Brink

[Sophismata]

So, I decided two days ago that I'd pony up the US$50 for the game when I got home after work. I've been looking for a tight class-based shooter, I like the idea of the SMART system and I liked the developer's other games.

Sadly, Steam is actually charging US$90 for the game. I was hesitant to pay $50, $90 is right out.

[Morfiend]

This game got really boring really quickly. I wish I hadn't spent $50 on it.

[Strazos]

http://www.justin.tv/brandon505/b/285583999?

I imagine he's about done now, but I found that a good stream to watch - good resolution, very good player.

It made me want the game...before I remembered that I'm not supposed to have time for it. 

[Malakili]

This game got really boring really quickly. I wish I hadn't spent $50 on it.

Have you tried switching up your load out?  I find that the game plays significantly differently depending on how you equip yourself, might freshen it up for you.

[Malakili]

In case anyone is interested, I figure I'll write down some thoughts after about 25 hours of play.

1) The maps are actually much more complex than they appear at first.  There are tons of side paths (and upper and lower paths) that you really only start noticing when you really start "thinking with parkour."  I noticed this after unlocking the light body type and looking for ways to take advantage of that.   However, many of that paths I've found don't actually require the extra mobility of the light body type to use, it just helped me to find them in the first place.   So, while the map pool is small, and its one of the things I think is a downside of the game, the 8 maps they do have are actually significantly replayable so far.   

2) I've been assigning points across all the classes and I try to switch as needed by my team.  I've found that even the little-played operative can really be effective in its own way.  The play styles of each of the classes are subtly different, but different none the less, and I think this is another thing that really only starts to shine after you've put time into the game and start to unlock some new abilities and learn the maps better.  Engineer is really solid at area denial, operatives can really delay the enemy well by taking their command posts, and messing with attacks from behind if they manage to get a decent disguise.  Soldiers keep people resupplied and can be soft area denial with their tons of grenades, and medics are a bit more passive because they want to keep their team alive.   In practice everyone has the same guns and similar damage output and health (more dependent on which buffs you have than anything to be honest), but where most shooters seem to define classes by guns, this one uses abilities to separate gameplay, and I think for people who are approaching the game with the mentality of death matching, a lot of that difference is going to be lost.  Which brings me to number 3...

3) I really dislike the character advancement system in principle.  In practice it isn't terrible, but I feel like the game really wants you to be switching classes frequently, but it doesn't let you spec yourself out to be optimal in more than 1 or 2.  I've managed a decent balance with my character, but it kind of feels crappy to start a new character to specialize in something and have nothing unlcoked for it at the beginning.  You aren't drastically underpowered at the beginning and you can still hold your own in a fire fight, but the subtleness I mentioned earlier isn't as available yet.  I don't know if the game would really suffer at all if it gave you all the options/abilities from the beginning and maybe limit you by assigning some at a time, but freely respecing or something (you can respec at the cost of a level as it stands).  Anyway, I feel like this is a weaker part of the game.  Levels don't make you "own newbs" but they do open up a lot of options/breadth to the game, and I feel like they likely lost a lot of players by not making that richness available to people from the beginning.


Basically, I would say that the more I play, the more I like this game.  I feel like there is really a ton of depth that really becomes apparent around the 20 hour mark (arbitrary number just from my own experience).  Making use of the maps lesser used paths, different abilities, and just sort of understanding how the game works really adds a lot to the experience that isn't really obvious right from the beginning.   It feels like the kind of game that is going to have a small but dedicated long term community that is going to be playing it for years, but it just doesn't have the immediate grabbing appeal that it takes (like say, TF2) to grab a wide audience.

I'd still recommend picking this up on Steam sale when it eventually comes up, but I figured I'd just throw some thoughts on paper and post em up here.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

[Amaron]

I have played this a lot more (50 hours now) despite my initial reaction to it.   I still think the lack of other modes (DOM/TDM in particular) was a gross failure.  Taking the game for what it is though it's pretty fun.   It has small flaws though that really stop it from being a classic or whatever.  The game could of been worth it if they didn't confuse everyone with the marketing though.

