Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 01:37:19 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.  (Read 92750 times)
Malakili
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10596


Reply #35 on: September 30, 2010, 10:49:57 AM



I avoided games with draconian DRM, I will continue to do so in this case. Industry can DIAF, they are not going to get a penny out of my rather substantial entertainment spending until they can provide hassle-free experience for me.


Just save yourself the trouble and pick up a new hobby then, because Steam is on the GOOD end of where PC gaming is going.
sinij
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2597


WWW
Reply #36 on: September 30, 2010, 10:52:15 AM

You're seriously at least 2 years out of datebuying with how fucked PC gamers were getting.

I skipped all these games despite having interest in playing them, so I wouldn't know if it was rape-your-soul bad or kick-your-dog bad... Your justification of "well its not as bad as Holocaust" does not work for me, it is still bad enough by my standards , that I wouldn't knowingly participate in it.  I wrote 2K support asking for a refund, with full intention of returning the game. We will see what comes out of that.

I did read the box before opening. It said in a very small print: "Internet connection and acceptance of Steam Subscriber Agreement required for activation. Access to special features my require internet connection.... Apparently ability to play Civ5 is considered "special feature".

« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 11:01:31 AM by sinij »

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
tgr
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3366

Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #37 on: September 30, 2010, 11:04:40 AM

Apparently ability to play Civ5 is considered "special feature".
Oh no, you did not just ignore everything we just said. Ohhhhh, I see.

Start game, shut down game, set steam into offline mode, play without internet until your balls fall off. How is that a problem?

If you really are going to take the stance where you're going to avoid any and all games which require activations in any way, shape or form, then like Malakili said, find yourself a new hobby now. Steam is seriously on the better end of where PC gaming is heading. It had seriously gone from "meh, I need the disc in the drive to start, but it's :effort: to find it" to "oh dear, the internet connection between me and the publisher had a fit and now I have to restart this level". It's beyond rape-your-soul bad.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
kildorn
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5014


Reply #38 on: September 30, 2010, 11:16:59 AM

You're seriously at least 2 years out of datebuying with how fucked PC gamers were getting.

I skipped all these games despite having interest in playing them, so I wouldn't know if it was rape-your-soul bad or kick-your-dog bad... Your justification of "well its not as bad as Holocaust" does not work for me, it is still bad enough by my standards , that I wouldn't knowingly participate in it.  I wrote 2K support asking for a refund, with full intention of returning the game. We will see what comes out of that.

I did read the box before opening. It said in a very small print: "Internet connection and acceptance of Steam Subscriber Agreement required for activation. Access to special features my require internet connection.... Apparently ability to play Civ5 is considered "special feature".



... the fine print is perfectly accurate. Steam is required for activation. In order to play a steam activated game, steam's process MUST BE RUNNING.

This is akin to complaining that not only do you need windows for the INSTALLER to run, but the actual PROGRAM, too!

Seriously, flip steam to offline, play Civ 5, and continue to be in that odd minority on the internet who thinks steam (and steamworks, which is what Civ is using) are a terrible thing. This isn't akin to saying it's not the holocaust level of bad, this is akin to saying it's not bad, it's the freaking salvation of PC gaming. And if you want to opt out, all you need to do is start the game once, flag offline mode, and then live happily ever after.


On a game related note: turn 7 last night, I had 4 brutes and a trireme chilling out in my home city's turf. Seriously, someone set my barbarians to Crazy. By turn 100 or so my small island had spawned a new barb camp every ~2 turns.l
Daeven
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1210


Reply #39 on: September 30, 2010, 11:39:52 AM

I am not interested in changing my ways and not interested in giving Steam another chance. They destroyed my CS and this is very much unforgivable sin in my book.
Oh. My bad. I thought you were looking for help. The Department For Free Horse-Buggy whips is thee doors down. Have a nice day.

P.S. There is a lovely full color manual. In .pdf. You have to use THE EVIL to download it. It might even be present on your oddly retrograde physical medium with the crappy low-bandwidth 'car' bitrate. I'm not certain though.

"There is a technical term for someone who confuses the opinions of a character in a book with those of the author. That term is idiot." -SMStirling

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion
Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117

I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #40 on: September 30, 2010, 11:57:30 AM

NiX
Wiki Admin
Posts: 7770

Locomotive Pandamonium


Reply #41 on: September 30, 2010, 12:10:05 PM

Why is Sky the voice of reason?

