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Author Topic: Soul opinions  (Read 22445 times)
Threash
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on: February 23, 2011, 06:05:51 PM

Rogue:

Saboteurs are incredibly good in pvp.  You can bring someone from around 75% hps to dead in a single ability.  This is because all the damage from their combo point builders is not applied until you use their finisher, giving you the damage of six abilities instantly.  Not that great at overall dps but their burst is unmatched.  Both the ranged souls are very good, combined or alone, specially backed up by very useful zero point abilities from riftstalker or saboteur.  Assassin is surprisingly middle of the pack, you can reach the perma stealth talent (at 21 points) only picking generic passive buff talents that can apply to any other soul, they are likely to be a favorite of gankers and receive much hate as result.  Nightblade is really good for a 12 point dip for all melee classes, i did not explore it as a main soul though.  The bard is special, you will not feel very powerful individually but having you around makes everyone else much more effective.  A single bard was sometimes enough to turn the tide in a warfront, when i wanted to grind favor i respecced to bard and had a much higher winning %.  I didn't really play around with the blade dancer or riftstalker and the pvp soul seemed extremely underwhelming at 5 points.


Warrior:

Riftblades are gods upon the lands of Telara, smite thy puny foes with thy mighty flame spear and watch them tremble in despair.  Void knight = if it has mana they are your bitch.  One strong benefit of both classes is that their main damage abilities are not weapon based so they can use a shield without giving up any offense, making paladin a very strong combination for both.  Champions are extremely mobile with very good damage, very fun class to play.  They are supposed to be the 2h specialist but a lot of their talents can easily apply to any weapon combination which also makes them a strong second soul.  The paragon is the dual wield soul, they are surprisingly very defensive while still having good damage.  Only played around with the reaver, beastmaster and warlord souls for a very short time but i was not very impressed with any of them.


Cleric:

I played around with Shaman and Justicar in the early betas and they impressed me enough to almost make me pick a healer as my class for the first time in an MMO.  Since i hear they've been nerfed a bit, i don't know how good they still are.  The cleric pvp soul is EXTREMELY good for a five point investment.  You have a detaunt (50% less damage from one target as long as you dont hit them), 15% less chance of being critted, and a wow pvp trinket power on a 5 min cd.  As a healer those first five points alone make you extremely hard to bring down by anything short of 3 or more dps.


Mage:

Did not play them at all, word is they are fairly underwhelming at this point.  It seemed like in some warfronts the rogue necro pets were the only thing that could kick my ass though.

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Sky
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Reply #1 on: February 23, 2011, 06:13:11 PM

Reaver can be insidious in pvp. If you can plague out a stack of DoTs to a bunch of enemies while your team is wailing away at them, it's pretty awesome. Wish they had more lifetap abilities, though the AE lifetap is decent. But those DoTs can stack up to a really stiff tick of damage, especially when you plop on an explosive infestation.

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Reply #2 on: February 23, 2011, 07:03:31 PM

Reaver paired with Riftblade was a really powerful combination.  Three ranged attacks, self-healing, and the area DoTs sky mentions.

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Ghambit
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Reply #3 on: February 23, 2011, 07:07:27 PM

Anyone get to try the Dominator?
The gameplay centered around that soul kinda suits my fancy.  They seem to be the kings of CC.

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kildorn
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Reply #4 on: February 23, 2011, 07:14:45 PM

I will add that reaver with a dip into riftblade (because seriously, no warrior pvps without flame spear at a trivial number of points in) is a hilarious pvp pressure combo. Mostly because your survival scales with the number of targets nearby, so it's a hellishly good disruption build. You won't outright kill anyone, but you'll put their entire team on defense in 2-3 globals.
Threash
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Reply #5 on: February 23, 2011, 07:57:08 PM

Whole lot of love for the reaver, interesting.

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Lantyssa
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Reply #6 on: February 23, 2011, 08:54:05 PM

Well, I love the Shadow Knight / Dark Templar / Blood DK life-drain style of warrior to begin with.  Couple the AoE effectiveness with the Riftblade's single target dps and it just works wonders.

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kildorn
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Reply #7 on: February 23, 2011, 09:31:41 PM

Whole lot of love for the reaver, interesting.

The other tanks are terrible in pvp, minus the VK running around mauling people due to a bugged talent thing. Which is fixed.

The only trick paladins have is a low tier full heal with a 10m cooldown. VKs are cute but entirely enemy team action based, so you're stuck hoping a mage picks you as a target for some reason or they're all caster heavy (which is unlikely, because mages are TERRIBLE in pvp right now)

Reavers are the one stop shop for self healing, universal pressure on clumps, and a very sneaky backloaded burst skill in Infection.

edit: LOOOOOL, the zam builder has the "live"/alpha skills up now. Riftblade's flamespear had it's dot removed.. and it's up front damage increased by about 20%. Which is pretty much completely missing the problem with flame spear and making riftblades that much more hilarious bullshit.

