The Hobbit (2012/2013)

[Mrbloodworth]

Stop being a jerk Bloodworth!

I don't know how! 

[Ironwood]

You guys are bored huh?

If I felt the need to wander into every thread in the MMOG boards and post something in each for the sake of having something to post, I'm pretty sure all of my posts would say this.

Thankfully I'm not quite that big of a douchebag.

 

I'm right here, you know.

[Ratman_tf]

3.  Gandalf's Arrival "HAY GUISE I FOUND EOMER LOL. ALSO, THAT LIGHT IN YOUR EYES IS MY AWESOME!"

Helm's Deep is one of the parts I'm thinking of. After rolling my eyes at the magical elves and Legolas shield surfing, the rest was dull as dishwater.

[Triforcer]

I've heard that the taxation of trade routes to outlying regions of Mirkwood is in dispute, and Gandalf meets with the Mirkwood ambassador in a conference room to discuss.  Then, they fight over Mirkwood, and debate about it in a bigger conference room  later.

[Tannhauser]

I think my attempt at 'humor' has failed.  I liked almost all of TT; the Legolas skateboarding was NOT one of them.  It may be my favorite of the three movies.  Great action.

[Khaldun]

I'm not really seeing the complaint against the action scenes, yeah. Particularly not in the first two films. There's a couple that go on too long in TT--the warg attack primarily. ROTK the film I can see some complaints--there are filler scenes that bore me a bit and as I've said, I think Jackson bungles the sequencing of the overall Pelennor Fields battle. But he gets the Moria sequences nearly pitch-perfect (I could do without the collapsing stonework bit), the battle at Amon Hen is very well done, most of the siege of Helm's Deep is at least good (skateboarding and other elvish shit aside) with the arrival of Gandalf being great, and the Ent attack is also great. I intensely dislike the scenes with Frodo, Sam, Gollum and Faramir in Osgiliath (if the Rider actually SAW Frodo WITH the Ring, it wouldn't go away under any circumstances and the rest of them would have been there within an hour...plus the whole misdirection of Sauron that's key to the plotline of TT and ROTK falls apart) but that's not really an action sequence in the same sense.

[palmer_eldritch]

I'm not really seeing the complaint against the action scenes, yeah. Particularly not in the first two films. There's a couple that go on too long in TT--the warg attack primarily. ROTK the film I can see some complaints--there are filler scenes that bore me a bit and as I've said, I think Jackson bungles the sequencing of the overall Pelennor Fields battle. But he gets the Moria sequences nearly pitch-perfect (I could do without the collapsing stonework bit), the battle at Amon Hen is very well done, most of the siege of Helm's Deep is at least good (skateboarding and other elvish shit aside) with the arrival of Gandalf being great, and the Ent attack is also great. I intensely dislike the scenes with Frodo, Sam, Gollum and Faramir in Osgiliath (if the Rider actually SAW Frodo WITH the Ring, it wouldn't go away under any circumstances and the rest of them would have been there within an hour...plus the whole misdirection of Sauron that's key to the plotline of TT and ROTK falls apart) but that's not really an action sequence in the same sense.

I never really thought about the rider seeing the ring. You're right, so why then does Sauron think Pippin have the ring in The Return of the King (movie)? I know it's because Pippin looks in the palantir but Sauron already knows Frodo has it. Does he think all hobbits look the same? Was the rider simply unable to get a message to Sauron somehow? Did he imagine that maybe Frodo used to have the ring but he'd handed it over to his buddy? 

[Merusk]

[Khaldun]

I'm not really seeing the complaint against the action scenes, yeah. Particularly not in the first two films. There's a couple that go on too long in TT--the warg attack primarily. ROTK the film I can see some complaints--there are filler scenes that bore me a bit and as I've said, I think Jackson bungles the sequencing of the overall Pelennor Fields battle. But he gets the Moria sequences nearly pitch-perfect (I could do without the collapsing stonework bit), the battle at Amon Hen is very well done, most of the siege of Helm's Deep is at least good (skateboarding and other elvish shit aside) with the arrival of Gandalf being great, and the Ent attack is also great. I intensely dislike the scenes with Frodo, Sam, Gollum and Faramir in Osgiliath (if the Rider actually SAW Frodo WITH the Ring, it wouldn't go away under any circumstances and the rest of them would have been there within an hour...plus the whole misdirection of Sauron that's key to the plotline of TT and ROTK falls apart) but that's not really an action sequence in the same sense.