I'm tempted to split this and den the Steam stupidity.
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #42 on: September 30, 2010, 12:11:53 PM

I think this thread is starting to circle the drain.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Segoris
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2637


Reply #43 on: September 30, 2010, 12:58:33 PM

So does the direct2drive version, or any other version available another digital download service that may have it, require Steam as well? If not, I'm curious as to how they handle the updates since they don't use a client like Steam. If so, damn that Gabe is a sly mofo to have competitor's require his product for items they sell.
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #44 on: September 30, 2010, 01:00:43 PM

So does the direct2drive version, or any other version available another digital download service that may have it, require Steam as well? If not, I'm curious as to how they handle the updates since they don't use a client like Steam. If so, damn that Gabe is a sly mofo to have competitor's require his product for items they sell.

Doesn't matter how you get it, they all use Steamworks.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Segoris
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2637


Reply #45 on: September 30, 2010, 01:04:16 PM

I just looked it up and yeah, I'm seeing that now. That is a smooth move by Steam, and it's just now hitting me how big of an importance that is where as before I didn't think much of it as I've taken Steam for granted lately. Especially since I, for one, welcomed our Steam overlords a while ago.
Lantyssa
Terracotta Army
Posts: 20848


Reply #46 on: September 30, 2010, 01:06:59 PM

I think this thread is starting to circle the drain.
Heart

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
tgr
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3366

Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #47 on: September 30, 2010, 01:13:27 PM

Other Requirements: Initial installation requires one-time Internet connection for Steam authentication; software installations required (included with the game) include Steam Client, Microsoft Visual C++2008 Runtime Libraries and Microsoft DirectX.

D2D is just the delivery vehicle, whereas steam is the primary content delivery platform, then, which Civ5 has been tightly integrated. I guess this is a nice indication that the other networks might be a tad too late in fleshing out their functionality, and that steam might soon be the de-facto platform for all PC games.

I'm not sure if I should be slightly worried about the potential monopoly we might be getting here, or happy if it means less of the mindfuckery that is Ubisoft/EA's "solutions". I'm currently kind of rooting for steam since the alternative will entail "get another hobby".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
sinij
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2597


WWW
Reply #48 on: September 30, 2010, 01:30:43 PM

I still don't see my reaction of "buy DVD, play the game" as unreasonable. I might be older than target demographic of most of the games these days (but probably not Civ franchise), but is always-connected, Facebook-updating in-your-face intrusive DRM what current over-shearer generation expects and thinks is the new norm?  I really fail to see where/how money is gained with this, it certainly doesn't stop piracy... so why bother?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 01:35:22 PM by sinij »

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
tgr
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3366

Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #49 on: September 30, 2010, 01:35:21 PM

Tell me how steam is "always-connected", "facebook-updating", and "in-your-face intrusive".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Reg
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5270


Reply #50 on: September 30, 2010, 01:37:33 PM

Jesus, it's like he completely ignored the half dozen posts where helpful people explained in excruciating detail how to run it offline.
sinij
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2597


WWW
Reply #51 on: September 30, 2010, 01:38:56 PM

Facebook-updating was reference to Bnet2; always-connected is just how steam works, while as was explained to me it is possible to block it and use it in offline mode, default mode of operation is login and connect.

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
sinij
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2597


WWW
Reply #52 on: September 30, 2010, 01:40:28 PM

Jesus, it's like he completely ignored the half dozen posts where helpful people explained in excruciating detail how to run it offline.

I carefully read them, appreciated advice and understood it.

You are confusing "not willing to put up with it" with "not understanding how it works". Different people have different standards, someone out there will tolerate getting anal probed as part of DRM scheme. You might think my expectations of "single player games need to stay offline" as unreasonable, but nonetheless I am entitled to act on them as you are entitled to enjoy your anal probing.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 01:44:34 PM by sinij »

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
Reg
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5270


Reply #53 on: September 30, 2010, 01:42:41 PM

Well then, as has already been suggested it's time for a new hobby. Because running on Steam is by far the least objectionable modern DRM scheme.
shiznitz
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4268

the plural of mangina


Reply #54 on: September 30, 2010, 01:43:05 PM

Jesus, it's like he completely ignored the half dozen posts where helpful people explained in excruciating detail how to run it offline.

