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Author Topic: Buying a new car, need some advice  (Read 341531 times)
brellium
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Reply #280 on: November 04, 2012, 05:22:35 PM

Leasing is the same as renting anything else. You still are making the monthly payment and have to front the down payment and some maintenance costs and at the end you get to have nothing to show for it.  You're paying the depreciation costs to the dealer and doing them a favor while they make money. 

If you want to give it back in 2 years, find a beater and buy it. Most leases I've seen are 36 month minimum with a penalty for breaking them early. (i.e. "Sure you can walk away, just pay us the next year's lease value and you're out of the contract!  Heck since we're such good guys we'll just roll that in to your next lease payment for you.")    You can try transferring the lease to someone else, but that's as big of a pain as trying to sell a car, and again you don't get anything out of it.
Leases make sense for a lot of people considering that prior to recession the average length of ownership for a car was 39 months.

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Ingmar
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Reply #281 on: November 06, 2012, 12:46:21 PM

It's just a math problem. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't. There's no hard or fast ALL LEASING BAD rule.

If the cost of leasing < the cost of purchasing the car minus what you get back on the trade-in on the next car (over a comparable time span), then lease without feeling guilty.

Yes, you can always find *a* car to buy that makes more sense than leasing from a purely financial perspective, assuming you're willing to discard any other requirements you might have for a vehicle, but the money is not the sole decision making criterion.

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Sky
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Reply #282 on: November 06, 2012, 01:00:58 PM

Ditto buying new vs buying used. I'm quite happy with my 'bought new' FJ and hope to have it on the road at least 11 more years.

But my next truck will be something like this.
Viin
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Reply #283 on: November 06, 2012, 01:17:45 PM

I'll check it out. 

So what'd you drive? Find anything you like?

Try an Audi A3? (Though might be too similar to the GTI to be anything different).

- Viin
jakonovski
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Reply #284 on: January 08, 2014, 02:39:21 PM

I'm gonna necromanciate this because I too have the new car fever. As someone might remember I have a´08 Fiat 500, but I want to change it into something more suited to longer range travel. We have no kids so there's only need for comfy seating for two.

My musings so far are as follows (newest models):

1) Ford Focus hatchback with loads of bells & whistles. A boring choice but it's well priced and guaranteed to be nice. Plus I've driven one of the older models and I really liked it.
2) Nissan Juke with 4WD. Finland has lots of snow and I hate driving with FWD in heavy snow. I get most of my driving pleasure in the summer though.
3) Honda CR-Z. Hybrids are hella cool and this one appeals to the same part of my brain as the Fiat. Plus it has decent performance.

What is a man to do?

Nebu
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Reply #285 on: January 08, 2014, 02:50:12 PM

Drove the Honda and was annoyed by the limited vision.  Test drive one yourself.  It's a nice car, but the lack of vision made me nuts.

Ford Focus: The SVT was nice (albeit a bit spendy) and a decent value.  It's cheap to maintain and fun to drive.

Nissan juke: Felt heavy and poorly balanced to me.  I was disappointed.

Also consider: Mazda 3 Speed and VW Golf GTI.  Both are sporty hatchbacks that are fun to drive, comfortable on long trips, and have some decent hauling capacity.


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
jakonovski
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Reply #286 on: January 08, 2014, 03:05:51 PM

Mazda 3 is a distinct possibility, but so far the new models offered here only come with an awful 2.0 liter 120hp engine. Golf GTI on the other hand costs a shitload here. I'd go with the equivalent Skoda, but it's one of those cars driven by douchebags. Plus the DSG gearbox has been known to break down early due to some defect or another, and so far VW has seen it fit to consider it outside the warranty.


Viin
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Reply #287 on: January 08, 2014, 03:07:11 PM

BMW M3.

- Viin
jakonovski
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Reply #288 on: January 08, 2014, 03:09:32 PM

BMW M3.

Prices for new M-series cars starting at $181k here.

 why so serious?
Chimpy
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Reply #289 on: January 08, 2014, 03:09:34 PM

I would be interested to hear about said DSG problem as I have one in my GTI  why so serious?

Do they sell Subarus in Finland? I really liked the Impreza sport (it is a mini-wagon) and if I had not gotten the deal I got on my GTI I would have purchased one.

