Anonymous Mythic employee dishes dirt on WAR and SWTOR

[sam, an eggplant]

They certainly don't think the IP is an golden ticket after SWG. They'd have to be literal retards to believe something definitively proven false.

When has anyone from Bio austin been arrogant, exactly? Who's their Paul Barnett, Mark Jacobs, Brad McQuaid, Abashi, or Richard Garriot?

I like your "(probably)" shit gameplay bit. You know, you seem like a glass half empty kinda guy. Maybe you should start waking up an hour early each morning and jogging around the block? I hear exercise helps with depression.

[UnSub]

And developers know this. Even DCUO has recently looked up, saw the headlights of the oncoming truck, squeaked and jumped away from a November 2010 launch.

That and they were nowhere near ready to launch.

Warner Bros must be getting MxO flashbacks.

[Lantyssa]

At least someone learned.  May not be enough, but they learned.

[Modern Angel]

Their Paul Barnett is Paul Barnett.

[sinij]

I think entire industry deserves to be replaced by Packaged Goods people that can at least produce something, given tried-and-true formula. I don't even expect innovation at this point, just don't repeat the same mistakes year after year after year...

Here are seems to be typical failure modes:

1. Have no plan/vision until late into development, then panic and try to badly clone WoW
2. Have overly-ambitious plan, then end up cutting ENTIRE GAME to meet deadlines/budget constrains
3. Release early and extra-buggy
4. Try to clone WoW from the start, succeed at it to a large degree then fail because people could just play WoW that has more content and polish

[Ghambit]

Let's not forget to add the simple fact that today's MMO public is vastly different from the pre-WoW MMO public.  The masses are no longer uninformed and easily pleased.  This simple fact is largely why WoW-clones (that arent free) fail, along with games that dont innovate.

[Lakov_Sanite]

1. Just because you don't like wow doesn't make it a bad game. It's diku refined to its purest form and needs to be recognized as such, whether you like that model or not.

2. As long as wow is making millions of dollars a month, there will be people making mmo's.  EA might get discouraged from making another but people are always gonna want a slice of that pie.

3. I want swtor to fail because i 'dont' want another diku. I've got wow, I like it but I'm ready for something different. I just want that something different to have the same level of care put into wow. This doesn't mean hundreds of millions in dev costs, just a studio that wants to make a fun, original game.

[Margalis]

immense developer hubris and the budget to match it and (probably) pretty graphics over dull gameplay.

They have a lot of work to do to reach anything approaching pretty.

[Stabs]

I've got wow, I like it but I'm ready for something different. I just want that something different to have the same level of care put into wow.

You know people keep saying this but then don't buy the games that come out.

SWTOR is a brave and innovative game in that it's trying for a story game in a genre where people famously click away quest text. Bioware know this but still feel they can deliver a non-standard MMO experience by making the quest text fantastic.

It might not be where I personally would choose to innovate but it is genuine innovation. They're trying something different and taking quite a risk to do so.

The parts of SWTOR that are like WoW, that they have said are "like WoW", are the afterthought parts - battlgrounds, crafting, parts that they don't really care about because they are focused on making an amazing quest text experience.

Other MMOs that are innovative, not diku and have a great deal of dev care: Eve certainly, Fallen Earth and Darkfall have great craft for the size of the teams making them. I realise that the size of the team is not the end user's problem but sometimes it comes across that people are saying everyone in MMO manufacture is a half-arsed slacker except Blizzard when what they mean is every MMO really needs 200 people in its Live team.

[lamaros]

You know people keep saying this but then don't buy the games that come out.

SWTOR is a brave and innovative game in that it's trying for a story game in a genre where people famously click away quest text. Bioware know this but still feel they can deliver a non-standard MMO experience by making the quest text fantastic.

It might not be where I personally would choose to innovate but it is genuine innovation. They're trying something different and taking quite a risk to do so.

There is nothing innovative by putting a whole lot of C grade plup SF writing in your game, making it all voice acted, and then forcing people to watch it.

If you want to make a movie... make a movie.

[Arthur_Parker]

http://ealouse.wordpress.com/2010/10/14/and-another-things/

EA Louse updated, but it's only reposting his favourite comments by others.  I'm surprised he's not in a bush hiding from a crack EA legal sniper team.

[jakonovski]

Innovation? SWTOR puts voice acting in a blatant WoW-diku clone. That's it.

 

[IainC]

http://ealouse.wordpress.com/2010/10/14/and-another-things/

EA Louse updated, but it's only reposting his favourite comments by others.  I'm surprised he's not in a bush hiding from a crack EA legal sniper team.

There's a joke here about EA ninja-snipers being hamstrung by incompetent management but I can't find it right now.