None of that allows one to even start the game if one's internet is down, which does happen more than occasionally.

I have never played WoW.
slog
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8232


Reply #55 on: September 30, 2010, 01:43:47 PM

Moral of the story:  A DVD is the box is truly just another way to download the game.  In the PC game world, all roads will soon lead to centralized authentication.  


Friends don't let Friends vote for Boomers
proudft
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1228


Reply #56 on: September 30, 2010, 01:44:13 PM

You like patches, don't you?  Would you rather periodically check the Firaxis site to see if a patch has been released, run the game to check the start screen to figure out if you already have it, download the zip or installer, install it, and waste 5d4 minutes of your life with all this - or have Steam silently do it in the background while you are doing something useful?

This is the kind of intrusiveness that Steam is bringing you.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Edit:
None of that allows one to even start the game if one's internet is down, which does happen more than occasionally.

wat?   I run Steam games on a laptop unconnected to the internet all the damn time.  It pops up a little window saying HEY YOU'RE NOT ONLINE and you say I KNOW, RITE? and on you go.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 01:46:07 PM by proudft »
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #57 on: September 30, 2010, 01:46:30 PM

Way to go Sinij, your brand of obstinate trolling got you your own special unintentional thread.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
sinij
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2597


WWW
Reply #58 on: September 30, 2010, 01:47:25 PM

I would rather Big Brother stay the fuck out of my gaming, regardless of form, reason or origin.

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
sinij
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2597


WWW
Reply #59 on: September 30, 2010, 01:48:31 PM

Way to go Sinij, your brand of obstinate trolling got you your own special unintentional thread.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I could always start a new thread if trolling was my intention, we aren't running out of new thread materials around these parts, are we?

This community was always too conformist, if you aren't anti-PK, pro-Furry, pro-Steam, pro-Whatever you are called troll.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 02:00:01 PM by sinij »

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
tgr
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3366

Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #60 on: September 30, 2010, 01:49:24 PM

I couldn't care less about bnet2, since I didn't buy starcraft2 because I didn't like the terms, but how can you really sit there and say, with a straight face, that because something by default is setup to actually talk to the steam servers (which is what 99.999% of the users will probably want it to do in the first place), it's "always-on"?

Ubisoft's DRM is always-on. EA's DRM is always-on. They can't be shut off, in any way, shape or form (except if you switch off the game, which ... doesn't really count).

None of that allows one to even start the game if one's internet is down, which does happen more than occasionally.
It'll be a problem the first time. It's bitten me all of ... well, once, in 6 years. For 4 hours I think. I can live with that compared to having to start your level over because ubisoft's servers had a hickup.

The alternative is to wait 11-12 years and watch it pop up DRM-free on GOG.com. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
sinij
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2597


WWW
Reply #61 on: September 30, 2010, 01:53:41 PM

The alternative is encrypted-key USB dongles. A lot of professional software uses it these days, why not games?

I couldn't care less about bnet2, since I didn't buy starcraft2 because I didn't like the terms

With this said, on what grounds are you trying to give me hard time over doing exactly the same thing with Steam?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 01:56:04 PM by sinij »

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
Goreschach
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1546


Reply #62 on: September 30, 2010, 01:58:40 PM

The alternative is encrypted-key USB dongles. A lot of professional software uses it these days, why not games?

You think steam is too much of a hassle, so you want a dongle for every game you own?


That's really fucking stupid.
sinij
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2597


WWW
Reply #63 on: September 30, 2010, 02:02:54 PM

I want DRM-free games, dongle is just an alternative.

Yes, I find dongle less intrusive, simply because it is contained system with limited scope. Dongle won't attempt to install advertising in your old games, it won't add/remove features from your product without asking you, it won't try to track your use/other activities and sell it to advertisers/google.

Lets say in 2015 Steam decides to show Coke adds with every loading screen, and make sure you need to load something every 15 minutes for at least 30 seconds. There isn't a thing you can do about it when you try to play Civ5, even if when you originally purchased it in 2010 it didn't have any adds simply because you clicked "accept" to 'we can do whatever the fuck we want' TOS 5 years ago.