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Reply #290 on: January 08, 2014, 03:15:21 PM

Toyota Matrix has an AWD model.
jakonovski
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Reply #291 on: January 08, 2014, 03:16:36 PM

I can only find a Finnish language article about DSG gearboxes breaking down at 60-100k km, when the stated lifespan is 250k. Fixing it costs about 2k euros, and the distributor is only offering to pay half of it. I'm way too neurotic to get one after reading it.

edit: they do sell Subaru and they just did a price decrease to increase sales. Maybe I should consider them too, assuming they're going to offer something else than the low end model and the WRC. It seems to be a thing of the smaller brands around here, they only sell the standard model and the extra pricey special, nothing in between.

edit2: Toyota Matrix is known as the Auris here, and there's no AWD model. Only Urban Cruiser or RAV4. Or if I was a Russian oligarch tourist, a Land Cruiser.



« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 03:24:00 PM by jakonovski »
TheWalrus
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Reply #292 on: January 08, 2014, 03:23:31 PM

I'm a professional mechanic, all makes and models. You couldn't pay me to own a Volkswagon.

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jakonovski
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Reply #293 on: January 08, 2014, 03:39:21 PM

I'm a professional mechanic, all makes and models. You couldn't pay me to own a Volkswagon.


What would you recommend, reliability wise?
Nebu
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Reply #294 on: January 08, 2014, 05:50:58 PM

I also forgot the Suburu Impreza WRX.  I think it comes in 4 door and hatchback models.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Yegolev
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Reply #295 on: January 09, 2014, 06:26:42 AM

My brother is a BMW mechanic and I'm now suspicious of them.  I was already wary of Mercedes due to family-in-law experiences.  Just now, VW is on the list and I think that rounds out all the German badges. Ohhhhh, I see.

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jakonovski
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Reply #296 on: January 09, 2014, 07:22:57 AM

I'm thinking I'll probably stay away from GT cars, as the years go on I want more comfort than performance tuning. A powerful engine is still a must though. The Fiat is a really light car so it goes well, but you gotta rev high. Also it consumes way too much fuel at summer highway speeds.

Nebu
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Reply #297 on: January 09, 2014, 07:30:05 AM

My brother is a BMW mechanic and I'm now suspicious of them.  I was already wary of Mercedes due to family-in-law experiences.  Just now, VW is on the list and I think that rounds out all the German badges. Ohhhhh, I see.

I don't think I'd ever own anything but a German car.  Yes, they are expensive to maintain, but they perform so well for their price point.  Nothing really compares.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Yegolev
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Reply #298 on: January 09, 2014, 08:12:57 AM

My brother is a BMW mechanic and I'm now suspicious of them.  I was already wary of Mercedes due to family-in-law experiences.  Just now, VW is on the list and I think that rounds out all the German badges. Ohhhhh, I see.

I don't think I'd ever own anything but a German car.  Yes, they are expensive to maintain, but they perform so well for their price point.  Nothing really compares.

I think that's the line: how much resource do you tolerate spending on maintenance.  A Mercedes will last you a lifetime if you take it in for service on the recommended schedule.  I'm just not able to do that sort of thing.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
TheWalrus
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Reply #299 on: January 09, 2014, 12:30:54 PM

When it was 1200 dollars for a water pump failure on my customers four year old BMW, (just from the part, not the labor) that's when my giggling went straight into wondering what the hell people see in these piles of shit.

As far as what I would recommend, it sounds like you're across the water, I don't really know whats available to you.

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jakonovski
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Reply #300 on: January 09, 2014, 12:44:23 PM

We basically have most of the same European and Asian cars, except for the weird daughter brands. The only one of those here is Lexus, because this is Toyota country. Car taxation is unbelievably high, so most people drive old cars. On top of that the tax is based on CO2 emissions, so small gas turbos are the only reasonable performance cars. Diesels would be great but to ensure revenue there's a flat yearly tax on those, based on weight.  So in short, taxes taxes taxes.

American cars are terribly overpriced here save for Chrysler and Jeep, no sense in getting one.




« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 12:46:00 PM by jakonovski »
Nebu
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Reply #301 on: January 09, 2014, 01:21:21 PM

When it was 1200 dollars for a water pump failure on my customers four year old BMW, (just from the part, not the labor) that's when my giggling went straight into wondering what the hell people see in these piles of shit.