In the end though it's not going to be worth the $50 bucks to anyone because it's just not popular enough.   Even if you love it you're not going to have many people to play it with soon.  The population is already extremely low.    Just opening the steam server browser and looking at that makes it pretty obvious.

[Malakili]

In the end though it's not going to be worth the $50 bucks to anyone because it's just not popular enough.   Even if you love it you're not going to have many people to play it with soon.  The population is already extremely low.    Just opening the steam server browser and looking at that makes it pretty obvious.

This is something that I worry about as well.  The population is very low.  The game in its current state isn't going to be sustained by the competitive community either I suspect.  The first Brink league already started and I haven't watched any of it, but my understanding is that the game is drastically biased towards defending teams.  This could be addressed in patches I though.  I think when it first goes on a major steam sale we'll see a lot of people come in, but given that like I said in my previous post the game isn't particularly newbie friendly and combined with the fact that the people who do stick around will likely kick the hell out of the newbies due to the learning curve and its going to be hard to get a new population to stick around.  I'm glad I got in on the ground floor, and as long as the game has enough players to populate some servers during prime time I am likely to keep playing it, but it seems there isn't a ton of reasons to buy this, especially at full price.

[Morfiend]

I realized that I would rather be playing TF2 if I wanted a team based shooter. And promptly uninstalled Brink. I will chalk this up to falling prey to marketing and hype.

[Amaron]

The real tragedy here is that SMART might be called a failed experiment by the industry.

[Malakili]

The real tragedy here is that SMART might be called a failed experiment by the industry.

Yea, its really a feature that could be widely applicable in the genre.  Even if the wall jumps and more dramatic parkour are a little too much for most games, the vaulting over railings, tables, etc could be applied to any number of settings, and playing shooters without it it definitely feels like i SHOULD be able to move over those things.

[Samwise]

Yea, its really a feature that could be widely applicable in the genre.  Even if the wall jumps and more dramatic parkour are a little too much for most games, the vaulting over railings, tables, etc could be applied to any number of settings, and playing shooters without it it definitely feels like i SHOULD be able to move over those things.

I was playing a little Prototype the other day and the sort of automatic parkour that goes on in that game (I assume Brink is similar) impressed me.  It doesn't really make a huge difference to gameplay (you could just as easily not have the obstacles there, or make them non-clipping, etc), but it makes the world FEEL a lot more dynamic.

[jakonovski]

The DLC sounds fairly meaty.

http://bethblog.com/index.php/2011/05/27/brink-dlc-details-and-stats-site-update/

[Malakili]

The DLC sounds fairly meaty.

http://bethblog.com/index.php/2011/05/27/brink-dlc-details-and-stats-site-update/

Hmm, seems awful early to be adding all that.  The game has barely had time to flesh out in terms of the current weapon and ability balance, and now they are going to throw a bunch more into the ring.  I think they said the first one is going to be free though, so I'm not going to be too critical until they start charging me.

[jakonovski]

I think they're just trying to make good the horrible launch.

[Hawkbit]

Seeing that map really makes me want this game even though I'm terrible at shooters.  I love the idea of a constant fight over territory.

[Malakili]

Seeing that map really makes me want this game even though I'm terrible at shooters.  I love the idea of a constant fight over territory.

Its just for show, don't buy the game for that reason, unless they are changing something drastically that I don't understand and adding some kind of meta game.  It seems like it is just showing which team has won more games on which maps - just stats.  You don't choose a side and stick with it, you get assigned one when you join the game.  That map isn't anything different than saying the Terrorists "own" de_dust because they won more games on it this week.

[Kail]

Seeing that map really makes me want this game even though I'm terrible at shooters.  I love the idea of a constant fight over territory.

