Dragon Age 2 - Here be spoilers.

[stray]

I think she only tells the story to lady wardens. So if you've never been a lady, that would explain it.

Ah. Yeah, I've never played one. I've been meaning to do a City Elf though. That seems like the coolest origin for a female.

There's a hilarious line you get to say to King Cailan if you're a city elf and the end to your origin story is a bit bloody.  His reaction is priceless.

I need a character that kills Loghain too. I happen to like him, but I figured that type of character would do it, since he's dealing with slavers.

[Lantyssa]

My City Elf let him live, but it wasn't because she was being nice.  Death was too easy an out.

[stray]

My City Elf let him live, but it wasn't because she was being nice.  Death was too easy an out.

Interesting. I kind of see him as Darth Vader. He's redeemable. I regret taking him to Return to Ostagar though. He's still an unapologetic dick!

[Sjofn]

My city elves just want him dead. They actually were cool with being a Grey Warden (sure as shit beat being a fuckin' city elf), so there was no goddamn way the dude who very nearly had their dad shipped off to Tevinter to be a slave was getting out of that Landsmeet alive.

[stray]

My city elves just want him dead. They actually were cool with being a Grey Warden (sure as shit beat being a fuckin' city elf), so there was no goddamn way the dude who very nearly had their dad shipped off to Tevinter to be a slave was getting out of that Landsmeet alive.

Yeah, I could definitely see it that way.

I'm sure a lot of people kill him either way, but umm.. meta gaming wise, I think a Human Noble would probably grow up with inspiring stories about Loghain. They'd be pissed, but I think confused too. Alistair is a bit different because he's had a peasant upbringing, and became attached to Duncan like a father figure. As far my character was concerned, I didn't care to join the Wardens in the first place. Duncan is cool, but I'd prefer if parents weren't killed, and Duncan didn't cockblock me out of finding my brother. There's kind of a funny line in Ostagar when you meet Ser Jory, and I'm like.. "Dude, you're an idiot. Being a Warden sucks", and he gets mad, acting how much he's done to get their approval.

[Ingmar]

He was also conspiring with Howe, so...

Really I think the dwarves are the ones where I'm most likely to say whatever, let him live.

[stray]

He was also conspiring with Howe, so...

Really I think the dwarves are the ones where I'm most likely to say whatever, let him live.

I was going to add more about that.

I'm confused about Howe too. Notice how Delilah and Nathaniel don't understand what came over him. It could just be the ignorance of children, but there might be something to that.

When you meet Flemeth, she slips in a few comments that instantly villainize Loghain.. and how you must deal with him before the darkspawn. Then, when you get to Lothering, Morrigan thinks all of Alistair's suggestions are a waste of time and wants to go straight after Loghain. Both her and mother strangely want him out of the picture. It makes me wonder if they did something to him and Howe. Even Loghain doesn't exactly have a clear answer wtf came over him. He wants to redeem himself. He had misgivings about Cailan (some justified), but it's possible that the witch played into that.

And to say she had nothing to do with it begs the question: Why and how did she know to rescue you and Alistair? She was planning to get near the archdemon all along, as Morrigan finally says at the end.

[tmp]

He was also conspiring with Howe, so...

Really I think the dwarves are the ones where I'm most likely to say whatever, let him live.

If i'm not mistaken it's the dwarf noble that lets Loghain live in the pre-generated playthroughs you can import at the start of DA2 so yeah, that seems about right.

[stray]

"I am a fly in the ointment. I am a whisper in the shadows."

She definitely did something to Loghain.


That's another reason why I like my mage who sides with Templars. Fuck Flemeth.   She sends Hawke subliminal messages too, telling him to embrace destiny and "only when you leap will you learn if you can fly".

My Warden spared Loghain, told Flemeth she was going to dance to my own song, and then sold her book to Bodhan. My Hawke thinks Meredith is kind of hot.

[Sjofn]

Pretty sure whatever Flemeth is up to, she's planned it so it would be very, very, very hard for her to "lose." You making your little decisions are cute, but she can roll with whatever you do. Because Flemeth is fucking awesome.

[stray]

You making your little decisions are cute, but she can roll with whatever you do.

Haha.. I know, it's sad, right? 

But if she ever reveals herself, I'd be happy if I was right. Like, at least I'll pat myself on the back for not getting duped this or that time.

[Ingmar]

Odds are Bodahn works for her anyway, and we know she's been checking in on Sandal.

[Sjofn]

Man, I'm dumb. Bodhan working for her makes so much sense, and I never found him even the tiniest bit suspicious. Been too busy eyeing Sandal, I suppose.

[stray]

Odds are Bodahn works for her anyway, and we know she's been checking in on Sandal.

Damn. I've never tried kicking Bodhan out of Hawke's pad. I wonder if should try that. He's been using Blood Magic the whole time!


