Blood Bowl - ** f13 League, Season #3 **

[Teleku]

Sorry, was out of town for Christmas in the land of no internet.  Yes, I'm in for Season 3.

[lamaros]

• Split divisions for old and new teams
• Old teams carry over and are mixed with new teams in the same division
• New teams for all, carry over in season 4

If we get 28 teams then one div will take a hell of a long time. Playing 27 other teams will be fun, but it will probably cause attrition too. (This is how it works, right?)

Are you looking at Dark Elves or one of the other flavors?

At this point I'm looking at them all, maybe favouring in this order: High > Skaven > Dark > Pro > Wood. I love the High Elf passing game, so great!

Though I've get to give a bashy team a run, so maybe I will fall in love with them and change completely.

[Modern Angel]

No. The divisions are split evenly, so with 28 teams you'd have 14 teams per. 13 games in a season and then the playoffs. LongER than season 2 but not onerous so long as we keep up the same speed.

[Ruvaldt]

28 teams/13 games per team is still pretty big.  Normally I would be concerned with such a long season.  Inevitably coaches will see that they are clearly out of playoff contention and simply stop playing, but since it looks like we'll have carryovers in the future it now gives them something to continue working toward even if they are mathematically out of the post-season.  My bet is that attrition won't be much of an issue.

[Hoax]

Can you run 4 divisions? 3?

[Modern Angel]

Yep. Think four is the max size. If we did that, I wouldn't mind seeing an eight team playoff (two from each division).

[lamaros]

Can you run 4 divisions? 3?

Can run five if you get 30 players!

[Ice Cream Emperor]

My rankings/votes.

On team inclusion:

1. New teams this season, choice of veteran team carried over for future seasons.
2. Allow veteran teams, mixed in with regular teams.
3. All new teams every season.
4. Allow veteran teams, but put them in their own division.

My first two choices are basically even and I am strongly against carrying over teams but then segregating them divisionally -- it seems basically equivalent to having two separate leagues, and is not exactly socially welcoming (come play in the new league -- oh, but only with the other new people.)


On league/division structure:

Like the idea of a concurrent cup as well as a non-playoff season.
Like two larger divisions (and a longer season) over a larger number of smaller ones.
Like a longer playoff round if we do go with 3-4+ divisions.
No dislikes. Same structure as last season is fine too.

--

In terms of team selection, I thought about Skaven but they just seem incredibly injury-prone, especially when considering that human players are far, far more deliberate/effective than the AI when it comes to bashing. Plus the Rat Ogre dilemma (I want one, but they are expensive and so frustrating!)

As much as I hate to contribute to a glut, I am leaning towards Necromantic -- they're just so dang flexible/capable. Though no apothecary can be a bit scary.

[Teleku]

Are you looking at Dark Elves or one of the other flavors?

At this point I'm looking at them all, maybe favouring in this order: High > Skaven > Dark > Pro > Wood. I love the High Elf passing game, so great!

Though I've get to give a bashy team a run, so maybe I will fall in love with them and change completely.

Out of curiosity, if you like passing so much, why do you have High Elf as most favored, and Wood elf as least favored?  They're pretty much the most passy team in the game.

[Sky]

I'm going to be destroyed so utterly I'm not going to vote on the rules. It doesn't matter. I need an easy team and it needs to be called Detroit imo.

[Kail]

I'm in for Season 3, sure!  

Trying to decide on a team... I always play Halflings in fantasy games, and am kinda leaning towards that, but I'm not sure if a newb coach on a Halfling team would end up unfairly feeding some opponents.  If not Hobbits, I dunno.  Maybe Lizardmen, or Pro Elfs.

Edit: Also, if you need to boot someone to keep the divisions the right size, feel free to kick me over anyone else, I can happily spend another season gawking at the replays in preparation for my inevitable beating.

[Ruvaldt]

Even veteran coaches playing Halflings end up unfairly feeding their opponents.  Halflings may well be the single most difficult Blood Bowl team to win with.  They aren't useless, and can grow as a team if you keep them alive and use your ents well, but it's definitely a challenging path.