I never really thought about the rider seeing the ring. You're right, so why then does Sauron think Pippin have the ring in The Return of the King (movie)? I know it's because Pippin looks in the palantir but Sauron already knows Frodo has it. Does he think all hobbits look the same? Was the rider simply unable to get a message to Sauron somehow? Did he imagine that maybe Frodo used to have the ring but he'd handed it over to his buddy? 

I don't think there's any way to no-prize that scene into making sense in terms of the overall narrative. So many other references survive in the films of the basic conceit that Gandalf and Aragorn are deliberately distracting Sauron from his own borders and making him hurry up his war out of fear that one of them is going to wield the Ring--but given what one of his Ringwraiths actually saw and felt (the Nazgul *knows* it's the Ring, he can feel it) that makes zero sense. In the books, Frodo, Sam and Gollum are almost done in simply because the Witch-King at Morgul Vale can vaguely sense the Ring's presence from a long ways away.

I think this speaks to the real problem with Jackson: he doesn't know when to go minimalist in creating tension or drama. Everything has to be dialed up to 11. That's what leads him to wretched excess like Super-Legolas or the Melty-Acid Dead Men. It's not like LOTR is short on bombast but there are a few places where a more subtle hand might be called for. The Hobbit is WAY more that way--some of its pleasures are really quieter, more subtle scenes.

[shiznitz]

I never really focused on how the ring scene with the Nazgul is all kinds of off the rails.  Wow.  Jackson clearly made a movie more filled with striking moments than textual accuracy or consistency.  Still a great trilogy of movies, though.  I still really enjoy re-watching all the major fight scenes, even the wargs.

[Samwise]

I just came across this on Facebook:


and it reminded me all over again how much I hated the portrayal of the Ents in the movies as being essentially stupid.  I had to go and dig up this passage from the Two Towers:


I really do need to pick up a cheap copy of the books and reread them.  I'd forgotten how enjoyable Tolkien's dialogue is.

[Khaldun]

Pretty much that. Particularly considering that Tolkien had to do some awkward dancing in his own mythology to explain hobbits, but about the clearest thing you get from him is that Treebeard's not wrong: hobbits are *really* recent by his reckoning, despite Merry and Pippin saying they've been around for a "long time". Basically hobbits are mutant Men. They're not listed separately in the old lists that Treebeard is thinking of because they didn't exist in those old lists, and by the kind of reckoning involved in them they still don't "exist".

[Samwise]

I googled around and found this site compiled by greater nerds than I.

Hobbits were considered Men. Nearly all scholars agree that Men were closely related to Hobbits, far more closely than Men were to either Elves or Dwarves. It was thus commonly assumed that Hobbits were among the Younger Children of Ilúvatar and were the result of the same act of creation as Men. This would imply that Hobbits had the Gift of Men to pass entirely beyond Arda.

Their exact origin is unknown and come into the records not earlier than the early Third Age where they were living in the Vales of Anduin in Wilderland, between Mirkwood and the Misty Mountains. They have lost the genealogical details of how they are related to the rest of mankind. While they stayed there, the Northmen knew them. Their descendants, the Rohirrim had that memory of the holbytlan and remained an object of lore until they contacted them during the War of the Ring.

[Shannow]

I think this speaks to the real problem with Jackson: he doesn't know when to go minimalist in creating tension or drama. Everything has to be dialed up to 11. That's what leads him to wretched excess like Super-Legolas or the Melty-Acid Dead Men. It's not like LOTR is short on bombast but there are a few places where a more subtle hand might be called for. The Hobbit is WAY more that way--some of its pleasures are really quieter, more subtle scenes.

That's probably one of the better way I've seen of summing up what's wrong with the LOTR films. Also why The Fellowship is my favourite of the three.

[palmer_eldritch]

I googled around and found this site compiled by greater nerds than I.

