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Azuredream
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Reply #210 on: March 29, 2011, 03:13:55 PM

One of the coolest things Rift made was giving Riftstalkers the ability Warlocks had in WoW (Demonic Portal).. you mark a spot on the ground, and then you have an ability that lets you teleport to that spot. It's so amazingly handy for things like LoS pulls. In fact the whole Riftstalker tree is amazingly cool, this tank that is ridiculously mobile and can port all over the battlefield.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Threash
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Reply #211 on: March 29, 2011, 04:01:48 PM

Last night we were struggling mightily on the third boss in greenscale for lack of a rogue tank.

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Draegan
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Reply #212 on: March 29, 2011, 04:48:42 PM

Oracle?  You don't need a rogue tank.

You need two tanks to swap on werewolf, someone to kite the other.  Get a few people to kill the pollen.  Thats phase 1.  Phase 2 is tank the werewolf in center, have ranged dps kill the pollen as they spawn in the four corners, everyone else on the boss.
Typhon
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Reply #213 on: March 30, 2011, 04:46:13 AM

I'd be thrilled if Warriors lose their role as the tank class.  What better shift from standard diku if clerics/rogues became the tanks, warriors became dps, and mages became healers. 

I'd like to see them add a mage melee class.  I tried to make Archon work, but just couldn't get it to do anything that other classes couldn't do much better, so I'd offer up Archon as a soul that could be sacrificed to make a "melee attacks proc shields"-type support class (partly stepping on what Chloro does, I guess).  Keep the auras!auras!auras! portion of the design.  I just love the dps+support classes that they've added to the game.
Ashamanchill
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Reply #214 on: March 30, 2011, 05:39:43 AM

Herald of Xotli?

A poster signed by Richard Garriot, Brad McQuaid, Marc Jacobs and SmerricK Dart.  Of course it would arrive a couple years late, missing letters and a picture but it would be epic none the less. -Tmon
Threash
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Reply #215 on: March 30, 2011, 07:11:55 AM

Herald of Xotli?

One of the most awesome classes in any game ever.

I am the .00000001428%
March
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Reply #216 on: April 06, 2011, 12:17:10 PM

Very fun Solo Melee Rogue build viable at level 33:

I call it the Ninja-Pirate build...  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

At level 33 you can spec into 27 Bladedancer / 17 Riftstalker / 0 Assassin thus: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MMVp..g0dGhoMkMb.Vcbhho

Besides the awesome Ninja Leap (aka Flash of Steel), you get two Phase-shift abilities that you essentially use as 15 sec Damage/Defense buffs.  If you avoid most of the Riftstalker "tank" abilities, you can load up on passives that you can almost always keep up: 15% damage reduction plus 15% Damage increase plus 15% Crit chance (after Phase shift)... also includes 30% Self-Heal + Energy regen (unused pips) - that you can manage by not using a finisher.

At level 36 you can add a 3rd Phase ability that can give you theoretical 100% up-time on your phase buffs... plus a great AoE combo.

I macro the AoE like this:  Shadow Blitz (45 sec cd - initiates buff), Rift Disturbance (8 sec cd - + debuff), Twin Strike (No cd + combo point generator).... AoE finisher as needed.
I macro the Single target like this: Reprisal (reactive), Precision Strike (10 sec cd), Quick Strike (no cd) - this is the "Follow-up" button to Keen Strike (which you can also bind Reprisal to, if you wish).

Minor nuances include a prep-fight to activate your 60-sec and 30-sec +Parry/Doge (+hit/crit) buffs

No stealth (until 40-ish), no pets, no wimpy fighting from afar, and definitely no singing... just good ol'fashioned leaping into the middle of a pack of enemies and spinning around to everyone else is dead.

There's just enough control and survivability to make the whirlwind fun to manage.

Anyhow, if you haven't already discovered this yourself, and are tired of the relentless monotony of the Ranger... give it a whirl.