I predict 50% warriors, 30% rogues on release.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 09:40:04 PM by kildorn »
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Reply #8 on: February 23, 2011, 09:51:33 PM

Paladins get Shield Charge that makes you fly to the enemy once every 15seconds - that's not to be discounted as a perfect gap closer.  Unless other souls have something like that too.  Combine it with the 3sec stun soul ability and that's pretty nice.  I could see a Paladin/Reaver/Riftblade combo, but I suspect that to be competitive in PvP upper ranks you'll want a few of the PvP tree points.
kildorn
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Reply #9 on: February 23, 2011, 10:26:17 PM

The PVP tree has a charge functionality as well (on the dps side), and a leap baseline.

Riftblades also have a summon at the top of their tree, and I believe VKs have something along the lines of a summon.
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Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 10:50:07 PM

I've been thinking about using druid in a healing cleric build as a tertiary soul (warden/sentinel being the other two). It seems to have a very powerful mana regen ability* in fae hammer, and a good CC in slumber.

Yeah, you need to melee stuff for 10 sec to get mana back. That's not as hard as it sounds, imo, especially since warden and sentinel have a truckload of instant heals [warden has mostly HOTs too, so you can afford to 'waste' some time meleeing during a lower-damage phase or something]. In pvp you can beat on pets, or enemy players (who may just be ignoring you, since an oom cleric is worse than a dead-and-soon-rezzing cleric).

Anyone get to try the Dominator?
The gameplay centered around that soul kinda suits my fancy.  They seem to be the kings of CC.
I played a dominator at the low 20s. It's useless in solo pve, not very useful in groups (yeah, you can cc two mobs... but you could also spec into a damage-dealing build and still be able to cc a mob with 0 points in dom). Where it shines is pvp, specifically destroying healers. 30 second cooldown mana burn that also kills regen (works on energy and rage too!), a spammable mana burn channeled spell, instant reliable CC you can switch between enemies to avoid DRs, a very strong ranged [!] 50% healing debuff, and up to 4 different long CCs at max level. Oh yeah, the mana burns don't break CC either, so you can drain a cleric completely dry without him being able to do anything; this is something that WOW fixed back in BC.

You'd probably want one [and just one] dominator in high-level organized pvp.

edit: even though VKs and riftblades kind of overshadow other warrior specs in pvp right now, champion looks very strong. 30sec cooldown (undispellable?) pbaoe fear with no target cap, 15sec cooldown knockback, 6sec cooldown interrupt (kind of standard, but still), 30 second cooldown disarm/root/snare/stun break, forced crit every 30 sec, bladestorm with CC immunity every 2 mins, and most importantly a (undispellable?) 15sec 50% mortal strike every time they crit (wording of the ability suggests it works with aoe, so use the forced-crit with the aforementioned bladestorm?).
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 10:58:56 PM by Zetor »

Threash
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Reply #11 on: February 24, 2011, 04:45:50 AM


Riftblades also have a summon at the top of their tree, and I believe VKs have something along the lines of a summon.

Rfitblades have a cc breaking shadowstep that roots the target for 2s, VKs have the wow dk pull.  Both are on 45s cooldowns if you talent them, but riftblades have a weapon buff that refreshes the cd on both each time you crit.

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Reply #12 on: February 24, 2011, 08:06:31 AM

Kildorn, remember it may be difficult for some people to discuss the reasons behind their statements  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

As I said, the reaver is insidious. Not straight-out badass. If someone charges your clump (I like that word) and you lay into them with dots and send them on their way with explosive infestation, they run back to a cleric an BLAM explode and damage everyone around them. Or if they run back early or if you are charging their position, spread the dots with plague. It's not as in your face as most AE attacks, if you're attacking the main target, it might be a few seconds before others realize the dots are spreading through the group.

And with some paladin you get the survivability to head back to the healers to top off/cure - while you're also getting a very minor HoT from the dots...which also spreads so you can stack the HoT six times or whatever they finalized it with.

Still, I think my Paladin/Warlord/Reaver was probably the most effective in pvp. The dots weren't as scary, but survivability was through the roof, tons of hp and armor, and a couple options for stuns and interrupts to deal with casters.

kildorn
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Reply #13 on: February 24, 2011, 08:40:08 AM

explosive infestation is gone, by the by. Removed with the alpha notes :(

Didn't realize Paladins had a self HoT though, that would stack well with a reaver. Mostly I stacked RB on Reaver for both the spammable spike builder (flamespear) and a ranged finisher (Fire Burst), since the Reaver's actual AP users seemed lame.

