MLB 2011

[caladein]

So apparently they added ads to the At Bat 11 app on Android.  Not sure what MLBAM's idea is, but I'm already paying $135 between At Bat 11 and MLB.tv and am going to be stuck with Volvo slideshows on both if they ever give me a reason to update my phone's app (like say, video support that doesn't require rebooting my phone).

(The iPhone/iPad versions haven't been updated all month although maybe their update is still making its way through Cupertino.)

[Sjofn]

  Tim

[Paelos]

Yeah yeah, money ball, sabermetrics, meh.

I don't buy it.

Aren't you an accountant? 

Certainly. But I don't think the old style stats have been revolutionized in a way that can prove anything beyond the idea that more tracking of things = better information.

We're just looking at things closer. I don't necessarily buy the idea that past performance automatically = future results in anything.

[Sjofn]

The Giants are continuing to Giant. I almost feel bad for the A's, usually four runs is plenty if you want to beat the Giants. 

[Paelos]

The Giants are continuing to Giant. I almost feel bad for the A's, usually four runs is plenty if you want to beat the Giants. 

I think you're about to find out who the Giants really are over the next 4 series. You have Florida, Milwaukee, St. Louis, and Colorado all in a row. All 4 teams have winning records.

If the Giants escape that 13 game gauntlet at 7-6 or better, they may run away and hide with the division. Let it be noted right now that I don't believe that will happen.

[HaemishM]

The Cubs continue to be the Cubs. I tried to watch the game last night but holy shit, I gave up at 3-0. Marlon Byrd's out indefinitely with a broken face, their pitching is a shambles when it should have been a strength, their #4 and #5 hitters have banged 3 HR's combined and even adding in their #3 hitter, I don't think those three spots have hit over 10 combined home runs. The team has got a good looking second baseman (Barney) and shortstop (Castro) for the future but they are going to be terrible this year.

[Ingmar]

The Giants are overperforming now, no doubt. They're way, way, way ahead of the curve in winning 1 run games, and that typically won't happen over a whole season to anyone, as one run games are more a matter of luck than skill. 8 games over .500 with our run differential is... probably not sustainable.

On the plus side April/May wins are just as good as September ones. 

[Paelos]

The Byrd injury was horrible to watch. That's what happens when you get into a pissing match that goes horribly wrong.

[Sjofn]

The Giants are continuing to Giant. I almost feel bad for the A's, usually four runs is plenty if you want to beat the Giants. 

I think you're about to find out who the Giants really are over the next 4 series. You have Florida, Milwaukee, St. Louis, and Colorado all in a row. All 4 teams have winning records.

If the Giants escape that 13 game gauntlet at 7-6 or better, they may run away and hide with the division. Let it be noted right now that I don't believe that will happen.

The Rockies have a winning record but they've been sort of iffy this month it seems to me, so I'm not particularly worried about that series, although depending on how the ones before that go, I could be ready to stab myself regardless.

[stu]

I was about to sit down for dinner last night when the Sox - Indians game was delayed. ESPN switched to Yankees - Jays. I was about to turn on Netflix because the YES broadcasts can be painful if you're (a Red Sox fan) not a Yankees fan. Bautista walked into the box so I decided to wait for the outcome because, hey, this guy might hit a homer! Sure enough, he rocked Colon for over 400 ft. That dude is a wrecking crew in himself.

[Paelos]

The Rockies have a winning record but they've been sort of iffy this month it seems to me, so I'm not particularly worried about that series, although depending on how the ones before that go, I could be ready to stab myself regardless.

The Rockies are positioned to go on a home tear if they play their cards right. If they can carry that momentum through the Dodgers series, I'd wager they will overtake SF in the standings.

[Sjofn]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


7-6 loss is a bummer but oh god they killed Buster Posey.

[caladein]

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=15201509

Yeah... that's pretty awful to watch.  He's apparently in for X-rays now, but from the looks of it, his ankle's just gone.

[ghost]

That was fucking brutal.  I kind of agree with Buster's agent. I see no reason why runners are allowed to plow over the catcher like that.  It detracts from an otherwise eloquent game. 