Edit: attempt to fix link.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 12:19:44 PM by March »
Draegan
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Reply #217 on: April 06, 2011, 01:09:49 PM

Twin strike is terrible for AOE.  It only hits two targets. :(

I've got a level 50 BD/NB/Asn spec that is aces for dps in raids and experts.  There is also a pretty nifty melee ranger build too.
Zetor
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WWW
Reply #218 on: April 06, 2011, 01:24:51 PM

My champ/paragon is getting into the 40s now, and... wow, the pain train keeps picking up steam. Or something. It's not half bad damage in instances either, but maybe that'll change at 50.

Case in point, Shifting Blades* is pure  why so serious? when bursting healers / targets being healed in warfronts. Build up three APs, use Strike Like Iron, build up three APs quick again, use SB, use disruptive strike, rising waterfall, proper timing + titan's strike, follow up with random reactives. Chews through a healthbar and then some in 3 GCDs, stuns the target at the end, and healers can't really see it coming unless they keep an eye on the warrior's selfbuffs. Downside is needing about 10 seconds of face time with the target, but that's not as bad when the champion fear itself all-but-guarantees 6 seconds of that.

* Shifting Blades makes it so the next 3 attack abilities will do an additional 75% of their damage as a second attack; this stacks with the 48% damage increase from SLI and the 30% from enrage. It also works with a 2-hander (bug? feature), and the 3 attacks I listed all hit ridiculously hard to begin with.

Threash
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Reply #219 on: April 06, 2011, 01:39:04 PM

Deep paragon is fucking glorious.  A death touch powered by SLI, shifting blades and the auto crit on follow ups opener = about 3.5k damage.  The best part is you can do that vulcan neck thing and dance with them while you wait for death touch to go off.

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March
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Reply #220 on: April 06, 2011, 01:55:10 PM

Twin strike is terrible for AOE.  It only hits two targets. :(

I've got a level 50 BD/NB/Asn spec that is aces for dps in raids and experts.  There is also a pretty nifty melee ranger build too.

Might be neat at 50 for raids... but solo for levelling, NB at 33 as second spec just was not fun.

I'd be interested in melee ranger build... haven't looked at it seriously other than to wonder if wolf+melee might be possible.
Xanthippe
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Reply #221 on: April 16, 2011, 07:35:03 AM

Heart my rogue for solo exploring, artifact hunting and questing.  I usually use my ranger/bard/sab (high enough bard to get motif of regeneration and the good speed buff), and can switch out to assassin to stealth out of places.    I sometimes use my full bard in rift raid groups.  It's... disappointing.

I don't have a spec for groups.  I ran Realm of the Fae back when, and that's the only instance I've done (other than attempt Darkening Deeps solo - 3rd boss can't be soloed no matter the level due to cocoon mechanics).

Pvp is disappointing - I can play utility and that's about it. 

Port Scion, Codex and Whitefall Steppes, I can run my ranger/bard for speed buff, humanoid tracking, mediocre healing/dps.  Or stealth about as assassin and take down unwary mages and rogues at half health.  (I'm not a good assassin, too fumbly and slow).  I just don't know what to do in Black Garden. 

What are people doing at 50 for dps instance specs?  Nightblade?  Marksman?  I have an empty spec that I haven't decided on.  Or even pvp specs?
Xanthippe
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Reply #222 on: April 25, 2011, 07:00:56 AM

I went with the most popular pve rogue spec for marksman for my 4th soul.  MM/ranger/assassin.  Managed to put my damage up from 230ish to 330ish on the last boss in expert Kings Breach (according to a guildie's combat meter, at any rate), so it was a significant rise (although still unimpressive damage compared to others).  Anything I brought to the group as a bard was done better by the chloro and archon, so losing the bard part was not a problem.

My 4 specs now are:
assassin/riftblade/infiltrator for pvp or permastealth
ranger/bard/sab for solo exploring/tracking/farming
full bard for mediocre group healing/buffs, rarely use this unless support is needed
marksman/ranger/assassin for dps

Looking forward to the upcoming changes.
Threash
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Reply #223 on: April 25, 2011, 07:07:26 AM

Looking forward to the upcoming changes.