[Sir T]

My first two choices are basically even and I am strongly against carrying over teams but then segregating them divisionally -- it seems basically equivalent to having two separate leagues, and is not exactly socially welcoming (come play in the new league -- oh, but only with the other new people.)

This very much sums up the problem I see with the division idea.

[Falconeer]

I am going to try my best not to kick anyone but if I have to, I am leaning towards kicking lurkers over f13 veterans, if nothing else because I feel like I can trust old f13ers better over people I've never insulted around here before.

We have 26 confirmed, 1 uncertain (Xuri) and 1 free spot.

Damn, this is complicated.

[Sir T]

I'd ask for volunteers to drop out first falk.

[Ruvaldt]

Sign-ups don't close for another two weeks.  It's not yet time to be concerned.

[Ingmar]

What does "Spiraling Expenses" actually do?

[Strazos]

I can only assume something that impacts post-game winnings.

[proudft]

League option where if your team is over X value after a match, you pay Y amount of gold for every increment you exceed X by.  You can't go into negative gold in your treasury, it will reduce to a minimum of 0.  Default numbers in the competition rules are that it kicks in at $1,750,000, and the expenses are $10,000 for every $140,000 increment.  One of the open leagues uses this and a couple of the others use different numbers.

[Falconeer]

Yes, spiraling expenses is a very cool mechanic that prevents rich and strong teams to become endlessly richer, actually making it harder for them to keep up with injuries and deaths.

[Falconeer]

I have a NON-Steam version of Blood Bowl Legendary Edition available for sale for 9 dollars (you can pay me through Paypal). Anyone interested?

What you get is a link to the Official Download page, multiplayer key, activation key. So you can create your OWN multiplayer account I have no access to. You can pay me after you checked everything is in order.

Difference with the Steam version is, you can download and install it two (more) times before you have to write an email to support and have them reset the installations count. Yes, it has DRM.
This is not the best deal in the world, but it gets you up and running for f13 Blood Bowl Leagues for a mere 9 dollars.

I also would like to note that I am not doing this for the 9 dollars, more cause I love to give more people a chance to play in the League.

Haha! Goddamned clowns at Focus Entertainment. The download link is not valid anymore, after 21 days from purchase. So basically, I have the install file, but I don't have a dropbox large enough to put the 2.8 gigs file on, so unless you know of a place where I can upload it for you to grab it (or you can get the client some other way), the whole thing can't be done. Fuck fuck.

[Ingmar]

My name on Steam is Ingmarrrr (assuming that is the piece of information you are missing, I joined the group when I signed up.)

[Sir T]

Falk, try sendspace www.sendspace.com

Eh nevermind, they only go up to 300 meg a file.

[Falconeer]

You indecisive Euros, the boxed game is for sale on Play.com for 11.99£ (shipping included).

[Hoax]

For those wondering about team carry over voting and to give Sir T and any other posters a chance to chime in (use the ranked choice format please).

-New teams every season is out of the question with very few people even ranking it as an option.

-Split divisions between old and new come next though this option did get one first place vote.

-Carry teams over after Season #3 is the second most popular option (two 1st place, two 2nd place, one 3rd)

-Carry teams into Season #3 and mix the divisions is currently winning (four 1st place, two 2nd place)


For TV many people aren't voting because they don't know shit about TV and spiraling expenses but those who are voting are saying 1750 except Straz who takes a very American view on the issue.


Playoffs are in. Forever. American Style. No matter what you filthy euros come up with.  

[lamaros]

Are you looking at Dark Elves or one of the other flavors?

At this point I'm looking at them all, maybe favouring in this order: High > Skaven > Dark > Pro > Wood. I love the High Elf passing game, so great!

Though I've get to give a bashy team a run, so maybe I will fall in love with them and change completely.

Out of curiosity, if you like passing so much, why do you have High Elf as most favored, and Wood elf as least favored?  They're pretty much the most passy team in the game.

I dunno, I just haven't warmed to the wood elves in any of the games I have played as them. Still, I think I will go Skaven in the end. Love those GRs. Though if a few others also go them I might pick a more under-represented race.

1750 for spiralling expenses seems a decent spot.