[Trippy]

Yeah and they should ban sliding and pitches being thrown by the opposing team while they are at it. They might also need to ban batting as well.

[ghost]

Yeah and they should ban sliding and pitches being thrown by the opposing team while they are at it. They might also need to ban batting as well.

None of that stuff is even close to similar to runners bowling over the catcher. 

[Azuredream]

Yeah, that replay is especially bad. There's a straight uninterrupted line from the runner to the base and he goes out of his way to hit the catcher who was fumbling with the ball and wouldn't have even been able to make the tag had he just slid in. It's a football play.

[Trippy]

Wrong about sliding:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110411&content_id=17642700&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

As for pitching:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110522&content_id=19433902&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

Edit: better links

[Azuredream]

Batting/pitching are accepted risks, whereas bowling over the catcher/trying to break up a double play are things you could get rid of. I'm not even sure what of value would be lost.

[Paelos]

Don't turn baseball into the NFL, where apparently tackling is going to have to be a consentual activity soon.

[Trippy]

Pete Rose crashing into Ray Fosse to score the winning run in the 1970 All-Star game is one of the most memorable moments in All-Star game history. It also permanently rearranged Fosse's left shoulder.

[Paelos]

Pete Rose crashing into Ray Fosse to score the winning run in the 1970 All-Star game is one of the most memorable moments in All-Star game history. It also permanently rearranged Fosse's left shoulder.

I disagree with that. He came back and won a Gold glove in 1970 after the injury and batted near .300, I think people just liked to blame Rose because he was a dick. It was the myriad of injuries later that ruined Fosse's career.

[Azuredream]

Pete Rose crashing into Ray Fosse to score the winning run in the 1970 All-Star game is one of the most memorable moments in All-Star game history. It also permanently rearranged Fosse's left shoulder.

Maybe this is a generational problem? I was not alive when this happened, but I don't see why that would be memorable at all except as a tragedy. Potential for serious bodily harm really doesn't jack up the sports watching experience for me. I see sports more as games, and not as arenas.

[ghost]

Turning a double play and getting your legs swiped from underneath you is nothing compared to the home plate stuff.  The whole fucking point of the catcher blocking the plate is to knock the shit out of him.  They're not similar.  The intent with the second base plays is to get safe.  At home plate, the guy knows he is fucked so it turns into football.  As for pitching, it is illegal to deliberately throw at a batter. 

[Paelos]

To all that I say, waaaah.

One injury always gets people's panties in a bunch.

[Ingmar]

It looks to me like the guy went out of his way to hit Posey unnecessarily. If the catcher is blocking the path to the plate entirely, that's one thing, but I don't think that was the case here.

EDIT: I should add I really doubt he was trying to hurt Posey intentionally, but rather it is just a young guy struggling at the plate trying to be a hero at the end of a game. Probably thinking along the lines of showing everyone what a gritty competitor he is etc.

[ghost]

To all that I say, waaaah.

One injury always gets people's panties in a bunch.

I've never liked the rule or lack thereof. 

[Trippy]

Pete Rose crashing into Ray Fosse to score the winning run in the 1970 All-Star game is one of the most memorable moments in All-Star game history. It also permanently rearranged Fosse's left shoulder.

I disagree with that. He came back and won a Gold glove in 1970 after the injury and batted near .300, I think people just liked to blame Rose because he was a dick. It was the myriad of injuries later that ruined Fosse's career.

I never said Fosse couldn't play after the injury. However he clearly wasn't the same player afterwards. He hit 16 homers before the All-Star break and only 2 in the 2nd half of the season as the injury forced him to use a less powerful swing.

[ghost]

Fosse never played a full schedule.  The injury occurred in what was really his breakout year, so it's tough to say whether or not it affected his career.  I would assume that it would have had to though.