Drive one.  Then drive a crappy American car.  It's obvious why people drive German cars. 

I've always wondered why it is that America can land on the moon, develop the iPad, and be first in so many things while still producing shitty cars and audio equipment.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
01101010
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Reply #302 on: January 09, 2014, 01:26:59 PM

When it was 1200 dollars for a water pump failure on my customers four year old BMW, (just from the part, not the labor) that's when my giggling went straight into wondering what the hell people see in these piles of shit.

Drive one.  Then drive a crappy American car.  It's obvious why people drive German cars. 

I've always wondered why it is that America can land on the moon, develop the iPad, and be first in so many things while still producing shitty cars and audio equipment.

People routinely dump there german cars 4-6 years after they buy them (new) because the free maintenance and warranty are gone and the repair costs start punching then in the dick. You lease a german car, you buy the other ones. I have driven quite a few german cars as well and they are nice, but not nice enough to bleed out to pay for repairs on them. No way in hell I'd ever own one... but I am relatively poor so the cost of maintaining > quality of the drive. I'll keep my RSX-S until I can't find engines for it.

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Reply #303 on: January 09, 2014, 01:43:22 PM

I've always wondered why it is that America can land on the moon, develop the iPad, and be first in so many things while still producing shitty cars and audio equipment.

It's possible that the UAW was not involved in the iPad or NASA.

GM cars are awful, even the Cadillac.  Fords seem pretty OK, at least they seem to be cheap to maintain.  The Mustang is easy to modify, at least some of them.  I figure any American car should come with a roller deck and a chain horse.

I drive Nissans, which I'm given to believe are actually French.  They typically don't break, which I enjoy, and they drive pretty OK also.  I put some Goodyear Eagle GT on my G37 (JP Skyline) and I really have a good time in it considering it's a four-door.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
murdoc
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Reply #304 on: January 09, 2014, 02:21:04 PM

When it was 1200 dollars for a water pump failure on my customers four year old BMW, (just from the part, not the labor) that's when my giggling went straight into wondering what the hell people see in these piles of shit.

Drive one.  Then drive a crappy American car.  It's obvious why people drive German cars. 

I've always wondered why it is that America can land on the moon, develop the iPad, and be first in so many things while still producing shitty cars and audio equipment.

People routinely dump there german cars 4-6 years after they buy them (new) because the free maintenance and warranty are gone and the repair costs start punching then in the dick. You lease a german car, you buy the other ones. I have driven quite a few german cars as well and they are nice, but not nice enough to bleed out to pay for repairs on them. No way in hell I'd ever own one... but I am relatively poor so the cost of maintaining > quality of the drive. I'll keep my RSX-S until I can't find engines for it.

My S4 is a money pit, but goddamn it's fun to drive - especially in the winter. I have been saying I need to sell it for 2 years, but I always come up with some reason why I should keep it for awhile longer.

Have you tried the internet? It's made out of millions of people missing the point of everything and then getting angry about it
Morat20
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Reply #305 on: January 09, 2014, 07:33:47 PM

I'm a professional mechanic, all makes and models. You couldn't pay me to own a Volkswagon.

Huh. The 2001 Beetle we got lasted until...2013. Only put like 80,000 miles on it though. We sold it when the brake repairs were gonna run 1600 or so. (Apparently there's a very expensive part).

I've had my Prius since 2009, and I'm still quite happy with it. We picked up an Elantra too, to replace the Beetle, and so far so good.
Viin
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Reply #306 on: January 09, 2014, 07:38:45 PM

When it was 1200 dollars for a water pump failure on my customers four year old BMW, (just from the part, not the labor) that's when my giggling went straight into wondering what the hell people see in these piles of shit.

Drive one.  Then drive a crappy American car.  It's obvious why people drive German cars. 

I got a 2002 BMW M3 last summer, with 80k miles. Yes it can be expensive to repair at a BMW shop, but if you can do a little yourself it's really not bad. Well taken care of cars (which top end models tend to be) will last a long time and drive better than most new vehicles. Honestly, this M3 is hands down a 1000 times better than the brand-new 2002 Mustang I had back in the day. (Of course, it was also significantly more expensive than the Mustang in 2002).

- Viin
TheWalrus
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Reply #307 on: January 10, 2014, 12:10:55 PM

When it was 1200 dollars for a water pump failure on my customers four year old BMW, (just from the part, not the labor) that's when my giggling went straight into wondering what the hell people see in these piles of shit.