My warrior is too.  51 void knight is going to have a base 20% damage reduction vs melee and 30% vs spells, along with 50% extra armor, depending on what i do with my other 15 points and adding in the buff to pvp armor and valor and i am going to be a fucking rock in pvp.

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01101010
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Reply #224 on: April 25, 2011, 05:17:36 PM

I went with the most popular pve rogue spec for marksman for my 4th soul.  MM/ranger/assassin.  Managed to put my damage up from 230ish to 330ish on the last boss in expert Kings Breach (according to a guildie's combat meter, at any rate), so it was a significant rise (although still unimpressive damage compared to others).  Anything I brought to the group as a bard was done better by the chloro and archon, so losing the bard part was not a problem.

My 4 specs now are:
assassin/riftblade/infiltrator for pvp or permastealth
ranger/bard/sab for solo exploring/tracking/farming
full bard for mediocre group healing/buffs, rarely use this unless support is needed
marksman/ranger/assassin for dps

Looking forward to the upcoming changes.

Just for shits and giggles, are people experimenting with phys crit stacking and does that make a damn bit a difference in dmg output? I am genuinely curious since I have been stacking crit for the hell of it and my DoTs seem to crit more than not - I usually open with a Jagged, followed by a punc then rupture (5cp) and just watch the blood flow. Assassinate, sadly, does not crit as much as I'd hoped if I chose to open with it, however if it does, I can usually kill the mob as fast or a tick faster than bleeding them to death. And as always...I am Assassin build, had 51 but was less than impressed with Viper or Serpent or whatever the hell the 51 is.

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Azuredream
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Reply #225 on: April 25, 2011, 06:34:36 PM

I don't know much about rogues, but for warriors Crit is > AP by an extremely substantial margin, such that some warriors opt for leather with Crit and Dex instead of a plate piece with Str and AP. Conversely, SP is > Crit by a very large margin for mages. It's why you should always give the mages/clerics the red ball in a WF, SP is so much better than AP for the respective classes.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 04:43:53 PM by Azuredream »

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Threash
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Reply #226 on: April 25, 2011, 07:22:17 PM

Yeah, ap is freaking useless.  It is kinda depressing that to max my dps i should be wearing leather on my warrior.  I refuse to do it.

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Maledict
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Reply #227 on: April 26, 2011, 02:09:20 AM

Yeah, ap is freaking useless.  It is kinda depressing that to max my dps i should be wearing leather on my warrior.  I refuse to do it.

From what I have read this isn't actually true. You get the best result getting to around a 35% crit rate, and then stack AP as well as crit.

Yes, AP makes only a very small difference to your damage. But so did spellpower for casters in WoW when it first launched. the majority of players ignored it and stacked crit, and exactly the same happened - turns out you needed a good combination of both to do the best damage. (in fact turned out you needed spellpower above all else in WoW for some time!0.

Not saying that Ap is great, crit is bad, but some of the bets players out there are stacking both stats for PvE and not just crit.
Draegan
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Reply #228 on: April 26, 2011, 06:46:23 AM

I went with the most popular pve rogue spec for marksman for my 4th soul.  MM/ranger/assassin.  Managed to put my damage up from 230ish to 330ish on the last boss in expert Kings Breach (according to a guildie's combat meter, at any rate), so it was a significant rise (although still unimpressive damage compared to others).  Anything I brought to the group as a bard was done better by the chloro and archon, so losing the bard part was not a problem.

My 4 specs now are:
assassin/riftblade/infiltrator for pvp or permastealth
ranger/bard/sab for solo exploring/tracking/farming
full bard for mediocre group healing/buffs, rarely use this unless support is needed
marksman/ranger/assassin for dps

Looking forward to the upcoming changes.

Just for shits and giggles, are people experimenting with phys crit stacking and does that make a damn bit a difference in dmg output? I am genuinely curious since I have been stacking crit for the hell of it and my DoTs seem to crit more than not - I usually open with a Jagged, followed by a punc then rupture (5cp) and just watch the blood flow. Assassinate, sadly, does not crit as much as I'd hoped if I chose to open with it, however if it does, I can usually kill the mob as fast or a tick faster than bleeding them to death. And as always...I am Assassin build, had 51 but was less than impressed with Viper or Serpent or whatever the hell the 51 is.

