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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  RIFT  |  Topic: What went right. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: What went right.  (Read 29716 times)
Draegan
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Reply #140 on: April 11, 2011, 10:22:04 AM

Well they didn't take that long to slap warriors down to balance.  I still feel powerful, just not facerolly op anymore.

The last patch actually buffed warriors in PVE settings.

Do what? My Reaver/Pally took a dramatic hit in both dps and self-healing.  Where, pray, did you find some buffing?

On that topic, I think the nerfing was sadly inept and poorly aimed, even if it was needed in some form.  I went from being able to wade through wave after wave of 3-5 equal cons pretty much indefinitely to losing about 20% health each wave, unless I use all possible consumables to keep up, in which case I can still keep going indefinitely until I run out of consumables.




I'm talking strictly pure PVE dps.  They did nerf some leveling/farming builds, thats for sure.

In your case, it probably was a needed nerf.  They don't want classes to go on pulling 5 mobs at once and keep on ticking without needing to drink/use pots.  They've nerfed clerics, rogues and now warriors that were able to do this.  You can argue whether or not they should of in the first place, but it was a balancing mechanic from the point of view of their design docs.  I don't think it had anything to do with PVP.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 10:25:22 AM by Draegan »
Nebu
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Reply #141 on: April 11, 2011, 10:34:42 AM

I'm talking strictly pure PVE dps.  They did nerf some leveling/farming builds, thats for sure.

In your case, it probably was a needed nerf.  They don't want classes to go on pulling 5 mobs at once and keep on ticking without needing to drink/use pots.  They've nerfed clerics, rogues and now warriors that were able to do this.  You can argue whether or not they should of in the first place, but it was a balancing mechanic from the point of view of their design docs.  I don't think it had anything to do with PVP.

Does that mean that necro/locks necro/chloro are next to be nerfed? 

Trion also needs to generate a mechanic that outright separates PvE and PvP balancing of souls and damage output/mitigation.  If they don't, their PvP will continue to look like the poorly implemented, tacked on element that it is. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Xanthippe
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Reply #142 on: April 11, 2011, 10:35:00 AM

There was apparently some bard stealth nerf to cadence - it doesn't damage nor heal as well as it did pre-patch.

I still don't understand bard mechanics at all.  What the tooltips say and what actually happens seem different to me.  I will admit to being lazy about my confusion - I haven't really tried to get it all squared away.

(This should probably be in the gripes thread rather than this one.)
Zetor
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Reply #143 on: April 11, 2011, 10:50:50 AM

Well they didn't take that long to slap warriors down to balance.  I still feel powerful, just not facerolly op anymore.

The last patch actually buffed warriors in PVE settings.

Do what? My Reaver/Pally took a dramatic hit in both dps and self-healing.  Where, pray, did you find some buffing?

On that topic, I think the nerfing was sadly inept and poorly aimed, even if it was needed in some form.  I went from being able to wade through wave after wave of 3-5 equal cons pretty much indefinitely to losing about 20% health each wave, unless I use all possible consumables to keep up, in which case I can still keep going indefinitely until I run out of consumables.




I'm talking strictly pure PVE dps.  They did nerf some leveling/farming builds, thats for sure.

In your case, it probably was a needed nerf.  They don't want classes to go on pulling 5 mobs at once and keep on ticking without needing to drink/use pots.  They've nerfed clerics, rogues and now warriors that were able to do this.  You can argue whether or not they should of in the first place, but it was a balancing mechanic from the point of view of their design docs.  I don't think it had anything to do with PVP.
My 1.1 inquisitor/cabalist spec could farm 5-6 mobs at the same time effortlessly at level 40+ while killing them with almost the same speed as a single target DPS spec; zero downtime. With inquisitor / justicar it could be even more survivable (at the cost of some mana issues that'd be mostly alleviated by the justicar mana regen skill).

squirrel
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Reply #144 on: April 11, 2011, 11:28:41 AM

There was apparently some bard stealth nerf to cadence - it doesn't damage nor heal as well as it did pre-patch.

I still don't understand bard mechanics at all.  What the tooltips say and what actually happens seem different to me.  I will admit to being lazy about my confusion - I haven't really tried to get it all squared away.

(This should probably be in the gripes thread rather than this one.)