[Spiff]

It's not innovative in the sense it's been done before ... by Bioware ... in games that were almost universally applauded and loved.
They're crowbarring it into an MMO, which is a first I believe.

Seems to me a lot of people decided straight of the bat that preposition can only lead to failure (not saying there aren't obvious downsides to it, still interested in seeing it in action though).

Most interesting thing about this whole hoopla is the amount of interest there is from both sides at the mention of ToR (fanboys are immediately called out, but doomsayers are equally quick to post), even in a poorly written, self indulgent rant.

I guess that means marketing is doing a good job on that one  

[Arthur_Parker]

I don't know anything about SWTOR but I do know mmo players aren't fond of reading quest descriptions, having to wait and listen while some voice actor slowly reads a quest to me is pretty close to my version of hell.  So the game obviously isn't aimed at me.

[Margalis]

SWTOR is a brave and innovative game in that it's trying for a story game in a genre where people famously click away quest text. Bioware know this but still feel they can deliver a non-standard MMO experience by making the quest text fantastic.

It might not be where I personally would choose to innovate but it is genuine innovation. They're trying something different and taking quite a risk to do so.

The parts of SWTOR that are like WoW, that they have said are "like WoW", are the afterthought parts - battlgrounds, crafting, parts that they don't really care about because they are focused on making an amazing quest text experience.

Is this a serious post? Because I can see it working as dry biting sarcasm. The "afterthought" parts of the game appear to be everything except the voice overs.

The phrase "amazing quest text experience" seems like parody.

[Reg]

Well admittedly SWTOR probably isn't as innovative as FFXIV. But perhaps that's for the best.

[Fordel]

What's this about "Dawn of Camelot" ?, They actually had DaoC 2 in the works?


Not that they wouldn't have fucked THAT up too mind you, but that definitely interests me.

[Arthur_Parker]

http://ordohereticus.wordpress.com/2010/10/13/anonymous/

Short of being shot at, poisoned, stabbed or otherwise given a bad case of death, hiding behind a facade of internet anonymity is for cowards. Could you lose your job? Probably. So get another one. I can guarantee that some place will hire you simply for being forthright, honest and not a pussy when it comes to doing the right thing.

Recently there was a post by an obviously disgruntled employee with an axe to grind. They posted a scathing letter detailing the failure of Warhammer Online and the senior leadership at EA Mythic, specifically Jeff Hickman, Paul Barnett and to a lesser degree through scathing commentary Kate Flack as well. It also went on to say how The Old Republic will suck and how it’s all because of the link between Mythic and Bioware.

The letter was nothing more than a biased rant from someone about to get laid off in November (with a nice severance package I might add). It must be nice to know in advance when you’ll be laid off so you have a chance to start looking for continued work.

For the record I’d like to comment on the characters of Jeff Hickman, Paul Barnett and Kate Flack in rebuttal to this libelous piece of garbage.

1. Kate Flack. She’s not “Paul’s Girlfriend”. That’s not her job title. She may have that as a perk, but she was brought over from Games Workshop and is one of the most brilliant game designers I know (and I know a LOT of them due to working in this industry). She’s not some popsie who slid in to a sweet job, she’s fucking brilliant. She has a firm grasp on what it takes to work on a licensed product and keep licensing managers from pulling the aforesaid license. I’m offended at the insinuations regarding her because she’s actually really cool. EA Mythic is lucky to have her.

2. Paul Barnett. The crazy british guy. Yeah, everyone knows him. His tyrannical display over Warhammer being WAR, Grim and Dark is precisely what Warhammer online is SUPPOSED TO BE. Anyone who says otherwise is a fucking retard who knows fuck all about the IP. Ugly characters? The Empire is full of ugly people with warts, gouged eyes, sliced tongues. It’s an ugly place. Orks and Goblins, plates tacked to their skull. If you weren’t aware of this, how on earth did you ever work on this product? Ok, High Elves are pretty, and Dark Elves are pretty sinister in a sick, morbid twisted way. Everything else should be gnarly. What does Games Workshop want? A WARHAMMER game. They don’t want WOW. Mess with the IP and they’ll pull that license. There is no better loud, crazy, obnoxious front-man to push a product, especially Warhammer than Paul Barnett. That guy inspires people to get hot for a product! Paul is also smart when it comes to dealing with Licensing managers like Paul Lyons whose job is to protect the GW IP from production studios losing vision and muddying the water with crap content that isn’t Warhammer.