Hobbits were considered Men. Nearly all scholars agree that Men were closely related to Hobbits, far more closely than Men were to either Elves or Dwarves. It was thus commonly assumed that Hobbits were among the Younger Children of Ilúvatar and were the result of the same act of creation as Men. This would imply that Hobbits had the Gift of Men to pass entirely beyond Arda.

Their exact origin is unknown and come into the records not earlier than the early Third Age where they were living in the Vales of Anduin in Wilderland, between Mirkwood and the Misty Mountains. They have lost the genealogical details of how they are related to the rest of mankind. While they stayed there, the Northmen knew them. Their descendants, the Rohirrim had that memory of the holbytlan and remained an object of lore until they contacted them during the War of the Ring.

Interesting site. It still amazes me that one man created such a detailed imaginary world.

[Malakili]

New trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yYz0JWJioOM

[Samwise]

New trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yYz0JWJioOM

As with the previous trailer, I really liked the bit in the Shire with Bilbo meeting the dwarves.

What we saw of the Gollum scene made me miss the Bakshi version, which is never a good sign.

[HaemishM]

Was that Tom Bombadil with the rat speaking about dark powers and shit?

[Ironwood]

 

[Rishathra]

Was that Tom Bombadil with the rat speaking about dark powers and shit?

I believe it was Radagast.

[Ironwood]

Yeah, I think so too.  The appendices say that he warned Gandalf about 'The Necromancer' being Sauron.

It fits.

[01101010]

Was that Tom Bombadil with the rat speaking about dark powers and shit?

I believe it was Radagast.

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Radagast 

[Mrbloodworth]

Radagast is the Dr. 

[Ratman_tf]

Yeah, I think so too.  The appendices say that he warned Gandalf about 'The Necromancer' being Sauron.

It fits.

Anything fits if you hit it hard enough.

[Khaldun]

You know, given that the lore says almost nothing about Radagast in the time frame of LOTR other than being a dupe of Saruman and then equally accidentally freeing up Gandalf--neither of which is part of Jackson's LOTR films--they could probably have him die (and not get a Scroll of Resurrection like Gandalf) in the Dol Guldur battle. I like the way McCoy looks in the role, at any rate.

[Ingmar]

My initial reaction to how they made him look is  but I won't rule out growing accustomed to it.

[Ironwood]

I think it would have been a mistake to make him look like just another tall chap with white hair.  So I'm ok with it.

[Ingmar]

Yeah I'm just not sure Monty Python pepperpot driving a rabbit sleigh would have been my first choice of alternative. It does have a certain Russian-mythology charm I guess.

[Tannhauser]

Nice trailer.  Showed some scenes I'm REALLY looking forward to.  Looks like they will get to Goblintown in this movie at least.

[Khaldun]

Radagast in his very limited mentions comes off like he's not your conventional wizard so I think being a Gandalf-Saruman type is wrong both in lore terms and in visual terms for a film. My impression is always that he's a hippy-wizard, more like Tom Bombadil than Gandalf only without the hot elf chick for a wife.

[Hawkbit]

I did not like the trailer, and I most likely won't like the movie. 

It's one of those books that I have an image already in my head that crosses between the Bakshi version and my mental imagery.  This is so far away from the way I imagined it.  Plus, there's added silly shit in it. 

I'm being a curmudgeon, but I'm just tired of seeing the greats being bastardized. 

[Malakili]

Radagast in his very limited mentions comes off like he's not your conventional wizard so I think being a Gandalf-Saruman type is wrong both in lore terms and in visual terms for a film. My impression is always that he's a hippy-wizard, more like Tom Bombadil than Gandalf only without the hot elf chick for a wife.

He has always come across as a bit druidy (in dungeons and dragons terms).  So yeah, hippy wizard.

[Ingmar]

The version in my head is a much fitter, wildernessy sort of fellow than where they're going with it. More Grizzly Adams, less The Day The Earth Froze.

[Ironwood]

Yeah, but The Wizards all looked like frail old men who couldn't even stand without a staff.

[Yegolev]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2k_EiYh4IU

I don't know, that looks pretty awesome even if it does deviate a bit from canon.