I'm torn, since I loved my beta stormcaller, but on a pure functionality note, my beta Reaver was far more useful and effective in everything.
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Reply #14 on: February 24, 2011, 08:44:53 AM

No, I was talking about Reaver's talented HoT component to soul sickness.

They removed explosive infestation? To be honest, that's pretty typical.  Ohhhhh, I see.

Chorulle
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Reply #15 on: February 24, 2011, 05:40:50 PM

Not many comments on mages so I will throw my two cents in from beta.  A mix of Necro / Warlock / Chloro is actually pretty solid all around.  For DPS just go heavy necro and warlock, only taking abilities in the warlock soul that synergize well (i.e. % increases to damage, etc, since you won't really be using the warlock spells themselves much).  I would put in at least one point early on to Chloro to unlock withering vine.  The damage it does is not that impressive, but AE healing it does helps on the contribution charts for rifts.

For a healing spec, flip it around and go deep Chloro and warlock again (you can probably get about 20 points into warlock without taking anything that applies only to them).  I never main healed as a Chloro, but I can see them being capable of it given the spells.  Kind of nice having healers that heal via DPS.

For PvP, there is a soul you can unlock with enough favor points (Archmage).  Never got to that point (not sure if it is level locked or just need enough currency to buy it, wasn't really paying attention).  I imagine you could swap it in for Chloro or Necro respectively in the above specs for improved survivability.  The little PvP that I did made me pretty much just run and gun, flinging instant cast dots on everything in range and putting the pet on whoever had the flag.  Of course, you can't really get the rogue pet till around level 22 or so your stuck until then watching the tank pet be useless.

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Reply #16 on: February 24, 2011, 06:34:30 PM

I've heard, second-hand mind you, that Pyro/Dominator, or Warlock/Dominator, are decent in PvP, but I never got around to trying them out, as I was more than happy to watch the green numbers float up all over my screen on my Bard.

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Threash
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Reply #17 on: February 24, 2011, 06:35:54 PM

Dunno what exactly they did to the riftblade but the damage is not as out of control as before, not walking gods anymore.

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Soukyan
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Reply #18 on: February 24, 2011, 06:43:38 PM

Dunno what exactly they did to the riftblade but the damage is not as out of control as before, not walking gods anymore.

They decreased damage across the board on most of their abilities in the last phase of beta. Including flame spear.

I'm not a fan of nerfs, but they did adjust it in beta, and at least they are paying attention. I was shredding people in PvP as a Riftblade. It was fun for a bit, but definitely unbalanced.

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Threash
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Reply #19 on: February 24, 2011, 07:08:53 PM

The funny thing is at level 13 my aoe instant damage + interrupt finisher now does more damage than my single target dot finisher.

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FatuousTwat
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Reply #20 on: February 24, 2011, 08:34:36 PM

Not going to be playing this, but +1 to sabo and bard.

I was regularly getting top healing with bard even when I was 30 in the 30-40 warfront, there is a chain of abilities you can use (one gives you 5 marks instantly, another makes it so those marks don't go away for something like 15 seconds, and then the coda of restoration) where you can spam an instant 300 hp raid heal over and over. With the saboteur I would get 30~ killing blows and huge damage rounds while barely being damaged, because who gives a fuck about the guy standing in the back waving his arms around, doing no damage? All of your abilities being instants gives you a ton of mobility. Also, annihilation bomb + its upgrade means 2000 damage crits to 10(?) people at level 30 or so. I went full charges, no bombs(except for annihilation), but I have heard either is good.

This all might have changed in the release patch, I haven't been following it.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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Reply #21 on: February 25, 2011, 07:17:04 AM

Ok, I made a Purifier/sentinel/warden last night and the class feels way overpowered.  I don't do much damage, but I'm nearly impossible to kill and almost never run out of power.  I think the power consumption and regen rates for clerics are broken.  My cleric can spam spells nonstop and never go below half power while my mage goes through a bar every 3 mobs.  Will be interesting to see what gets adjusted after the first month. 

Any suggestions on cleric builds for healing?  I had originally planned to be a healer/ranged cleric but that seems inefficient with regard to power usage.  Melee + healer seems a better combination. 