Stack crit to around 35-40% unbuffed.  After than point it's up for debate.  Myself I have 40% self buffed, and then I started stacking AP.  That's on my rogue btw.

Edit: AP is far from worthless.  Especially in 1.2 where many abilities are going to be doubling the AP coefficient value.
Nebu
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Reply #229 on: April 26, 2011, 07:21:53 AM

Any idea how I'm supposed to gear a shaman?  It's making me crazy.  Ok, that and keeping two sets of separate gear.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Draegan
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Reply #230 on: April 26, 2011, 07:31:12 AM

Any idea how I'm supposed to gear a shaman?  It's making me crazy.  Ok, that and keeping two sets of separate gear.

I think it's Wis > Spell Crit > Spell Power but I'm not 100% sure.  I'll check with some experts.

Nebu
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Reply #231 on: April 26, 2011, 09:31:22 AM

I think it's Wis > Spell Crit > Spell Power but I'm not 100% sure.  I'll check with some experts.

Shaman is a melee cleric.  Were it an inquisitor, I'd agree with you.  See what the pros have to say.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Threash
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Reply #232 on: April 26, 2011, 09:41:27 AM

I think shaman want crit above all.

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Nebu
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Reply #233 on: April 26, 2011, 09:58:51 AM

I think shaman want crit above all.

Time to start making myself a set of leather gear then. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Draegan
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Reply #234 on: April 26, 2011, 10:08:09 AM

All melee clerics have mechanics that convert Spell Power to Attack Power and Spell Crit to Melee crit.  You gain more from wis that str/dex.  Stack cleric gear, not leather.

If you go caster, some cloth may actually help in some situations.
Nebu
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Reply #235 on: April 26, 2011, 10:11:30 AM

All melee clerics have mechanics that convert Spell Power to Attack Power and Spell Crit to Melee crit.  You gain more from wis that str/dex.  Stack cleric gear, not leather.

If you go caster, some cloth may actually help in some situations.

I had no idea that this was the case.  Thank you for the info!

Now I just need people on Dimroot to log in and run some dungeons with me before I'm forced to level a 4th toon to 50.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Draegan
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Reply #236 on: April 26, 2011, 10:19:56 AM

Yeah when you play with a Justicar/Shaman/Druid check your buffs and it'll show up.  (At least there used to be a buff that stated the conversion)
Rasix
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Reply #237 on: June 01, 2011, 08:56:36 AM

So is this build completely bonkers?  Ranger/NB/Assassin

Trying to think of a ranger build that doesn't necessarily include marksman.  Very little wasted points I see here (some in assassin), but I'm open to suggestions.

Also open to suggestions on fun rogue dps builds I can try when I start doing dungeon runs at 50.

-Rasix
luckton
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Reply #238 on: June 01, 2011, 09:01:48 AM

So is this build completely bonkers?  Ranger/NB/Assassin

Trying to think of a ranger build that doesn't necessarily include marksman.  Very little wasted points I see here (some in assassin), but I'm open to suggestions.

Also open to suggestions on fun rogue dps builds I can try when I start doing dungeon runs at 50.

Certainly not bad.  You've got all the standard ranged-talent options from Assassin, and your NB choices are sound.  If you don't mind Marksman, Sozu's Ranger guide pretty much sums up extreme Ranger play nicely.

For some fun, here's a neat Saboteur build.

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Draegan
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Reply #239 on: June 01, 2011, 10:37:10 AM

Both are average builds, but not great.

Best PVE spec for Rogues:

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MTVM.VcMcyb0o0o.VV0A0c.0VRcxzb

Rotation:
5x Spike Charge
Deadly Strike
Puncture
Detonate
5x Shrapnel Charge
Detonate

Repeat.

