2011 College Football

[Paelos]

If the NCAA doesn't bitchslap Ohio State even harder than USC, I'd be shocked at this point.

USC got off light, as far as I'm concerned.  tOSU really should be looking at the death penalty for this; at the very least shutting down the football program for a year or declaring every single player involved ineligible plus scholarship reductions, TV/bowl ban, etc.

Ok Bama.   I hate them as much as the next guy, but let's have some perspective. They aren't going to shut down one of their most popular historic programs. It's bad for the sport. If I'm putting penalties on them, I'm doing a 2 year bowl ban, allow full junior and senior transfers without penalty, declare those players specifically involved ineligible, lose 40 scholarships, and yank their primetime spots on TV for a year. I'm also removing their championship.

[HaemishM]

Shit, OSU will get about as Mickey Mouse a penalty as fucking USC did. Or Auburn years back. It's a big, money-making machine of a program. They won't do anything to cut off its gravy train.

Pryor, though, that little shit ought to be the scapegoat, if for nothing else than being a goddamn dumbass. 8 really nice cars in what 2 years, and a new one even AFTER he gets suspended by one of the most corrupt coaches in the NCAA? DUMBASS. Too bad you didn't declare for the draft and the NFL can't get its shit together enough to sign free agents yet.

[ghost]

Losing 30 scholarships over 3 years is not a mickey mouse penalty.  

And they are going to nail Pryor to a wall, becuse tOSU is going to offer him up as a sacrificial lamb.

[Paelos]

The AJ Green v. Terrelle Pryor thing proved that Ohio State gets special treatment by the NCAA.

They did the exact same thing, yet somehow Pryor got to magically have his "suspension" deferred.

[ghost]

Yeah, that whole deal of them getting to play in the bowl stinks. 

[SnakeCharmer]

If the NCAA doesn't bitchslap Ohio State even harder than USC, I'd be shocked at this point.

USC got off light, as far as I'm concerned.  tOSU really should be looking at the death penalty for this; at the very least shutting down the football program for a year or declaring every single player involved ineligible plus scholarship reductions, TV/bowl ban, etc.

Ok Bama.   I hate them as much as the next guy, but let's have some perspective. They aren't going to shut down one of their most popular historic programs. It's bad for the sport. If I'm putting penalties on them, I'm doing a 2 year bowl ban, allow full junior and senior transfers without penalty, declare those players specifically involved ineligible, lose 40 scholarships, and yank their primetime spots on TV for a year. I'm also removing their championship.

Yeah, I admit to going in that direction with the "NCAA hates Bama" thing (and I knew you'd pick up on it, you Bulldog bastard).  But for fucks sake...We get 2 years probation or some such for kids selling their textbooks.  We got HAMMERED by the NCAA for the Logan Young/Albert Means thing and nobody at the school (or even the kid) knew about it.  Yes, the NCAA hates Alabama.

Where's a good :paranoid: emote when you need one.

No, they aren't going to shut tOSU down, but they damn sure should get hit pretty freaking hard.  I do think if you yanked the eligibility of the players involved and cut 40 scholarships it would basically be the same thing as shutting the program down for a couple years based on the sheer number of players being removed from the pool.

edit:

PS:

91 DAYS

[01101010]

I agree that Alabama had a flag pole shoved up their ass and was made an example of with that whole NCAA death knell handed to them and as such, so should tOSU. Particularly given the fact they actually let those guys play in the god damn bowl game - which just is a blatant money grab. I also think that the whole Cam Newton saga of he is suspended, reinstated, under investigation, etc was a dog and pony show as well. I would not be surprised if we are to see his Heisman returned and that national title vacated in a few years.

91 days... 91 days to figure out where to get the money to buy a tv and get some cabletv. Gotta watch my hometown, grass-eating batshit crazy coach pull another few games outta his ass... (still laughing at Tenn). 

[01101010]

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/06/usc-stripped-of-04-bcs-title/related

Welp... I shall drink to tOSU's departure from the national standings for the next 5 years. 

[Paelos]

I'm going to find it really hilarious if Ohio State gets their national championship taken away from 2002 over the Tressel thing. That's the only thing that suckass conference has to hang it's hat on.

Well besides being "leaders" and "legends" 

[ghost]

Hey, we all know that if the Big 10 had gotten Notre Dame that it would be a fucking awesome conference now.   

Nebraska was a pretty fucking huge addition, joking aside. 

[01101010]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6636768

BAHAHAhahahaha... Pryor, so predictable.

[Paelos]

Yet another reason why delaying the suspension was retarded.

God the NCAA is dumb. They need to make this right or they are at risk of losing tons of fans when they stop believing that any championship is real.

[Ingmar]

at risk of losing tons of fans

I am nearly certain the vast, vast majority of college football fans just follow/root for their own school and couldn't care less about the big picture stuff except when it somehow touches on their team. I know stuff happening at Ohio State matters not at all to me as a Cal fan, and I suspect for most of the people out there buying their school's tickets and logo wear and such the situation is the same.