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Reply #22 on: February 25, 2011, 07:25:12 AM

I am working on Druid/Warden/Shaman.  It's a mostly melee solo build but Warden 0pt hot, 2pt heal+hot, and druids insta heal (and faerie pet heal bot) lets me heal semi-effectively in public groups.  Mind you I was only 11 while the mobs were 17-20.  I've managed to save people's asses while I see them being ganked solo, and working with other clerics in public groups (there seem to be a lot of them) few people die as long as the raid isn't split across the damn map (which seems to be a problem).  I don't die, ever, or even close, unless elite mobs want to hurt the healer.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 07:26:44 AM by Bzalthek »

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Reply #23 on: February 25, 2011, 07:26:25 AM

I'm still sticking to my warden/sentinel/druid build for pve healing (will have to decide if I ditch sentinel or druid for templar in pvp). You get a pet for the first 30 levels, powerful HOTs and instants (mobility > all imo), good mana regen, a CC and a silence (see my previous post). I'm not convinced that putting more than 34 points into warden is a worthwhile payoff, as it just gives even more aoe heals [which the sentinel points help with]. Not linking a specific build, but I'm shooting for

warden: 34 [most of the main heals]
sentinel: 21 [this gets the pain suppression ability, the big single target heal, the silence, and the passive damage reduction for the entire group]
druid: 11 [this gets the slumber CC and fae hammer]

caveat: it might turn out that the 36-point 'dump your points into this tree' passive abilities will make it requisite to put 51 points into a tree to get good healing throughput. We'll see...

edit: as for leveling, I'm putting all points in warden, extra points in druid - mana regen and the CC will be more important early than the % buffs to healing that don't become significant until later levels with good gear IMO. I can kill 3-4 mobs at a time and tank an elite mob per rift (which almost always happens, sigh). Waterjet is my primary damage spell and it's OP!  awesome, for real
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 07:28:54 AM by Zetor »

Nebu
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Reply #24 on: February 25, 2011, 07:36:11 AM

Waterjet is my primary damage spell and it's OP!  awesome, for real

Is it op?  I've found that when I first approach a mob, I try all of my dd's to see which the most has the worst resistance toward.  I'm starting to wonder if water is just the damage type the least mobs are resistant to. 

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Reply #25 on: February 25, 2011, 07:38:05 AM

Nah, it's not really OP... but it's surprisingly effective for a spell that's instant cast, spammable, and has a negligible mana cost. It probably doesn't scale as well with spellpower as traditional nukes, but it's amusing to basically 'moonfire spam' the enemies down.

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Reply #26 on: February 25, 2011, 07:56:07 AM

Is it op?  I've found that when I first approach a mob, I try all of my dd's to see which the most has the worst resistance toward.  I'm starting to wonder if water is just the damage type the least mobs are resistant to. 
Most normal mobs don't have resistances to spell types. Leading to much frustration as an Inquisitor as I'd been leading with a debuff that didn't work on pretty much anything but a boss mob. (because you can't debuff past 0)

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Reply #27 on: February 25, 2011, 08:28:22 AM

What should I pair with sabateur if I want to stick with it as a leveling spec?  Ranger and something else?  Does poison now affect charge damage?

The combination I have going right now is pretty terrible, so I'll likely be changing up as soon as I can get some new souls.

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Reply #28 on: February 25, 2011, 08:45:21 AM

For sab I would grab nightblade for the improved finishing move talent and some of their other tricks. Then maybe marksman or hunter for some more instant ranged damage or riftstalker for the ports and some of their other tricks including extra durability.
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Reply #29 on: February 25, 2011, 09:00:07 AM

Most normal mobs don't have resistances to spell types. Leading to much frustration as an Inquisitor as I'd been leading with a debuff that didn't work on pretty much anything but a boss mob. (because you can't debuff past 0)

Ah.  Thanks for that.  Looks like debuffers are much more valuable in pvp than pve. 

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Reply #30 on: February 25, 2011, 09:01:14 AM

I went same route as in Beta -- MM/Ranger/Sab for PvE (does OK in PvP but with reduction in MM damage no longer drops people anywhere near as fast). MM feels more in line with other souls now in terms of DPS.

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Reply #31 on: February 25, 2011, 11:24:25 AM

What should I pair with sabateur if I want to stick with it as a leveling spec?  Ranger and something else?  Does poison now affect charge damage?

The combination I have going right now is pretty terrible, so I'll likely be changing up as soon as I can get some new souls.

The ranger pet is pretty invaluable.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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Reply #32 on: February 25, 2011, 12:16:36 PM

What should I pair with sabateur if I want to stick with it as a leveling spec?  Ranger and something else?  Does poison now affect charge damage?

The combination I have going right now is pretty terrible, so I'll likely be changing up as soon as I can get some new souls.

Ranger for the 0 pt pet, for sure.  I like Riftstalker, personally.  The teleport has saved my hide innumerable times. 

As fas as poison goes, afaik, if you're throwing bombs/charges from range, then no, it's not going to do anything. 

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Reply #33 on: February 25, 2011, 01:04:43 PM

I'm running MM/Assass/Ranger 0p, seems to work pretty good so far.

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Reply #34 on: February 25, 2011, 03:41:24 PM

Regarding soul points distribution: ok, of course you can plan your characters with the available builders, but what about the distribution while playing, before a final respec? Do you mostly concentrate on what you consider your "main" soul, or you plan out a more or less precise path, mixing up the distribution among all three souls?

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