Its just for show, don't buy the game for that reason, unless they are changing something drastically that I don't understand and adding some kind of meta game.  It seems like it is just showing which team has won more games on which maps - just stats.  You don't choose a side and stick with it, you get assigned one when you join the game.  That map isn't anything different than saying the Terrorists "own" de_dust because they won more games on it this week.

I kinda hope not.  Would be nice if their matchmaker could drop you into games for the appropriate faction.  Otherwise, yeah, this feature seems kind of useless.  "Shockingly, this week Security maintains control of Tower and Reactor, and the Rebellion keeps Container City and Shipyard."

Otherwise, though, this seems like it has everything I'm looking for.  If they can keep this kind of content coming at a decent pace, I'm never going to be able to put this game down.

[Mrbloodworth]

Quite sure you choose your side in your toon screen, with possible exception of freeplay. I also believe that DLC will be free for current users.

[Malakili]

Quite sure you choose your side in your toon screen, with possible exception of freeplay. I also believe that DLC will be free for current users.

Yeah thats true, I've only really played free play though, which is maybe why its confusing to me.  I've done the challenges to get the unlocks but otherwise I haven't touched single player or the match making system.

[Malakili]

Got to level 20 on my first character today (max level).  The top level skills are fairly mediocre from what I can tell.  They seem to have the ability to be awesome 1% of the time, but suck 99% of the time.  I guess I see a lot of people will downed fire, but I don't think its worth it.

Anyway, I think the game would be just as good with no leveling at all.  Give me the ability list and let me just customize my character.  No need to throw experience points at it.   

I think the number one problem here is still the insane bias towards the defenders in pretty much every single map.  I'm hoping their new maps address this.  I'll definitely be sticking around with Brink for a while to see where the game goes, and the matches are still fairly fun, even when the defenders win almost all the time.  Hopefully that can be addressed in future maps though.

[Kail]

Got to level 20 on my first character today (max level).  The top level skills are fairly mediocre from what I can tell.  They seem to have the ability to be awesome 1% of the time, but suck 99% of the time.  I guess I see a lot of people will downed fire, but I don't think its worth it.

Anyway, I think the game would be just as good with no leveling at all.  Give me the ability list and let me just customize my character.  No need to throw experience points at it.   

I think the number one problem here is still the insane bias towards the defenders in pretty much every single map.  I'm hoping their new maps address this.  I'll definitely be sticking around with Brink for a while to see where the game goes, and the matches are still fairly fun, even when the defenders win almost all the time.  Hopefully that can be addressed in future maps though.

I actually like the levelling.  If they removed the leveling for skills, I'd be happier with it, and they could just let us grind for costumes.  The main problem I have with levelling in games, though, is when the levelling is so slow/boring that it becomes a grind, which I didn't find to be a problem in Brink, or when lower level characters can't compete with higher level ones, which I don't think is true here, especially past level five or six.

The rank five abilities, yeah, are kind of situational, but then, a lot of the abilities are situational (or just flat out useless).  Downed fire is useful more than it's harmful for me; I generally get two or three cheap kills with it per map, and it's kind of handy if you get taken down while guarding an objective.  Gatling turret is a bit better all around than a medium turret, if you use turrets much I think it's a solid upgrade, though I know engineers that just stick with the light and do fine.  Lazarus grenade I find helpful not so much because of the whole "oo, I rez the entire team at once" wet dream, but because there are a lot of times when there are two teammates dead next to each other and the Lazarus saves you a supply pip, or there's some issue with the range or targetting on your resurrect skill and it's easier to just lob a grenade over there.  Satchel charges are lethal if you're defending a chokepoint or objective, especially one where they have to be fast in and out (like pouring the fuel in Refuel) but yeah, in general they don't do a whole lot of damage.  EMP charge I agree is kind of unimpressive, but then, operatives in general are kind of useless in this game outside of hacking objectives.