[Paelos]

So you're saying you only watch Cal? You don't watch the rest of the games?

[Ingmar]

So you're saying you only watch Cal? You don't watch the rest of the games?

I'll watch the occasional other Pac 10 game and maybe a big bowl game or two. I don't really give a shit about anybody else, no. I am pretty sure most "NCAA" fans are just fans of their own teams/conferences, though.

[Paelos]

My point is that the draw for the fan who watches anything else outside of his own team goes down. I know that most people I am friends with spend most of the day watching the games, but who knows.

[01101010]

I watch LSU when they are on... but barely considering I almost stroked out during the Tenn game, and we actually won that one. But yeah, I watch other teams, but only certain ones. I'll admit, I will go to the mall rather then sit down to watch Akron play Marshall or the like. I won't watch certain teams like OU or Texas mainly because I have too many bad memories of shitty fans - enough to resent the fuck outta their team (which I am sure they can say the same for my team's fans). I watched all of University of Miami games when I actually knew the kids playing and could poke fun at them in class. Now they are a passing interest but not a game I circle to watch. I am hard pressed to watch teams I don't give a shit about, but will strap in for teams I feel are good.

[Paelos]

Yep that's my point. Teams that are national brands stop being national brands if everybody believes they are dirty. I'm not going to bother watching USC or Ohio State or Texas if it's obvious they will win because they are cheating their asses off.

[Chimpy]

Yep that's my point. Teams that are national brands stop being national brands if everybody believes they are dirty. I'm not going to bother watching USC or Ohio State or Texas if it's obvious they will win because they are cheating their asses off.

But when it comes out that Florida, Alabama, Auburn, and LSU are all equally "cheating their asses off" will you play the same tune or will you continue to play Mr. SEC high and mighty?

Hell, it is pretty obvious these days that the only way to be successful in college football is to at the very least flexibly bend the rules if not break them outright. The system is broken as it is and no amount of cheating appears to matter to the people who actually "follow" teams that win as long as they do so.

[ghost]

I am nearly certain the vast, vast majority of college football fans just follow/root for their own school and couldn't care less about the big picture stuff except when it somehow touches on their team. I know stuff happening at Ohio State matters not at all to me as a Cal fan, and I suspect for most of the people out there buying their school's tickets and logo wear and such the situation is the same.

This may be true in California, but the SEC/Big Ten fans are different sorts.  They live and breathe football.  The same goes for the Big 12, to a limited extent.

[Paelos]

Yep that's my point. Teams that are national brands stop being national brands if everybody believes they are dirty. I'm not going to bother watching USC or Ohio State or Texas if it's obvious they will win because they are cheating their asses off.

But when it comes out that Florida, Alabama, Auburn, and LSU are all equally "cheating their asses off" will you play the same tune or will you continue to play Mr. SEC high and mighty? Hell, it is pretty obvious these days that the only way to be successful in college football is to at the very least flexibly bend the rules if not break them outright. The system is broken as it is and no amount of cheating appears to matter to the people who actually "follow" teams that win as long as they do so.

Nope. I'm actually expecting Auburn to get burned. They had to be dirty. That one is a black eye for the SEC and you won't hear me crowing about it. I seriously doubt Alabama would be that stupid to get hit AGAIN and then win. LSU is run by an idiot, so if he's cheating it's probably unintentional. I'd LOOOOOOOOVE to find out Urban was cheating to beat us all those years, but I really doubt it. There's no way UGA is dirty under Mark Richt.

I also think you are underestimating how broken things are getting and how fast sources can turn on anyone. There's 5x more money in college football than there was 20 years ago, and the technology and sources we have now make it nearly impossible to keep anything quiet. It's a situation where the money and awareness is going to create a multiplier effect. It's gone from scholar athelete -> man, a few bad eggs got caught -> "scholar athelete <snicker>" -> I'm pretty sure everyone is cheating somehow.

I'm one of the biggest sports nutjobs in my circle and I can tell you right now, I'd quit going if I believed it was impossible to win without blatantly cheating and the NCAA was going to do nothing about it. I'd rather spend my money on NFL tickets than support mercenaries playing under the guise of my school.

[ghost]

Yeah, so OSU is completely fucked.  Pryor got 40K for signing stuff while at OSU.  I wonder if they won't actually get the death penalty from this.  It's got to at least be as bad as USC

[Azuredream]

There's no way UGA is dirty under Mark Richt.

Tempting fate? 

Regarding the OSU laundry, I've always been more of an NFL fan so I really doubt I'm going to pay any attention at all to OSU this year. Our athletic director is an asshole, Pryor was totally unlikable, and Tressel is completely corrupt. I almost hope they nuke the program from orbit.

[01101010]

Nope. I'm actually expecting Auburn to get burned. They had to be dirty. That one is a black eye for the SEC and you won't hear me crowing about it. I seriously doubt Alabama would be that stupid to get hit AGAIN and then win. LSU is run by an idiot, so if he's cheating it's probably unintentional. I'd LOOOOOOOOVE to find out Urban was cheating to beat us all those years, but I really doubt it. There's no way UGA is dirty under Mark Richt.

HEY! So the man eats grass and can't read a clock... He still gets the job done and has a flair for the dramatic and, well, bizarre. It's all a cover. 

[ghost]

Les Miles is absofuckinglutely awesome. 

[ghost]

It looks like Texas may be next.  None other than Colt McCoy's beautiful and highly intelligent wife let some interesting revelations slip.  I think the NCAA truly is going to end up with every big university on probation.  That's a problem. 

[Paelos]

Nothing she said there indicates more than a second-degree violation that probably already got reported by compliance. Getting constantly approached about taking shit happens all the time because the NCAA rules are extremely narrow due to prior abuses.

[ghost]

Yes, but once you have an investigation started, the NCAA will undoubtedly uncover tons of stuff.  I love Texas, but they are in the same boat as OSU, USC, Florida State, Oklahoma, Alabama and every other big name school.  We're going to see more and more of this stuff crop up, I'm afraid.  Hopefully it will force the NCAA to take a legitimate look at their lame rules.

[Paelos]

Based on what she said in that 6m interview, there's nothing there to warrant an investigation though.

[HaemishM]

Does anyone with even a passing knowledge of college football really believe there is a CLEAN program out there in Division I? Are you really that naive?

The NCAA is a relic and needs to start looking at the way the Europeans deal with young socceer players. The clubs have academies that are made to produce athletes, and they pay them as both semi-pros and professionals if the kid is good enough. Stop all this backdoor bullshit and PAY THE FUCKING KIDS. The NCAA and the really big successful programs are making GOBS of money, and rich boosters everywhere are spending big dollars on the kids too. You want it all above board? Pay the players, let them get some money off the licensing the NCAA is doing with those kids' images and grow the fuck up.

[ghost]

but I saw so many of his teammates who didn’t have some of that self control to say no to somebody

[Paelos]

but I saw so many of his teammates who didn’t have some of that self control to say no to somebody

Key word missing there. She said "many of his teammate who MAYBE didn't have some of that self control"

She's not a reliable source, she doesn't name any names. Hell, I can call into a show and toss around maybes with the best of them.

[Paelos]

Does anyone with even a passing knowledge of college football really believe there is a CLEAN program out there in Division I? Are you really that naive?

The NCAA is a relic and needs to start looking at the way the Europeans deal with young socceer players. The clubs have academies that are made to produce athletes, and they pay them as both semi-pros and professionals if the kid is good enough. Stop all this backdoor bullshit and PAY THE FUCKING KIDS. The NCAA and the really big successful programs are making GOBS of money, and rich boosters everywhere are spending big dollars on the kids too. You want it all above board? Pay the players, let them get some money off the licensing the NCAA is doing with those kids' images and grow the fuck up.

1 - The rules make it impossible to be totally clean. However, there is a vast chasm between taking a dinner or a car ride, and taking thousands of dollars repeatedly for your family and friends or new cars.
2 - Schools have compliance departments to take out the trash on the small violations and stay in check. The key is you can't lie when you find something, and you can't turn the other way.
3 - I'm never in favor of following any European system for sports. The system we have works fine in every sport except football. There are ways to fix it without paying players. Like, for example, stop pretending they can't sell their own signatures and let the market dictate what they are worth.

[01101010]

Does anyone with even a passing knowledge of college football really believe there is a CLEAN program out there in Division I? Are you really that naive?

The NCAA is a relic and needs to start looking at the way the Europeans deal with young socceer players. The clubs have academies that are made to produce athletes, and they pay them as both semi-pros and professionals if the kid is good enough. Stop all this backdoor bullshit and PAY THE FUCKING KIDS. The NCAA and the really big successful programs are making GOBS of money, and rich boosters everywhere are spending big dollars on the kids too. You want it all above board? Pay the players, let them get some money off the licensing the NCAA is doing with those kids' images and grow the fuck up.

Bolded part is precisely why the NCAA will hold on, till death, to what they got right now. No way in hell they give up the golden geese without a fight.

[HaemishM]

If you let the kids start selling their sigs, why wouldn't you pay them? Lookit, the NCAA gets millions in licensing fees and gets the use the shit out of these guys' likenesses on video games, TV ads, posters and shit, but the player whose likeness is being used can't even take a fucking dinner without getting shit on. If the kid was a child actor, they'd get image licensing royalties, so why not collegiate athletes? These kids are getting taken advantage of with the promise of 1) an education (which the better ones aren't even expected to take advantage of since we let the kids leave college for the pros after 3 seasons) and 2) the potential riches of a short and brutal and maybe lucrative NFL career. I don't blame the kids for taking whatever they can get, because why not? Everyone else is getting a piece of the pie. How many college QB's are household fucking names but can't cut it in the NFL? They end up not getting paid AND their likenesses filled a lot of coffers to brimming during those 3-4 years in college.

I'm not saying a paid education isn't useful, but compared to the money being made on the backs of these kids, it's goddamn peanuts.