Playoffs is fine with me, though doesn't the more games for the winnings teams give them an advantage going in to season 4, if we have a case of an 8 team playoff series?

[Ice Cream Emperor]

Since I didn't say anything about spiralling expenses, 1750 seems fine to me for this season; it might be worth considering raising the 'cap' to 2000 as more and more teams are carried over.

[lamaros]

For the third time now my graphics card has overheated and caused my computer to go all choppy while playing blood bowl. This is really annoying. Anyone else have this problem and have any tips for settings changes?

[Comstar]

Well I;ve thought about it now I've seen a lot of other opinions, and my choice is:


1- Old teams can carry over and are mixed in with new teams in the same division
2- New teams for all, but carry over in Season 4
3- New teams for all every season
4- Have split Divisions with new teams in one division, old teams in another

1750 Max Limit this season (you can raise it next season), with Playoffs.

[eldaec]

I'd try to keep the season length down to about what we had this time - I'm not sure 14 team divisions will work well for anyone who gets IainC's luck.

WIth the current 27 players, I'd set it up as a 30 team 5 division championship. Have season 2 participants volunteer for an extra team to fill the thirty if they want, but races for additional team are either halfling, goblin, or ogre.

When that completes run the playoffs as 5 group winners plus 3 second place teams with the best records. If you create the playoffs as a new competition after the main season you skip over the arbitrary restrictive nonsense in the league creator. This would also mean you could run a second and third tier of playoffs for the next 8 best records.


I'd go with keeping teams, there are enough people volunteering here that everyone will end up playing some advanced teams (w/ inducements), some new players, and some new to f13 blood bowl vets. Variety is good. Just seed carefully, based on season 2 record first, and the coaches' wider BB record second. Ignore TV.

The standard spiralling expenses are fine, and anyway, we're going to be at least another half dozen games away from them mattering - by which time this competition will be getting to toward the end.

[Falconeer]

Have season 2 participants volunteer for an extra team to fill the thirty if they want

This is not possible. System does not allow under any circumstance to have a coach join any League with two teams. Already tested, sadly.

When that completes run the playoffs as 5 group winners plus 3 second place teams with the best records. If you create the playoffs as a new competition after the main season you skip over the arbitrary restrictive nonsense in the league creator. This would also mean you could run a second and third tier of playoffs for the next 8 best records.

This is not a bad idea, but what would be the purpose of additional tiers of playoffs anyway? Remember that having more games to play isn't always a good thing, and I don't believe that much in everyone's will to play in a "meaningless" post season (you can't put a money prize either, otherwise you risk to give money to who wins the lower tier playoff, but none to whoever gets 3rd place overall).

And for 2 divisions of 14 teams each, it's not the best solution but unfortunately we are very limited by the unflexible League creator. Based on the number of teams you are quite stuck to usually just one solution. If we can get 30 teams it would be great to have five divisions, but we don't have 30 teams yet, and the "double team" trick cannot be used.


Finally, I am sorry Lamaros, no idea about your overheating and never heard anyone lamenting that problem specifically with Blood Bowl.

[Modern Angel]

Can you do four divisions on 7?

I agree with Falc on the playoffs.

[Falconeer]

Can you do four divisions on 7?

No. The system doesn't support anything uneven.

[Hoax]

I need to think more and hear more discussion on the multiple playoff system. The playoffs for lesser teams could be for the purpose of getting more specific and more accurate seeding for the next season and just to give more teams more games which while not always a good thing often can be a good thing and gives more coaches a chance to finish the season on a high point, similar to college football and its bowl system.

If we're doing playoffs as a new competition outside after the main season (instead of having them automated) you could create 2 leagues to get us to 30 teams or whatever number so we can avoid a long as hell season.

I do think that keeping the season at 8 games or less is critical, you don't want to force the coaches with teams who are having bad seasons or who being new to the game decide they prefer to try a different race, strat or build to be forced to play 10 or 15 games with that team.

[Modern Angel]

Yeah, see, I hate college football. There need to be losers. It's okay for there to be losers. I was a loser this past season. I don't think the playoff system we had needs to be touched in any way except to evaluate the numbers going in.