[Malakili]

I positive review of the PC version of Brink
http://tap-repeatedly.com/2011/05/31/brink/

I won’t name and shame other review sites, but I cannot understand where the criticism of Brink stems from. Brink hasn’t had a perfect launch, but to receive the treatment it has is absolutely mystifying. Brink is the finest team based shooter to arrive in years and having sunk hundreds of hours into both Battlefield: Bad Company 2, Team Fortress 2 and Call of Duty (amongst countless others) it easily surpasses them all on almost every level. Its learning curve is steep, and team work is entirely pivotal to your success, but at what stage did we approach team based shooters as solo affairs?

This is more or less how I feel about it.  This game has the *good* property of making me want to play it more, the more I play it.  I think saying it easily surpasses TF2 is probably going a bit too far, at least compared to "vanilla" TF2 (the current monstrosity is a blight on the earth), but I can see myself playing as much Brink as I have any shooter since TF2 easily over the next year or two.  It has a combination of great moments (generally related to awesome parkour), and consistent solid gameplay.

Edit: I've seen more offensive teams winning lately, not 50/50 by any means, but definitely more often.  I'm wondering if this is related to people finally learning the maps properly.

[Strazos]

What's the beef with TF2? Hats make you angry? I don't craft much - mostly trade if anything, and I'm fine with the items I have.

[Malakili]

What's the beef with TF2? Hats make you angry? I don't craft much - mostly trade if anything, and I'm fine with the items I have.

Its actually the new weapons I mind a lot more than the hats themselves.  The hats are at worst mildly annoying, but I played for a long time when hats were in the game. I quit the day the Mann Conomy patch was released and haven't played it since.  I think they took a fairly balanced game and good shooter and just added too much shit for no good reason.  TF2 without a single unlock but with the spy/engineer balance patches would probably be ideal.  I'm a bit bitter about it because I think they took one of the top few multiplayer FPS shooters ever and fucked it up.

[Strazos]

Except for a few items (I'm looking at YOU, piece of garbage cheating Dead Ringer) I don't really see how the balance has been upset.

I play way too much TF2, so I would be interesting in hearing your specific grievances.

[Malakili]

Except for a few items (I'm looking at YOU, piece of garbage cheating Dead Ringer) I don't really see how the balance has been upset.

I play way too much TF2, so I would be interesting in hearing your specific grievances.

I was writing out a longer list but it basically boils down to this - I used to play TF competitively, and I liked that I could get a reasonable facsimile to that style of play in the pubs I frequented even though I no longer have the time to play competitively.  Then the huge influx of weapons basically shattered any chance of replicating the type of gameplay I think TF2 is good at, in favor of casual friendly cluster fucks.  Yeah, I'm an elitist jerk, I don't care.

[Kail]

Edit: I've seen more offensive teams winning lately, not 50/50 by any means, but definitely more often.  I'm wondering if this is related to people finally learning the maps properly.

Stats site is up now, if you're curious.

Separates it by platform, which is interesting.  A lot of the maps are really close percentage-wise (Resort running 49%-51% in favor of Security) but it looks like every map does favor the defense at least a little bit.  The only one where attackers are winning more than 50% is the PS3 version of Reactor, which is at 53% Rebels.

Most unbalanced: Shipyard and Container City, followed by Refuel and Security Tower.

[Strazos]

I was writing out a longer list but it basically boils down to this - I used to play TF competitively, and I liked that I could get a reasonable facsimile to that style of play in the pubs I frequented even though I no longer have the time to play competitively.  Then the huge influx of weapons basically shattered any chance of replicating the type of gameplay I think TF2 is good at, in favor of casual friendly cluster fucks.  Yeah, I'm an elitist jerk, I don't care.

Going on a tangent now, but I fail to see how that's the weapons' fault, unless you mean that it caused an influx of players who were not that good.

[Amaron]

Most unbalanced: Shipyard and Container City, followed by Refuel and Security Tower.

