they just lost for the season, and is better than any other available option I can think of. When you're desperate, you have to give up more than you'd like. Palmer's probably worth a 3rd rounder at best, but beggar's can't be choosers and Mike Brown has shown he had no interest in trading Palmer for fair value.

Frankly, I'd have rather seen Palmer sit the whole year just so Mike Brown would have to pay him for bupkiss, but I hate Mike Brown like that.

[WayAbvPar]

Also- David Garrard has never been anything even resembling mediocre. He is terrible.

[Ingmar]

I didn't know about the back surgery, so yeah. The 'free' part is important though.

[Paelos]

It's the AFC West, as well. Palmer can dominate out there if the defense can hold teams to under 21 points. I looked at their schedule. They can go 9-7 just by showing up against some of those pitiful teams.

[HaemishM]

Also- David Garrard has never been anything even resembling mediocre. He is terrible.

I disagree. If you look at his numbers, he's actually very accurate. His best year, he threw like 21 TD to 6 INT's and the Jags got to the playoffs. He's not a great QB by any stretch of the imagination, and he can't carry a team. But he can get a team with a decent running game to the playoffs. He may not win many games on his own, but he won't lose many by throwing a shitload of picks. And again, he'd be a huge upgrade over Kyle 56% completion percentage Boller.

[Ingmar]

It's the AFC West, as well. Palmer can dominate out there if the defense can hold teams to under 21 points. I looked at their schedule. They can go 9-7 just by showing up against some of those pitiful teams.

If they don't get to a Super Bowl in the next 2 years the trade was a waste. Palmer is aging, they mortgaged their future even more than it already was, etc.

[Trippy]

The more important question is will the Raiders bring in Terrell Owens* for Palmer to throw to?

* oddly enough TJ Houshmandzadeh is available too and Palmer has been working out with both of them

[Cyrrex]

The price is steep, and I can't help but want to mock it...but I can't really, because I was sorta hoping that Seattle would make a move for him.  I mean, we've got Tavaris Jackson.  It would be worth giving up a 1st round pick just to remove his stench.

So, picks schmicks.  I think it was good for the Raiders.

[Merusk]

Sentiment here this morning continues to be "ha, poor Raiders."  and "Mike Brown still manages to fall in shit and come out smelling like a rose."

Palmer doesn't leave behind any love in the town.  Most folks seem to have just made-up total fantasy worlds around him.  The last call I heard on the radio was noting his QB rating after his knee injury was 30, his completion % has been poor and he can't move anymore.   Quite a contrast from the stats I saw quoted in the Boston Globe when I googled.

Over the past two years, Palmer completed 61.2 percent of his passes for 7,064 yards, 47 touchdowns, 33 interceptions and a passer rating of 82.9.

He HAS been intercepted a bunch (something like 53 in the last 52 games) so accuracy might be an issue.  There had been rumors he was butting-heads with the 'stars' like TO and 85, though.  He got along well with Housh by all accounts, though.

Snarkiest comment has been, "It's nice to have Dalton in there because we're seeing passes longer than 8yds when we need 10."

[Paelos]

I really think people have a bizzarro view of what Palmer is as well. I believe he's walking into an ideal situation in Oakland. Cincy is THE clusterfuck organization of the NFL. Now that Al is dead and buried, Oakland has a chance at being good again in a division that frankly sucks. As much as people like to say that it's a passing league, if you don't have a running game at all, you get eaten alive by opposing defenses when they don't respect the playaction or delayed handoff.

[ghost]

Cincinnatti usually drafts pretty well.  I'm not sure the Raiders have as much success, and they will always be stung by the Jamarcus Russel pick.  I say it's a win-win at this point.  Draft picks in the NFL can be pretty dicey.  I would definitely take the known commodity in the NFL.

[Nebu]

Cincinnatti usually drafts pretty well.  I'm not sure the Raiders have as much success, and they will always be stung by the Jamarcus Russel pick.  I say it's a win-win at this point.  Draft picks in the NFL can be pretty dicey.  I would definitely take the known commodity in the NFL.

I would not take a 31 year old Carson Palmer for 1 (and maybe 2) first round pick(s).  Ever. 

[HaemishM]

Palmer being able to playaction to Darren McFadden, with speedy wideouts on the edges? He ought to be able to THRIVE in that. And the Oakland offensive line is decent - they've only given up 7 sacks all season, tied for fewest sacks in the league with Buffalo and Tennessee. He's a career 62% completion percentage QB with avg. per pass of 7.1 (not great, not bad). I think he instantly makes that team a playoff team, and they will challenge a possibly soft San Diego team for that division. KC and Denver better get into rebuilding mode.

[Paelos]

Cincinnatti usually drafts pretty well.  I'm not sure the Raiders have as much success, and they will always be stung by the Jamarcus Russel pick.  I say it's a win-win at this point.  Draft picks in the NFL can be pretty dicey.  I would definitely take the known commodity in the NFL.

I would not take a 31 year old Carson Palmer for 1 (and maybe 2) first round pick(s).  Ever. 

The alternative is to take your first chance at a really good season since Rich Gannon left and flush it down the toilet.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, again, I cannot stress enough... KYLE BOLLER.

[JWIV]

Yeah, again, I cannot stress enough... KYLE BOLLER.

Kyle is awesome!  If you like watching someone trip over his own feet at the mere through that he might get hit that is.