Well, that would be shitty.

Speaking of marketing, we're out of milk.
Draegan
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Reply #145 on: April 13, 2011, 10:15:42 AM

I'm talking strictly pure PVE dps.  They did nerf some leveling/farming builds, thats for sure.

In your case, it probably was a needed nerf.  They don't want classes to go on pulling 5 mobs at once and keep on ticking without needing to drink/use pots.  They've nerfed clerics, rogues and now warriors that were able to do this.  You can argue whether or not they should of in the first place, but it was a balancing mechanic from the point of view of their design docs.  I don't think it had anything to do with PVP.

Does that mean that necro/locks necro/chloro are next to be nerfed? 

Trion also needs to generate a mechanic that outright separates PvE and PvP balancing of souls and damage output/mitigation.  If they don't, their PvP will continue to look like the poorly implemented, tacked on element that it is. 

Maybe they'll get nerfed next, who knows.  As to your second point: Amen.  /agreed
Draegan
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Reply #146 on: April 13, 2011, 10:18:18 AM

There was apparently some bard stealth nerf to cadence - it doesn't damage nor heal as well as it did pre-patch.

I still don't understand bard mechanics at all.  What the tooltips say and what actually happens seem different to me.  I will admit to being lazy about my confusion - I haven't really tried to get it all squared away.

(This should probably be in the gripes thread rather than this one.)

Bards are the worst and most boring soul in the game.  But it's a huge gripe and probably belongs in the other thread.

But the short of it is: Bards are very boring.  You don't dps, you don't heal, you just stand there and buff.  You don't recieve any feedback from your actions.  Your healing is passive, your buffs don't actually do anything, you don't have to do anything to activate them.  There is not dps/buff rotation either.  At least archons have to do things to activate buffs and they can dps pretty well at the same time.

Hell Chloros can heal and dps decently as well.

Anyway, Bards need serious help in the mechanics department.  Sure their buffs are very useful, but actually playing a bard sucks ass. (In a group/raid, not solo).
Comstar
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Reply #147 on: April 13, 2011, 11:16:45 AM

But the short of it is: Bards are very boring.  You don't dps, you don't heal, you just stand there and buff.  You don't recieve any feedback from your actions.  Your healing is passive, your buffs don't actually do anything, you don't have to do anything to activate them.  There is not dps/buff rotation either.  At least archons have to do things to activate buffs and they can dps pretty well at the same time.

What Bard are you playing and why are you playing like that? I keep the 30 second buff timers up, but I also do the 1 minute debuffs (both of them), the party heal, the party other heal, single target mez, the party buffs for anyone who's died in the PvP, and in between all that, a DPS finisher and a DPS AoE attack AND the the healing/DPS of my basic attack.

It's no more boring than any other DPS Buff + macro x 5 + finisher repeat endlessly that my Nightblade does, and it requires playing the keyboard a bit more. The really bad thing is you can't in game macro the 30 second buff x5 playlist, but I use my Keyboard macro to do that.

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Azuredream
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Reply #148 on: April 13, 2011, 11:35:33 AM

If we're just talking raids, you don't need to do distress or cowardice as an Archon does both, and doesn't need 5 combo points to do it either, and you WANT them doing it and not you because it buffs the Archon who casts it and lasts for 5 minutes and not 1. In the limited amount of raiding I've done mez'ing also has no use (yet). You should always have an Archon in your raid for Burning Purpose/Flaring Power.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 11:38:18 AM by Azuredream »

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Draegan
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Reply #149 on: April 13, 2011, 01:01:46 PM

But the short of it is: Bards are very boring.  You don't dps, you don't heal, you just stand there and buff.  You don't recieve any feedback from your actions.  Your healing is passive, your buffs don't actually do anything, you don't have to do anything to activate them.  There is not dps/buff rotation either.  At least archons have to do things to activate buffs and they can dps pretty well at the same time.

What Bard are you playing and why are you playing like that? I keep the 30 second buff timers up, but I also do the 1 minute debuffs (both of them), the party heal, the party other heal, single target mez, the party buffs for anyone who's died in the PvP, and in between all that, a DPS finisher and a DPS AoE attack AND the the healing/DPS of my basic attack.