You can vary in Blast Charge for Shrapnel  Charge if you have to avoid AOEing.  This is a melee dps build, but can also pass for a ranged build in a pinch, but Deadly Strike is key to this build.

Essentially you're getting up Deadly Strike's buff Deadly Dance that super buffs your next combo point generating abilities.  You then use Puncture to gather up 2CP.  Now your detonate will detonate all 5 charges at almost double the damage and do 2CPs worth of Detonate damage.  The Deadly Dance buff will last through you putting up 5 Shrapnel's up so you only have to do it every other rotation.

Plus you get auto attack damage.

There are a few variations to this, taking points out of Ambidextrous for Blade Tempo and +Poison Damage in the Assassin tree (+Poison damage increases base charge damage)

This build will probably get nerfed, but I can sustain 1.8-2k dps in full T3 gear + relics

They key here is also to create macros for all of your charges.  

Code:
#show Spike Charge
cast Spike Charge
startattack

This is because autoattack bugs out and sometimes stops.  This lets you keep attacking.

--------------------

If you want something more complicated that can put out more dps in more complicated boss encounters that require movement, use the Impale/Assassin build:

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MNiM.qMcf0ckckmz.c.bqRcxof0d0R

Your rotation will look something like this:

You will have a build macro like this:
Code:
#show Backstab
petcast Rend
petcast razor lash
petcast bloodied blow
cast puncture
cast backstab
cast savage strike
cast quick Shot

You will also have to take off your pet attacks from autofire.  The reason is that the pet's AI doesn't shoot them off whenever they are off GCD.  Also you want to cast Rend all the time because it stacks and the stacks will run off if you don't do it yourself.

Quick Shot is in there so when you have to move you can keep spamming your attack macro and fire off quick shot.

You can also make another macro if you want, to help manage your pet.

Code:
cast Quick Shot
petpassive

Which essentially allows you to shoot Quick Shot without the pet attacking and having him run back to you.

You're main build macro will be accompanied by four finishers:
Head Shot (+5% Damage)
Baneful Touch (+50% Poison proc damage)
Impale (DOT damage)
Final Blow

You will also need to keep Fiery Spike up, as it provides around 200-300 dps if you can sustain it.

This build is very hard and a large pain in the ass.

Your rotation looks something like this:
Backstab -> Puncture -> Fiery Spike -> Impale
Fiery Spike -> SS -> SS -> SS -> SS -> Head Shot

Then repeat Backstabs/SS's and reapply Impale/Puncture as they fade from the boss, and don't clip them.  But more importantly you have to reapply Fiery Spike after each finisher, or you will lose DPS.

What makes this build so well is Spotter's Order: http://rift.zam.com/en/ability/812882124/Spotter%27s-Order

This warrior ability which adds 43 damage to every single attack.  That's every pet attack, every bleed, every dot, everything.  This build really excells in raids mostly.  The sab build above works for EVERYTHING, from dungeons to T3.


Also this Impale Ranger build is great for AOE.  ShadowFire + Trick Shot is pretty devastating, but perhaps not as much as Sabo.

--

The sab build is really the best for over all AOE and single target.  If both builds above are not to your liking, there are some other builds that are somewhat close at the expert dungeon level and entry raid level.  The best of the rest is 27 BD spec

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0MViM.Vi0A0s0o0b.VhxzhoM.0VRcxob

Which is a really easy build to play.  It requires 3 keys:

Standard Build Macro (1pt builder)

Code:
#show Blade Tempo
suppressmacrosfailure
cast Backstab
cast Quick Strike
cast Keen Strike
cast Weapon Barrage
cast Blade Tempo
cast Fiery Blade

Then your 2pt Builder

Code:
#show Precision Strike
suppressmacrosfailure
cast Puncture
cast Precision Strike
cast Dusk Strike

Ebon Fury Macro
Code:
#show Ebon Fury
suppressmacrosfailure
cast Ebon Fury
cast Dusk Strike
cast Weapon Barrage

Remember never to use Blade Tempo and Ebon fury at the same time.  BT is physical damage, and Dusk Strike is death damage.  