...

or they simply can go out of business and/or get purchased by EA/UBI and retroactively change how things work.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 02:09:41 PM by sinij »

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #64 on: September 30, 2010, 02:09:16 PM

Tell you you what, they attach a dongle to your game, and then they attach that to an account, which is online to your email address and a credit card.

And then you have Steam, except it's on a dongle you have to find every time you load a game.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
sinij
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2597


WWW
Reply #65 on: September 30, 2010, 02:11:31 PM

I don't think I am communicating this clearly...

When Steam get purchased by EA or UBI all your Steam games will retroactively get Assassin's Creed 2-style DRM patched into them and/or adds and/or turned into distributed computing bot and/or whatever else they want to do with you. You won't walk away from your entire collection of games, including your single-player games, so they have you by the balls.

Ether way, I am done arguing this since it all falling on deaf ears.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 02:14:47 PM by sinij »

Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end.
naum
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4262


WWW
Reply #66 on: September 30, 2010, 02:14:46 PM

Even bypassing Steam, and buying game disc, still you are not the "owner" of the game software, you still have simply just purchased and procured a license to run said game software on your machine.

While I like Steam and believe it's enactment of DRM to be quite painless and beneficial, I do see, however, the angst in purchasing a disc that just serves as a conduit to Steam.

But that's the deal Civ 5 makers made.

Personally, as much as I enjoy the Civ series, holding out not because of Steam, but because of heavy work and school load AND also because, as I've found with the last couple Civ {$n} iterations, it didn't become a polished game until at least six months or more have eclipsed, and the game is patched into that state.

So you all keep hammering away at it and Firaxis (or whoever dev house is now) will remedy the initial release bugs and ills.

"Should the batman kill Joker because it would save more lives?" is a fundamentally different question from "should the batman have a bunch of machineguns that go BATBATBATBATBAT because its totally cool?". ~Goumindong
Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075

Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #67 on: September 30, 2010, 02:24:40 PM

Ether way, I am done arguing this since it all falling on deaf ears.

Yes, clearly we aren't listening.  Ohhhhh, I see.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 02:30:14 PM by Paelos »

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240


Reply #68 on: September 30, 2010, 02:28:35 PM


Ether way, I am done arguing this since it all falling on deaf ears.


This does not mean what you think it means.  You just want us to tell you that you're right or, at the very least, to agree with you.

We kinda can't because you're wrong.  It's that simple.

And this comes from the BIGGEST hater of Steam who came to the Steam party so late it was almost last week.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
tgr
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3366

Just another victim of cyber age discrimination.


Reply #69 on: September 30, 2010, 02:29:29 PM

The alternative is encrypted-key USB dongles. A lot of professional software uses it these days, why not games?

Oh god, yes, that's a nice solution. That's not a hassle at all. Let's have a chat when you have a few hundred games, each with its own dongle.

I couldn't care less about bnet2, since I didn't buy starcraft2 because I didn't like the terms

With this said, on what grounds are you trying to give me hard time over doing exactly the same thing with Steam?
Oh, you thought it was just the "you must connect to a central server to start a game" bit? I'm sorry if I didn't specify what bothered me the most about CS2. I'm not entirely happy about the fact that even though you can "play as guest" after you've authenticated your copy, each authentication only lasts for 30 days and you have to reauthenticate yourself (which is worse than Steam where you auth once and can play forever, without updates. vOv). It's blizzard though, and they're trying to make SC2 into the same competition game SC1 is, and as such they're very likely to keep supporting it for a long long time. So I'm not as bothered by that as I am about

1) Lack of proper LAN support for normal people
2) Regional limitations

But you go ahead and assume away, it seems to be working fine.

I don't think I am communicating this clearly...

When Steam get purchased by EA or UBI all your Steam games will retroactively get Assassin's Creed 2-style DRM patched into them.
Oh. So now it's suddenly a doomsday scenario. That sounds unlikely simply because that would probably single-handedly

1) kill a large chunk of the PC market through anger, which is already weakened.
2) kill whoever bought steam and implemented that retroactively, because I'm pretty sure they would be sued to fuck and back.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Civ 5 requires Steam? or Gabe Newell touched me riiight... there.  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC