Shogun 2: Total War

[Ingmar]

I feel like Civ isn't a very good comparison, but I'm having a hard time thinking of a better one.

[Sheepherder]

Axis & Allies?

[NowhereMan]

Yeah, I quite enjoyed M:TW2 but Rome is the best of them. I never got into Empire and I feel like I should give it another go at some point but one of the things I always disliked about TW series is the amount of mini-management you can do with your empire as the game progresses and Empire's inclusion of more settlements in provinces increased that greatly so within a few turns I'm already starting to get bored with checking all my settlements and keeping an eye on where my troops are and making sure everywhere is sufficiently defended vs. having a reasonable army and so on.

In previous games I hit that point mid-game and was invested enough to slog through while I had enough stuff to feel I could get away with letting the AI handle some stuff and I could just ignore a load of provinces until I had the money to build stuff. Empire left me feeling like that pretty quickly and I can't take playing it for more than an hour or two before I'm just seriously bored. That and I don't think the battles were awesome enough to make up for it, possibly because it was so early on (I don't think I even made it out of the tutorial).

[Stormwaltz]

For anyone planning to preorder, Gamersgate has a decent deal going. Order through them and you get 30% of the price back in their "blue coin" store currency, plus Rome Gold Edition.

http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-TWS2/total-war-shogun-2

[Speedy Cerviche]

I would recommend against pre-ordering this game. CA has a long track record of craptastic releases that require 6 months of patching and modding for serious bugs and balance issues to be fixed.

[Paelos]

I would recommend against pre-ordering this game. CA has a long track record of craptastic releases that require 6 months of patching and modding for serious bugs and balance issues to be fixed.

I agree. There's absolutely no way in hell I would ever pre-order another TW game after Empire until they show me a launch success.

[Kodan]

I would recommend against pre-ordering this game. CA has a long track record of craptastic releases that require 6 months of patching and modding for serious bugs and balance issues to be fixed.

 This is the main reason I havent bought one of their games since Medieval 2. That game as far as I know is still broken... Its pretty sad that the modders did more work fixing their crappy game than the company that made it did. I refuse to support developers that work that way. This is pretty much why I  wont buy anything from UBISoft. There are a couple of their games that are still bugged beyond belief.

[jakonovski]

The demo is supposed to be out today. Anyone tried it? I'm stuck at work...

[Ghambit]

Demo just went up on Steam.  Gawd... between this and DA2 this is gonna take a while.

[Ghambit]

So far I'm liking this more than any other TW 'cept Rome...  and I'm only going that far because obviously this is just a demo.  Given the feature set though (the online capabilities seem pretty robust), it's likely this may even surpass Rome's greatness. 
The game is just very fluid (maybe too fluid), unclunky, and gushes theme more than the others I've played.  I REALLY love the unit card artwork and music.    The whole vibe just takes you back to ancient Japan and the decision to shirk many of the bloated 3d animations for well-penned 2d art was a smart one.

I dunno, I also just really think Total War works best with pre-gunpowder warfare.  It feels so much more visceral and raw.  And you feel as if you've got way more control.  Games like Empire, Napoleon, etc. feel like you just sit and wait for a mortar or musket reload.  With Rome or Shogun you're really concentrating on your formations, strengths, abilities, and generally paying more attention to even singular units (especially in Shogun, when wicked samurai swordfights are the norm).  Doesnt get more visceral than that.

If they nail the persistent online element it'll be the best of the series by far.  Upgradeable avatars, leaderboards, coop/pvp campaigns, fuckin CLAN PLAY!  Yes.  Clan Play.  In a Total War game.  Shogun nonetheless, how apropos.

Last time I've ever wanted to start a strat. game clan was Rome and I'm thinking I may take the plunge again with this title.  It could be just that good.  PCGamer's 92%+editor's choice may be correct on this one as it's looking like Shogun2 is pretty much all we liked in Rome plus all that we thought it still needed to make it untouchable.

A must buy UNLESS they drop the ball like they have in the past and:
a)  the game needs serious patching
b)  they dont release with everything they promised
c)  all of the above

[Sophismata]

Yeah, mostly in agreement. So far this is better than all the 3D Total Wars, mostly because shit moves where and when you tell it to. It's thematic, smooth, and runs much better than Empire: TW. Also, it might just be the demo, but enemy turns were lightning fast.

I still miss the shortcuts and control of Shogun and Medieval, but this game doesn't make me want to kill something. The fast forward isn't fast enough, the sudden lack of sound when you change gamespeed and the still somewhat clunky fine unit control are annoying, but overall the game seems really good.


I have a feeling that Hero Units weren't a good path to walk down, though - the extra abilities involved with your General and Hero Units increase in-battle micromanagement in a game that's supposed to be more about broader battle strategy. It feels wrong.

[Mosesandstick]

The demo seems fun, though I need to get used to the building interface. I'm stoked.

[Paelos]

Downloaded the demo overnight, so I'm going to play it tonight. I am looking forward to seeing the differences.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Last time I've ever wanted to start a strat. game clan was Rome and I'm thinking I may take the plunge again with this title.  It could be just that good.  PCGamer's 92%+editor's choice may be correct on this one as it's looking like Shogun2 is pretty much all we liked in Rome plus all that we thought it still needed to make it untouchable.

A must buy UNLESS they drop the ball like they have in the past and:
a)  the game needs serious patching
b)  they dont release with everything they promised
c)  all of the above

Some things to consider.

Empire was getting 90+ pre-release and release day reviews.

Also demo is heavily scripted, not like a real campaign/battles.

That said, I am a very big TW series fan (playing since Shogun 1), but I won't get burned again by CA's crummy releases. Don't trust scripted demos and rigged review sites, check out what the cynical fans at twcenter.net and totalwar.org are saying.

[Ghambit]

Oh yah, w/o a doubt you'd be a fool to plop down preorder money on this thing.  I'm with you there.
The problem with that thinking though is since they're pushing clan play, leaderboards, persistence, etc.  the longer you wait the further you fall in the rankings.  If you dont care about those things though, waiting would be smart.

Yeah, mostly in agreement. So far this is better than all the 3D Total Wars, mostly because shit moves where and when you tell it to. It's thematic, smooth, and runs much better than Empire: TW. Also, it might just be the demo, but enemy turns were lightning fast.

I still miss the shortcuts and control of Shogun and Medieval, but this game doesn't make me want to kill something. The fast forward isn't fast enough, the sudden lack of sound when you change gamespeed and the still somewhat clunky fine unit control are annoying, but overall the game seems really good.


I have a feeling that Hero Units weren't a good path to walk down, though - the extra abilities involved with your General and Hero Units increase in-battle micromanagement in a game that's supposed to be more about broader battle strategy. It feels wrong.

I liked the hero units and the micro involved actually.  BUT, since the gameplay is so quick in this version it can indeed feel 'wrong' mainly because there's not enough time to change a tactic if you've made a bad move... you just get wasted in .5 seconds.  No hero ability can save you if you charge your cav into a wall of spears... it's just instadeath.  Fights only get slightly prolongued if there's a stalemate.

[Engels]

How about performance? I have an aging Core2Duo 6750 that I've been waiting to upgrade till the new Intel processors come out, but I also want to play Shogun. I've found that the Total War series can be pretty taxing on your CPU, so I worry about this element.

[Sophismata]

How about performance? I have an aging Core2Duo 6750 that I've been waiting to upgrade till the new Intel processors come out, but I also want to play Shogun. I've found that the Total War series can be pretty taxing on your CPU, so I worry about this element.

I have an E8400 and it runs fine. MUCH better than Empire: TW.

[Paelos]

Empire didn't run well on anything.

[Kodan]

LOL this game could show up at my house with Baby Jesus, Strippers, Drugs, Santa Claus, and the Pope and I still would not give those crooks at CA a dime. I hate a developer that pushes out a new product all the while promising to continue to fix their current buggy piece of crap only to forget all mention of those fixes once you have bought the new product. Lets not even being to go into how buggy the new product is as well.

[Paelos]

I played the demo. I can't really say it changed my opinion about waiting past release for a purchase. It's seemingly solid, but the entire experience was so on rails I have a hard time estimating whether they fixed their glaring AI problems of the past or not.

[Teleku]

Yeah, fuckstupid AI is the big killer for me.  Again, one of the MANY reasons Rome was the height of the series is that it still maintained good AI.  Trying to conquer Greece was a fucking challenge.  Conquering all of Europe in Empire, on the other hand, was a god damn joke.

[Kodan]

No the goddamn joke was watching a group of guys equipped with siege ladders walk up to a wall and then STAND there forever wondering what the hell that tall thing with people on it killing them is. Or the guys with battering rams that couldnt find a gate with both hands nailed to said gate.

[FatuousTwat]

No the goddamn joke was watching a group of guys equipped with siege ladders walk up to a wall and then STAND there forever wondering what the hell that tall thing with people on it killing them is. Or the guys with battering rams that couldnt find a gate with both hands nailed to said gate.

Nah, that's all balanced, because if they fixed that, they would also have to fix the idiot defending troops not using the cannons built into the walls.

[Paelos]

My favorite Rome bug was when guys would push a siege tower to within 10 feet of the wall, stop, get in the thing, drop the top bridge, and proceed to fall to their deaths over and over like lemmings in the two foot space between the bridge and the wall.

[Kodan]

My favorite Rome bug was when guys would push a siege tower to within 10 feet of the wall, stop, get in the thing, drop the top bridge, and proceed to fall to their deaths over and over like lemmings in the two foot space between the bridge and the wall.

 I am pretty sure this one was still a bug in Medieval 2 as well. Sieges have sucked in all their games... If its not retarded defenders its retarded attackers or BOTH at the same time... Better off to autoresolve if it wasnt for the fact that tends to screw you unless you have super overwhelming forces....

[Paelos]

My favorite part about it was my reactions upon realizing what went wrong. I'm elsewhere on the map setting up archer volleys, moving cavalry for an approach:

Huh, my siege units are losing numbers. Must be arrows.
Man, they are dropping fast, better check on that. <mouse to point>
OH NO! FUCK NO STOP YOU IDIOTS! <mad clicking to run away from the falling pit of doom>

[jakonovski]

I finally got around to actually playing the demo. The immediate reaction was a mix of nostalgia and fuck yeah this shit is the best. However, as a testament to CA's ability to fuck games up, I was able to snap out of it and get back to fearing the worst and not intending to buy it before early adopters do the testing for me.

[Paelos]

I finally got around to actually playing the demo. The immediate reaction was a mix of nostalgia and fuck yeah this shit is the best. However, as a testament to CA's ability to fuck games up, I was able to snap out of it and get back to fearing the worst and not intending to buy it before early adopters do the testing for me.

I admit, it's pull is heavy on me to buy this game early. I have to stare at my copy of Empire on Steam with $49.99 next to it before I can move on without giving them my credit card.

[tgr]

It's not like there's some silly pre-order bonus if you buy it early, and I'm sure you guys have plenty of other games to keep you occupied in the meantime.

[Paelos]

It's not like there's some silly pre-order bonus if you buy it early, and I'm sure you guys have plenty of other games to keep you occupied in the meantime.

Sadly, I really don't. There's a derth of crap out there I'm willing to play. This and DA2 are the only ones on my March radar, and if they suck, I'll be sad. 

[jakonovski]

It's not like there's some silly pre-order bonus if you buy it early, and I'm sure you guys have plenty of other games to keep you occupied in the meantime.

DoW2 Retribution ftw. Also I found Dead Space 2 for 20 moneys so that's cool too.

[Paelos]

FYI they just put up Medieval 2 on Steam for $2.50 in connection with the TW complete pack going on sale.

I own it already, but I picked it up to de-disc at that price.

[Ingmar]

Did they ever fix widescreen in that game? I think that was the one I tried to play and got sick of the distorted map screen before I finished conquering Europe.

[Paelos]

Did they ever fix widescreen in that game? I think that was the one I tried to play and got sick of the distorted map screen before I finished conquering Europe.

Data on that issue was spotty at best, but I didn't really delve far into the tech forums to see that far back.

Screen issues outside of standard seemed to be an issue for people is all I know.

[Engels]

Uhm, I think it may be patched. I've played lots and lots of M:TW and I haven't used a standard screen forever. Not very helpful, I know, but I'm pretty confident. $2.50 confident, by any rate.