It's no more boring than any other DPS Buff + macro x 5 + finisher repeat endlessly that my Nightblade does, and it requires playing the keyboard a bit more. The really bad thing is you can't in game macro the 30 second buff x5 playlist, but I use my Keyboard macro to do that.

Azuredream's got the bulk of it.  The healing is pretty poor (I'm trying to make it better with gear/trinkets/essences), the debuffs don't stack with other classes who have better versions.  You don't need/use the mezz in any dungeon/raid.  The party heal is pretty weak and on a 1? 2? minute cooldown so it's situational.  The dps of wrath/fury is pretty awful compared to anyone else.  The debuffs get wiped off by other classes who have better versions.

Again this isn't a PVP rant, bards are pretty good in warfronts and open world leveling and pvp I guess.  I don't have much experience with them.

The difference between a Bard rotation and a Night Blade is that a Night Blade sees immediate and measurable feedback from their actions.  I'm a Night Blade, here's my rotation, I see big numbers and bad guys die.  I can see it in parses as well.  A Bard is pretty much meh.  The healing is weak that you don't get to see green bars fill up.  You're not saving anyone.  You're essentially healing the damage before a Chloromancer can trigger it.  I have to spam buffs every 30 seconds which is awful.  Hooray for G15 Keyboards.  I don't get any feedback from them either.

Bard dps is like 100-150 on Greenscale.  I have a new build which is 31 Bard 26 Ranger 8 NB to see if I can push 500 dps while providing the same buffs.

Also don't get me started on Verse of Joy.  Useful for the mana return but it provides something like a third or half the mana of a mana tonic that uses two herbs.  So it's useless for all the extra points you spend.  There is virtually nothing useful in a PVE area between 31 pts and 51 pts.  You're only argument could be the AOE heal on a 1-2 minute cooldown that usually goes off for 500-1000 depending on crit/gear.
Zetor
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Reply #150 on: April 13, 2011, 02:30:18 PM

Most of my experts so far had a bard, and it was awesome. I play a healer, and I can basically focus on the tank full time except for bursty AOE at bosses (rare) and not worry about mana management (verse of joy is pretty awesome). All those buffs and debuffs matter quite a bit in a 5man [I have yet to see an archon in an expert dungeon, btw], and bard dps, while low, is offset by them amplifying the group's damage and survivability by a lot.


Random anecdote: the first expert I did after hitting 50 on my cleric was KB as the healer. The first boss and the trash afterward was a nail-biter at times, I had to rotate my cooldowns and maintain a very tight rotation, not to mention using mana-inefficient ohcrap heals all the time [we wiped on the first boss twice because someone got cleaved and I couldn't heal them without the tank dying - then the adds overwhelmed us due to low dps], and that was with a cleric in justicar support mode. Our DPS warrior dropped and a bard joined, our justicar switched back to his pure dps spec... healing became a whole lot easier, stuff started dying a lot faster, and we one-shot everything in there until Konstantin (nobody in the group has killed him before, so it took 3 tries to figure it out). The manticores in particular were dead easy to heal with a bard backing me up.

Draegan
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Reply #151 on: April 13, 2011, 09:26:10 PM

Bards help sure, but a Cleric/Chloro with 2 proper dps is soooo much better.  Chloro heals better than a bard and their dps is about 3x better.
Azuredream
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Reply #152 on: April 14, 2011, 05:36:18 AM

I am a 50 mage who almost always runs chloro, I could generally soloheal almost everything in a 5 man (The bosses I needed help with were Atrophinius the Fallen, Calyx the Ancient, Caelia, Scarn, and Plutonus.. that list is down to Atro/Plutonus now), but if I needed help we would have our Inq cleric switch to heals. I never really found an encounter that I couldn't soloheal but I could heal with a bard helping. It's probably different for a Cleric healer though.


The Lord of the Land approaches..
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #153 on: April 16, 2011, 01:46:28 PM

Follow-up on one thing they almost did right - the public rift raid grouping.  We complained earlier about the need to not loose our groups when joining the public rift group/raid, and they mostly fixed that.  First with the merge groups options, and a week or two ago they added an unmerge option which pulls your group out of the raid intact.  Now, it's still not perfect.  The merge group function often splits your group members across multiple raid groups (so much for using those F-keys during the raid!), and the unmerge option strangely isn't available every once in awhile.  But these really are big big improvements to an already great idea.  I'd grade the implementation as it stands now as a B+.