Open with:
2pt Macro - Fiery Spike -  Fiery Spike - 1pt Macro - Deadly Strike

Then it's:

2pt Macro, Fiery Spike, 1pt 1pt -> DS

Use Ebon Fury macro when it's up.

------------

There are other builds you can play around with, but ranged Ranger/Marksman is 2nd class if you care about doing the most dps.  They're not terrible, but not great.  Ranger is pretty simple.  Essentially Ranger/MM/NB and you just spam quick shot (using 1/3 augmented so the bleed never clips itself) and keeping Shadow Fire up.  If you don't like the pet, go full MM/NB(or Asn)/Ranger.  But you'll always be doing about 70-80% of your melee counterpart.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 10:42:18 AM by Draegan »
Dren
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Reply #240 on: June 01, 2011, 12:58:51 PM

I'll have to try that for Rogues.  I'm currently using a Ranger/MM/Bard setup and that works quite well for leveling.  I've done the other classes to the 20-30 lvl range and this has been the easiest/fastest by far.  I rarely die or have to drink. 
Draegan
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Reply #241 on: June 01, 2011, 01:37:01 PM

Leveling is a different animal.  Anything usually works.  BD/Asn/RS is usually the best.
squirrel
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Reply #242 on: June 02, 2011, 02:56:56 PM

Cool gonna try that sab build for PvE - currently using an older ranger build but I don't love it.

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Stabs
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Reply #243 on: June 02, 2011, 05:38:46 PM

Any idea how I'm supposed to gear a shaman?  It's making me crazy.  Ok, that and keeping two sets of separate gear.

I go Shaman sometimes and this is how I would prioritise stats:

1) Focus (if you're 50). Apart from anything else Focus is your "can I join you guys?" stat, if your focus is low people won't want to group with you. 50 for T1, 100 for T2 and 150 for t3 are acceptable although ymmv. It's also the best number crunching stat until cap. Cap in t3s is around 220, in other instances it's lower. To check if you're capped use ACT and open up the stats on your name to see your miss rate.

2) Next figure out a trade-off between spell crit and spell power. The game weights spell crit at about double spell power, so an item with +10 spell power will be comparable to an item with about +20 spell crit. It's probably worth going with that. 2 spell crit is probably the same usefulness as 1 spell power because shamans have a lot of innate crit (so you get less use out of the stat compared to other classes). So 1 spell power = 2 spell crit is a good basis to figure out your stat weightings.

After you have your sp:sc ratio the thinking part is over and the rest is just data entry. 1 Wisdom gives 0.75 sp. 1 Int gives 1.0 spell crit and 0.25 sp.

So
1 spellpower is worth 1.0
1 Wisdom = 0.75 spellpower and is worth 0.75
I Int = 1.0 spell crit and 0.25 sp and is worth 1.0/2 + .25 = 0.75
1 spell crit is worth 0.5

Wisdom and Int also have mana affects but you should never have mana issues so I've disregarded those. Even if you only have Ageless Ice you should be ok for mana and I doubt many people would build a Shaman without putting 10 in another soul with a mana restore.

It will vary depending on your spec and gear. For instance some Shamans take the +20% crit damage bonus talent from Sentinel and from Inquisitor which gives a total of +60% extra crit damage. If you have that Big Crit build then adjust spell crit up a little higher in the stat weighting, maybe 1 sp : 1.8 sc.

Physical stats have identical worth to the magical stats they correspond to, so 1 physical crit = 1 spell crit. (Unless you are also using spells, for instance if you have Inquisitor in your build).

PS: if you're not 50 yet use the same gear for everything. Just swap weapons. No need to min/max because the 1 spell power : 2 spell crit ratio is close to optimal for every soul (tank healer melee dps and caster dps). You don't need two sets of gear before 50.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 05:46:34 PM by Stabs »
Rasix
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Reply #244 on: June 06, 2011, 12:06:30 PM

Justicars are absolutely hilarious.  Clerics may be a bit boring at low levels but goddamn, this soul is damn near unkillable.

-Rasix
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