3. Jeff Hickman, the bullseye of ire from this putrid rant is made out to be incompetent. Number one, unless you’ve worked on licensed products, you have no idea how hard it is to keep the IP owner happy. Add to this the EA ownership. now you have two masters, both pulling in opposite directions: Warhammer to keep it Warhammer-y, and EA wanting to MAKE MONEY. Is that unreasonable? EA is a publisher. They are there to fund projects that make money and can projects that don’t. Period. In the middle of this shit-storm is Mythic. In order to make Warhammer Age of Reckoning in the first place compromises must be made. The tabletop game doesn’t easily slide in to MMO territory. Classes are made, some adjustments are made to make it be somewhat balanced…and you have (loosely) an MMO.

Here’s the rub.

Warhammer is not for everyone. not everyone will get it. If you aren’t familiar with warhammer, and what it’s about, it looks like a dark, dirty fantasy setting. It is way WAY more than that, and people trying it out from WOW-land will not get it. Folks who pick up WAR on a whim…won’t get it. There is a very hard-core base of Warhammer fans who understand the IP and they won’t be happy with the compromises made to make this playable as an MMO, but given time, most will understand and get on board.

The other half of this equation is to pull in non-warhammer people. To do this, even more compromise was called for. EA wants to make money and Jeff, Paul and Eugene’s boss wanted to shift the game more towards WOW to make it more hip, catchy, mainstream to make it sell better. This just alienates the core of warhammer fans as the game shifts off-center away from the IP.

Jeff Hickman was at the heart of this trying to keep the flavor of Warhammer, and most importantly save jobs. If you don’t know Mr. Hickman, then you don’t know what he puts in to this job. He sacrifices more time, personal fundage, his health all to keep this boat afloat. He’s had to see family members cut from QA in order to save jobs for others. He’s gone to bat for his team more times than can be counted, and every single layoff costs him a piece of his soul. I *KNOW* this man. I know he has done everything in his power, and then some to keep EA Mythic alive, even when people above him didn’t care, or literally were sinking the boat.

Jeff Hickman has been one of my dearest friends since about 1990. I’ve worked for him. He’s one of the best leaders a guy could have. I know for certain that he will fight for his team. He was best man at my wedding.

Some dictates from on high cannot be defeated. Anyone in management knows that it is a tug of war between upper management/ corporate and the people working for you. As a manager you are the voice of the people. Jeff knows this. Issues have been brought up from the development floor to the top. In the end, Jeff is an employee too. Same with Paul. Same with Kate. Same as everyone else. It’s just that more lies on their shoulders and they get to work even longer hours.

I understand the position of EA and corporate decisions to make money. That’s the purpose of being in business in the first place. I do wish things balanced out better, that corporate entities had a softer touch and let the development studios have more control. It’s not that way. nobody can change that. If we don’t like the company we work for, we change companies. Period.

It kills me to see white-collar crybabies bitching about layoffs when people who work far harder, without donut days and comfy chairs get cut every day with no warning and no severance.

Bottom line is that working for Activision, Electronic Arts or any other big company is like eating a giant shit sandwich at times. It sucks. We eat it or we walk.

The passive-aggressive sniping from a wall of anonymity is for pussies. Bitches who have this sense of entitlement. The world owes them! Writing posts like that just stirs up a shitstorm and enrages the mob. The Mob who really knows fuck all about it means to work in a studio like this and what goes in to game development, especially on a licensed product.

Paul’s pet project for UO? Sorry cocksuckers don’t realize Mythic needs every single angle at retaining jobs right now. Little gigs like this are saving jobs. Mythic needs to prove itself again, keep content flowing on several channels else everyone is out of a job. EA will simply close up shop.

This whole tirade by EA Louse has me in stitches at the short-sightedness of it. people have no idea what the current management at EA Mythic has done since launch so safeguard people’s jobs. Just no fucking idea. Instead there is just an anonymous letter to stir up a lunch mob of people who know nothing about what’s going on. The truth…it doesn’t matter. “If it bleeds it leads” right? If you get enough buzz, and cry loud enough, people will believe you. People will believe what they want to believe.

In summary, in counter to the woefully biased, slanted and in some cases inaccurate rants of EA Louse I offer a counter from the other side. Admittedly biased as these three people, Jeff, Paul and Kate are my friends. From THIS side of the wall of anonymity I KNOW how hard they work at keeping EA Mythic alive and breathing, to keep seats filled.

Does that make me a corporate shill? I work in this industry. I understand the purpose of a business is to make money. I understand compromise. I understand that sometimes there is too much oversight, sometimes too little. People make fucked up decisions, and their vision doesn’t jive with others. Doesn’t make it ok, but it happens. Fix it and move on. Do the best you can and making the whole thing work for as many as possible. I can speak with absolute certainty that Jeff Hickman, Paul Barnett and Kate Flack have been and still are top shelf when it comes to putting together a quality product and keeping everyone employed, and that is the best anyone can hope for as an employee.