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Xanthippe
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Reply #154 on: April 25, 2011, 09:07:25 AM

I spend most of my time exploring. Finding puzzles and cairns and rare mobs is more fun to me than anything.  There is so much of that in Rift that I'm having a blast playing this game.  I spent yesterday hunting artifacts - since it was Easter, it seemed appropriate. 

Playing on a pvp rp server is also greatly enhancing my game-time.  The community is terrific, for the most part.  The guardians on Sunrest are outnumbered by defiants, and there are pk-guilds and anti-pk guilds.  It's hilarious getting attacked by a guy who is 20 levels beneath me because I'm the enemy (reminds me of my brief time in Shadowclan on Mordred in DAOC).

dd0029
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Reply #155 on: April 27, 2011, 10:03:22 AM

One touch I enjoy is the way the zone loading screens update based on your character's progression through the zone's story.
Rasix
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Reply #156 on: April 27, 2011, 10:39:47 AM

So, I log in today to play something while I do some late night work.  Haven't played for like a month or so, but sitting in my mail is a nice event gift.  Free 20 slot bag and weapon cache?  Thanks!

-Rasix
Hutch
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Reply #157 on: April 27, 2011, 10:30:20 PM

So, I log in today to play something while I do some late night work.  Haven't played for like a month or so, but sitting in my mail is a nice event gift.  Free 20 slot bag and weapon cache?  Thanks!

That's the PR bundle that they handed out after the River of Souls server downtime fest Phase 2 & 3 events.

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Xanthippe
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Reply #158 on: April 28, 2011, 09:26:54 PM

No weekly maintenance with a quarter-day of downtime.
Threash
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Reply #159 on: April 29, 2011, 10:06:17 AM

No weekly maintenance with a quarter-day of downtime.

They do bring the servers down almost every single day to fix something.  It never lasts more than 30 mins though.

I am the .00000001428%
Rasix
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Reply #160 on: May 13, 2011, 12:03:43 PM

I'm not quite sure how to categorize "Super Mario Cairn" as an experience.  I've never seen a company directly reward what is borderline terrain exploitation.

Gave me a green hat.  GEE THANKS.

-Rasix
Nebu
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Reply #161 on: May 13, 2011, 12:08:41 PM

I'm not quite sure how to categorize "Super Mario Cairn" as an experience.  I've never seen a company directly reward what is borderline terrain exploitation.

Gave me a green hat.  GEE THANKS.

Wait until you start hunting some of the crazy named artifact hiding spots.  It's pretty impressive how tough some of them are to get to. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Maledict
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Reply #162 on: May 13, 2011, 03:15:56 PM

I think one the best things they did was that expert dungeons are actually *different*. When heroics were first launched in WoW, we were promised extra areas and bosses. In the end, we just saw more hitpoints and more adds.

Expert dungeons in Rift are completely different beasts, and often complete the storyline for that dungeon that you first saw 20 levels ago. Deepstrike Mines, Iron Tombs - they all have large, extra areas with completely new mobs and bosses. This works much better than the exact same dungeon with the numbers tuned up.
Threash
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Reply #163 on: May 20, 2011, 01:23:41 PM

They are still doing almost daily hotfixes, it's pretty incredible.

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Xanthippe
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Reply #164 on: May 22, 2011, 09:28:01 AM

I've been playing in the warfronts almost exclusively on my mage since about level 36.  It's a slower way to level but it suits me, because I know the warfronts turn at 50 (where people get gear and prestige ranks which enable better pvp powers), and I'm not looking forward to being a baby 50.  Mage is 48, so it's coming up.

I still haven't done many instances - that's a whole 'nother part of the game to open for me.  I'm planning on starting instances once I am 50 on the mage.

Rift is delivering for me, I'm still enjoying it immensely.  Achievements are sort of like a to-do list for me, I love finding shinies and collecting stuff, and have only solved 2 puzzles (and only found 3 -  I still have those to find and solve as well).  Updates are still bringing me happiness, and the community is real nice - both sides, in fact (mostly).  Love being able to talk to the other side.  Interacting on a pvp server without pvping is neat.
Threash
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Reply #165 on: May 22, 2011, 09:47:56 AM

Yeah, Rift is official my "default" game now.  I will play SWTOR, GW2, Tera, and probably everything else that launches but i will not be going back to wow during the lulls or failures it will be Rift from now.  Much like wow erased any possibility of me enjoying everquest ever again.