Here's another thing. Game mechanics themselves encourage me to play another way. Play a Hawke who doesn't embrace their destiny, and skip the Champion armor. Best robes in the game are oddly Chantry robes - the Robes of Unblemished Cleaniliness. :D Best Staff is Malcolm's Andraste staff. And for some odd reason, the High Dragon drops the best gloves. Plain old "Gauntlets". I wonder why they'd even bother with that at that stage in the game, unless they catering to weird players like me.

[stray]

Wait a second. You're not joking. Doesn't Sandal say something about how he keeps seeing some scary old lady? There was never a quest about it though.

[Ingmar]

Yeah, I'm not really joking - the game never spells anything out explicitly there, but it makes sense I think.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, Sandal talks about the scary lady with the scary laugh, and Bodhan is all "There's no lady. Yeesh."

DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNN

[stray]

Yeah, I'm not really joking - the game never spells anything out explicitly there, but it makes sense I think.

Good catch!

Kind of my point though.. she slips by so easily. That might be the whole point of both games.

This makes me want to play a Seeker now more than ever. The codex says they are the "watchful eye", able to thwart off the most cunning apostates.

"Bullshit! That's not what really happened."

[ajax34i]

I don't think she's an apostate; I think she's a dragon.  In the opening act of DA2, when she swoops down and burns the darkspawn then switches to human form, her human form is

1.  immune to fire
2.  effortlessly dragging that corpse by the hand without the chance in stance that would suggest it's heavy

The sixth dragon in line for being turned to archdemon is Razikale, Dragon of Mystery, which would fit with Flemeth's scheming.  The only discrepancy is that the 7 dragons known as the Tevinter Old Gods are all male, while Flemeth is always female.  But who knows.

[eldaec]

Having watched the lore clusterfuck that is ME, I suspect bioware haven't decided what flemeth is, and will let any future writer burn the mystery built up so far on some unsatisfying bullshit dlc.

[Selby]

You guys keep talking and making me want to pick up DA:O again to see if I can't finally get myself to not completely suck and maybe even get somewhere with it.  I'm not sure if I want to subject myself to the torture again ;-)

[stray]

You guys keep talking and making me want to pick up DA:O again to see if I can't finally get myself to not completely suck and maybe even get somewhere with it.  I'm not sure if I want to subject myself to the torture again ;-)

I find it too easy. If it wasn't for the story, I'd have moved on like you. What were you having trouble with? I like Warriors the most, but you can't go wrong with any rogue and mage. And for all the complaints of DA2 being "dumbed down console combat", it's harder, I think, and scales better (which has always been a problem with BW games).

edit:

The theory about Flemeth being an old god falls short for me because she's not imprisoned like the others. Blights come about because the Darkspawn corrupt the old god/dragons who dwell underground. Her codex story is that she's simply an abomination. What demon possessed her is up for question though. It doesn't seem to be any typical demon. And I don't think old gods were demons either or can possess anyone. That maybe they're just simply dragons (and the Tevinter religions were basically dragon cults, like the ones you see in DAO).

In any case, she reminds me of Merlin, but evil. Starting from the prequel books onwards, she keeps acting like a kingmaker of sorts. First with Maric, then with the Warden's story, then Hawke..

[Selby]

I find it too easy. If it wasn't for the story, I'd have moved on like you. What were you having trouble with?

On easy difficulty it was just a joke and I got so bored with it.  I think the furthest I got was the warden who recruits me and the king both die cut scenes...  On medium, my team would get beaten down to like 10% health or have a death or two on even the earliest of mobs.  Basically my problem was that my team was flat out stupid in what they would do on any kind of difficulty (usually involved lots of chasing different mobs or standing around doing nothing) and ended up dead quite quickly.  Everyone just said "oh learn to pause it every 3s and re-enter new commands" or "learn to write really complicated macros that do awesome things" but neither choice really appeals to me...

[stray]

I find it too easy. If it wasn't for the story, I'd have moved on like you. What were you having trouble with?

On easy difficulty it was just a joke and I got so bored with it.  I think the furthest I got was the warden who recruits me and the king both die cut scenes...  On medium, my team would get beaten down to like 10% health or have a death or two on even the earliest of mobs.  Basically my problem was that my team was flat out stupid in what they would do on any kind of difficulty (usually involved lots of chasing different mobs or standing around doing nothing) and ended up dead quite quickly.  Everyone just said "oh learn to pause it every 3s and re-enter new commands" or "learn to write really complicated macros that do awesome things" but neither choice really appeals to me...

If mobs are running around too much, then you need to generate threat on one of your characters. More than likely, Alistair. Get him Taunt asap, and try not to horde all of the best armor for yourself (armor also generates threat). Sten comes with Taunt, I think. Playing any other class with the other characters available by that point (Morrigan, Leliana, Dog) will be fine. Tactics are cool, but yeah, you don't need to really learn about it as a new player. It might appeal to you later.