In the end, corporate management is akin to politics, congress, the senate. You cannot win every battle. All you can hope for is someone to do their very best for you. I know the sacrifices these folks have made and I know how hard they have fought for everyone.

This kind of backstabbery is abhorrent.

I am sorry EA Louse is losing their job. I’ve been laid off several times before. It’s never fun, but it is a part of the life in corporate America we chose.

Sincerely,

Jeff Preston

Art and Design

So much fail, congrats on getting Paul's girlfriend's name out there, clearly nobody mentioning her actual real name was an oversight.  Also Jeff fires family members people, that's how serious this is.

[Murgos]

Jeff should probably have kept his mouth shut.  He certainly didn't help anything.  There is a lot of ammo in there for people to latch onto and blow up while it really doesn't do anything to help.

[Simond]

Someone from the industry, please tell me that somewhere outside of Blizzard there are competent people able and willing to build fun games, and that Blizzard's Mediocrity Principle isn't the only thing to look forward to for the next decade.

Sucks to be you. At least you've got Civ V to tide you over.

[Modern Angel]

Yeah, white collar crybabies. How dare that dude point out that the emperor wears no clothes? How dare he be mad he got laid off because of management's fuckups?

[Arthur_Parker]

Donut days seem to be really important.   A few places are picking up this trainwreck of a reply and saying Jeff Preston is from "EAMythic's Art and Design", he's not, he's this guy.

[Reg]

So another artist type. Why do I care about his opinion about games and game design any more than I do the disgruntled artist type who started this whinefest?

[lamaros]

Donut days seem to be really important.   A few places are picking up this trainwreck of a reply and saying Jeff Preston is from "EAMythic's Art and Design", he's not, he's this guy.

Ouch

[DraconianOne]

Donut days seem to be really important.   A few places are picking up this trainwreck of a reply and saying Jeff Preston is from "EAMythic's Art and Design", he's not, he's this guy.

Um, what?

[Arthur_Parker]

So another artist type. Why do I care about his opinion about games and game design any more than I do the disgruntled artist type who started this whinefest?

I'm not saying you should, if you have ever been a best man it's a pretty big favour to do for someone.  The guy trying to help and actually committing a friendly fire incident is someone Jeff Hickman was best man for (apparently).  There's dancing involved in this link.

[Mrbloodworth]

Donut days seem to be really important.   

Its the only sustenance artists get in the stable.

[IainC]

There's dancing involved in this link.

Hah! I was there for that, I'm just off the stage below. Funny fact, when the GC judges gave WAR best in show for 2008, the trophy said 'Warhammer: Age of Reckoning by GOA'. Because the stand had been booked in our name, the organisers assumed that we were the developers.

[Khaldun]

The horrible thing about that reply is that it just straight up skirts around the fact that Warhammer Online is a royally pooch-screwed product. Who the fuck cares about whether it's loyal to the IP or not if the game itself is a disaster? Red herrings galore.

On the other hand, one thing that's now clear to me is that almost diku-inflected designs are going to fail even if Jesus, Mary and Joseph are the lead designers, and every day is donut day. A diku-style MMOG cannot outdo World of Warcraft, and no minor variations on diku will make it different enough to escape the comparison. There are only two meaningful alternative design paths: a very "world-like" sandbox MMOG, or Planetside/WW2 Online done right. If you aren't going there, you can't succeed, and it really doesn't matter whether the devs involved are crack-snorting, whore-fucking monsters or angelic, kindly geniuses.

[schild]

The list of people never to employ in the gaming industry is a long one, only getting longer.

Jeff was stupid to post that.

[Arthur_Parker]

https://ealouse.wordpress.com/  Careful they might NSFW it.

ROFLMAO Easy hack! Password was only 3 letters long!

Lets play guess the new password! 8 letters long and all number! user name is ealouse

This epic troll brought to u by 4chan

Below was the 3rd and final post before the "hack", if hack it was, I'll spoiler as it's long.


Edit to add, site back as it was, ealouse account seems to have been deleted, reads anonymous now, not sure what happened, maybe wordpress restored it.

[DraconianOne]

When do we get an "F13Louse" exposing the sordid truth behind the F13 Server drive?

[Nebu]

Jeff was stupid to post that.

This. 

I also stand corrected on my earlier assertion that this was an outsider looking in.  I was wrong there.  Apparently there are still people that enjoy dousing bridges with gasoline and setting them ablaze.

[jakonovski]

As a Warhammer player (FB, 40k, FRP) for over 20 years, I am fairly confident that WAR failed to capture the soul of the setting. A big part of it was Chinese outsourced generic art. Which is completely understandable, for them it was just another random western fantasy world.