I am the .00000001428%
Dren
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Reply #166 on: May 23, 2011, 02:06:54 PM

Probably said somehwere else in this topic, but too long to read the whole thing now. 

The ability to play with 8 souls within a particular class set almost with no restrictions is awesome to me.  I haven't been playing a ton yet and my Cleric already has all 8 souls now.  I have 3 role sets set up and there are, what, 4 more I could open later?  The cheap respecs allow me to monkey around and get comfortable with my playstyle too.

So, right now I have a build for DPS, DPS/Healer/Self Preservation, Pure Healer.  I need to work on a tank role now, but I haven't done a whole lot with instances or a need for this yet.  The second role set was really cheap.  The third, not so much...  Haven't checked on cost for the 4th, etc.

I think I tested the other day that I could change roles mid-combat and it worked.  Not sure if I was truly in combat (was during a rift fight.)

Other than race and faction, not sure why you would have more than 4 alts at this point.  In the future, free server transfers?  Even more reason to just concentrate on 4.  Speaking as an altoholic, this is a good thing.  I get my altoholic fix without the huge number of characters/items/achievements/etc.
dd0029
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Reply #167 on: May 23, 2011, 02:21:23 PM

I think I tested the other day that I could change roles mid-combat and it worked.  Not sure if I was truly in combat (was during a rift fight.)

You were probably out of combat on a stage change. I am almost certain you can't switch in combat.

The souls thing is pretty sweet though. I particularly like the cheapness of respecs. I try out new specs on my cleric all the time.
Xanthippe
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Reply #168 on: May 25, 2011, 09:58:04 AM

One can have a total of 5 souls.  (The last one costs 100p, just as the last bank slot costs 100p).

You can switch to a different soul any time you aren't in combat, even in warfronts.

Respecs are really cheap.

Draegan
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Reply #169 on: May 25, 2011, 12:05:18 PM

One can have a total of 5 souls.  (The last one costs 100p, just as the last bank slot costs 100p).

You can switch to a different soul any time you aren't in combat, even in warfronts.

Respecs are really cheap.



Roles not souls.  Each callings has 8 souls plus 1 pvp soul.  You can save up to 5 (if purchased) configurations of those souls (these are called roles).
Xanthippe
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Reply #170 on: May 25, 2011, 12:29:55 PM

Yes, roles not souls.  Gack.  Sorry for the confusion.

Here's a feature I did not know about.  You can sell all your grey items at once at a vendor.  (Little button lower right vendor window).
Dren
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Reply #171 on: May 25, 2011, 01:34:25 PM

Yes, roles not souls.  Gack.  Sorry for the confusion.

Here's a feature I did not know about.  You can sell all your grey items at once at a vendor.  (Little button lower right vendor window).

Oh ho ho....thanks for that!
Redgiant
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Reply #172 on: June 06, 2011, 07:43:20 PM

Yes, roles not souls.  Gack.  Sorry for the confusion.

Here's a feature I did not know about.  You can sell all your grey items at once at a vendor.  (Little button lower right vendor window).

Oh ho ho....thanks for that!

Gah, I need to read the Rift threads more often, this alone saves me more time than anything.

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Draegan
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Reply #173 on: July 28, 2011, 09:12:18 AM

Finally updated my PC with an i5 2500K and a gtx560ti with 8gigs of RAM.

Finally able to play this game with the settings maxed and never get a slow down.  HK looks awesome in detail.
dd0029
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Reply #174 on: August 18, 2011, 12:27:17 PM

My new guild finished up all of the T1 content Tuesday night. The last bit of Alsebeth really needs some clown car music.

In all, I would say they are all well done, varied and interesting. Greenscale is probably the fight I enjoy the most, though as a bard I don't have a whole lot to do in a crucial way. Oracle and Infiltrator are probably the least interesting, but even they are not that bad. I like the fine line they tread between being forgiving of deaths and battle rezes, because they sure love their near one shots, and not letting the group coast on the strength of a couple of people.
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