Drive one.  Then drive a crappy American car.  It's obvious why people drive German cars. 

I've always wondered why it is that America can land on the moon, develop the iPad, and be first in so many things while still producing shitty cars and audio equipment.

I have, and I do. Although they certainly aren't crappy. I have a 2008 Pontiac G6 GT, and a 2007 Chev Avalanche LTZ. Love both of em. Zero problems on either. Much more comfortable than anything even close to the price range of both cars combined. I stand by what I've said.

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TheWalrus
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Reply #308 on: January 10, 2014, 12:16:24 PM

We basically have most of the same European and Asian cars, except for the weird daughter brands. The only one of those here is Lexus, because this is Toyota country. Car taxation is unbelievably high, so most people drive old cars. On top of that the tax is based on CO2 emissions, so small gas turbos are the only reasonable performance cars. Diesels would be great but to ensure revenue there's a flat yearly tax on those, based on weight.  So in short, taxes taxes taxes.

American cars are terribly overpriced here save for Chrysler and Jeep, no sense in getting one.

Toyotas of most types are pretty decent, though I can't think of an AWD model offhand that makes me go wow. I don't fit in a Honda, but I have no mechanical issues with them. Subarus are fine. I'm irritated about their lack of customer care on their head gasket issues they've had, but that seems to have gone away since 2008. If you were going to go with a euro model, Mercedes is about the only one I could recommend. Pricey and what not. Stay the hell away from any Chrysler products.

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Selby
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Reply #309 on: January 10, 2014, 12:26:45 PM

Toyotas of most types are pretty decent, though I can't think of an AWD model offhand that makes me go wow. I don't fit in a Honda, but I have no mechanical issues with them. Subarus are fine. I'm irritated about their lack of customer care on their head gasket issues they've had, but that seems to have gone away since 2008. If you were going to go with a euro model, Mercedes is about the only one I could recommend. Pricey and what not. Stay the hell away from any Chrysler products.
Being involved in the automotive world, I'll second all of this.  It's hard to go wrong with any of the listed cars and staying away from Chrysler is a wise choice for the most part ("Dodge" does mean "to evade or avoid" after all).  Mercedes\BMW\etc are all very fine cars, just be prepared to do the yearly maintenance and it not being cheap once the warranty runs out.
Nebu
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Reply #310 on: January 10, 2014, 12:44:31 PM

Toyotas of most types are pretty decent, though I can't think of an AWD model offhand that makes me go wow.

This is my issue with Hyundai and Toyota.  Good value cars, but they are so 'meh'.  Bland bland bland.  All the driving in the world just can't eeek any fun out of them.  

Walrus: I understand what you mean about domestics being a good value.  They're cheap to buy and cheap to maintain.  I prefer to spend a little more and really enjoy the driving experience.  It's just a personal taste thing.  I own a BMW 128i and it's not that much more expensive than your Pontiac.  See the reviews below.

Car and Driver road test: G6 GT

Car and Driver road test: BMW 128i
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 12:49:31 PM by Nebu »

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Numtini
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Reply #311 on: January 10, 2014, 05:16:35 PM

Quote
This is my issue with Hyundai and Toyota.  Good value cars, but they are so 'meh'.  Bland bland bland.  All the driving in the world just can't eeek any fun out of them. 

Yeah the right answer is always a recent model year used Corolla, but omg even I'm not that boring.

If you can read this, you're on a board populated by misogynist assholes.
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Reply #312 on: January 11, 2014, 12:40:32 AM

I am. The deeper you get into "boring" the further you are from "terrifying", which is fine by me as far as driving is concerned. Currently in the market for a used Civic coupe or something. Hadn't looked into Hyundai though, will have to do that.
TheWalrus
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Reply #313 on: January 11, 2014, 12:42:50 AM

Well sure Nebu. If I didn't have a family I wouldn't have to buy a car that had room for them. :P

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shiznitz
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Reply #314 on: January 11, 2014, 07:11:25 AM

I love my 2007 Acura RDX.  It is really fun to drive, stable in bad weather, big enough for lugging kids to sports but not a monster SUV.  And the '07 was only a 4 cylinder turbo.  Now the RDX is V6.

I have never played WoW.
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