[Sjofn]

Sorry, it's one thing to collide with a guy when you're legitimately trying to get into the plate safe, but that guy was fucking trying to tackle the catcher. The catcher has no defense in those sorts of plays (I played catcher, goddammit, but at least I am a giantess so most assholes trying that bounced off me), and I really doubt we'd lose much if "no, you can't make a fucking diving tackle into the defenseless catcher" was a rule.

I don't want to turn baseball into football, but the players should probably not try to turn it into football either.

[Paelos]

It looks to me like the guy went out of his way to hit Posey unnecessarily. If the catcher is blocking the path to the plate entirely, that's one thing, but I don't think that was the case here.

EDIT: I should add I really doubt he was trying to hurt Posey intentionally, but rather it is just a young guy struggling at the plate trying to be a hero at the end of a game. Probably thinking along the lines of showing everyone what a gritty competitor he is etc.

I disagree he's going out of his way. He sees the ball get in well ahead of him. He sees Posey attempt to field it (he didn't actually catch it). I can freeze frame it where Posey is literally about to catch the ball and the runner is still 10 feet away from the plate. At this point as a runner you know you're dead. The only option is to hit the guy. Posey turns to tag the runner like he's got the ball, and gets plowed. The problem is that he never had the ball, and his feet were in a bad position. It wasn't dirty, and the runner attempted to go in on him shoulder to shoulder. He wasn't hunting for his head or trying to take out his legs.

It could happen to anybody that was in a close play. The only difference was that Posey is a rookie and caught some bad luck with his feet getting tangled. I played catcher as well, and I've been nailed more than a few times. It's a shame he's injured, but it's not a reason to react to it as something horrid.

[Ingmar]

Bochy was a catcher too, he seems to disagree with you.

But all that aside the slide-on-the-side-sneak-your-hand-onto-the-plate-behind-the-guy thing always seems to work better. I'm not sure how they could write a rule to cover this anyway, but there's not a whole lot of good reason for the runner to smash into the catcher usually. Of course then we're talking headfirst slides, which have their own problems...

[ghost]

It wasn't dirty, and the runner attempted to go in on him shoulder to shoulder. He wasn't hunting for his head or trying to take out his legs.

It could happen to anybody that was in a close play. The only difference was that Posey is a rookie and caught some bad luck with his feet getting tangled. I played catcher as well, and I've been nailed more than a few times. It's a shame he's injured, but it's not a reason to react to it as something horrid.

It wasn't a dirty play at all, however the rule is that if the catcher gets the ball knocked out they are safe, right?  I don't think that is the same for a play at first base, or we'd see batters plowing into the first baseman all the time.  I think it's a rule problem.

[Paelos]

Bochy was a catcher too, he seems to disagree with you.

But all that aside the slide-on-the-side-sneak-your-hand-onto-the-plate-behind-the-guy thing always seems to work better. I'm not sure how they could write a rule to cover this anyway, but there's not a whole lot of good reason for the runner to smash into the catcher usually. Of course then we're talking headfirst slides, which have their own problems...

Bochy's the manager. Let's take that into account? He's absolutely never going to say a dude taking out one of his stars wasn't dirty. Ever.

I've looked at it several times from all angles. He wouldn't have snuck in if Posey has the ball. He's got him. Hell, he's got him by 3 yards. He just didn't make the catch. It irks me that we can get so reactionary based on a bad incident simply because we have the connectivity. Hell, it happened to McCann back in 2008 when the Flying fucking Hawaiian took him out on a collision that cost McCann several games with a concussion. He went for his head. THAT'S dirty. This was just extremely unfortunate leg position.

[caladein]

It wasn't a dirty play at all, however the rule is that if the catcher gets the ball knocked out they are safe, right?  I don't think that is the same for a play at first base, or we'd see batters plowing into the first baseman all the time.  I think it's a rule problem.

The play at first on the batter-runner is a force so the fielder with possession of the ball only needs to make contact with the base before the runner does for the batter-runner to be out.

The runner tagging up at third and going home isn't forced so he could just as easily run back to third and be safe.  This runner needs to be tagged out.  The truck move is so the catcher loses possession of the ball during the application of the tag so it doesn't count.  While the ball flies off, the runner touches home.