Thing is most servers let you pick your map.   So everyone just tries to pick one where there team has a gross advantage.   I see Shipyard and Container City far more often than others.   It'll be interesting to see the PC stats.   I almost wonder if they held them up because they are even worse.   The PS3 is notably more one sided than the Xbox.

[Malakili]

I was writing out a longer list but it basically boils down to this - I used to play TF competitively, and I liked that I could get a reasonable facsimile to that style of play in the pubs I frequented even though I no longer have the time to play competitively.  Then the huge influx of weapons basically shattered any chance of replicating the type of gameplay I think TF2 is good at, in favor of casual friendly cluster fucks.  Yeah, I'm an elitist jerk, I don't care.

Going on a tangent now, but I fail to see how that's the weapons' fault, unless you mean that it caused an influx of players who were not that good.

As an analogy imagine if I they added 2 new rocket launchers, a modified railgun, another kind of body armor and set bonuses for carrying a particular 3 weapons to Quake 3 (now Quake Live).  It would take what is probably the most elegant, best DM game of all time, and muddle the streamlined gameplay in favor of just piling  "more" on to it.  That is what happened to TF2 in my opinion.  There is just too much going on and it lost that sleek feel it had.

Back to the topic at hand:

As for the stats site is pretty neat and I'm looking forward to the PC version.  Its not QUITE as bad as I thought it would be according to those stats (I was expecting over 70% on some of the maps), so hopefully that is a good sign.  I love a further breakdown of at which stage of the maps the attack stalled out.  There are quite a few stages in which if you make it past one key part you can make it a lot farther with less trouble.

[Azazel]

I positive review of the PC version of Brink
http://tap-repeatedly.com/2011/05/31/brink/

I won’t name and shame other review sites, but I cannot understand where the criticism of Brink stems from. Brink hasn’t had a perfect launch, but to receive the treatment it has is absolutely mystifying. Brink is the finest team based shooter to arrive in years and having sunk hundreds of hours into both Battlefield: Bad Company 2, Team Fortress 2 and Call of Duty (amongst countless others) it easily surpasses them all on almost every level. Its learning curve is steep, and team work is entirely pivotal to your success, but at what stage did we approach team based shooters as solo affairs?

This is more or less how I feel about it.  This game has the *good* property of making me want to play it more, the more I play it.  I think saying it easily surpasses TF2 is probably going a bit too far, at least compared to "vanilla" TF2 (the current monstrosity is a blight on the earth), but I can see myself playing as much Brink as I have any shooter since TF2 easily over the next year or two.  It has a combination of great moments (generally related to awesome parkour), and consistent solid gameplay.

Let's be serious though, that's clearly a review written by either someone who's been rewarded by the Brink people or just someone who has a new favorite shooter and just wuvs it to bits. The green text point to the bits that destroy his credibility. I don't particularly like CoD, but I'm willing to give it props for what it does well. This is just some random on a blog that has a half-dozen contributors. It has as much credibility as my review of CoD:WaW in that it's a review posted on the internet by some guy. So probably more than gamespot in many ways, but unless that guy and his site are known for balanced reviews. In the comments he's just going full-fanboi on the game, so he's clearly an entirely objective and reliable source.
 

Hey good for him (and you, or whoever) if you think Brink is the best thing since sliced bread. But pulling some random review off the internets that agrees with your opinion doesn't really mean anything.

[Mrbloodworth]

You seem to have missed a part there before your green text highlighting.

Brink is the finest team based shooter to arrive in years

And some after:

but at what stage did we approach team based shooters as solo affairs?

[Sheepherder]

but at what stage did we approach team based shooters as solo affairs?

Why are you bringing unicorns into this argument?

[Azazel]

It also has quite a mountain to climb against BC2.

[Mrbloodworth]

but at what stage did we approach team based shooters as solo affairs?

Why are you bringing unicorns into this argument?

Those unicorns are real.