[ajax34i]

Both "chase different mobs" and "stand around do nothing" are related to the macros, unfortunately.  You don't have to do complicated ones, though.  I got by with just "nearest enemy -> attack" on Allistair, "current target of Allistair -> attack it" on everyone, and "if party member health < 50% -> heal" on the healer.

Wasn't into the combat that much, though, so I did cheat myself 10k gold to be able to buy overpowered armor and weapons, which made it a breeze.  I just wanted the story.

[Selby]

You don't have to do complicated ones, though.  I got by with just "nearest enemy -> attack" on Allistair, "current target of Allistair -> attack it" on everyone, and "if party member health < 50% -> heal" on the healer.

Now see that sounds simple enough!  The guys who I talked to were all "oh you have to figure it out for it to make sense."  My playing time is limited since I work for a living, so fuck having to spend a week 2-3 hours a night figuring out the different macro systems for a game that is making me frustrated and not giving me fun ;-)

[Rasix]

It's not a macro system, it's a Priority Queue for Dummies. How hard can it be if it doesn't even require keyboard input? 

[ajax34i]

It's a very simple "if you see this condition -> use this spell/potion/action" system, and you have limited slots on every character, so it's probably best to put in generic things that help with surviving.  Like I said, I used it to force everyone to attack Allistair's targets.  Everyone also had "if health < 25% -> drink potion", to complement the "if health < 50% -> heal" (and the same with mana potions on casters). 

And then, if you want, you can set up combos:  "if enemy is frozen -> stone fist" or other shatter abilities, etc.  But, you run out of slots fast for that.  If you just have generic surviability rules, you just set it up once and don't need to mess with it afterwards.

You do have to pause and micromanage your mages, unfortunately, because the AI doesn't know how to use or deal with AOE spells, and they're a big part of the fights.  You have to thin out the enemy minions, otherwise they surround your characters and do huge damage from behind.

[Ingmar]

Note that on the PC you can mod the game to just give you 20 tactics slots or whatever from the get-go, if you want to be fancy with your tactics and such from the start.

[Sjofn]

I just use default tactics. 

[stray]

I just use default tactics.  

Don't tell me you do this in DA2 also?   You're supposed to be the Merrill/Anders fan. They are so much better with custom tactics.

[Tannhauser]

I LOVE the tactics system.  I was constantly tinkering with my setups.  "Freeze 'em and Fist 'em".  Hmm that doesn't sound good.

[Sjofn]

I just use default tactics.  

Don't tell me you do this in DA2 also?   You're supposed to be the Merrill/Anders fan. They are so much better with custom tactics.

I'm not the Merril fan. I'm just the vocal proponent of rivalling the shit out of her. I do fuss with Anders' tactics (I rarely bother using Merril) but not a lot, because I am lazy. If I played on nightmare I'd probably care more, but I generally play on Hard.

Of course, I am about to see if I can do acts 2 & 3 without a mage (I can't not use Bethany in act 1 because I CAN'T OKAY), so I am clearly crazy.

[stray]

I just use default tactics.  

Don't tell me you do this in DA2 also?   You're supposed to be the Merrill/Anders fan. They are so much better with custom tactics.

I'm not the Merril fan. I'm just the vocal proponent of rivalling the shit out of her. I do fuss with Anders' tactics (I rarely bother using Merril) but not a lot, because I am lazy. If I played on nightmare I'd probably care more, but I generally play on Hard.

Of course, I am about to see if I can do acts 2 & 3 without a mage (I can't not use Bethany in act 1 because I CAN'T OKAY), so I am clearly crazy.

Having no Bethany pisses me off. It's another reason why I like playing a mage who sees some need for the Circle, like a Wynne or Irving. At least I can have one representative like that in all Acts if I do it myself. The game desperately needs it. If I had a choice though, it'd be Bethany. I like playing a Warrior more. I think she's better than both Merrill and Anders too. She gets Force Mage and access to both Healing and Entropy trees. Merril and Anders are one or the other.

Anyways, Anders is pretty good if you set up tactics to use both Panacea and Vengeance.  Do something like this, where Vengeance is always on, unless he needs to heal or gets low on health himself.

Self: Health: <50%: deactivate: Vengeance
self: hp: >75%: activate: Vengeance
ally: hp: <50%: activate: Panacea
ally: hp <50%: Heal
ally: status: dead: Regroup
self: at least 3 party members below 50% health: Aid Allies

-------

and then just fit in whatever offensive spells you have for him.

[rk47]

Either lower the difficulty or just bring 2 mages along with heals.

If Warden <50% - Heal
If Enemy Sighted - Haste
If Warden is Attacked - Regenerate
If Warden Stamina <50% - Rejuvenate

My two hander warrior just chops everything up, with the DLC Blood Haste on.